========================================== Rare Fruit News Online - All Year for 1996 ========================================== Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:08:16 +0000 Subject: Rare Fruit News #1 12 Oct 96 Fellow Growers: I received this from Oliver Patterson. I'll show my response to it later, but thought you'd be interested in the letter. ========= From Oliver Patterson Hi Leo, How's the construction of your Web page going? Have you solved the copyright restrictions problem you were having? I notice that you still don't have any graphics on your page. Last weekend my wife and I visited the residence of the most "famous" cooperative extension service specialist in West Palm Beach. He has 2 1/2 acres filled with tropical trees/plants, and there is a path that winds its way through it all. Everything is labelled. He gave us a tour of the place, and, though it went too fast, it was great. Some of the things I remember seeing are: black sapote, mamey sapote, sapodilla, plantains, carambola, breadfruit, sausage-tree, papaya (20 feet tall!), and many types of citrus trees. I think he said that he had 2000 different species growing, and I don't doubt it. It was like being in a Costa Rican rain forest. When we left, we went to a nearby park and walked around. I noticed a very large carambola tree growing (apparently the result of someone's dropped fruit), and it had fruits on it. I threw a stick to knock some down and one fell. It was the best-tasting carambola I have ever eaten! Also in the park were huge fig trees, which may have been banyan figs, tamarind trees, mango trees, and various unidentified tropical trees. Could you answer a few questions for me (when you have time, that is)? 1) Out of the fruits you grow ("Mango, Banana, Cherimoa, Pitanga, Guava, Rose Apple, Atemoa, Guava, Capulin Cherry, Longan, Pitanga, Cherry-of-the-Rio-Grande, Passion Fruit, White Sapote, Black Sapote, Kiwi, Citrus, and a few others"), which produces fruit most abundantly? 2) On an average year, approximately how many fruits do you get from your lychee tree? 3) How do you rate the fruit of the rose apple? 4) Does your passion fruit vine lose its leaves in the winter? 5) Does your macadamia nut tree bear fruit? 6) Which is the best-tasting of the sapotes--white, black, or green? 7) Does the black sapote taste like a Japanese persimmon? 8) Would you consider the white sapote to be a hardy tree (supposedly it can survive temps. down to 24F)? Sincerely, Oliver ======================================= Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 16:08:40 +0000 Subject: Rare Fruit News #2 29 Oct 96 From: (MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN) Dear Leo, It would be nice to have a forum for rare fruit but it (responding to a question about using a newsgroup in the alt.* category) may attract people who aren't interested in the types we're talking about! I live in West Central Florida, about 6 miles inland from Tampa Bay in a community called Sundance. I garden on about 2 1/2 acres. I grow a large variety of subtropical fruits, and a few temperate ones. I have many varieties of citrus and bananas, and a few different mulberries, grapes(muscadines), persimmons and guavas. Most everything else I have is represented by 1 or 2 varieties. This includes about 140 different varieties of edibles (not counting veggies like tomatoes and lettuce) which are too numerous to list here. I have been gardening seriously since I was about 13 (26 years ago) and have been growing subtropical fruits for about 14 years. I am extremely interested in growing things organically and healthfully and having good soil. I mulch heavily, even citrus. My growing interests are not limited to fruits but extend to perennial vegetables. I am interested in finding varieties that can take the cold we occasionally get here in FL. DIANE ------------------------------------------------------------------ The following is from Daleys Fruit Tree Nursery in Australia ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dear Leo & Betty, I stumbled across your page requesting interested people in communicating on rare fruits. I would love to be involved in such a group. Let me introduce myself. I operate a subtropical fruit and nut nursery in Australia propagating quite an extensive range of traditional and unusual fruits. We are situated in Northern NSW and have been propagating and growing fruit and nuts for the last 16 years and still am very interested in anything new. Hope to keep in touch Greg Daley -------------------------------------------------------------- [Greg, we'd all probably like to know what kind of fruit trees you propagate that can be exported to California and Florida. Leo] =========================================== Date Fri Dec 6 08:37:57 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #3 31 Oct 96 Scott Marshall wrote: Please keep the info coming. Thanks, Scott Marshall -------------------------------- Scott, I've sent everything that I've received in recent months. If more growers on our short mailing list would send information about what they are growing, or are interested in growing, or whatever, we'd could learn a lot. -- ======================================= Date: Fri Dec 6 08:37:58 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #4 11 Nov 96 Response to Passion fruit enthusiast From: "Scott Daniels" Hi Mike, Glad to hear of a new tropical fruit enthusiast. Hear are some basic rules for Passionfruit: 1) Mulch. When you plant them out, preferrably when they are at least a few feet tall, mulch them heavily, and water every other day for a week or two tapering off to twice a week. Once established they don't need water very often. 2) Go easy on the fertilizer. You shouldn't need to fertilize them hardly at all. I suspect your problems with the soil are due to water related stress. Hence, mulch them a lot. After you plant them out, you can scatter any fertilizer (6-6-6) will do, and that should do it. This practice works well for me here in Fla, and we only have sand in which to plant. 3) Protect from catepillars. In Fla, we have Gulf Fritilary catepillars which feed on Passionflower. If you have catepillar problems, you may have to resort to using Sevin dust untl the vines are bigger, and they will destroy small vines. Don't do anything however unless about half of the leaves have been eaten. If you planted seeds from purple fruit, you should get fragrant blossoms in after one year, and followed by fruit. Happy growing, Scott Daniels, Fla. ===================== [Leo's Note] I have found that passaflora grow with minimum attention in San Diego. The catepillar problem only seems to exist with a few varieties. When plants get started and are growing strongly, they seem to tolerate the catepillars. Some won't bear without cross-pollination, while some are self-pollinating. The Frederick here bears heavily with no other passiflora near, while the p.alata and p. vitafolia seem to require cross pollinating. It may depend on where you live? Also, most passiflora blossoms that I have do not have a significant fragrance. Then maybe it depends on where they are growing, or whether my nose is "fragrance-blind"... -- ============================== Date: Fri Dec 6 08:37:59 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #5 03 Dec 96 From Ray in Louisville: I just found you on the net. I am currently growing banana plants, fig, date, passion fruit vines, and a few citrus trees indoors until spring comes once again. Do you know of any info out there about bananas. I have Lessard's complete book of bananas but I hunger for further knowledge? I live in louisville,Kentucky.thanks,I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Ray Gerlach ------------------------ Hi Ray, There's a challenge! It would really take dedication to move banana plants citrus and fig trees indoors every winter. My only comment would be to keep a light soil mix and dwarf trees. -- ======================================= Date: Fri Dec 6 08:37:59 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #6 03 Dec 96 I'd like to see everyone share information about what he or she is interested in growing. Here is a part of my list. Many of my sub-tropical fruit are seedlings, so it is unlikely you will have the same exact seedling fruit trees where you are, but perhaps you will look around for select seedlings as well as named varieties. Maybe you will want to look to seed sources to grow your own, as often the seed is from varieties carefully chosen and recommended. Mangoes are on my mind. Now (early December, 1996) the season is almost over. there were probably 175 fruit, mostly on seedlings I began growing several years ago. They were in 5 gallon pots when planted in 1992. There were originally 12 seedlings planted, and 3 were removed because the fruit quality was either inferior or not outstanding. I have referred to them as Seedling #1, #2, #3, #4... #12. Eight of them are good to very good. (I don't know about you, but I'm sure everything I grow is better than it really is!) My ego is blind to flaws that you might spot right away. Last year I began hauling coffee grounds from Starbuck's coffee houses into my yard. It is a good mulch and a mild fertilizer. It may have stimulated my mango trees into production this year, (at least six of them had never had fruit.) but the weather was extremely helpful, with mild winters for several years. I have hauled over a ton of coffee grounds, making almost daily rounds to two Starbucks. At least two of the mango trees with quite good fruit are polyembronic. This means that there are multiple seedlings for each seed planted, and some (all?) of them come true-exact replicas of the parent. Other than the seedlings, there are also named varieties: Carrie, 20222=Winters, Edwards, Glenn, Valencia Pride, Keitt, Kent, and five locally promoted varieties: Mission, Oro, Thomson, Aloha, and Grandioso. One very noticeable difference between seedlings and grafted varieties is the vigor of the trees. Seedlings have it, grafted ones lag 'way behind, at least in my limited experience. Never before did I have all of the mangoes I could eat, and since they are my favorite fruit, you can imagine how happy I was from early October into early December. I planted over one hundred seeds over recently installed bottom heat. Many of the seeds are planted in milk cartons, one-half gallon waxed cardboard, with two cartons stacked for each seed. (Cut the bottom out of the top one, of course.) They fit nicely in milk crates, one dozen per crate. I have bought several bags of planting mix from Home Depot. There are at least one-third that have sprouted. In early December, 1996, some trees are about to bloom: Glenn, Kent, and Edwards. It may be significant that these three had almost no fruit this past year. I began this communication, expecting to discuss more fruit than mangoes, but I think I'll wait to get to the other fruit. ======================================= Date: Fri Dec 6 08:38:02 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #7 04 Dec 96 Oliver Patterson wrote: Leo, how many years, on average, does it take for a seedling mango tree to produce fruit? What was the absolute shortest time? Putting aside your bias :-), how would you compare the fruit that you have gotten from your seedling mangoes with the fruit that one would find in a supermarket? ============== Oliver, I can't tell you because I lost the records of the dates that my seeds were planted. I can tell you that my own trees were at least 6 years of age before bearing, but that they could undoubtedly been productive sooner if I had made that a higher priority. When I planted the seeds, I believed that it was unlikely that mango seedlings would produce quality fruit, unless they were polyembryonic. I was expecting to graft all of them, and my nurturing system was not great. Sometimes the watering system would fail. I kept many of them in small pots until they were rootbound. I didn't use bottom heat, and many seeds didn't sprout, since it was colder where I was living there in the winter. I believe that trees could begin to produce at 3 years of age, at earliest, but that it is a mistake to allow trees to bear too young. They never develop a satisfactory branch system. It is especially important to not permit fruit on the dominant vertical branch on the tree until it is strong enough to hold fruit. Many fruit are heavy - one of my seedlings had fruit as heavy as 4.5 pounds. You can get fruit faster by buying grafted trees, which grow more slowly, or by buying seedlings from someone who has begun growing them a few years earlier. I'd undoubtedly want to get fruit as quickly as possible, if I didn't have any trees, but I'd recommend that you get seedlings started as quickly as possible, for future satisfaction. You probably know that it is usually better to remove mango kernels from the seed case. If you notice, these kernels have a shape that is similar to a butter bean. There are two "flat" sides that meet with a convex spine and a concave part opposite it. It is recommended that you plant the kernel with the convex part up and the concave part down. If the kernel has begun to sprout, you may need to orient it so that the rootlet is aimed downwards. I usually have the upper convex part at about "soil" level. (I use a planter mix to start the seedlings.) If the kernels are gray or similarly discolored, they may not produce good seedlings. The fruit probably was kept at a temperature that was too cold. You can plant them, anyway, but if the seedlings don't grow relatively vigorously, I'd consider discarding them. (That's hard to do, but if space is a consideration, may be necessary.) It isn't hard to find yard grown mangoes that are superior to some of those sold in the supermarket, for a number of reasons. Those in the markets have sometimes been picked too early to ever develop the best flavor. I just yesterday ate some that were advertised as Haden (they weren't) that were rather fibrous and with a poor flavor. They would have had too much fiber, but would have tasted much better if they had not been picked too soon. I have five seedlings with fruit that I believe you would agree are very good. Two or three are especially good. It's interesting that there can be so much variation in fruit on one tree. Early in the season, one tree had fruit I considered superior, but later in the season another seemed even better. I shared fruit with a dozen or so other people who seemed to agree with my evaluations. By the way, the tree with very large fruit weighing four pounds will probably be grafted over. One of its smaller fruits was excellent, but the larger ones don't ripen evenly. One part will be hard while another part is over ripe. I'll wait another year, since this was its first productive year.... Another point. Just because a tree is polyembryonic - coming true to its parent - doesn't mean it will have a satisfactory root system. It may be that you will want to graft that variety onto one that develops a better-developed root system. That seems to be true with variety 20222 renamed Winters, for example. ======================================= Date: Fri Dec 6 08:37:53 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #8 05 Dec 96 =================== From: Oliver Patterson Thanks for the information, Leo. The convential belief is that seedlings will almost never produce good fruit. It was great to hear that you challenged that belief and proved it to be false. As long as space permits, mango seeds should always be planted. It costs nothing, and there is a good chance that the fruit from it will be of good quality. In addition, you never know when you'll get something really special! - Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ===================== From: Tim Thompson Found your query. I grow many mango varieties in Southern California and am interested in new varieties. I presently have about 70 varieties from around the world and am developing new varieties tailored for this area. My wife and I live in Camarillo, between LA and Santa Barbara. We are located in the North central part of town. We experience some frost with two nights last spring having 28 degree F lows for short duration. Very little damage noted to our mangos even though most were in bloom durring the February frost. Significant damage to our Cavendish Banana was noted though. We are not familiar with the mango variety you mentioned, Villa Senior. Where does it originate? [Leo: Villa Senor came from Mexico and the variety is available locally. I haven't taken time to track it down.] We have resources for most parts of the world to pick up worth while varieties, perhaps we can help. I would enjoy sharing info. Tim Thompson ========================== Date: Sat Dec 7 19:26:16 1996 Subject: Rare Fruit News #9 From: Scott Marshall Have you tried to grow any Cherimoya seedlings, I'm thinking of doing some myself. Any information would be helpful. Thanks, Scott Marshall ========================= Scott, I have often planted cherimoa seeds and found the plants easy to grow. Several years ago I had an African Pride Atemoa (which is a cherimoa cross with another annona). I hand pollinated the blossoms with pollen from itself as well as from cherimoa trees I had growing. The seeds from those fruit which came as a result of those crosses produced several seedlings and I brought them with me when I moved here, over four years ago. The young seedlings had been in five-gallon pots, about 3-4 feet tall, when planted. They began to bear in a year, and some of them have produced excellent fruit. Probably half of them were discarded, for various reasons. (They were planted too closely to leave all of them, and if any tree took too long to bear, it was removed. Some of the fruit was only so-so, certainly not as good as those permitted to stay.) The taste of all four of them is great, but different from each other. One of the trees has large fruit, smooth skin, ripens late, and has relatively few seeds. Having fewer seeds helps if you try to process the fruit. (I like the flesh mixed with yogurt and used as a salad dressing of a fruit salad. Also, I've made frozen yogurt with cherimoa - so long ago I've forgotten the recipe - that was very good.) Another is early, significant protrusions on the skin. Another has fruit that looks exactly like the fruit of the atemoa with its unique protrusions. The fourth has fewer and shorter protrusions-rather smooth except for very short peaks. So, I'd say the seedlings are very easy to grow, and the chances of getting good fruit are pretty good, especially if both parents are chosen well. Also, cherimoa is relatively easy to graft, so you can use the seedlings as rootstock, if you prefer. Leo ==================== Date: Mon, 09 Dec 1996 09:47:10 +0000 Subject: Rare Fruit News #11 09 Dec 96 Greg shares his experiences with growing cherimoya seedlings in Australia, and welcome to Patty from Florida, who is growing rare fruit. (I guess I'll try to remember to go along with the majority in the spelling, cherimoya, rather than cherimoa.) ====================================== Scott Hi As a fruit tree propagator I can give some tips from growing cherimoya from Australia. We collect our seed in Autumn and store them dry in the cool room (enclosed in plastic bag) over winter and plant the seed in early spring. My experience with cherimoya seedlings is that they can be germinated immediately but tend to be very susceptible to fungal attack over winter. Spring planting when the temperature is warming up seemed to be most successfull. One year latter seedlings are then ideal to graft. Spring is also the only time to successfully graft Cherimoyas. Has anyone out there had experience with growing Poshte(Annona scleroderma)? A friend from North Qld describes them as. The texture of the pulp is perfect, the flavour aromatic and delicous with a sour/sweetish taste. I live further south in northern NSW and have not been successfull as yet in getting them to grow. We seem to have no trouble growing them in the nursery but we have difficulty getting them to survive in the ground. Regards Greg Daley ============= From: Patty C Hi, Saw your web site. I'm starting to raise rare fruit here in Central Florida - a grove of longans and litchees. Also, one of each of everything else I can get my hands on. I'm a member of the Rare Fruit Council International of Tampa. I've also got a web site www.pcgardens.com that does rare seeds. Put me on your list of interested people. Thanks. ============= Greg, Extracting from what Popenoe says in Manual of Tropical and SubTropical Fruits: Posh-te' (Annona scleroderma) This species, which grows wild in southern Mexico and Guatemala, is scarcely known in cultivation. It is remarkable for its thick relatively hard shell, which makes it of possible value with regard to the production of annonas suitable for shipping to distant markets. This is a vigorous tree with large, thick, glabrous, oblong leaves and small cinnamon-brown flowers. The fruit is roundish oblate in form, about 3 inches in diameter, with dull green surface, divided into areoles by small ridges, the shell being nearly 1/4 inch thick. The seeds, which are embedded in a white melting pulp, are about the same size as those of the cherimoa. O.F. Cook says: "The texture of the pulp is perfect, the flavor aromatic and delicious with no unpleasant aftertaste. It is much richer than the soursop, with a suggestion of the flavor of the matasano (Casimiroa edulus)...The most fragrant pulp is close to the rind. The seeds separate from the surrounding pulp more readily than in most annona fruits." The posh-te' appears to be adapted to moist tropical regions most probably at elevations of less than 4000 feet. --- If I ever get a chance to grow the seeds, I'd certainly try it, but it may be too tender to grow outdoors in California, at least. Greg, what might be worth trying is to leave your seedlings in a pot until they are large enough to produce scions. Try grafting them onto Cherimoya or Atemoya or another Annona. If you have several different kinds of annonas around, maybe graft a. scleroderma onto each kind.. -- ============================================== Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:32:51 +0000 Subject: Rare Fruit News #12 16 Dec 96 I've dug into my files for letters from some of you fellow-growers of rare fruit. These were received before the first Rare Fruit News was mailed. ==================== From: Jose' M. Gallego 09 Sep 1996 Hi, I just found your home page... I am just starting planting rare fruits. Be purchased a house in the San Carlos area (of San Diego, CA) (North of La Mesa, west of El Cajon, south of Santee). It has a total of 29 bearing fruit trees (the typical: apples, lemons, oranges, grapefruit, nectarines, apricots, figs, etc.) Last month I attended the meeting of the local chapter of The California Rare Fruit Growers, San Diego Chapter, darn, they were very nice with me and my daughter, I felt very comfortable and at ease. I really like the group. I did not get to meet everyone, I wish I did and I hope I can this week. Hope we can meet, Jose [Jose did come over for a visit and mango taste-evaluation.] ================== I introduced myself to Galen Collins, after visiting his web page. You might find his list of fruits interesting, especially in view of his more northern address. His web page address: http://www.bayarea.net/~galen/garden.html Check it out! =================== From: Steiner, Randy Date: Wed, 25 Sep 96 10:14:00 PDT Hello, My name is Randy Steiner. I had a question about Rose Apples. Can one grow them in a mid-Atlantic climate? I live in Washington D.C. and would appreciate any information on the topic. I'm not much of a gardener, I just like Rose Apples. Is it possible to purchase the seed in the U.S.? Thanks for you help. Randy =================== From: Richard Cline [Responding to a question about getting a newsgroup for growers of rare fruit, in particular one with an alt. prefix.] I would certainly like to see more posting on fruit growing. I'm from Santa Barbara and we can grow many of the same items you identify. I would suggest that it would be a mistake to identify any new newsgroup with an "alt." heading. Alt seems to attract an unusual number of postings from strange people. At present I have no problem including the posting on rare fruit in a major group on fruit as the total number of postings are not that large. If an additional group is established, people will tend to cross post to such an extent that one reads the same messages twice. Dick ========================= From: Ed Subject: Papayas, bananas *** Leo, Thought you might be interested in some info from Texas A&M Agricutural Extension and also some from Florida found on the Magellan search on the Internet: Papayas: http://leviathan.tamu.edu:70/s/mg/fruits/papayas Bananas: http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/mg/10972.html Maybe you've seen them, but I found them interesting. Also learned how to tell the difference between a male and female papaya. I have both the male with the cluster of blooms on a stem about six inches long, and also the female with the bloom and small fruit right against the trunk. The problem is that the male is maybe fifty feet away from the fruiting female. Hope I have aggressive bees! Will keep you advised. Your remarks about water on bananas was confirmed by the above articles, however, they recommend regular fertilizing during the growing season. Take care....... Ed ============================== From: Hoang Thong Lap Dear Leo, I am interested in joining you and to discuss these items. [Rare fruit of various types.] I live in North Florida but have an orchard in South Florida with some of the fruit tree you mentioned. Please add my name to your discussion list. Thanks. Lap Hoang ============= From: Scott Marshall Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 00:25:39 -0400 What cultivars of capulin cherries do you have? I have 3 different ones, but they are only seedlings and are not setting fruit as of yet. I have some questions concerning them, as what time they bloom in your area and when harvest is. Also what the fruit is like. I'm very interested in obtaining any information that I can. Please write back. Thank you, Scott Marshall =============== The following is a series of back-and-forth letters between Diane Chamberlain and me (Leo Manuel.) Diane Chamberlain wrote: (Earlier in 1996) Hi Leo, I, too, grow many varieties of subtropical fruit. My 2+ acres are south of Tampa, Florida. I write the newsletter for the Manatee Chapter of the Rare Fruit Council International, and am a member of California Rare Fruit Growers. I grow many varieties of citrus, many bananas, figs, blueberries, Surinam cherries, cherries of the Rio Grande, Barbados cherries, Avocados, jujubes, mulberries, jaboticabas, lychees, carambolas, persimmons, hot peppers!, pears, guavas, berries, grapes, sugar cane, loquats, rose apples......... lots of unusual stuff from seeds but most are still young. I lose stuff to freezes (this past year was terrible). I'm hoping that there will soon be an increased rare fruit presence on the internet. Diane ----- Hi, Diane Your list is so similar to mine. I don't currently have a lychee, but have had. (very poor performer in terms of number of fruit, but a beautiful tree to behold!) Pears didn't produce here (in my present location, but I grew them in San Diego at my former residence,) maybe too mild temperature in recent winters, so I removed them. I have had but currently do not have sugar cane. I have one-quarter acre and just don't have room for everything. Also, water considerations make choices necessary. Everything else on your list I have at least one of. However my carombola is very young. I like the look of the rose apple tree, and its attractive flower. And, I like to get people to taste the fruit that "tastes the way a rose smells." I can't recall Barbados cherries. I posted a note Friday about trying to get a newsgroup with a name like alt.agrifruit.rare or something similar, to attract people who are looking for people doing what we do. I'd be interested in your opinion. Thanks for responding! Leo -- Diane writes back: Hi Leo It must be hard to put stuff on 1/4 acre. One of my friends, though, has a regular sized lot, and he has HUNDREDS of different bearing trees, shrubs, etc. He grew many from seed! Most of his stuff is in large pots. Its funny to see some really big bearing trees in a 7 gallon pot! Of course, their roots have escaped and they are now firmly attached to the ground beneath. Other people have e-mailed me in response to the post. So I got out my data base on my edibles. I have about 150 varieties of edible plants in my yard, not counting run of the mill garden stuff like peas and beans. I have to update my list though, because some have departed this life and I have other new acquisitions. Barbados cherries are also called "acerola" and are super high in vitamin C. Very tasty. The flowers are small but quite pretty, and the fruit looks like a ........cherry! They are very cold sensitive. I have mine in a pot near the pool and this year it froze to the roots. It is making a nice recovery. We are experiencing a tremendous drought right now and I find it difficult to keep up with watering so some of my plants are anxiously awaiting rain. About the new newsgroup.....others are trying to get one into the science category on fruit, which would keep out some of the strangeness associated with the alt prefix. I voted yes on the science one, I think it might be serious there. Are you a member of the CRFG? They have a great magazine and seed availability. Diane == Leo Wrote: Yes, Diane, I've been a member of CRFG since the 60's, I believe. I joined within a year or two of its beginnings. It's a great organization and I recommend it strongly to anyone interested in growing "our kinds" of fruit. I had forgotten that acerola is the common name of Barbados cherries. I don't have it now, but did a few years ago. Do you have capulin cherries? They almost can taste like supermarket sweet cherries (if you have a carefully selected tree.) And if you let them get fully ripe. They do get quite large and its hard to find fruit to eat unless you cover them with nets. I hadn't heard of the push for sci.* category for fruit. That's fine with me. Someday, I'd like to see a LISTSERV category of fruit or rare fruit so everyone interested would get e-mail. Don't know whether that's been looked into? ---- Dear Leo, I've never tried capulin cherries that I can remember. At the Fruit & Spice Park in Homestead, and surrounding gardens I've tasted lots of different fruits, but even though at the time of tasting I'm sure I'll remember them, I don't! The newest variety of cherry that I'm growing is Flaucortia indica, also called ramontchi or governor's plum. They seemed somewhat cherrylike to me. I tasted the, and got seeds at the Kampong in Coconut Grove near Miami. Last July there was the "International Rare Fruit Symposium" based at the Fruit and Spice Park in Homestead. Even though Miami in July is not my idea of a tropical paradise we were able to go to a lot of places and see a lot of things like the research station for tropical fruit, and quite a few private gardens where people had unusual things. We just had a bus trip to West Palm Beach to see Gene Joyner's "Incredible Acres" and the Mounts Botanical Garden. My husband stayed home with hte kids while I had a great day looking at all the fruits and trees! Why July is the month of choice for all these trips is questionable, considering how hot and muggy we are that time of year. I love the CRFG magazine. The seed exchange especially is a wonderful resource. Some of my fellow Florida fruit growers disdain it saying it doesn't dwell on purely tropical fruit. Well, being located where I am, purely tropical fruit isn't happy, if I can get it to grow at all....... I get a frost or freeze almost every year so I look for things that have a little tolerance to cold weather. My favorites are citrus, bananas, and persimmons. I have a lot of other things, but they aren't major producers. I have a family of 5 so we can drink a lot of juice! I've noticed that California and Florida have many dissimilarities in the fruits that are grown, and I don't think all the difference is due to climate. It seems that many of our popular fruits are not the ones of choice for CA, and vice versa. I recently bought a new plant called Che. I need to get it in the ground soon. It has good cold tolerance and is pretty and tasty. I hope it does well. Diane From an earlier note from Diane: I have done a few ornamental bananas from seed obtained fron a grower in Homestead, but lost them due to a hot greenhouse and Not watering! At the present time I have 18 varieties of bananas. We love to eat plantains here, so some of my recent acquisitions have been new plantains. I have access to a lot of horse manure and use it copiously as a deep permanent mulch. I moved to this property 6 years ago. The sand was awful, but where I have mulched has gotten better. Good Luck, Diane ================= Now, you send something for future information to be passed around. If you haven't introduced yourself to the group, why not send me a letter and I'll get it out to everyone. How about a question about some rare fruit issue to throw out to everyone? Here's my first question: I'd like to find a reasonable place to buy 8” x 16” tall plastic pots. I've given up on finding them used locally. I like them for all kinds of plants, especially mangoes. I'm going to need at least 100 in the near term. A second question: I have a dwarf Jamaican Red banana that is fruiting for the first time. The fruit is as red as the blossom and very pretty. Have you raised this variety? Does it keep its deep red skin color? How's the flavor of the fruit? I have a huge so-called Cuban Red banana that does NOT have red skin color in the fruit. Is that typical? What is the most tasty of the bananas? Especially in the dwarfs, since the tall ones don't hold up in high wind. Leo -- ============================================== Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 20:41:35 +0000 Rare Fruit News #13 26 Dec 96 Mail from Don Gholston: Unlikely status of rose apples Washington, D.C.; and discusses his experiences with capulin cherries. Don forwards mail from Abilio Garcia, in Lisbon Portulal From Scott Marshall: Where to find planting pots, 1 gallon size. From Larry Poirier JR, a new grower, hoping to get help in growing rare fruit in Santa Rosa, just north of San Francisco. I hope you can help. And finally, I ask you about a couple of fruits I'd like to know more about, and a name change for the Rare Fruit News. ================= Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 22:59:21 -0500 From: Don Gholston Leo, Some quick answers to a couple of questions in this batch of correspondence. The rose apple is definitely not suited to a mid-Atlantic climate. Capulin cherry cultivars that I am aware of: Ecuadorian, Fausto, Harriet, Huachi Grande, Lomeli and Werner. I have descriptions of these if anyone is interested. Don Gholston ============== Leo Wrote: Thanks, Don! I have Ecuadorian (is it also called Ecuadorio?), Fausto, and Harriet, all of which are quite good, but I haven't seen Huachi Grande, Lomeli or Werner. I believe the capulin tastes better when the irrigation is reduced during the ripening period. At least, that was my experience during the past year. My Fausto was producing excellent fruit, but didn't seem to be getting as much water as I thought it needed. After increasing the amount of water provided with each cycle, the fruit was significantly larger, but not as tasty as it had been before. This was expecially evident, as the Ecuadorio nearby was not getting nearly as much water, the fruit was smaller but had better flavor. In previous years I had rated the Fausto as equal to or better than Ecuadorio. The fruit needs to be very ripe to be at its best. If underripe, it is unpleasant, or at least seems to be for my trees and my taste. What is your experience? I'd like to see ...(your evaluations of the capulin cherries you have eaten.) Leo ====================================== From: Don Gholston Ecuadorian: Very large, round fruit, up to 1 1/2 in in diameter. Light green, sweetish flesh, free of astringency when ripe. Drooping tree, out bears many other cultivars. Fausto: Fruit large, 3/4 to 1 in. in diameter. Flesh green, flavor rich and sweet. Ripens late, Aug. to Sept. in southern California. Tree upright but drooping, a reliable annual bearer. Harriet: Large, flattened globe-shaped fruit, 3/4 to 1 in. in diameter. Skin deep purple-black, flesh green, more or less free of astringency. Flavor good, seed relatively small. Tree a genetic dwarf, somewhat of a shy bearer. Seedling of Lomeli. Huachi Grande. Large to very large, roundish fruits, 1 in. or more in diameter. Very mild flavor, lacks the astringency of other capulins, ripens early to midseason. Appears to require high temperatues to develop good flavor. Tree a very heavy producer, tends to over produce in heavy clusters. Originated in Ecuador. Lomeli. Large, roundish fruit, 1 to 1 /2 in in diameter. Flesh fairly astringent, flavor good, seeds small. Tree a heavy producer, often yields more than 200 lbs. of fruit. Bears fruit in clusters. Performs well in cool coastal locations. Orginated in central Mexico. Werner. Small fruit with very good flavor. Tree a light producer, appears to bear better on certian rootstocks. Extremely vigorous, can grow 15 or more in one year. Originated from seed collected in Ecuador. Fausto and Werner are my choices for flavor. These were varieties sold by Rob Brokaw when he ran his South Seas Nursery. I guess Brokaw Nursery in Saticoy may still have them. Don Gholston =================== From: Scott Marshall Leo, I was reading some of your mail and noticed that you were looking for pots, I get all of mine from Stuewe & Sons, Inc. I believe the 1 gallon pots are 29 cents each if you buy a case of 240. If your interested call them at 1-800-553-5331 Scott Marshall =================== To: Scott Marshall From: Leo The only size of pot I haven't found locally is one that is tall and narrow. Its diameter at the top is about 8 inches and the height is about 16 inches. There is one called a citrus pot that will do, somewhat larger than the ones I had hoped for. ========================= From: Larry Poirier JR Subject: First Visit While searching for info on blue heelers, I found your page on rare fruit. Imagine the odds o'that!!! It just so happens that on our 2+ acres, we are planting fruit trees as much as is possible to produce a bounty and be here for our kids and someday our grand-kids. I have never sent e-mail to an unknown entity before, and am curious as to what I may get out of this blind communication. SO, what next? We have cherry, apple, orange, lemon, peach, apricot, fig, grapes, almonds, nectarines and lots of room left. I'm an hour's drive north of the Golden Gate bridge and 6 miles west of 101 freeway in Santa Rosa. Larry Poirier Jr. Fax (707) 523-1108 24 hrs. I might be interested in growing some types of rare fruit, as long as I don't have to baby the thing every minute! AND I think we may invest in a dog soon but are not sure just yet what it'll be. Merry Christmas! Larry Poirier JR ========== From: Leo Manuel To: Larry Poirier JR Thanks, Larry, and the best of the holidays to you and yours. There are several California Rare Fruit Grower chapters throughout the state. If you contact the person whose phone number is in a list I have, you can most easily find out what has been tried and what is likely to succeed. Tell me which of these is closest to you - most likely to have a climate similar to yours, in minimum/maximum temperatures - and I'll give you the name and phone number, even address, of the contact person for the group: Fresno, Berkeley, Seaside, Healdsburg, Woodland, Lindsay, San Pedro My guess is that white sapote, macadamia nut, some varieties of passion fruit, guava, capulin cherry, would MAYBE be candidates. I'm going to pass your question along to others in the group. As for dogs, I have never been happier than with our Australian Cattle Dog, or Blue Heeler. He was 4 when we got him. We wanted to try one of the breed and were concerned about taking an adult dog, with young grandchildren around, but he's ALMOST perfect. He doesn't bark, which is a definite plus. He in an inside dog, was raised that way. We had never had an inside dog before, but it has worked very well. Good luck! =========================== From: Don Gholston Leo, Would you like to include this fellow in your e-mail group? Don Gholston --------------------- Forwarded message: Date: 96-12-25 13:18:25 EST Hello. I am a European and Portuguese botanic enthusiast, i collect tropical and exotic plants trees. In my green house projectd and made by my selft with the size of 22mx5mx5m.Is where i keep the plants. And make my experiences. Near Lisbon. I wish to know new plants collectors of the world for to interchange with me seeds,mudes,information etc. Sorry if some mistake i am computer novice. If you want to know me pelease send to my personal e-mail, and tell my e-mail to yours freinds collectors if you want. Yours sincerely ABILIO GARCIA and Merry Christmas. =============== From: Leo Manuel To: Abilio Don Gholston forwarded your letter to me. If you visit the rarefruit website, http://www.rarefruit.com, you will see that I'm trying to get growers of rare fruit to communicate. We have about 15 (16 with you) people on the list. I will put your name on the list, and if you want to stop, please let me know. Your greenhouse size is pretty large. I could not build one that large on my small city yard and still have much yard left. What plants are you most interested in? What do you now have growing? Let me know if you want to receive the back issues of the newsletter. I can put them all in one large letter, or break it up, if it's too large. Leo =====================And finally============ Does anyone have first-hand knowledge about these two fruits? The psidium guineense or ps guineensis may be one I have. The fruits are not bitter or resinous, to my taste, just very sour. The aroma of the fruit is very pleasant, most unlike my Mexican guavas. The seed cavity is small, the seeds are few but large, and the interior color is yellow. The size of the fruit is about lime size. The Randia Formosa sounds interesting, and I'm going to look for it or seeds for it. PSIDIUM GUINEENSE - Araca, Brazilian guava (Per CRFG) This small evergreen tree is from tropical South America and doesn't do well in sandy soil. The small, yellow fruit with many seeds is smaller than the common guava and too bitter or resinous to be palatable. Propagated by seed. RANDIA FORMOSA - Blackberry jam fruit, Raspberry jam fruit This handsome shrub from tropical America is resistant to drought and has withstood 26*F without damage. The yellow, olive-sized fruit contains two cells with many small flat sticky seeds surrounded by sweet black pulp. Propagated by seed or cutting. ====================================================================== Leo in San Diego leom@rarefruit.com http://www.rarefruit.com ======================================================================