========================================== Rare Fruit News Online - All Year for 1997 ========================================== Winter Damage To Rare Fruit Trees ------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:16:27 -0800 From: Edward Gribble Leo, I haven't touched base with you for a while so just want to say hello. In our "100 tear winds" last week in addition to losing several eucalyptus trees due to the wind and soggy soil, i also lost one of my standard cavendish bananas (blew right out of the ground). The rest survived but their leaves are not so pretty now!! You were sure right about the tall ones taking a beating. The papayas came through ok. We are leaving for New Zealand and Australia jan 27, returning mid-march so will give you a report on my stuff then. Congrats on your website, looks great. Someday want to know how you became a server. Ed ------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:38:07 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Edward Gribble Leo wrote: My Cuban Red (so-called - neither the fruit nor the leaves are red) banana blew over with a bunch of bananas. It broke off, but didn't separate, so maybe it will ripen? Some of my guava trees were stripped of leaves as well as most fruit. Cherimoas also had fruit knocked off prematurely. Some of it ripened, however. I am not a server. I just paid for my own domain, and got a website with the domain name. It isn't necessary to have your own domain, of course, to have a website. I have thought about becoming a server, but I don't think I want more complications in my life. I hope you have a fantastic time in New Zealand and Australia. I haven't been yet, but would like to go. What about email to you in the meantime? Will you have email "delivered" in New Zealand? Tell me what to do about outgoing mail until you return. Looking forward to hearing about your trip. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Daniels" Subject: Re: How did your trees survive winter of '95? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:05:00 -0500 So far, we haven't any freezing weather here in central Fla. However, in '95/'96 we did have a couple of frosts that killed many trees to the ground and totally killed my only mango which was finally going to provide fruit that year. What I have learned is the difference between a frost and a freeze. On the central west coast of Florida (St. Pete/Bradenton) we very rarely get a freeze. However, on our property in Palmetto, we often experience frosts. The difference between the two is that a freeze is a cold blowing wind, but a frost occurs on a clear still night when all the heat radiates into space. Having only frosts actually works out very well as soon as I am prepared for them. You can protect against frosts, but there is nothing that can be done for a freeze. Scott Daniels ------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:54:44 -0500 From: "Raymond N. Gerlach" All of my plants had to be moved inside in early fall because of our Kentucky winters.Anyone have any easy solutions for red spider mites on bananas or a really bad case of mealy bug on a sago palm?I would really hate to pitch the sago but I would really hate for them to start spreading. The weather here stinks.We are awaiting freezing rain followed by 1 to 3 inches of snow.The temp is now 26 and this weekend it's falling to 5 degrees. However,I'm escaping Thursday night to the Florida Keys for a week of diving.I'm sure that I'll have a heart attack when I return. I recently found a web site "eat it com" for fruiting plants and they have a new arrival called an Akebia vine.Any one have any info on this one? Thanks, Ray ----------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:57:50 -0700 (MST) From: Mike Carter My two passion fruit vines are still alive. I covered them a few times when there was a frost warning and have been keeping my fingers crossed. Can't say the same for my fish, they all died last night mysteriously. *Sigh*. Mike Carter ----------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:39:35 -0500 From: Oliver Patterson Subject: How did your trees survive winter of '96? Well, Leo, the coldest it has been so far *this* winter in my area (central Florida) was 30 degrees (or so I heard--I was out of town.) Surprisingly, my papayas and banana had no damage whatsoever. Perhaps I have a warm microclimate. Alternatively, it could be that papayas and bananas are able to tolerate 30 degrees. I don't know, since I have only owned tropical plants for the past 5 months or so. I am very curious to see what happens to my plants during the cold weather. I get conflicting reports about cold-hardiness all the time. A book says one thing and a person says another. I need to find out for myself, I guess. I am also very curious about "root hardiness." In other words, I would like to know which plants will come back and which ones won't. I have read that guava trees are noted for being able to come back after being frozen to the ground. I have a friend whose carambola tree was damaged by a freeze, but he says that the thing that actually killed the tree was the insect damage after the tree had been so severely "stressed." I have heard similar reports about lychee (litchi) trees. What's the best way to help a tree to recover after it has been damaged by a freeze? Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - January 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online October 15, 1998 [AKA RFN9810B] If you have asked me to send something that hasn't arrived, (within a week of asking), please send the request again. My usual scheme is to reply on the same day as receiving your mail. Sometimes the mail comes with a wrong date. (Is that set by your computer or some provider along the way?) I recently got something with a date several months ago. My email application files mail by the date on it. Also, the mail doesn't always get through. So, if it's something you want from me, keep asking until I either send it or explain that I am not going to send it. Similarly, if you don't get the newsletter, it can be from several reasons. I probably made some weird error a while back so that about forty people didn't get the newsletter, due to an alias I used in Netscape mail for that group. Other times, there's no explanation, it just doesn't go through. Please let me know so I can remedy the error, if it's my error, or in any case, just send it along again. I really appreciate it when you send me a CC or BCC when writing to other readers of RFNO. Most of the best information that has been past along has been due to the thoughtfulness of such correspondents. Thanks again! Leo Rare Fruit News Online is primarily a collection of letters from you, the readers. I usually edit each submission, often in a very minor way. It helps if your mail has a relevant SUBJECT. If you want your letter to be published, please use your *real* name someplace in the letter. It takes time to look up your name, so please sign your email. ----------------Index: What's in this issue?----------------- New Subscribers From: Larry Bergez Subject: New Subscriber, CA From: Tom Greaves Subject: New Subscriber, Dallas, TX Wants Help Finding Solarium Plants From: Caitlin Haskell Subject: New Subscriber, Anaheim, CA From: Nan Sterman Subject: New Subscriber, Southern California Readers Write From: Tom Greaves Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online: Intro, Sample, List of Supplements From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" Subject: jaboticaba & cherimoya - sources in Canada? From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Need Information - San Francisco/Napa Valley From: "Geoff Buckner" To: Subject: Historical Microclimate Record and Mangoes Near the Coast To: "Geoff Buckner" From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Re: Mangoes Near the Coast From: "Ben Poirier" Subject: Roselle fruit - Information Sought From: Geoffrey Dunn Subject: Terminator Technology, also Buddha's Hand Citron, From: "Lorinda Millar" Subject: Hi from Canberra, Australia! - What Can I Grow? From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Landscaping Software - Information Sought From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: AzCRFG October newsletter Status of Longan in Thailand; Five Plus Two Part Series From: Sainarong Rasananda --- Stoke's (Banana Plant) sale - And Various Responses ---------------- Please Help Answer Their Questions------------------- From: Larry Bergez Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:43:53 EDT Subject: New Subscriber, CA I recently attended the Annual CRFG Meeting in San Diego and picked up your card. Based upon your questionnaire, here are some of the information that you asked. My name is Larry Bergez, and I live in West Hills, Ca. 91304 I'm interested in growing rarefruit and I have some fruit trees growing in a 1-1/2 acre located in the North County - Escondido. I belong to CRFG - LA Chapter. I have avocados, macademia nuts, mango, papayas, bananas, longan, atemoya, fuji apples, fuyu persimmons, jujube (LI), pomegranate, asian pears, tropical guava, plums, nectarines, apricot, peaches and large collection of citrus - pummelo (6 varieties). I would like to subscribe to your newsletter of Rare Fruit News Online and copies of earlier issues. Thank you very much and hope to hear from you very soon. Larry Bergez ------------------------------- From: Tom Greaves Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:24:52 -0500 Subject: New Subscriber, Dallas, TX Wants Help Finding Solarium Plants Thanks Leo. Yes I'd like to be on the rarefruit list. Here's some info about me: My name is Tom Greaves, I live near Dallas, TX. We are right on the border of zone 7 and 8. Not many fruit or vegetable crops do well here due to the intense heat of summer (we had 60+ days this year with temps over 100 F) and cold winters (usually gets down in the teens F). Some plums, apples and peaches can be grown. I have 4 varieties of plums (all were lost to a late frost), a Ranger Peach (most of the fruit was lost to a bad hail storm), Orient pear (all crop lost due to the terrible heat this year. Last year it had a bumper crop.), several pecans (too young to tell much), a Moorpark Apricot (the only apricot that has a chance. It is predicted to have a crop only once per ten years due to late frosts.). I also have walnuts and almonds planted just last year. In the vegetable garden, cantaloupes and zucchini do well. Only one variety of tomato will set fruit (Merced). I also grow about 20 kinds of hot peppers under sunscreens. But, the reason I want to join this list is that I am constructing a 25' x 12' glass solarium off my familyroom and I want to grow unusual fruit in it. Construction is scheduled to be completed in two weeks. So far I've accumulated a Meyer Lemon, a tangelo tree, a dwarf banana (don't have the variety with me right now) and will transplant about 20 pepper plants (they are actually perennials and will continue producing for 8-10 years). Already I have discovered that the solarium is too small, but will have to wait a long time before I can convince the wife to let me expand. The idea for rare fruit just came a few days ago, so now I'm frantically searching for mail order sources. I sent off to four companies today to get their catalogs. My first question for the list is for suggestions of fruits that don't take up too much room and don't get any taller than 8'. I look forward to sharing information and experiences. Tom ------------------------------- From: Caitlin Haskell Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:42:48 EDT Subject: New Subscriber, Anaheim, CA I am Caitlin Haskell in Anaheim, California. I live in an old farmhouse with my husband Robert, 4 Cats, 3 Dogs, Rabbit, Tarantula, and 2 fish tanks. I grew up in a home with a yard full of fruit and nut trees, and I just don't think a house would be a home without some. We have owned our home less than a year and we are anxious to start work on planting fruit trees. I believe that it is important to preserve "antique" varieties of fruits and vegetables, and I would love to plant some "old fashioned" standards - apples, oranges, pears, peaches, and a pomegranate. I know how we cared for our grapefruit, navel orange, apricot, walnut and pomegranate as a child, but I don't know much about what varieties will grow well here, or where to locate them. (Though I know Orange County is one of the best places to grow some fruits.) I saw the Rare Fruit growers booth at the Orange County Fair, and have wanted to learn more ever since. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for telling me about your family too. : ) Caitlin Haskell ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:34 -0800 From: Nan Sterman Subject: New Subscriber, Southern California Hello Leo! Pleaase add me to your e-mail newsletter. Here's my info I am Nan Sterman, living in Olivenhain, CA (part of Encinitas) I have all kinds of stone fruit trees, guava, mango, banana, paw-paw, surinam cherries, blueberries, blackberries, avocado, citrus, etc. Thanks! Nan Sterman ---------------Readers Write---------------- From: Tom Greaves Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:17:25 -0500 Subject: Rare Fruit News Online Information Leo, thank you very much for everything you sent. I found the Webpage of Bruce Livingston to be especially helpful mostly in the links he has. When you get time, will you please email me the following 4 documents: FlowrFruit, Lychee91, Luchee93 and Mak Fruit. I'm considering joining the CRFG. What do you think about it? Tom ------------------------------- From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" Subject: jaboticaba & cherimoya - sources in Canada? Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:13:09 -0400 hello leo anyone know of a canadian source of jaboticaba or cherimoya? thank you bert dunn tottenham ontario canada ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:33:26 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Need Information - San Francisco/Napa Valley Hi Leo- Can you put me in touch with a rare fruit gardener in the San Francisco/Napa Valley area? I will be traveling there Oct 20-25, 1998, would like to know about points of interest (Eg. botanical gardening, farmer's markets, asian markets, great nurseries), and would like to see an compare notes with a enthusiast in the area (perhaps see what he is growing). I already arranged transportation and accommodations and visits to wineries. I suspect the San Francisco/Napa Vally area is close to a temperate climate. As you know, I live near Miami and grow many different tropical and subtropical fruits. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks,Russ Kaplan ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 98 8:41:10 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" To: Subject: Historical Microclimate Record and Mangoes Near the Coast Matthew, I did not conduct a scientific study, however, I would concur with you that the El Nino winter in the San Diego area was average regarding temperature, if not slightly below average. The spring and summer seemed especially wet and cold. Do you have any historical microclimate records for Point Loma? If so, I would be very interested in viewing the data. Regarding an electronic conversation we had several months ago concerning mangoes performing well near the coast, I have some preliminary results that I would like to share. In early spring I planted two Manila's (15 gal), a Nam Doc Mai (15 gal), an Okrung (7.5 gal), and on your suggestion a Valencia Pride (30 gal). Each of the manila's had two flushes of growth, one in July and the next in September. Each flush added approximately 4-5 inches of new growth to each branch. Nevertheless, with the extended wet and cold weather, each of these plants acquired anthracnose damage on the first flush. These plants seem especially susceptible to this disease. The Nam Doc put out several blooms in July which set fruit. Because the plant is small (2 ft) I cut off all of the fruit. In August, it had a flush that added approximately four inches of new growth plus some more blooms that have set fruit. It has not acquired any anthracnose. The Okrung did not do much until late August. All of a sudden it sent out a flush that has added about 12 inches to each branch. No blooms or anthracnose. The Valencia Pride has done nothing but fruit. It has sent out an almost continual supply of blooms since I planted it. It finally stopped blooming in September. Because this plant is larger, I have let it self-thin itself. There are at least three generations of fruit on it with the largest being about 6 x 3 inches in diameter. It has not had any growth flushes or any signs of anthracnose. So much for the mango report. Thank you in advance for your reply regarding the climate information. Geoff Buckner Point Loma area of San Diego ------------------------------- To: "Geoff Buckner" From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Re: Mangoes Near the Coast Geoff, Leo, and RFNOers: Geoff provides an interesting report on his preliminary trials of some mangoes in Point Loma. The only one of his varieties that I have is Valencia Pride. Like Geoff, I can report that mine flowers almost constantly--as long as the weather is getting into the high 60s in the day. I have seen it flower in January when nighttime temperatures were in the 40s! It won't set in such conditions, but it tries. It usually won't set till late spring. This year, due to the cool spring, it set much later. In October of '97 I was enjoying ripe mangoes. This year I have only about half a dozen fruits on the tree and they are still not even half the size of what I harvested last year at this time. I have doubts that they will ever ripen, though this recent warm spell may help. What surprises me is that Geoff is not getting growth flushes on his VP. Mine is in the midst of one right now, and has had about four this year. The tree was planted in May, 1996, from a five-gallon can. It is now about five feet tall with an irregularly shaped, approximately 3-foot, spread. I have had very little anthracnose, but I do get some. No mildew. I am thinking of adding a Manila and a Nam Doc Mai to my yard, so I am encouraged by Geoff's reports on these varieties. Matthew --------------------------- From: "Ben Poirier" Subject: Roselle fruit - Information Sought Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:47:24 -0700 Hi Leo and All, I hope someone can help me with a question regarding the "fruits " of the roselle.After three years of trying, these plants have finally flowered and fruited this year (Usually they flower later in the year and die with the cold weather before fruiting) I know that one uses the flower calyx for either a tea or jam, but just when do you harvest these calyx ?? Right after flowering, there is not much to the calyx. A few days later it is full of the seed pod (doesn't look like there is much useful to this part). Is it picked at this time and the seed pod discarded ? Or is it left to ripen and picked when the seed is mature ? Is the seed pod then discarded or used ? Is it just the base of the calyx that is used or are bracts surrounding the seed pod used too ? Does anyone have any specific recipes for this ? I would appreciate any info on this so I can give it a try this year. Ben Poirier ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:50:52 -0700 From: Geoffrey Dunn Subject: Terminator Technology, also Buddha's Hand Citron, Dear Leo, Thanks for the RFNO with the Terminator Tech Info, I managed to have a caution printed by one of our foremost farming journals re this dastardly plan. Would you believe that thanks to RFNO, I was probably The first South African to have this knowledge to share? I have managed to Find some grafted Buddha's Hand Citron Trees, and will take delivery late in November. I will try and share this growing experience with any list members who may be interested. Likewise anyone who already has grown Buddha's Hand Citron please share your experience with me. Last but not least a note of condolence to Mr Gholstons Family and Friends. I was one of the people he assisted, and I am saddened to hear of his Passing. Regards ------------------------------- From: "Lorinda Millar" Subject: Hi from Canberra, Australia! - What Can I Grow? Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:03:59 +1000 Hi! My name is Lorinda Millar and I live in Canberra, Australia's capital. I'm very interested in fruit growing and so far, in my smallish backyard, I have planted apple, pear, apricot, peach, plum, nectarine and feijoa trees. I have a 'pleach' tree waiting to be planted (a plum/peach cross) and I also have put in raspberries, thornless blackberries and youngberries, boysenberries, strawberries and blueberries. I'm keen to try more unusual trees (if I don't run out of room!!!) Most of the trees were only planted about 14 months ago, and we already have small peaches growing and a couple of plums. (Can't wait to try them!) Our climate in Canberra is equivalent to about zone 8 in the US. Summers are hot and dry and we get frost most nights in the winter. I'd love to hear about some possibilities... Lorinda Millar -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 11:29:12 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Landscaping Software - Information Sought Leo, I will be moving soon to another property in Point Loma. Sadly, I will be leaving behind over 50 different varieties of exotic and not so exotic fruiting shrubs and trees. The good news is I am moving to a larger piece of property, so I will have more room to start over. Can you or another subscriber suggest a good software program to help me optimize my new landscaping design? Are there any landscaping freeware or shareware programs available? Thanks. Geoff Buckner ------------------------------- From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: AzCRFG October newsletter and Announcements Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:47:11 -0700 CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, INC. THE ARIZONA BRANCH Meeting the second Thursday of every month OCTOBER MEETING: Was Thursday, 7:00 pm October 8, 1998 Cooperative Extension Palo Verde Room 4341 E. Broadway Dr., Phoenix, Arizona 85040 OCTOBER PROGRAM: Dr. Fred Yerger will enlighten us on practical frost protection. Temperatures this winter will plummet to 32 and likely a couple degrees below. You can bet on it because it happens more often than not. I have never made good on an annual pledge to be prepared next year. That's why it is important to listen carefully to Fred's presentation, take notes, organize a plan of attack and begin your campaign now. There are a number of measures that can be used to effectively minimize damage on cold-tender plants. SEPTEMBER; WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED Dr. Al Falkenstein removed the mystery from propagation by Air Layering. Although widely employed around the world by commercial operations using essentially the same basics practiced 5,000 years ago, this technique for cloning plants is snubbed by laymen (people like us) who perceive it to be difficult and complex. It ain't. Not if you proceed as follows: Select a healthy, young branch about 1/2" to 1" in girth on an actively growing mature or adult tree preferably of bearing age. The branch should have as many leaves as possible in a location with about 50% shade for optimum success. Pick a spot 12 to 30 inches from the tip by imagining what it would look like growing in a pot on its own roots. Girdle the branch with a sharp knife and remove a minimum of one-quarter inch strip of bark, clean, to bare wood. completely around the branch. Do nothing further for three or four weeks or until callus has formed on the ring of bark nearest the branch tip. If no callus forms, it is not likely to develop roots. You may want to start with more than one prospective branch. Wet the callused area and apply rooting hormone. Completely enclose the area with damp (but not wet) sphagnum moss and wrap it snugly with Saran wrap. Enclose the section with aluminum foil to deflect light and excessive heat. Check progress and moisture by periodically peeling back the foil. If dry, moisture can be added with a syringe. Two or three months may be required for good root growth. Patience is an important ingredient. After roots have grown, remove the wrappings, lop off the branch about 1" below the girdled area and pot it in good planting mix. Trim some of the foliage to match the small root system and limit water loss through leaves. Since the plant's water supply has been cut off, it should be misted or stored in a humid environment for two weeks and hardened off gradually before exposing to full sun. Misting may be done with a spray bottle containing a weak solution of fertilizer. As for the other half of the propagation program, uncooperative bark on a citrus seedling sort of did-in the show. Let's just say the demonstrator left with all eight of his ten fingers intact. There is, however, much to be learned about grafting and the best way to do it is by selecting any tree in your yard and practice all the methods by grafting that tree to itself. Do it over and over until you are skilled enough to brag. GARDEN CLUBS FAIR Saturday, October 17, 1998 We can fine-tune all the details at our meeting on October 8th. If you are a new member, the Fair is held at the Cooperative Extension. If you are a prospective member receiving this newsletter, come on out and get acquainted. We can assume the arrangements will be similar to the function held on March 14. It is an opportunity for us to have a good time, get to know each other better and earn cash to fund our objectives; promoting the cultivation of edible tropical and subtropical fruit in home landscapes. Our degree of success at the Fair will depend on how many interesting plants we have for sale and the number of prospects that connect with the attraction and join the AzCRFG. The Fair Committee [Joe Corabe, Page Greer, Janet Rogers, Allison Yerger and Dick Gross] needs assistance. You can all share in the fun. 1998 FESTIVAL OF FRUIT-SAN DIEGO The festival was well represented by Arizona members. Many of you wanted to attend but couldn't because of other commitments. The San Diego Chapter deserves a commendation for an outstanding accomplishment. That is not to say there were no glitches. The few were handled professionally. The logistics of such an undertaking makes my hair stand on end and when Glenn Young remarked that it would be held in Arizona next year I found myself frantically looking for a roll of toilet paper. The 1999 Festival will be in San Francisco. Whew! The Arizona Cornucopia looked quite professional and delicious. The display did us well. Thanks to all of you who participated; Joe Corabe, Fred Yerger, Allison Yerger, Jim and Carole Crosson, Al Falkenstein and, last but not least, I thank myself, Grick Doss. Arizona members were received by a host of nice, friendly, outgoing people skilled, many of them, in the art of growing rare fruit, all eager to share their wealth of knowledge with friends and strangers alike. My only disappointment was not seeing more of the tour sites. My wife and I visited the Quail Gardens in Encinitas and Leo Manuel's home north on Interstate 15. Leo's place took my breath away. It is a gem that a thousand superlatives penned by a master-writer might do justice. I cannot. DEMONSTRATION GARDEN Memoriam: You may remember the visit of President Glenn Young and CRFG officers Eunice Messner, George Emerich and Don Gholston in March. Obituary: Don Gholston 1927-1998 It is with deep regret that I report to you the death of Don Gholston at the age of 71, at his home in Watsonville, California on September 21st of a heart attack. Don was a loyal and hard working member of CRFG. Don was a native of San Angelo, Texas. Arrangements await the arrival of his family. Don was a long time employee of Chevron Oil Company. His kind nature, soft voice and mild manner belied his competence and strength as a person. He was a chemist and very knowledgeable researcher. He devoted many hours of work in supplying answers to persons writing to the CRFG web site with questions regarding fruiting trees. Don had responded to approximately sixteen hundred requests for such information in 1998 alone. Don served on the CRFG Board of Directors beginning in 1991 and as President from September 1994 until February 1996. He continued as a Vice President and coordinated chapter relations for Northern California. I have lost a personal friend and CRFG has lost a great friend and booster. Our kindest sympathy goes out to his family. He will be sorely missed! Glenn G. Young, President, California Rare Fruit Growers AVOCADOS Julie Frink spoke at the fruit festival on Avocado, Cultivars and Care. her data may be of interest if you have or want to grow the fruit. The many cultivars of avocado have been divided into three "horticultural" races, West Indian, Guatemalan and Mexican. Many cultivars are hybrids of the three. Mexican fruit is smallish, smooth skin, large "tight" seed with leaves and flesh that have an anise odor and taste. She went on to say, however, that Avocado leaves are "very" toxic. Further: Seeds generally do not run true but the Mexican has a better chance. Mexican is the hardiest rootstock. Avocados require good drainage. Standing water is always fatal. The tree likes full sun but exposed bark on young trees should be protected from sunburn. Paint with white latex. Adult trees are usually shaded with their own leaves. Trees may be heavily pruned for height. Pruning does not hurt the plant. Avocados are subject to severe salt burn. (A critical fact in the Salt River Valley with saline irrigation water and alkaline soil.) When planting, Julie sets the pot on level ground then builds a compost mound around it. After the mound has settled in, she removes the container and places the tree in the hole. One could plant in a raised-bed over gravel for the same effect. Avocado roots are relatively shallow. Avocado sex is unusual. Well, kinky? There are types A and B and an oddball or two that may fall somewhere in the nether. A typical A or B by itself will set enough fruit for an average family. A scion from a B may be grafted to an A or visa versa. Planted in close proximity, either is more productive. Most common varieties are distinctly an A or B. All Avocado flowers have both male and female paraphernalia. "A" flowers are receptive to pollen in the morning but don't release their pollen until the afternoon of the following day. "B" flowers are receptive to pollen in the afternoon but don't release pollen until the morning of the next day. Julie said the female pistil is a prominent feature and male parts are the little "fluffies" in the middle. DECEMBER MEETING: In addition to the election of officers and a discussion of agenda and activities in 1999, please note that the December program includes a PotLuck dinner and gift exchange. Allison proposed the idea for discussion at the next meeting. Sounds like fun to me but the decision rests with you. MEETING AGENDA FOR 1998 MONTH SUBJECT SPEAKER October 8 Frost Protection Fred Yerger November 12 Ginger Allison Yerger December 10 Pot Luck Dinner & Gift Xchange Election of Officers 1999 Goals and Objectives -------Status of Longan in Thailand; Five Plus Two Part Series--------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:57:31 +0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Status of Longan in Thailand - 1 The point that was driven home, for me, is that the Thai Govenment is now really serious about supporting and promoting longans. In the past, for reasons I shall not bother to go into, longan activities were almost ignored by the government. Now, with the economic crisis clearly upon us, the Thai government is re-looking at the agricultural sector as our saviour. They are pushing all kinds of agriculture, particularly those which earn precious foreign exchange. It suddenly dawns on those in power that longan has been our number one fresh fruit export for many years. The importance of longan is further driven home by the disaster (there is no other word for it) of this year longan crop, which is only 5% of the previous record year, thanks to el Nino. Anyway, the table has now turned, and longan has suddenly become the darling of the Thai agricultural world. Works on longans are being pushed forward, sometimes at the expense of other crops. So, it would seem that a new era on Thai longan is dawning. However, one should never discount the inertia and inefficiencies the the bureaucracy. ------------------------------- Subject: status of longan in Thailand - 2 It became clear that there are many organizations in Thailand currently involved in the study and promotion of longan. However, in the past, there were little coordinations among these organizations. I, myself, discovered many organizations and people, involved in longan, whom I did not know or was not aware of before. Ditto, many others, I am sure. In this aspect, the meeting was an eye opener. As a result of the way the Thai bureaucracy system works, some of the previous studies were rather piecemeal or not as thorough as we would have liked. Worse, a lot of these studies ends up gathering dust on a bookshelf. Hopefully, with this new awareness, all these will be changing for the better. The improvement will not be 100%, but, nevertheless, there will be a considerable improvement. For example, to my knowledge, there has never been a longan meeting of this size, and consisting of people from all walks of life. However, one group, which was conspicuously absent, was the traders and the exporters. They were invited, but only a few attended. The various groups of people involved in longans in Thailand are as follows: 1. The universities in the North, namely, Chiangmai, Maejo and Lampang. The main works being done here are researches and helping the growers on technical problems. Most of the people are on the Net. 2. The Department of Agriculture. This is a large organization with branches all over the country. The main works are research, helping the growers, coordination with the Department of Agriculture Extension, export promotion. The important units for longans are the Chiang Rai Horticulture Research Station, and the Northern Research and Development Unit, and the Export Promotion Centre in Bangkok. 3. The Department of Agriculture Extension (this has to be a new meaning in the English language, the Yorkshiremen would not understand the meaning of the word - extension). These are the people closest to the growers. One of their tasks is to bring know-how to the growers. However, in practice, the works being done leaves a lot to be desired. 4. Other governmental ministries, such as the Min. of Public Health, the MO Industry, the MO Commerce. 5. The TISTR (I think that the full name is Thailand Institute of Science and Technology Research or something like that), which is involved in post-harvest research. 6. The exporters who work individually. 7. The traders who also work individually. 8. The growers themselves, with numerous associations, most of which are localised. Most growers, however, are small orchard owners with little education and unaffiliated to any organization. 9. The Thailand Research Fund: a relatively new organization which hands out research funds on a systematic basis. 10. The media which is giving more coverage to longans. There are probably more minor groups, but I cannot think of any at this moment.. ------------------------------- Subject: status of Longan in Thailand - 3 The China Mystery The Thai people have come to recognize that China is both a very large producer and the number one importer of longans. In 1997, almost half of the longans produced in Thailand are exported to China. Statistics shows that almost half of the longan production is consumed domestically, and the 85% of the remaining is exported to China. Most people are aware of the need to fully understand China, both production-wise and marketing-wise. Trips have been made to China, mainly the Guang Si Province. However, reports still remain incomplete, fragmentary and sometimes conflicting. In spite of the realization of the paramount importance of China, there is, as yet, no concrete plan for a complete survey of the Chinese longan situation. People are merely speculating and extrapolating from what they know or have seen. This, to me, is very worrying. ------------------------------- Subject: status of longan in Thailand - 4 The Various Cultivars The history of longans in Thailand was never recorded. Legend, which probably contains considerable amount of truth, has it that longan was brought to Bangkok just over a hundred years ago by Chinese immigrants. From there it found its way to Chiangmai in the North. Somewhere along the way, it mutated, probably into the world-famous Biew Kiew. At any rate, most Thais surmise that Biew Kiew is the ancestor of the Thai longans, because the oldest longan trees in the North are all Biew Kiew. I myself have visited the orchard which is supposed to be where it all started. This orchard, in Chiangmai, consists mainly of Biew Kiew, which are at least 80 years old. Presumably then, Biew Kiew is the Mother of the Thai longans. Nowadays, the most common cultivars in Thailand are Ee Daw (the early and light ones), See Chompoo(Pink), Ee Haew and Petch Sakorn(Diamond). Of these Ee Daw accounts for well over 85%. I shall now concentrate on Ee Daw or Daw, for short. Daw is a local word in the Northern dialect which means light. This either means early or proliferous. Either meaning describes Daw well. It flowers earlier than other cultivars, flowers more easily than other cultivars, and also flowers fairly proliferously. Why is Daw so clearly the favourite in Thailand? 1. The export market (meaning the Chinese market) wants Daw. 2. It is the best for making dried longans, which the Chinese love. 3. It is good for canning. 4. It is large. 5. The outer skin looks good. 6. Because of its fairly thick outer skin, it is fairly durable, and does not deteriorate as a result of transportation. Sulphur dioxide also does not penetrate into the aril. 7. It is easier to grow and to take care of. 8. It has less tendency towards biennial flowering. So, even though it is not the tastiest longan, it earns the growers more profits than any other cultivars. AS a matter of fact, one of the largest exporters said in the seminar: "Do not grow anything apart from the Daw with soft stem. It is well accepted by the market". Ah ha, Daw with Soft stem? I can hear you say. Well. it transpires that there has been numerous slight mutations of Daws. Most of these still retains the name Daw, probably because of that magic word Daw, or probably because the new variety is very close to the original Daw, or probably because they are not sure whether it is really a mutant or whether the change is due to different environment. The confusion over the various varieties of Daw is probably brought about by the fact that there has never been any serious academic attempt to identify these varieties. Besides, when you buy a Daw marcot, there is practically no guarantee that you are buying a genuine Daw, let alone a marcot from a good Daw tree. Anyway, there are now many varieties of Daws, such as Daw with soft stem, Daw with red stem, Daw with hard stem, Daw Sukhum, Daw Puang Tong, Daw Petch Vieng Ping, Daw Loong Kam La and so on. Many growers, let alone the general populace, are aware of these Daw varieties. They think that there is just one Daw! So, caveat emptor! To compound the confusion, most people in Bangkok, including the vendors, have never heard of Daw! If you ask a Bangkokian, what are the best longans, s/he will most likely say See Chompoo or Haew; some may say Biew Kiew. If you ask a Bangkok vendor the same question, s/he will invariably say "Kaloke (skull)", which is a name for all large-size, sweet-tasting longans. Another mystery about Daw is that it seems to thrive only in Thailand. I wonder why. I have not yet been able to find anyone who can give me a satisfactory explanation. Words flow among the Thais that about one million Daw marcots have been smuggled from Thailand into China. If this is true, and it seems to be so, the Chinese may be in for a bit of nasty surprises. ------------------------------- Subject: Status of longan in Thailand - 5 Petch Sakorn I have written in parts about Petch Sakorn before. I shall try add further information about this cultivar, and try not to repeat myself here. 1. About the name: Petch means diamond, Sakorn is short for Samut Sakorn, the province where Petch Sakorn was discovered. Some people in America call it 'Diamond' or 'diamond River'. 2. What is it? I am pretty sure that it is not Dimocarpus Longan Lour. (I am writing this from memory, so the spelling or the words may not be quite correct), which is the sub-species of practically all commercial longan cultivars in the world. I think it is Dimocarpus Longepetiolelatus Leenh (or something to that effect), which is a sub-species found in Thailand. Or it may even be a cross between the two. More works are needed here. Please refer to Choo and Ketsa 1991 for details about the various species and sub-species of longans. 3. Where can it be grown? I have a feeling that, like mango, it can be grown anywhere in Thailand. Reports have it that flowering in the cooler North (which most longans prefer) is not as proliferous as elsewhere. Fruit set does not appear to be a problem. It is very easy to grow and look after. 4. When does it flower? Here it generally flowers twice a year, although sporadic flowering may appear at other times as well. Cincturing or girdling encourages flowering to a great extent. Many use cincturing to ensure maturing of the fruit during the Chinese New Year in January or February. The major crop occurs at the same time as the other longans. However, most of the growers here discard this crop entirely as it cannot compete with the other longans. The other crop flowers in about August or September. 5. What does it taste like? As I am not good at describing unfamiliar taste, words fail me. I have already described as much as I can, which is not enough, I know. 6. Why are people growing it? It is easy to grow anywhere. In the past, the popular longans were grown almost exclusively in the North. It fetches a very very good price during the Chinese New Year. It is a novelty, because it is the first longan we know which matures in January. 7. What other uses has it? It is found to make good dried longans. However, no commercial production has been reported yet. 8. Does it has a bright future? For the Thai taste, it is a long way behind the other longans. Most Thais agree that improvements are necessary. However, they also agree that it is a good starting point. However, the Thai taste is not necessary the same as the Westerners. We Thais think poorly of Kensington Pride, R2E2 and the whole lots (these are mangoes). -------------------- Subject: Situation of Longan in Thailand The Popular Cultivars To summarize, the most-grown cultivar by far is Daw. Among the new cultivars, the most-grown is Petch Sakorn - it is still a very, very long way behind Daw. The major problems with Daw are as follows: 1. The flavour is not the best - about # 3 or 4, I guess. 2. All Daws in the North mature at about the same time, which presents us with all sorts of problems. 3. We would like to find a cultivar which matures about a month or more earlier. 4. Like most cultivars, Daw still has this tendency towards biennial bearing. The major problems with Petch Sakorn are as follows: 1. The flesh is too watery 2. It has a particular taste, which is not to the liking of the Thais. Most Thais agree that Petch Sakorn needs improvement before it becomes widely acceptable. At present, its real value is its ability to bear fruits out of season, as well as its comparative rarity. So the search is on for a new cultivar. Sainarong ------------------------------- Subject: Importance of Humidity For Longans Many people here are beginning to think that humidity is essential for both the flowering of lychees and longans and the fruit-set thereof. No sufficient research has been done on this as yet. Some growers are thinking of experimenting with overhead mist sprayers above the trees to keep both the temperature down and humidity up during an unfavourable season. I myself am leaning towards this idea. My problem is that most of my longan trees are very very high indeed!!! Which brings us to another subject in vogue here. Is it possible to keep the height of the trees low and yet generate good crops annually? Academics think that this is definitely the way to go, but a lot of work needs to be done in this area, because the growth in our climate is proliferous, to say the very least. Sainarong [Thanks, Sainarong! I make some or all of this into one longish longan supplement, with your permission and your editing. Leo] -----------Stoke's (Banana) sale - And Various Responses--------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:04 -0400 (EDT) From: HESTERC@mail01.adm.duke.edu Mailing-List: list zingiber@onelist.com; contact http://www.onelist.com Subject: Stoke's (Banana) sale - And Various Responses To list members: Most of you are probably on the mailing list, but for those who aren't, Stoke's Tropicals recently sent out a flyer with an "end-of-summer" sale. There are 10 types of bananas listed, each available for $7.95. The list includes Rajapuri, Rojo (a.k.a. Zebrina), Ornata "Lavender", Mysore, Cardaba, Double (Mahoi), Kru, Super Dwarf Cavendish, Basjoo and Grand Nain. There are also several gingers, a couple of heliconias, and a few Plumerias on sale. They have a toll free number for ordering: 1-800-624-9706. Note that I am not endorsing Stoke's--in fact, I had minor problems with the last order I got from them. However, the bananas are worth a try at those prices. I also don't hold anything against them, I just want to make it clear I have no connection with them. Just thought some people out there might want to know. Clarence Hester ------------------------------- From: Lester Kallus I have had a bit of experience with Stokes. I can tell you that they've been efficient in sending plants when I wanted them. A Globba that I ordered arrived 1/2 brown. I called them and had a replacement in 3 days. It arrived green but wilted and rolled over dead. I called them again and got yet one more replacement. They gave me absolutely no trouble at all when I called for the replacement and were surprisingly pleasant given that they were sending me a second replacement. I too have no connection with them and obviously have had a bit of trouble with some of their shipments but they've been honorable and I definitely plan to use them for future purchases. Incidentally, with spring orders, there's a discount if you order through the web rather than over the phone. I don't know if that carries over to a further discount beyond the sale. Now if only I could find a space to put a couple of the products while awaiting my greenhouse to be completed... (sigh) Les -------------------------------------- From: "Raymond N. Gerlach" I too have ordered many plants from Stokes' and have had only good luck with them. They ship the banana corms with the roots still attached. Pop the corms into the ground and they start growing immediately. Lessard's old nursery is now "Going Bananas". I have had mixed luck with them. Their corms are shipped stripped of all roots and greenery. I had several start growing after approximately a month and then there was the Saba and Ele Ele which fizzled into a pair of mushy piles without even showing a sign of life. Another place that I've had great luck with is Tropiflora's Cargo Report. During the spring and summer their catalog listed a 10 pack of assorted bananas for $50 including shipping. I ordered one and the plants did wonderful. I ordered from them last year and was very satisfied too. Happy growing, Ray in Ky. zone 6a -------------------------------- From: David Matz Fellow banana enthusiasts (and whatever other tropicals are discussed here): I've been very satisfied with Stokes. The sale they are running now was mentioned earlier, and, since I actually ordered some, I thought I'd pass on that I am very satisfied with my new bananas. The five I ordered joined my other five. The one thing I can't stress too much is that they shipped fast. I was under some climate pressure. We had snow the Monday that I ordered them, so, that was the last week I was willing to get any plants shipped. I got them Friday, and, all were in good shape. My bananas are house plants, needless to say! David in Alaska, zone 1 or less! >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - January 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 02/03/97 03 For some reason, many strange symbols crop up in email. Most are of the type -20 or -92 or -93, etc. This makes editing more of a chore than one would guess. It further complicates editing when much of the text of a previous newsletter is quoted by someone. It shouldnÕt make any difference, but I found that it takes longer to get the Ō> quotesĶ only at the beginning of lines, and to have the lines relatively full length, and to make it clear where the original ideas end and the response begin. IÕd suggest, but only suggest, that you work the sense of the cited text into your response. ItÕs no biggie, but just on my mind. Leo ------------------------- [Scott responds to PatriciaÕs questions about his freeze protection system, From: "Scott Daniels" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 01/26/97 02 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:58:26 -0500 Patricia wrote: > Hi Leo. > If you could, please relate to Scott Daniels that I would be > interested in hearing everything about his freeze protection > system. I got to see the damage this weekend. Four citrus trees > all young. The misting system worked well where it hit the > trees. Lost a couple I think. Lost all my tomatoes, green > peppers, and eggplants. They were covered, but it got really > cold here. It had to be in the teens here in Lakeland. The citrus > didnÕt get this bad last year when we hit 18 degrees! Patricia It sounds like maybe you are already using the same system I have. Here is what I have. I use microjet irrigation for all of my trees during the year. I use the big yellow stakes with one of the 270 degree spray nozzles. When the freeze hit, I changed the regular nozzle to a 45 degree spray. Then I moved the stake from the base of the tree out a foot or so and put it in the ground at an angle so the mist would shoot straight up in the air. This worked for trees < 3' tall. For the bigger trees, I also added a piece of tubing and another jet at the end, and placed it in the bough of the tree. The two jets seemed to provide good coverage for trees 8' tall. I used the red jets which put out about 15 gallons per hour. I looked at my trees yesterday and I still had some damage. We hit 24 degrees and were in the 20s for at least 8 hours. The macadamia and white sapote had considerable leaf burn, but were otherwise fine. The rose apple is dead, and the guava is severely damaged. I suspect the damage to the latter my be due to exposure to sub-freezing temperatures without any protection. By the time I got the water running that night, the temp. was alreay 26 degrees. The next night may also have been sub-freezing, but I did nothing to protect them. In the future I may have more data, but I think that where the leaves were covered in ice, they were protected for the most part, but burning is to be expected. As to where to buy microjet supplies, the good stuff comes from a wholesale irrigation supply. In Manattee county, Coast pump, TWC, and James irrigation are ones I have visited. You can buy from them as long as you spend at least $20 or so. If you buy hose though, be prepared to buy 1000'. The prices are a lot less than Home Depot. Alternatively, if you are only protecting a few trees, you can buy similar stuff at HomeDepot or one of the other home improvement centers. Good growing, Scott Daniels ---------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 01/26/97 02 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:03:18 -0500 Scott, was it really 24 degrees? I would have expected colder temperatures where I live (north of Orlando), but it wasn't nearly that cold here. Perhaps the cold weather came in from the west and didn't make it all the way across the state. Apparently, the misting method of cold protection is very effective. It's easy to do, also. I would have expected (Rose Apple, and Guava) to be completely defoliated, and possibly dead. --------------------------------------------- Kenneth needs sources of information. IÕm putting his letter here for you to see and perhaps you can recommend places for him to look: Jan 29 09:47:31 1997 From: krtosu hello leo yes i am interested in growing rare fruits. i am researching berry and fruit trees. in particular, i am looking for information on apricots. my farm is located in northeastern ohio. i am keeping it organic and am finding it difficult to find reliable information. if you can be of assistance please email me at krtosu@micro-net.com thank you kenneth tarsitano ----------------------------- Thu Jan 30 21:37:35 1997 From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" Subject: My recommendations I love the newsletter, and I'm sure that many others on the list do, too. You may not realize what you have done, but you have succeeded in "bringing together" tropical fruit enthusiasts from all around the country. I can ask a question and have at least one answer in just a few days: that's great. It seems that more and more people are "posting" to the newsletter, and more people are added to the list each week. So far your project has been very successful. Sincerely, Oliver ------------- There are rarefruit growers in the San Francisco area, I believe. Can any of you help Piyush with the questions in the following letter? Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:50:39 -0800 From: Piyush Mehta Hi Leo, I wish I had easier access to rare-fruit growers, and I know I would've benefitted from a news group like the one you wish to get started. I think it is a good idea to exchange information and share ideas through this medium. I would certainly be a reader and maybe a contributor (if I have any information that helps). I am a complete novice in the Bay Area (close to San Francisco) who would like to grow and enjoy these so-called rare fuits. However, I must admit that I am hesitant to buy expensive fruit trees and then have the winter cold wipe them out. If you have the time, maybe you, or somebody you know, can help me with these questions: * How easy is it for a rare fruit tree to survivie the cold? In the outdoors (without a green-house) is there any way to overcome this problem? * I would like to grow guava, white sapote, pomegranates, bananas, mango (if dwarf), lychees, etc. Do you have sources for these trees? Are you aware of "home gardeners" that are able to sell trees at lower costs than nurseries? * Do you have recommendations for nurseries from where to purchase these trees? I hope I am not imposing on you. Thx, Piyush >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - February 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 There were fewer responses on sources of information on the internet than I had hoped, but if you think of some later that you believe will be helpful, please pass them along. What about telling of the publications you believe would be helpful. I belong to North American Fruit Explorers, NAFEX, and have received their publication, Pomona, for years. Subscription information at: NAFEX, Rt. 1, Box 94, Chapin, IL 62628. Dues are $12 for 4 quarterly issues. I also belong to California Rare Fruit Growers, am a life member, and have belonged almost from the beginning. I have every original issue. (The first ones were mimeogaphed.) I cannot praise CRFG too highly. The publications have been extremely useful. See their web page. Fruit Varieties Journal has been very helpful, covering trees from temporate and subtropical climate zones. It is a publication of American Pomological Society. Membership is $20 per year. Write to: Business Manager Robert M. Crassweller, 102 Tyson Building, University Park, PA 16802. New members are added every month. It would be easy to make a mistake and not get them on the mailing list. If that happens to you (you received past issues but nothing since) do let me know. That message may sound odd, since if theyÕre not on the mailing list, they wonÕt read this. However, I usually send all past issues to new members, and this issue will be a past issue someday. TheyÕll read this, etc. By-the-way, if I didnÕt send past issues to you, and you want them, please let me know. I posted a question on several newsgroups about wanting to find names of dwarfing mangos. YouÕll find the responses by two growers below. I posted via Deja News, and highly recommend that you look into that for yourself, when you want information about anything. Leo ------------------------------------------ From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Sources of information on the internet Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 18:13:06 -0500 Here are some places to check out, if you haven't already: http://www.asiatour.com/thailand/e-02trav/et-tr155.htm http://www.xc.org/echo/ http://agrolink.moa.my/comoditi/fruits.html http://www.ultra.net.au/%7Epns/trop/fruit.htm http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/ -- Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:04:27 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Burkett Subject: Re:Rare Fruit News Online 02/04/97 03 Leo, The -20, -92, -93 symbols show up due to either non-standard ascii emailers (Windows applications are the usual culprit) and such things as pasting from a Windows word processing document to email. Users need to either adjust the preferences for their email programs or take more care in mailing. I personally find it really annoying to read through these meaningless symbols. And what are a few mango varieties that will fruit every year, but remain relatively compact small trees? Richard ------------------------------------------ From: Stef Van Uffel Subject: RareFruit Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:11:07 +0100 Hello Leo, Thanx for the fast reply. Most of you lucky people seem to live in a subtropical climat, so you don't have to worry about freezing to much. By the way, do you already have a rare-fruit newsgroup or did you abandon the idea ? Let me know ! Stef.VanUffel ------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:59:23 -0500 From: Bill Lady Newsgroups: sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,alt.agriculture.misc, sci.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens,alt.agriculture.fruit,aus.gardens Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? > ----------------------- Posted via Deja News --------------------------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Leo wrote: > > What commercial mango (grafted, probably) is more dwarfing, in your > estimate? The question was asked of me by a fellow grower, on our Rare > Fruit Newsletter Online (http://rarefruit.com) and I have only a limited > knowledge for the trees I have. In my limited experience, I have found > that all seedlings seem to be far more vigorous and bigger than all > grafted trees. > Thanks! > Leo > Hi, Leo: The smallest mango tree I know of is the Julie, which I had on my farm in Central America. I planted one here in SW Florida, and a cold snap killed it, so they are not very cold resistant. Seedling mango trees may sometimes grow true to the parent stock, and may not. You never know what you will get. This is the way new mango varieties are discovered, but it takes a few years to know what you have. If you want to be sure of what you are planting, go with the grafted stock every time. Bill Lady ------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:22:09 -0500 From: Bill Lady To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Thanks for the Julie recommendation Leo Manuel wrote: > > Thanks for your reply, suggesting Julie. I've heard about it. How > is the fruit? > Is it susceptible to disease more than average? > (mildew or anthrachnos) What about fruit size and color. Hi, Leo: I'm really not an expert on mangos. I had a farm with some non-commercial mangos in Belize many years ago, and then a small farm in Honduras, with 8 or 10 grafted varieties. No commercial production. I don't believe they are resistant to anthrachnose. I recall one year in Honduras when the general crop all over the country failed due to anthracnose, including at the Pan American Agricultural School, at Zamarano, where all of my fruit trees came from. The students graft the trees and then the school sells them to the public at a very reasonable price to get them out into the country. My farm was in a small valley at 3,200 feet elevation, and practically anything would grow well there. They were relatively small, flat, and the color isn't very attractive. They are a sort of mixed green/purple/reddish combination. I don't think they would be attractive enough for retail sale. The taste and texture are good. The real advantage, I guess, is the very small size of the tree, and the quick bearing. I have eaten some very wonderful mangos from seedling trees. I recall one, in particular, which was grown in Tegucigalpa from a seed from Trujillo, Honduras, and this was outstanding. A little town near the Pacific coast of Honduras, Pespire, is famous for their mangoes, which are very small and mostly from enormous, very old trees, all of which are seedlings. Most of the people in Honduras prefer to eat them green with salt, but not me. Down there you find volunteer seedling trees scattered all around the country, and some must be 75 feet or more tall. > What mangos do you like best? I realize that our weather situation > is different, so that has to be taken into consideration. That's very hard to say. I love most of them. Perhaps the Haden and the improved Haden derivatives (such as the Davis Haden) are best, and they are very beautiful. Last year I bought a lot of mangos locally which were imported from Mexico, and froze them after cutting them up into pieces. Try it. I used ascorbic acid to preserve the color, and a light syrup, and they froze very nicely. In fact. I still have some in the freezer, and had a delicious mango cobler (like a peach cobler) a few days ago. I would love to have a mango tree in my yard here, but am afraid it gets a little too cold here in SW Florida. I guess I'll have to go back to Honduras. Best regards, Bill Lady ------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 21:12:31 0000 From: Libby J. Goldstein Subject: Rare Fruit Hi, I've been growing citrus and bananas (the latter without any fruit as yet) for 5 or 10 years. I grow them all in containers here in Philly, zone 7A. That means that twice a year I can be heard screaming and yelling that I'm going back to growing miniature geraniums as I haul huge pots to and from the bottom of the backyard where it's sunny. (When I designed the garden, I did not make a path straight from the back door to the deck at the bottom of the garden 40/50 ft because it didn't fit my esthetic. Ah well, it does look good.) I also grow raspberries, blueberries, sour cherries and currants, but I never get any blues because the finches nibble the flower buds all winter, and the year I netted the bushes, I caught a yellow throated warbler's head in the net. I can always buy blueberries anyway. We grow figs in our community garden. They're trained as a 6' tall hedge. Here in South Philly, figs aren't all that rare, but fig hedges are. I'd love to be on a rare fruit growers list. Libby South Philadelphia zone 7A ------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:56:03 +1000 From: Brian White Newsgroups: sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,alt.agriculture.misc, sci.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens,alt.agriculture.fruit,aus.gardens To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? Hi, I am an Australian Horticulturist. I have a long-standing interest in the growing of tropical and subtropical fruit trees. Some mango trees do grow smaller than others. The main commercial variety here in Australia is known as Kensington Pride. To my palate, this variety is superior in every way to most others available here. We get Carabao mangoes, and indian mangoes here from time to time, and none can hold a candle to our mainstay variety. Its seeds are polyembryonic, of which only one embryo is usually the result of sexual reproduction. The remaining embryos are usually asexual - ie clones of the mother plant. Whether or not this variety will grow in your area is another question. With regards to size of the tree, mangoes respond well to pruning, and that is the most commonly used method for managing size in Australia. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------------ If anyone can tell Leo where to find Kensington Pride in the US, he REALLY wants to try it! ------------------------------------------ From: Ed Griffin Subject: Rare Fruit Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:54:15 GMT I grow >....at our home you will find such fruit as Mango, Banana, Cherimoa, >Pitanga, Rose Apple, Atemoa, Guava, Capulin Cherry, Longan, >Passion Fruit, Kiwi, Cherry-of-the-Rio-Grande, White Sapote, >Black Sapote, Citrus, Jujube, Japanese Persimmon, and a few others: oranges, tangerines, lemons, limes, grapefruit,lychee, papaya, coconuts, tamarinds, sugar apple, soursop, mamey, Passiflora edulis & quadrangularis, avocados, guavas, macademias, carambola, furry, milky brown-fruit whatsises, satin-leaf hoohoos, acaulescent black-cherry doodads (so I forget names....:^)), akee, jakfruit, and just-now trying "low"-chill pear, peach, apple, and hazelnut, pecan, chestnut, and God-knows what else.... I'm not quite sure where this will end up, so if it's a newsletter, would someone tell me: -1- in the welter of "rare" fruits available here in extreme south Florida, I've never seen a pistachio tree offered: are it's requirements not suited to subtropical climes? -2- I'm up to my ears in conflicting info: are there kiwis that can be grown with NO chilling requirements...? ---- Ed Griffin ---- USDA Zone 10b (FL)- ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:26:09 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Ed Griffin Ed Griffin wrote: > -1- in the welter of "rare" fruits available here in extreme south > Florida, I've never seen a pistachio tree offered: are it's > requirements not suited to subtropical climes? > > -2- I'm up to my ears in conflicting info: are there kiwis that > can be grown with NO chilling requirements...? > > ---- Ed Griffin ----USDA Zone 10b (FL)- Ed, I'm sending your letter to other rare fruit growers for their additional information, but I think you'll find that "trying "low"-chill pear, peach, apple, and hazelnut, pecan, chestnut" will be more challenging, especially hazelnut, and chestnut, as they require more winter chill. You MIGHT get a few pears, but I had trouble, and you're much more tropical than I am. Pistacio trees require considerably more chill, as well, but you might get pecans. Kiwis: there are low chill varieties and it's important to have a male suited for the bloom period of the low chill female. As I recall, Matua (spell?) is a suitable male, and Tewi and Vincent are low-chill females, but I don't know if they're sufficiently low-chill for your more tropical climate. I hope others in the group will respond, as many of them are far more knowledgeable than I. Leo >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - February 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 At my place in San Diego, the are blooming trees of apple, peach, nectaring, plum, mango, pitanga, macadamia, and capulin, that I can think of. IÕve been eating guavas and cherimoas, and an occasional tangerine. ItÕs a great time of year-early March-when the days are noticeably getting longer. Matthew Shugart sends information about what he has growing, and his micro-climate. Don Gholston has additional pistachio and low chill kiwifruit information. Patricia A Cherundolo (Patty) passes on ideas of best-tasting mangos, pistachios, and other deciduous fruit in Florida. Ed Griffin is looking for females (fruit trees.) Harry W. Mazal is a new member and sends information about where to get the Muy Dulce papaya Willie McKemieÕs description of Muy Dulce papaya is inserted. Diego Puron, a new member, wants to buy seeds or plants of acerola (barbados cherry) for the Yucatan Peninsula. Michael Gambill, a new member, lives in Arkansas, and grows fruit in his greenhouse. Brian White gives me the name of a nursery in Australia to look for Kensington Pride mango, and praises the fruit so that I think IÕve got to get it! And, a grower in Florida finds Julie mango to be tasty but disease prone. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Shugart Leo, and readers of the newsletter: I'm in Carlsbad, northern San Diego County, CA. I'm only about a mile and a half from the ocean, but the seasonal variation is much more pronounced than at many coastal locations (like Newport Beach or Coronado, for example), thanks to my being in a low spot at the mouth of a canyon. I track high and low temps, and for the last 30 days or so, I've had an average low of around 47 and an average high of around 65 (if I recall my data corectly). We had some good chilly periods in November and December, too, so we probably got a lot more chill than last year. I would guess 400-430 hours, but chill-hour estimation is not very scientific. Anyway, now it has been warm (high 60s, up to 83 one day) for a few weeks (though still mid-40s at night) and a lot of stuff is blooming. I have a Flavor Queen pluot that has been growing in SD for about 3 years now (at my location for about one) and is in bloom! Pluots--for the uninitiated--are 75% plum and 25% apricot, dveloped by Floyd Zaiger, extremely sweet, and supposedly need 500-660 chill hours. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the blooms will result in fruit, as pluots would indeed be rare fruit for coastal San Diego County! Another pluot, Flavor Supreme appears to be about to bloom, too, while the Japanese Green Gage and Beauty plums are already in full bloom. The Roayl apricot has its flower buds red and swelling. No sign of 'waking up" yet on the Mariposa and Santa Rosa plums, though a few buds are swelling on Satsuma and on an old apricot that I believe is a Newcastle (not to be confused--as it often is--with the low-chill Early Newcastle). And, another "rare" fruit, the Mesch Mesch Amrah black apricot (Prunus dasycarpa, probably, which is a natural plum-apricot hybrid) is in the midst of an absolutely profuse bloom. It is from Libya, so I took a chance that it would not need much chill, and its early full bloom would appear to bear out that hunch. I'll report back about the fruit in later months. I've got lots of bees this spring, so pollination should not be a problem. Just, please, no heavy spring rains! And not too much of that "June gloom." (And, after months of begging for temps in the low 40s, now I'm worried that the continued low temps are going to affect the formation of the fruit embryos--and keep my mangoes from setting. But that's the subject for another musing some day...) By the way, while we get pretty good chill for a coastal spot, we do not freeze. So, I'm hoping to get some fruit on my bananas this year, too! Best, Matthew ***************************************************************** "Pay day came, and with it a beer"--Rudyard Kipling ***************************************************************** Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 Leo, In reference to the fellow in Florida asking about pistachios and low chill kiwifruit, Elmwood is another kiwifruit cultivar that seems to do well in southern California. I also have a not yet published Fruit Fact on Pistachio that I can e-meil to anyone who wants a preliminary copy. But pistachio needs more winter chill than it is likely to get in South Florida. Don Gholston -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:53:39 -0500 From: Patricia A Cherundolo Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 Hi Leo, Here's some responses to your letter. Everyone I've met here in Florida think the Carie mango is the best tasting. As for pistachios, someone in south Florida is raising them. They had them for sale, but refused to sell more because they looked like some tree that had poisonous nuts on them and didn't want to be liable for someone dying and blaming them. Don't ask. Anyway, they had nuts on their trees and grew more pistachios from them. I had a friend here in Central FL tried pistachos and felt it was too wet for them. Got pretty much nothing for his efforts. Pears, peaches, plums, etc - there are some for Florida. The lowest number of cold hours I've seen is 75 hours. You can get them at Home Depot, White Rose, or other nurseries around Florida. Also nut trees. Pecans for sure, but they apparently are alternate year bearers here. Since all those trees I mentioned do loose their leaves, they'd probably have a hard time in South FLorida. But you can never tell. Patty -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Griffin Subject: Rare Fruit : Imbe, Wampi, Females, Cashew?? Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:00:27 GMT Got an old shrub whose name I forgot - branches grow in whorls of 3 - very unusual, s.b. diagnostic. Anybody know if it's a wampi or imbe (no refs handy)? I have several fruits that are clearly male (including above): anyone know of nurseries that will ship guaranteed females of various fruits? In a wild foray thru a plant sale, I got a "red cashew". What will be different from any other cashew (i.e., WHAT's red?) It's presently denuded (35F nite last month). Thanks - Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:44:52 -0600 (CST) From: Harry W. Mazal OBE Dear friends, Willie McKemie had asked that I forward his article (see below) to your mailing list. This was not done until we had the dates fixed for the days that the Moy Dulce papayas would go on sale. These dates have now been fixed. Fully-sexed Moy Dulce 1 papayas will be available in 2 gallon cans. Full planting instructions are included with each sale. Although Moy Dulce Papayas are tropicals and will perish after a freeze, they have been engineeered to produce large quantities of fruit in a single growing season. In 1996, Will and Gretchen Ryals of New Braunfels produced 72 fruits from a single Moy Dulce female. 59 of these were harvested, of which 19 were fully ripened. The largest ripe papaya weighed 5.1 pounds, with an average weight of 4.4 pounds per ripe papaya. Forty papayas werre harvested green and used as vegetables. The average green papaya weighed 2.2 pounds. Green papayas are a favorite vegetable in the Asian community. Recipies for both green and ripe papayas will be available at both sales events. EARLY BIRD PLANT SALE When: Thursday and Friday March 20 and 21, 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM Plant Sales Information: (210) 829-5100 VIVA BOTANICA PLANT SALE* When: Saturday and Sunday April 12 and 13, 10:00 A.M. to 6:00 PM Where: San Antonio Botanical Gardens (Carriage House Gate) 555 Funston, San Antonio, TX 78209 *Viva Botanica! is the annual Family Garden Fair organized by the San Antonio Botanical Society. All proceeds derived from this event are used to beautify the gardens. Apart from plant sales, Viva Botanica! offers music, food, entertainment, children's activities, crafts, etc. Spaces for plant vendors are still available. For information, please call Libby Bishop (Chairman) or Gloria Duke Richter (Development Director) at (210) 829-5360 I would be very interested in participating in your mailing list. Thank you, and kindest regards, Harry W. Mazal ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leo's question: What is Moy Dulce papaya? There is a papaya enthusiast/breeder in San Antonio named Moy. He has developed the variety: "Moy Dulce 1". The San Antonio Botanical Society has for several years sold 1 to 3 gallon plants in the early spring as a fund raising activity. I grew 10 of these during the 1995 season. This variety looks promising for areas south of mine or for those willing to provide some protection. My plants produced about 10lb of fruit each before they froze. I estimate that they would have produced between 50 and 100 pounds each had they had another month or so. I had 6 females and two males survive until the freeze. I planted them 10 feet apart in my orchard, interplanted with 1st year persimmons; my thinking was that they might make a good 1st year cash crop in a peach or other fruit tree orchard. Following is part of a published description of the variety. Papayas are normally perennial evergreen tropical fruit trees. Originally native to tropical America, they are now cultivated throughout the tropical and sub-tropical areas of the world. Because San Antonio is at the northern edge of the subtropics, most papayas will not ripen in ths area unless some genetic adaptations are made. Since climatic conditions cannot be changed, a hybrid has been developed that will tolerate some cool weather, but more important, one that has a short growing season. These changes allow "Moy Dulce 1" to be treated as an annual. Many varieties of papaya will grow strongly in San Antonio's hot summer, and might even set fruit. These, unfortunately, do not usually have time to mature befoe the first frost. The "Moy Dulce 1" hybrid will not only set large quantities of fruit but will, if properly cared for, allow for ripe papayas to pe picked from around the middle of September until the first major frost. In the San Antonio Botanical Gardens one plant of this fariety has set over fifty fruits in a single growing season, many of which ripened perfectly before the first frost in late November. A short-lived, fast growing woody herbvaceous tree, "Moy Dulce 1" is a semi-dwarf variety growing to 10 or 12 feet in a single season. It has straight, smooth trunk with scarring at the points where leaf stalks have fallen off or been removed. Each leaf is borne on a long, rigid leaf stem. Smaller leaves will appear in the crotch of the large stems, or at the scars where a stem has fallen off. "Moy Dulce 1" is a dioecious variety; it bears male and female flowers on separate trees, and requires at least one of each to produce. In other words, neither the female nor the male tree can produce fruit by themselves. A single male tree is sufficient for pollinating up to 24 females, but a ratio of one male to five females is preferred. Male flowers are waxy, fleshy and fragrant. They are borne on long, spectacular stalks up to 3 feet long with clusters of lovely yellow flowers. The female flower is borne on a short stalk, and is much larger than the male flower. It is creamy white with bright yellow anthers. Two smaller female flowers will often appear on either side of a larger female, and thse will also set fruit. Bees, other insects and hummingbirds are the most common pollinators. Hand pollinations is also possible, albeit tedious. The fruit of "Moy Dulce 1" has a thin delicate, leather skin covering a yellow fruit not unlike a melon. Inside the fruit is a large cavity with many small seeds. The seeds are sometimes used as a pepper substitue, and are often used to adulterate black pepper. The seeds produced by the "Moy Dulce 1" are from a hybrid plant and will not bear true if planted. This variety produces large fruits of two to four pounds, the larger ones being borne closest to the ground. As the tree grows taller and older, the papayas at the top will be smaller. Fruit is sweeter when allowed to ripen on the tree, with 75-80% of the skin showing a yellow color. Under good conditions, the tree will produce two to four ripe papayas each week. Fruit will usually be ripe five months after setting. I have only the home phone number for the Botanical Society contact. I will not post that publicly without permission. For those interested in trying the Moy Dulce: To the best of my knowledge, seed has not been distributed to other than the Botanical Society and I don't believe that the Society is willing to ship plants. The plants are very fragile and would probably not ship well. As I recall, the price of the 1995 one gallon plants was $10 or $12. The fruit from my plants was very similair to what is sold in grocery stores as "Mexican" papaya. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diego Puron Subject: Acerola Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 18:51:52 -0600 Hallo: I am interested in acerola (Barbados cherry). I would like to grow in the Yucatan Peninsula. Do you know where i could get seeds or plants? Thanks for your help. Diego Puron ------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:11:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Rare Fruit From: Michael Gambill Count me in on your group. It sounds like a great idea. I grow several fruits. I live in Greenbrier, Arkansas so the outdoor fruit are for temperate climates but I grow several kinds of fruit in my greenhouse. I also travel back and forth to work with a medical clinic in Mexico. I have planted several trees there as well. I too am a member of CRFG. Another Fruit, Michael Gambill -------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:20:13 +1000 From: Brian White To: Leo Manuel Subject: Kensington Hi Leo Try these people for a Kensington Pride mango. If they can't help you, email me back. BIRDWOOD NURSERY Peter & Sandra Young 71-83 Blackall Range Road Nambour 4560. Wholesale growers of fully containerised bench grown tropical/sub-tropical fruit trees and vines including exotics. QDPI accredited soil pathogen free to all states and overseas. Ph: +61 754 421 611 Fax: +61 754 421 053 Mobile: +61 18 715 994 I have found that Kensingtons do not crop so well outside of the tropics, but here in SE Queensland, the crops are of a small number of large fruit. We ate our last here last week, and it was delicious. Worth crawling over broken glass for :) Things that make mangoes crop are reduced water, or low temperature. Ethylene will also induce flowering - in the wet tropics, this can be achieved by smoking the tree - ie burning the leaves that accumulate under the tree. Also, Alar (PP333 - paclobutrazol)- a growth substance may be used to induce flowering if all else fails. Cheers Brian. ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:54:57 +0000 Subject: Dwarf Mango? In a thread to a posting I made asking about dwarf mangos, there was this response: ...one variety that is somewhat "dwarfish" in its growing habits is "Julie." It doesn't do all that well in Florida, where the anthracnose is pretty hard on it. I've heard it does well in places like Jamaica, though. And, though small, the fruit is well liked. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - March 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 ------------------------------ There are several of you who grow rare fruit, but you havenÕt told us much about your experiences. Would you consider a topic for discussion the following: What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. HereÕs what you will find in the current issue: 1. Trudy, in Florida. What she grows and what sheÕd like to find. 2. Richard Burkett, San Diego, asking about Carrie mango. 3. LeoÕs reply to Richard. (Please send your opinion, as well.) 4. Don Gholston ask what your experience in growing Jackfruit. 5. Ian Staples clarifies mango name: Bowan - Bowen - Kensington Pride 6. Daniel K. Duprey likes Julie mango as a dwarf variety. 7. Ian raises an important question of seedlings of polyembronic mangoes. Leo hopes everyone who knows anything about this will respond, as it is a concern of his. 8. Robert G. Barbour may be looking for our newsletter? and... 9. Mario Lozano: ŌAcerolas do not produce well from seedlings....Ķ ----------------------------------- From: Trudy Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: Rare fruit I just came across this idea and I think it's great. I live in central Florida and grow citrus, guavas, surinam cherry, loquat, bananas, pineapples and I'm looking for tropical fruit seeds. Especially miracle fruit Thanks Trudy ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:26:39 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Burkett (San Diego) Subject: Re:Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 Leo, I checked with Pacific Tree farms the other day, asking about mangoes. They were currently out of the tree that they suggested as a relatively compact, fiber free mango - the variety "Carrie." They also mentioned "Julie" as a possibility, but that it might have more problem with disease. Anyone know more about the Carrie variety of mango? Is this indeed the best tree for the Southern California coastal areas? The Carrie variety will be in stock again in April, they say, and I'm looking forward to having mangoes. Thanks, Richard Burkett --------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 11:54:13 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Richard Burkett Carrie is great and one of the favorites in Florida. I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be very good here, as well. Florida's humidity causes more problems than we would experience, at least for some diseases. I'm going to be looking for a Carrie in the near future, for myself. I also expect that Julie would have fewer problems in San Diego than in Florida. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Message-ID: <970307131029_-1674046263@emout20.mail.aol.com> Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 Leo, Maybe some of the participants in Rare Fruit News Online in Florida (or elsewhere) have had experience in growing and fruiting Jackfruit. If so, I would like to hear about it. I am interested in cultural details, such as fertilizing, pruning, pests and diseases, etc. I am hoping to scare up enough first hand information on the fruit to write a piece for the Fruit Gardener as part of our Fruit of the Year: Mulberry. Yeah, I know Jackfruit is a bit of a stretch, but they are in the same family. Thanks and regards. Don Gholston ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 08:09:16 +0000 Subject: Dwarf Mango? From: Ian Staples (Rob Logie) writes: >The main wild mango here are the bowan mango. A bowan tree will >grow huge ! (>15 Meters high and wide). ... Just in nitpicking mode. :-) For "bowan" read "Bowen" -- the town in north Queensland [closer to the central coast in fact, for those aliens reaching for their atlases] where the variety was first popularised. It's now sold mostly under the name Kensington Pride, which may have been its official name at some earlier time before we Queenslanders knew it as the Bowen mango. > ... One I have is one from Vietnam grafted onto >a bowan stock. I think it is called a "Nam-Doc" (Nam-Doc-Mai)? >(I lost the card !) These grafted mango's are a >bit nicer than the bowen mango's. Now in *very* serious mode. :^) No one could *possibly* prefer another variety to the Bowen! (Kensington Pride)-- Clean your keyboard immediately, Rob. Cheers, Ian S. -------------------------------- Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? From: Daniel K. Duprey Date: 1997/02/24 Sorry, I didn't see the original posting, but one variety that is somewhat "dwarfish" in its growing habits is "Julie." It doesn't do all that well in Florida, where the anthracnose is pretty hard on it. I've heard it does well in places like Jamaica, though. And, though small, the fruit is well liked. Daniel K. Duprey ----------------------- Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? From: Ian Staples Date: 1997/02/19 Brian White writes: >Some mango trees do grow smaller than others. The main commercial >variety here in Australia is known as Kensington Pride. To my palate, >this variety is superior in every way to most others available here. We >get Carabao mangoes, and indian mangoes here from time to time, and none >can hold a candle to our mainstay variety. And I hope Rob Logie read this too! :-) >Its seeds are polyembryonic, of which only one embryo is usually the >result of sexual reproduction. The remaining embryos are usually >asexual - ie clones of the mother plant. The *big* question is, how do I know which is the one I don't want? Some folk say it's the biggest of the batch (which I could swallow, on the basis of hybrid vigour) and others say it's the runt. As one who can never win a raffle, and who invariably weeds out *all* the female pawpaw seedlings, this distinction is a serious matter. Cheers, Ian S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: Mario Lozano Please forward this message to Diego Puron: I understand that he is intersted in Acerola plants or seeds. Acerolas do not produce well from seedlings, often producing small inferior fruits. They are much better propagated by air layers or hardwood cuttings under mist. I have a lot (more than 300) Acerola plants, propagated from cuttings, in small pots, ready for shipping. They are from a very good variety, that I have growing on my yard. It produces numerous crops of very large mildly tart fruit, very good for eating out of hand or for making juice. If he is interested please E- Mail me at Cucho@aol.com Best Regards, Mario Lozano ------------------------------- From: Robert G. Barbour To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Rare Fruit Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:10:35 -0500 (EST) I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. 2. Detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Robert G. Barbour -------------------------- From: Mario Lozano To: leom@rarefruit.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) Please forward this message to Diego Puron: I understand that he is intersted in Acerola plants or seeds. Acerolas do not produce well from seedlings, often producing small inferior fruits. They are much better propagated by air layers or hardwood cuttings under mist. I have a lot (more than 300) Acerola plants, propagated from cuttings, in small pots, ready for shipping. They are from a very good variety, that I have growing on my yard. It produces numerous crops of very large mildly tart fruit, very good for eating out of hand or for making juice. If he is interested please E- Mail me at Cucho@aol.com Best Regards, Mario Lozano >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - March 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07 It was exciting and rewarding to put this issue together. The number of people on the mailing list is over three dozen, and growing. It has taken a lot more time, mostly because I keep re-reading the mail! Im beginning to neglect some of my garden tasks, so Ive got to go on some sort of computer-access-restricting diet. I need to revise my web page, to show that the proposed newsletter is now a fact. I dread the prospect of getting back into HTML. If you have suggestions for this newsletter, pass them on. If you want to answer questions that are raised, send the reply to me and Ill forward it. Unless you especially want your e-mail address published, I will remove it from the newsletters. If you want to receive back issues of Rare Fruit News Online, let me know. Also, if you have e-mail size limits, let me know what they are. This seventh issue of 1997 alone is about 78! Then there was 1996.... And, above all, when questions are asked, even if someone else has provided an opinion, send your opinion. Maybe your suggestions or answers will be the same as those given by someone else. There is comfort in numbers. Like going to a doctor for a second or third or ... opinion. Maybe your response will be different. Lets hear it. So far, the group seems congenial, and I expect that it will continue to be so. -- Its interesting to see the bloom cycle of the various deciduous fruit trees. Some have fruit as large as a hens egg while others of the same type are in full bloom, with fruit set coming later. In one case, both trees cited are nectarine, but its true for some peaches, as well. The fruit set for peach, plum, apricot, and nectarine seems higher this year. Thornless blackberries are beginning to bloom....What a perfect time of year! Leo ------------------------------------------- The contents of Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07: 1. Don Gholston and source for Hardy Kiwifruit Trellis 2. Richard Cline and deciduous fruit trees 3. Brian White, an introduction, and an offer for fruit information resources 4. Leo and a response to BrianÕs e-mail 5. Brian and additional information 6. Ed Gribble is home again 7. Oliver Patterson and a response to TrudyÕs request 8. Brian White and Miracle Fruit 9. LeoÕs brief response to Brian - Miracle Fruit 10. Abilio and seed information. Also JPGÕs (by request to Leo) 11. Daniel K. Duprey with questions about the newsletter 12. LeoÕs response to DanielÕs e-mail 13. Diane Chamberlain writes to Trudy and Robert Barbour 14. Bob Stone and a request to receive the newsletter 15. Bob Stone and responses to last newsletter 16. Bob Stone and information about his operation 17. Eddie munoz and questions: How to deal with water shortage? 18. LeoÕs response to Eddie, followed by additional information from Eddie 19. Paul Hagstedt with a request to receive the newsletters and a reply by Leo 20. Bob Stone and a lengthy response to items in all previous newsletters 21. Diane with additional information to Trudy 22. Bob Stone and enthusiasm for growing rare fruit and spreading the word 23. Trudy likes DianeÕs information. 24. Daniel Duprey considers a move to California - depending... 25. Leo responds to DanÕs questions. 26. What controls the Giant White Fly? A friend of mine needs to know 27. Jordi from Barcelona as a possible ŌsubscriberĶ 28. Raymond N. Gerlach is changing his e-mail address 29. Dick Gross retired in Phoenix: How do you handle seeds of black sapote? Dick discusses his seedling mango tree in Phoenix and asks to be on our mailing list. 31. David Rack becomes number forty on the mailing list of Rare Fruit Newsletter! 32. Moshe Nadler wrote in February, but I may not have included his letter earlier. Moshe is in Puerto Rico, with rare fruit credentials that are the envy of us all! He sends the name of a fellow agronomist for our list. (#41!) ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 >From Rare Fruit News 3/20/97 >I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. Your best bets at this point are: alt.agriculture.fruit or sci.agriculture.fruit >2. Some detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. >Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Our CRFG Fruit Fact on Hardy Kiwifruit that is part of the Fruit Fact section of our web site: http://www.crfg.org/ has information on such a trellis. If you haven't visited this site, you really should for all the other good stuff posted there. Don Gholston Californiia Rare Fruit Growers -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:36:32 -0800 From: Richard Cline Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. The same deciduous trees have done well for me. I have a Bosc pear that fruited the first two years after planting. Last year there was nothing. I'm still hopeful that it will produce 50% of the time. The fruit was large and flavorful. Asian Pears seem to bear fruit. However the varities I've encountered that grow vigorously seem to have poor flavor. Dick ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:00:21 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Rare Fruit Leo, by the way, my personal details. I am a 31 year old Ag scientist, living in Ipswich, Queensland Australia. The climate here is subtropical. I have been interested in rare fruits for years, and there are some excellent volumes on tropical fruit available from our state Department of Primary Industries (DPI). I would be happy to scan and send a booklist, if anyone is interested. My experience stems from a rare fruit orchard I planted in 1988 on my parents small farm outside of Brisbane. We have four varieties of lychees; longans; three varieties of pomello; limes; meyer lemons (my favourite lemon); four varieties of avocado (all guatemalan types; Kensington Pride, Common, R2E2 and Florigon mangoes; three varieties of carambolas; black sapotes; white sapotes; mandarins; bananas; pecan nuts; red mombins; mulberries; ice cream beans; tamarinds; and miracle fruit. Whew! This means that at any time of the year, we can wander through a little garden of eden and munch, munch, munch. Being a trivia and information hound, I have some truly excellent books also. You might like to visit my website on http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hewlett Cheers Brian White --------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:39:47 +0000 To: Brian Hello, Brian. Thanks for the offer to send the information on material on tropical fruit. I'm sure the information will be of interest so the other rare fruit growers on the list, and know that I am interested. I'd also be interested in knowing the names of the varieties of lychee, longan, etc., that you have. I also have an Ice Cream Bean tree, and what a rapid grower it is. It's in my front yard, and in the 5 years since I planted it, it's grown from maybe 5 feet tall to 20 feet or so. Also, it's begun to have beans, and I have to clean up around it periodically. It is a beautiful tree, though. The Kensington Pride mango is one I'm looking for, locally, if possible. I haven't heard of the R2E2 or Florigon mangoes. What's the fruit like from the red mombin? I did visit your interesting web site. Hoping to hear more from you! Leo ---------------------------------------- From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit Red mombin is a distant relative of the mango, and tastes fairly sour - a bit worse than an isabella grape, but with lots of mucilage and a big seed. I think they are pretty awful, but my mother loves them. No accounting for taste. R2E2 is like a mutant Kensington Pride, and is even better that that famous variety. It has almost no fibre, and the fruit tend to weigh 500g-1kg+. Excellent taste and texture. If you want a big bellyful of beautiful mango, then eat one of these. Developed by the Queensland DPI. Florigon is a US variety, suited to cooler climates. It is a later bearer, and should be a viable way of extending the mango season. Beautiful peach like flesh, but not such a prolific bearer here. I will contact the DPI and get them to send a current book list. I will scan the relevant pages and email to you as JPEG files. The Lychees we have are Kwai Mai Pink, Wai Chee, No Mai Chee, and Tai So. Wai Chee is the best performer here, and also my favourite lychee. The longan we have is possibly a seedling, and is a patchy bearer in Southern Queensland. We used to live in Cairns, North Queensland, 2000 km closer to the equator, and we had a lychee tree around 80 years old in our back yard. Every second year, we could collect around 200lb of fruit from this tree. Now that was paradise. Lychees and longans do play havoc with the digestive tract, when eaten in quantities like that, but hey, what a way to "go". I would have to say I would prefer to sit down to a few kg of lychees than an equivalent weight of prawns or lobster, any day. I forgot some fruit, when I made the list. We also have some muscat grapes and papayas - yellow and red varieties. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:39:14 -0800 From: Ed Subject: Home again Hi Leo, We have now returned from our trip to New Zealand-Australia after seven weeks, which is too long for one night stands-living out of a suitcase, but was enjoyable anyway. Saw a lot of tropical plants as you can imagine, particularly in Northern Australia around Darwin and Cairns. We returned to a yard full of weeds, which will occupy our time for a while, but also a yard in bloom. Everything it seems hardly missed us at all! My bananas all have new growth after the heavy rains and wind damage in January. My papayas look a little sad, but have new growth so believe they are OK. Some completely lost all their leaves, but the trunks remain green. The nursery man says not to worry since they sometimes do this, like plumeria will do, so will see. All the citrus are going great. Thanks again for including me in your e-mail. Ed --------------------------------------------- From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:45:00 -0500 Please forward this message, Leo: Hello Trudy, There is a club in central Florida called "The Tropical Fruit Club of Central Florida" that can provide you with plenty of miracle fruit seeds, as well as many other kinds of seeds. It holds a plant raffle at the end of every meeting, which is a cheap and easy way to obtain all kinds of tropical fruit trees. The club meets the third Monday of every month at Leu Gardens, which is near Winter Park in Orlando. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. and lasts for about two hours. I encourage you to check it out. If you have any questions about the club or tropical fruit growing in central Florida, please send me some e-mail (olliep@gate.net). I live a few miles north of Orlando and I grow all of the trees you mention except the Surinam cherry (I'm eager to get one). Sincerely, Oliver Patterson -------------------------------------- 20 Mar 1997 19:49:48 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:51:01 +1000 From: Brian White Thank you for your last email, always interesting to read about other people's experiences with growing and eating rare fruit. On everyone's list of memorable rare fruit experience should be the "miracle fruit" (Synsepalum dulcificum)of Ghana. Is this a new one on you guys, or can we compare miracle fruit taste alteration experiences? I know a lot about this little tree, and am just about to take this years harvest of about twenty or so berries, to amaze a few new people. This stuff changes your taste perception of acid foods, to make them taste sweet. A very source substance becomes just as intensely sweet. If you have ever wanted to sip vinegar like a fine port wine, then this is the fruit to taste. Enjoy grapefruit like never before. The subtle sour taste is converted to a subtle sweet musk, which certainly makes the humble grapefruit the king of all fruits. This is a tree worth building a greenhouse for - if you are unfortunate enough not to live in the tropics or subtropics. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:52:34 +0000 To: Brian White ... Years ago in Hawaii I got a taste of the miracle fruit, and it is appropriately named! I know it's grown in Florida, maybe in California. I haven't tried. Is it pretty slow growing? I'll be interested in what our feedback from readers is. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:36:09 +-100 Hello Leo and Hello every body I this moment the botanic subject that interesse mi is who i can arrange and buy tropical and exotic seeds and muds trees. In the last days i buy to the international seeds company this list of tropical seeds i dont know if they are good. 1705 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea - saman. 5 seeds $3.00 Sacred Japanese Cedar cryptomeria japonica. 5 seeds $2.00 1714 Baobab; Lemonade; Monkeybread Tree . 2 seeds $3.50 1774 Indian Arrowroot euonymus. 15 seeds $1.95 4503 Coffee Plant coffea arabica . 5 seeds $2.00 2203 Golden Yellow Papaya carica papaya . 10 seeds $1.95 2204 Paw Paw Tree asimina triloba . 3 seeds $2.00 2205 Mountain Papaya carica pubescens . 5 seeds $2.50 2209 Chinese Hackberry celtis sinensis . 10 seeds $2.00 2221 Macadamia Nut Tree intergrifolia. $0.95 per seed 2255 Chinese Jujube zizyphus . 5 seeds $1.95 2289 Hawiian Solo Papaya carcia . 6 seeds $1.95 2291 Waimanolo Papaya carica waimanolo . 6 seeds $1.95 2294 Horseradish Tree moringa . 5 seeds $1.95 G061 Black Pepper piper nigrum. 5 seeds $2.50 1107 Flowering Banana musa. . 5 seeds $3.00 1143 Seagrapes coccoloba uvilfera. . 5 seeds $1.95 H423 Indian Arrowroot euonymu. 15 seeds $1.95 CM220 Xi-Yang-Shen panax quinquefolia (ginseng). 10 seeds $2.50 NW26 Heavenly Bamboo nandina domestica. 10 seeds $1.50 9601 Indian Rosewood dalbergia latifolia. 5 seeds $3.00 9603 Mexican Blue Palm brahea armata. 5 seeds $3.00 9608 Sealing Wax Palm cyrtostachys lakka. 5 seeds $3.50 9611 Derris Robusta. 5 seeds $3.00 9612 Ylang Ylang Tree cananga odorata. 5 seeds $3.50 9613 Potato Tree solanum macranthum. 5 seeds $2.50 9615 Sacred Water Lily nelumbo nucifera. 3 seeds $2.50 9617 Perfume Flower Tree fagrea berteriana. 5 seeds $2.50 9619 Butterfly Tree bauhinia purpurea. 5 seeds $2.50 9637 Amazing Climbing Palm desmoncus schippii. 3 seeds $2.50 9638 Gooseberry Tree phyllanthus acidus. 5 seeds $2.50 9640 Gum Arabic acacia senegal . 3 seeds $2.50 P11 Silver Saw Palm acoelorrhaphe wrightii.10 seeds $2.25 P16 Queen Palm syagrus romanzoffiana. 10 seeds $2.25 P18 Traveller's Palm ravenalamad agascarie. 5 seeds $2.25 P20 Poneytail Palm beaucarnia strict. 5 seeds $2.25 P24 Butterfly Palm (Golden Cane Palm) areca lutescens. 10 seeds $2.25 P30 Parlor Palm neantha bella. 10 seeds $2.50 P41 Sabal Palmetto sabal palmetto. 10 seeds $2.25 P49 King Palm (Alexander Palm ) archontophoenix alexandrae. 10 seeds $2.25 P52 Jelly Palm butea capitata. 2 seeds $2.50 P60 Mexican Cycad dioon edule. 3 seeds $3.50 P63 Panama Hat Palm carludovica palmata. 5 seeds $2.50 P75 Mexican Fan Palm (Sky Duster) washington robusta. 10 seeds $2. 2911 Golden Rain Tree koelreuteria. 8 seeds $2.75 2914 African Tulip Tree spathodea. 20 seeds $1.95 2942 Elephant Ear Acacia acacia dunnii. 3 seeds $1.95 2970 South American Mahogany swietenia. 10 seeds $1.90 2980 Flame of the Forest delonix regia. 10 seeds $2.50 SO154 Cashew Nut anacardium. 3 seeds $2.50 SO173 Amazon Grape Tree myrciara. 2 seeds $2.75 SO350 Indian Banyan Tree ficus benghalensis. 8 seeds $2.50 SO488 Red Sandal Wood Tree adenanthera. 5 seeds $2.50 SO489 Candlenut Tree aleurites. 2 seeds $2.00 SO545 Gourd Tree cujete. 5 seeds $2.50 7821 Camphor Tree cinnamomum camphor. 8 seeds $1.95 VH562 Giant Pink Banana5 seeds $1.95 4598 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea saman. 5 seeds $3.00 I dont have talk because i dont have nothing important to speak but i follow atention yours mails. A nother hobby of me is to colect 19 century hander books manuals of tropical agriculture and exotic plants.Spanish,Portuguese,Brasilien,French,English. Is this mi botanical knowledge. I you want to know or see someting tell me. About Jack fruit see this: (Leos note: Several interesting graphic files attached. Ill forward them to anyone who emails a request to receive them.) -------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I was pleasantly surprised to receive Rare Fruit News Online. I'm a little curious about it. Was it a one-shot deal? Did you pull the postings from one source or several (I don't remember where I posted my own contribution)? If I want to reply to one of the postings in the newsletter, do I send my reply to you? Or to where? Are you doing this on your own? And is it very labor-intensive? Yours in year-around aestivation, Dan Duprey --------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:30:55 +0000 To: Daniel K. Duprey Dan, I got your name from a posting on mangoes, as I recall. It was a response to a question I had raised, probably, about what is known about dwarf mangoes. Maybe it was a response to a reply, discussing Bowen mangoes. I'm not sure, but I took a chance. It doesn't take any more work to send to more people. (There are almost 3 dozen names on the list so far. I started it last fall, believing there was a need. It will continue until you ask me to stop. If you reply to a posting, I'd like for you to send it to me. I'll immediately forward it, and put a copy into the folder of items for the next newsletter. There have been two letters sent per month this year. If you prefer that the reply NOT go out to everyone, I'll respect your wishes. I will send you a copy of the past issues, if you like. It would be easy to attach it to an e-mail, or copy into the e-mail. I'm doing it on my own, and it's not labor-intensive at all. So far, everyone seems to be friendly, with no flaming mail. Let me know if you want back issues. Leo -------------------------------- Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:27:09 -0500 From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Hi Leo, For Trudy, Do you know about the tropical fruit clubs in Florida? There are lots of them, they have regular meetings with rare fruit enthusiasts galore, have regular sales, most do newsletters, have members willing to share seeds, and bring you to a new level of rare fruit mania. There are quite a few, so if you let me know where in central Florida you live, I can let you know the closest one. For Robert Barbour, I don't know of any newsgroups solely for rare fruit, but there are 2 on fruit, including rare. They are: alt.agriculture.fruit & sci.agriculture.fruit There is also bionet.biology.tropical which is ALL biology of the tropics, but when there is info on rare fruit...... it's wonderful. Diane -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:13:59 PST From: Bob Stone Good morning- Diane Chamberlain suggested I write to you about your newsletter. We are both members of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council, in Manatee county, Florida. I would appreciate being added to your mail list. Bob Stone -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:21:06 PST From: Bob Stone Thank you for the prompt reply. I would like the back issues, but I am fairly new at this e-mail stuff. I don't know if I can receive attached files with Juno, so for the time being it would be best to send them in the body of the E-mail text. For Trudy. My miracle fruit is just showing flower buds. Seeds will be available when the fruit ripens. Because I don't know when to quit I have many more trees than I can set out in the ground, therefor, I have most of them in containers. I feel that I get fewer and smaller fruits as a result, but that is better than no fruit at all. For Don Gholston: The California Rare Fruit Growers society is on line at http://www.crfg.org - They have available information sheets called Fruit Facts, which you can access and print. The one on Jackfruit is two pages long and has bare bones information. More later, Bob --------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:12:20 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- Thank you for all of the back issues. I have printed them out so I can read them and perhaps make comments. I have been growing tropical fruits trees for nine or ten years. Most are in containers, since our lot is only 75 x 150 feet.. i have a greenhouse and a potting shed. At the beginning of winter I move as many one and two gallon pots as possible into the greenhouse on double decker shelves. When dangerously cold weather threatens I move as many 3,7,and 10 gallon plants as possible into the aisle. By stacking them I can store 100 pots there. The larger trees are laid down (stacked) on the ground, then covered with used window draperies rescued from a drapery shop dumpster. The drapes are clipped together at the seams with spring type clothespins. So far there has been a minimum of cold damage using this system. One thing I have learned is not to discard any tree that seems to be dead until at least three months after the freeze. It often takes that long for them to start sprouting new growth. Here comes the commercial; The Manatee Rare Fruit Council will have its annual tree sale on Sunday, May 18th, fom ten to four. It will be held at the Manatee Civic Center on Route 41 in Palmetto. Participating nurseries will bring over 3,000 trees, offering a wide selection. If someone needs more specific directions I can post them here on request. Bob Stone ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 From: Eddie munoz How far inland do you live? How often to you get winter frost/freezes? I live in Rainbow, Ca. on 20 acres. I wish to grow rare fruit as well as not so rare fruit but I am on water wells that are tied very, very much to the amount of rainfall we get in our area. (I have had to let trees die when we've had to import water via tanker trucks) Any info on how to get water in from a reliable source? Eddie munoz ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:37 PST To: Eddie Munos I live in Rancho Penasquitos (in the city of San Diego), maybe 7-8 miles inland. This particular location hasn't had frost during the 4 1/2 years I've lived here. A few blocks away, there will be, however. I can't think of anything to help in getting additional water. Twenty acres is a lot of land to water! My lot is about one-fourth of one acre. If you generate any gray water that can be collected and used, that could keep trees alive until more water is available. You have to be careful about what detergents, etc., go into the water, however. There are booklets available, I believe, dealing with the subject. Some trees can survive but lose their fruit in long dry spells. I'm thinking of sapote (white), in particular. Mulch, of course, can help, but you probably have done as much as possible in that vein. There is, or was, a mushroom growing operation someplace in the area that has a mushroom compost that is cheap or maybe even free. Rain collected from roof downspouts can be stored, but it takes a lot of storage space and doesn't last long. I'll circulate your letter to see if anyone has other ideas. It must be very frustrating! Leo ---------------------------------- From: Eddie munoz Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 Thanks for any help. I've tried the water district but it will cost an arm and a leg to get me connected to them and of course I have to pay the whole thing. It is frustrating since we use to live on 2/3 of an acre in Pico Rivera which is a suburb of Los Angeles and of course I never had to worry about water. I had success at times with papaya, mango, guavas, and banana as well as normal stuff like citrus and avocado. We use to get a lot of frost in my area as low as 25 degrees. Eddie munoz -------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:38:32 +0100 From: PAUL Hagstedt I am a lychee,annana, mamey sapote grower in South Florida.and a member of Tropical Fruit Growers of South Florida, visit my new site at lychee.com / I would be interested to be a part of your news group. Paul Hagstedt Thank you --------------------------------- To: Paul Hagstedt Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:38:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I wrote you once about ordering a lychee tree (Brewster) but haven't taken any further action, because I don't know how trees survive coming in with the severe quarantine check in California. Even if the tree is in the best of condition, if it is held for very long, it might not make it when planted. I will send you back issues of the newsletter, if you request it. Horticordially, Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Stone Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:10:19 PST Hi- I have finished reading all of the back material, and have some information on a few topics. Scott Marshall asked about Cherimoya. They grow at a higher altitude than the Sugar apple, and require some winter chill. That is why the Israelis hybridized them with the sugar apple to produce the Atemoya. I have had Cherimoyas old enough to flower, but they have not done so. I think it's too warm here in Bradenton, Florida, Zone 9. For Ed Griffin, about low chill Kiwis. If you are in Zone ten you may be near Ft.Myers. Contact the Caloosa Rare Fruit Exchange. They meet at the Extension Service building on Palm Beach Boulevard, route 80, west of I-75, exit 25. They should have the information you want, and you would benefit by joining. Roy Grear's nursery (35927 Chancey Rd. - Zephyrhills, FL 33541) has several low chill varieties of Kiwi, and may be able to supply you with what you need. I think your nameless fruit tree is an Imbe. I just checked mine, and the branches do grow in groups of three. The leaves are dark green and leathery in texture. They require male and female plants to produce heavily, but my female produces a few fruits by itself. What we need to do is to swap grafts. How are you at grafting? If these trees can be airlayered we could clone them and swap them. To Don Gholston - If you want the latest news on Jakfruit contact Fairchild Tropical Garden at 11935 Old Cutler Rd, Miami, FL, 35156 Phone 305 665-2844 Fax 305 665-8032. They have an ongoing research project on Jakfruit. They also are heavily into a study of Mango varieties, and have imported many new varieties. I have four small Jakfruit trees in containers. One has a fruit (male) about the size and shape of two joints of my little finger. There had been a smaller, round fruit, but it has fallen off. I suspect that was a female. To Robert Barbour - I can't locate the drawing, but the instructions said that Kiwis are such heavy bearers that the trellis must be very strong. They recommended 4x4 supports and 2x4 stringers. If anyone wants discriptive literature on tropical fruits, ask for Fruit Crops Fact Sheets at your friendly neighborhood Extension Service. Here's a list of the ones I have received from them ; Atemoya, Avocado, Avocado Propagation, Bananas, Black Sapote, Blueberry, Canistel, Carambola, Coconut, Eugenia Species, Fig, Guava, Jaboticaba, Chinese Jujube, Longan, Loquat, Lychee, Macadamia, Mamey Sapote, Mango, Mango Propagation, Papaya, Passionfruit, Persimmon, Pineapple, Sapodilla, Seagrape, Sugar Apple, Tamarind. Dooryard Fruits, Growing Fruit Crops in containers. Everyone should become familiar with the many rare fruit clubs. The two main ones are RARE FRUIT COUNCIL, INTERNATIONAL p o box 561914, MIAMI, fl 33256, AND CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, - THE FULLERTON AUDITORIUM, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, FULLERTON, CA 92634. They both have branches in their respective states. Contact the parent organization for the address of the chapter closest to you. If growing tropical fruits is new to you these clubs will be your best sources of information. Both parent clubs have seeds available to members. A number of my trees are seedlings from them, and many have fruited. Bob Stone ----------------------------------------- From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:19:31, -0500 For Trudy, The Tampa club's address is 313 Pruett Road, Seffner, FL 33584. The meeting place is north of I-4 before you get to 301, so Lakeland wouldn't be too far. I am a member of the Manatee club, and we meet in Palmetto, just north of Bradenton. If you can't attend any meetings, but just want a newsletter, the best is Miami's. I am the editor of the Manatee club's newsletter, and see most of the newsletters from around the state. Most of the newsletters are kind of newsy about what the individual clubs are doing. The Miami news is a magazine and most local clubs are chapters of the Miami club. The only drawbacks are that its focus is tropical and it costs $35 a year to be a member (and get their magazine) I can find out if the Tampa club has any Lakeland members, they probably do. If you are not going to focus on the sub-tropicals, but try mostly to do trees that can take the cold, then the more northerly clubs (like Tampa) have more info about that. Our Manatee club does a lot of talking about frost protection! One of the BEST magazines for a good price is the CRFG news. Even though it is California the information is great, it is pretty, and they have a great seed swap. Leo can brag about that publication! (Leo: ...and often does!) Let me know if you need more info. Diane --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:30:30 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- I'm so enthusiastic about tropical fruits that I take every opportunity to "spread the gospel". There are so many sources of information from which people can benefit that those of us who know some of the sources should make the information available. Keep up the good work. Bob ------------------------------------ From: Trudy Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Florida Clubs Thank you so much Diane. Seffner isn't that far. I may not get to every meeting if it's in the evening but at least I could make some of them. I'll check into it. Trudy ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I think what you're doing is great. And I'd be most grateful if you sent me a copy of the previous issues. By chance, are you in California? Some day I may get to the point where I can't handle Florida's humidity any more, but I never want to live where mangos don't grow....Are there parts of California where they grow well? --Dan Duprey -------------------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Duprey Yes, I live in San Diego, California, and there are places where mangos grow, but you have to learn about the micro-climates of the neighborhoods, and that isn't always easy. It's surprising that the rim of a coastal canyon, one which goes from inland to the coast, will drain frigid inland cold toward the coast, causing frost along the way. I lived in such an area before moving here. It was maybe 2 miles from the coast, near La Jolla, but winter cold could be as severe as 20 miles inland. Now, I'm about 8 miles from the coast, on a hill, and while some nearby areas get frost, I haven't in the 5 years I've been here. There are other locations with larger contiguous frost-free areas than mine. If you experience difficulties in receiving the large attachments, I will break them up and try again. Leo -------------------------------------- A friend, Don L Hickox wrote: Leo, I have a question concerning garden pests. The giant white fly is all over our yard. I've tried spraying commercial oil and soap mixtures without success. I've heard that there is a wasp that will fight these pests. I just purchased ladybugs and a beetle which are supposed to help. I also clip and dispose of the infected areas. Any tips? Take care, Don -- Don, Someone I talked to, who MAY know something about pest control, says there are several products - he mentioned three, that would help. Tempo, Pyrodon, and Maverick. He says that whichever you use should be mixed with a light horticultural oil, in the ratio of two tablespoons per gallon of spray. (I wish I could remember his name. He sprays grounds for weed and pest control for his job.) I hope you let me know what you learn. Our fruit newsgroup would like the information. This Mr. Moon may be able to buy products that we can't, because he has a commercial license. It's possible some of them aren't available for home gardeners. See you soon. Leo ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:16:10 -0700 From: Glenn Andrews Subject: hi there, Do you have any idea what would cause fruit drop on capulin cherry? My tree in the san fernando valley is flowering heavily, but after forming small fruits, most dry out and fall off before maturing. A friend in Santa Monica is having the same problem, even though he is in a much better climate area Thanks, Glenn Andrews ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:15:28 -0500 From: Raymond N. Gerlach Leo, I am in the process of moving all of my email. Would you please change my address in your directory so I don't miss any of your messages? I really enjoy your information. Thank you, Ray Gerlach ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:14:47 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Hi Leo and Betty: My name is Dick Gross retired in Phoenix from Unocal for 11 years. Your page is interesting. About 40 people around Phx have recently formed an Arizona chapter of the CRFG. I am the Sec. and put out a monthly club newsletter. My family moved to San Diego from Nebraska in 1936 and my Company transfered me to El Centro and then here in 1968. I built my own home in Paradise Hills in 1957 where I got my first taste for growing exotics on an ideal canyon lot. Here, I have a thirteen year old mango from seed which is now in full bloom in its fourth bearing year. The fruit is non-fiberous, has no formaldahyde flavor with seeds(non-viable) only an eighth of an inch thick. My inlaws still live in Chula Vista and we go there fairly frequent. Your idea is a good one but does it overlap functions of CRFG? While I have your audience, is there-do you know-any special handling for black sapote seed? Regards -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:46:03 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I consider myself mostly as a secretary receiving mail and forwarding it to the group of over three dozen growers of rare fruit. Your question about black sapote I will forward to the group and see what responses come back. I see no conflict in what this newsgroup does and anything going on with CRFG. I'd like to know more about your mango tree. What variety does it most resemble, in your estimation? It would be tempting to buy graftwood from you in June, if you are willing. I have several excellent seedlings, also. Do you want to be on the mailing list? There have been six "issues" this year, with the seventh due out April 1. Why don't I put you on and you let me know if you want to continue with it? You will be interested in knowing what group members have to say about black sapote seeds. I would guess that you would want to plant them pretty soon after removing them from the fruit, but they are so similar to persimmon, I believe, that maybe that precaution isn't necessary. I believe persimmon seeds maintain their viability for quite a while. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:13:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Thanks for your prompt reply, Leo. Conflict wasn't quite the word I had in mind, just innocent overlap. I would consider selling graftwood. Our club has made one failed attempt and I have killed several seedlings in my own attempts with no successes. I have one seedling about four months from graft size. Many of us here have had trouble maturing seedlings. I think we need to find some "wild" stock rather than Safeway "variety". My mango is about fourteen years old planted against block home with a Southern exposure. It takes our 115 degree heat without batting a leaf and went through an unusual December 29 degree freeze with only a dozen or so leaves burned near its 13 foot crown. I had a 150 watt flood on the ground beneath it, however. Do put me on the mailing list, and thank you. ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:52:46 -0500 (EST) From: David Rack I, too, am a grower of rare fruit. i live in Mar Vista and have about 68 fruit trees, vines and shrubs surrounding my house. I'd love to get involved in whatever activities you are planning. Please count me in. David --------------------------------- (Note: I think this one from Moshe may have slipped by me earlier) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:40:28 -0400 From: moshe nadler dear mr. leo! my name is moshe nadler. i'm the farm manager of fruits intl. inc. in puerto rico. we have 1500 acres of mangoes. we also have a small collection of litchi, rambutan, durian, abiu, jack fruit, etc. all of them are still in the nursery. i have a msc. degree from the hebrew univ. in jerusalem. (sub-tropical fruits). i'm interested in rare fruits and if i can buy more from you in order to have more rare fruits in our collection i will be very happy. i will also like to help you, if i can. please tell me is there is anything i can send from puerto rico to you. sincerely moshe ---------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:28:40 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Moshe Nadler I don't have anything to sell, but I am very interested in mangoes. Do you have Kensington Pride from Australia? It's a favorite there, and it is polyembronic, as well. I'd like to find a nursery who can ship into California. At least, I'd like to find seeds from Kensington Pride. I will publish your letter in my newsletter, and maybe someone will have information for you. Do you want to be on the mailing list? I hope so! What varieties of mangoes do you grow and what do you especially like? What about litchi (lychee)? Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 To: Moshe Dear Moshe, I just today realized I haven't heard from you as to whether you'd like to be on our Rare Fruit News Online mailing list. I'm hoping you'll say, yes. The newsletter began last fall, with just a few interested growers. Now, there are forty growers, mostly hobbiests, who send letters for me to forward among the others on the list. I will send you the newsletter that goes out tomorrow, and you can let me know if you want to continue with it. I hope you will stay in, as your experience and education sounds invaluable. Leo ---------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 From: Moshe Nadler dear leo! please add me to your list. please add also another agronomist who works in the same address, his name is: yair aron sincerely moshe ----------------------------------- >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - April 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07 It was exciting and rewarding to put this issue together. The number of people on the mailing list is over three dozen, and growing. It has taken a lot more time, mostly because I keep re-reading the mail! Im beginning to neglect some of my garden tasks, so Ive got to go on some sort of computer-access-restricting diet. I need to revise my web page, to show that the proposed newsletter is now a fact. I dread the prospect of getting back into HTML. If you have suggestions for this newsletter, pass them on. If you want to answer questions that are raised, send the reply to me and Ill forward it. Unless you especially want your e-mail address published, I will remove it from the newsletters. If you want to receive back issues of Rare Fruit News Online, let me know. Also, if you have e-mail size limits, let me know what they are. This seventh issue of 1997 alone is about 78! Then there was 1996.... And, above all, when questions are asked, even if someone else has provided an opinion, send your opinion. Maybe your suggestions or answers will be the same as those given by someone else. There is comfort in numbers. Like going to a doctor for a second or third or ... opinion. Maybe your response will be different. Lets hear it. So far, the group seems congenial, and I expect that it will continue to be so. -- Its interesting to see the bloom cycle of the various deciduous fruit trees. Some have fruit as large as a hens egg while others of the same type are in full bloom, with fruit set coming later. In one case, both trees cited are nectarine, but its true for some peaches, as well. The fruit set for peach, plum, apricot, and nectarine seems higher this year. Thornless blackberries are beginning to bloom....What a perfect time of year! Leo ------------------------------------------- The contents of Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07: 1. Don Gholston and source for Hardy Kiwifruit Trellis 2. Richard Cline and deciduous fruit trees 3. Brian White, an introduction, and an offer for fruit information resources 4. Leo and a response to BrianÕs e-mail 5. Brian and additional information 6. Ed Gribble is home again 7. Oliver Patterson and a response to TrudyÕs request 8. Brian White and Miracle Fruit 9. LeoÕs brief response to Brian - Miracle Fruit 10. Abilio and seed information. Also JPGÕs (by request to Leo) 11. Daniel K. Duprey with questions about the newsletter 12. LeoÕs response to DanielÕs e-mail 13. Diane Chamberlain writes to Trudy and Robert Barbour 14. Bob Stone and a request to receive the newsletter 15. Bob Stone and responses to last newsletter 16. Bob Stone and information about his operation 17. Eddie munoz and questions: How to deal with water shortage? 18. LeoÕs response to Eddie, followed by additional information from Eddie 19. Paul Hagstedt with a request to receive the newsletters and a reply by Leo 20. Bob Stone and a lengthy response to items in all previous newsletters 21. Diane with additional information to Trudy 22. Bob Stone and enthusiasm for growing rare fruit and spreading the word 23. Trudy likes DianeÕs information. 24. Daniel Duprey considers a move to California - depending... 25. Leo responds to DanÕs questions. 26. What controls the Giant White Fly? A friend of mine needs to know 27. Jordi from Barcelona as a possible ŌsubscriberĶ 28. Raymond N. Gerlach is changing his e-mail address 29. Dick Gross retired in Phoenix: How do you handle seeds of black sapote? Dick discusses his seedling mango tree in Phoenix and asks to be on our mailing list. 31. David Rack becomes number forty on the mailing list of Rare Fruit Newsletter! 32. Moshe Nadler wrote in February, but I may not have included his letter earlier. Moshe is in Puerto Rico, with rare fruit credentials that are the envy of us all! He sends the name of a fellow agronomist for our list. (#41!) ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 >From Rare Fruit News 3/20/97 >I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. Your best bets at this point are: alt.agriculture.fruit or sci.agriculture.fruit >2. Some detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. >Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Our CRFG Fruit Fact on Hardy Kiwifruit that is part of the Fruit Fact section of our web site: http://www.crfg.org/ has information on such a trellis. If you haven't visited this site, you really should for all the other good stuff posted there. Don Gholston Californiia Rare Fruit Growers -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:36:32 -0800 From: Richard Cline Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. The same deciduous trees have done well for me. I have a Bosc pear that fruited the first two years after planting. Last year there was nothing. I'm still hopeful that it will produce 50% of the time. The fruit was large and flavorful. Asian Pears seem to bear fruit. However the varities I've encountered that grow vigorously seem to have poor flavor. Dick ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:00:21 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Rare Fruit Leo, by the way, my personal details. I am a 31 year old Ag scientist, living in Ipswich, Queensland Australia. The climate here is subtropical. I have been interested in rare fruits for years, and there are some excellent volumes on tropical fruit available from our state Department of Primary Industries (DPI). I would be happy to scan and send a booklist, if anyone is interested. My experience stems from a rare fruit orchard I planted in 1988 on my parents small farm outside of Brisbane. We have four varieties of lychees; longans; three varieties of pomello; limes; meyer lemons (my favourite lemon); four varieties of avocado (all guatemalan types; Kensington Pride, Common, R2E2 and Florigon mangoes; three varieties of carambolas; black sapotes; white sapotes; mandarins; bananas; pecan nuts; red mombins; mulberries; ice cream beans; tamarinds; and miracle fruit. Whew! This means that at any time of the year, we can wander through a little garden of eden and munch, munch, munch. Being a trivia and information hound, I have some truly excellent books also. You might like to visit my website on http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hewlett Cheers Brian White --------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:39:47 +0000 To: Brian Hello, Brian. Thanks for the offer to send the information on material on tropical fruit. I'm sure the information will be of interest so the other rare fruit growers on the list, and know that I am interested. I'd also be interested in knowing the names of the varieties of lychee, longan, etc., that you have. I also have an Ice Cream Bean tree, and what a rapid grower it is. It's in my front yard, and in the 5 years since I planted it, it's grown from maybe 5 feet tall to 20 feet or so. Also, it's begun to have beans, and I have to clean up around it periodically. It is a beautiful tree, though. The Kensington Pride mango is one I'm looking for, locally, if possible. I haven't heard of the R2E2 or Florigon mangoes. What's the fruit like from the red mombin? I did visit your interesting web site. Hoping to hear more from you! Leo ---------------------------------------- From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit Red mombin is a distant relative of the mango, and tastes fairly sour - a bit worse than an isabella grape, but with lots of mucilage and a big seed. I think they are pretty awful, but my mother loves them. No accounting for taste. R2E2 is like a mutant Kensington Pride, and is even better that that famous variety. It has almost no fibre, and the fruit tend to weigh 500g-1kg+. Excellent taste and texture. If you want a big bellyful of beautiful mango, then eat one of these. Developed by the Queensland DPI. Florigon is a US variety, suited to cooler climates. It is a later bearer, and should be a viable way of extending the mango season. Beautiful peach like flesh, but not such a prolific bearer here. I will contact the DPI and get them to send a current book list. I will scan the relevant pages and email to you as JPEG files. The Lychees we have are Kwai Mai Pink, Wai Chee, No Mai Chee, and Tai So. Wai Chee is the best performer here, and also my favourite lychee. The longan we have is possibly a seedling, and is a patchy bearer in Southern Queensland. We used to live in Cairns, North Queensland, 2000 km closer to the equator, and we had a lychee tree around 80 years old in our back yard. Every second year, we could collect around 200lb of fruit from this tree. Now that was paradise. Lychees and longans do play havoc with the digestive tract, when eaten in quantities like that, but hey, what a way to "go". I would have to say I would prefer to sit down to a few kg of lychees than an equivalent weight of prawns or lobster, any day. I forgot some fruit, when I made the list. We also have some muscat grapes and papayas - yellow and red varieties. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:39:14 -0800 From: Ed Subject: Home again Hi Leo, We have now returned from our trip to New Zealand-Australia after seven weeks, which is too long for one night stands-living out of a suitcase, but was enjoyable anyway. Saw a lot of tropical plants as you can imagine, particularly in Northern Australia around Darwin and Cairns. We returned to a yard full of weeds, which will occupy our time for a while, but also a yard in bloom. Everything it seems hardly missed us at all! My bananas all have new growth after the heavy rains and wind damage in January. My papayas look a little sad, but have new growth so believe they are OK. Some completely lost all their leaves, but the trunks remain green. The nursery man says not to worry since they sometimes do this, like plumeria will do, so will see. All the citrus are going great. Thanks again for including me in your e-mail. Ed --------------------------------------------- From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:45:00 -0500 Please forward this message, Leo: Hello Trudy, There is a club in central Florida called "The Tropical Fruit Club of Central Florida" that can provide you with plenty of miracle fruit seeds, as well as many other kinds of seeds. It holds a plant raffle at the end of every meeting, which is a cheap and easy way to obtain all kinds of tropical fruit trees. The club meets the third Monday of every month at Leu Gardens, which is near Winter Park in Orlando. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. and lasts for about two hours. I encourage you to check it out. If you have any questions about the club or tropical fruit growing in central Florida, please send me some e-mail (olliep@gate.net). I live a few miles north of Orlando and I grow all of the trees you mention except the Surinam cherry (I'm eager to get one). Sincerely, Oliver Patterson -------------------------------------- 20 Mar 1997 19:49:48 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:51:01 +1000 From: Brian White Thank you for your last email, always interesting to read about other people's experiences with growing and eating rare fruit. On everyone's list of memorable rare fruit experience should be the "miracle fruit" (Synsepalum dulcificum)of Ghana. Is this a new one on you guys, or can we compare miracle fruit taste alteration experiences? I know a lot about this little tree, and am just about to take this years harvest of about twenty or so berries, to amaze a few new people. This stuff changes your taste perception of acid foods, to make them taste sweet. A very source substance becomes just as intensely sweet. If you have ever wanted to sip vinegar like a fine port wine, then this is the fruit to taste. Enjoy grapefruit like never before. The subtle sour taste is converted to a subtle sweet musk, which certainly makes the humble grapefruit the king of all fruits. This is a tree worth building a greenhouse for - if you are unfortunate enough not to live in the tropics or subtropics. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:52:34 +0000 To: Brian White ... Years ago in Hawaii I got a taste of the miracle fruit, and it is appropriately named! I know it's grown in Florida, maybe in California. I haven't tried. Is it pretty slow growing? I'll be interested in what our feedback from readers is. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:36:09 +-100 Hello Leo and Hello every body I this moment the botanic subject that interesse mi is who i can arrange and buy tropical and exotic seeds and muds trees. In the last days i buy to the international seeds company this list of tropical seeds i dont know if they are good. 1705 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea - saman. 5 seeds $3.00 Sacred Japanese Cedar cryptomeria japonica. 5 seeds $2.00 1714 Baobab; Lemonade; Monkeybread Tree . 2 seeds $3.50 1774 Indian Arrowroot euonymus. 15 seeds $1.95 4503 Coffee Plant coffea arabica . 5 seeds $2.00 2203 Golden Yellow Papaya carica papaya . 10 seeds $1.95 2204 Paw Paw Tree asimina triloba . 3 seeds $2.00 2205 Mountain Papaya carica pubescens . 5 seeds $2.50 2209 Chinese Hackberry celtis sinensis . 10 seeds $2.00 2221 Macadamia Nut Tree intergrifolia. $0.95 per seed 2255 Chinese Jujube zizyphus . 5 seeds $1.95 2289 Hawiian Solo Papaya carcia . 6 seeds $1.95 2291 Waimanolo Papaya carica waimanolo . 6 seeds $1.95 2294 Horseradish Tree moringa . 5 seeds $1.95 G061 Black Pepper piper nigrum. 5 seeds $2.50 1107 Flowering Banana musa. . 5 seeds $3.00 1143 Seagrapes coccoloba uvilfera. . 5 seeds $1.95 H423 Indian Arrowroot euonymu. 15 seeds $1.95 CM220 Xi-Yang-Shen panax quinquefolia (ginseng). 10 seeds $2.50 NW26 Heavenly Bamboo nandina domestica. 10 seeds $1.50 9601 Indian Rosewood dalbergia latifolia. 5 seeds $3.00 9603 Mexican Blue Palm brahea armata. 5 seeds $3.00 9608 Sealing Wax Palm cyrtostachys lakka. 5 seeds $3.50 9611 Derris Robusta. 5 seeds $3.00 9612 Ylang Ylang Tree cananga odorata. 5 seeds $3.50 9613 Potato Tree solanum macranthum. 5 seeds $2.50 9615 Sacred Water Lily nelumbo nucifera. 3 seeds $2.50 9617 Perfume Flower Tree fagrea berteriana. 5 seeds $2.50 9619 Butterfly Tree bauhinia purpurea. 5 seeds $2.50 9637 Amazing Climbing Palm desmoncus schippii. 3 seeds $2.50 9638 Gooseberry Tree phyllanthus acidus. 5 seeds $2.50 9640 Gum Arabic acacia senegal . 3 seeds $2.50 P11 Silver Saw Palm acoelorrhaphe wrightii.10 seeds $2.25 P16 Queen Palm syagrus romanzoffiana. 10 seeds $2.25 P18 Traveller's Palm ravenalamad agascarie. 5 seeds $2.25 P20 Poneytail Palm beaucarnia strict. 5 seeds $2.25 P24 Butterfly Palm (Golden Cane Palm) areca lutescens. 10 seeds $2.25 P30 Parlor Palm neantha bella. 10 seeds $2.50 P41 Sabal Palmetto sabal palmetto. 10 seeds $2.25 P49 King Palm (Alexander Palm ) archontophoenix alexandrae. 10 seeds $2.25 P52 Jelly Palm butea capitata. 2 seeds $2.50 P60 Mexican Cycad dioon edule. 3 seeds $3.50 P63 Panama Hat Palm carludovica palmata. 5 seeds $2.50 P75 Mexican Fan Palm (Sky Duster) washington robusta. 10 seeds $2. 2911 Golden Rain Tree koelreuteria. 8 seeds $2.75 2914 African Tulip Tree spathodea. 20 seeds $1.95 2942 Elephant Ear Acacia acacia dunnii. 3 seeds $1.95 2970 South American Mahogany swietenia. 10 seeds $1.90 2980 Flame of the Forest delonix regia. 10 seeds $2.50 SO154 Cashew Nut anacardium. 3 seeds $2.50 SO173 Amazon Grape Tree myrciara. 2 seeds $2.75 SO350 Indian Banyan Tree ficus benghalensis. 8 seeds $2.50 SO488 Red Sandal Wood Tree adenanthera. 5 seeds $2.50 SO489 Candlenut Tree aleurites. 2 seeds $2.00 SO545 Gourd Tree cujete. 5 seeds $2.50 7821 Camphor Tree cinnamomum camphor. 8 seeds $1.95 VH562 Giant Pink Banana5 seeds $1.95 4598 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea saman. 5 seeds $3.00 I dont have talk because i dont have nothing important to speak but i follow atention yours mails. A nother hobby of me is to colect 19 century hander books manuals of tropical agriculture and exotic plants.Spanish,Portuguese,Brasilien,French,English. Is this mi botanical knowledge. I you want to know or see someting tell me. About Jack fruit see this: (Leos note: Several interesting graphic files attached. Ill forward them to anyone who emails a request to receive them.) -------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I was pleasantly surprised to receive Rare Fruit News Online. I'm a little curious about it. Was it a one-shot deal? Did you pull the postings from one source or several (I don't remember where I posted my own contribution)? If I want to reply to one of the postings in the newsletter, do I send my reply to you? Or to where? Are you doing this on your own? And is it very labor-intensive? Yours in year-around aestivation, Dan Duprey --------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:30:55 +0000 To: Daniel K. Duprey Dan, I got your name from a posting on mangoes, as I recall. It was a response to a question I had raised, probably, about what is known about dwarf mangoes. Maybe it was a response to a reply, discussing Bowen mangoes. I'm not sure, but I took a chance. It doesn't take any more work to send to more people. (There are almost 3 dozen names on the list so far. I started it last fall, believing there was a need. It will continue until you ask me to stop. If you reply to a posting, I'd like for you to send it to me. I'll immediately forward it, and put a copy into the folder of items for the next newsletter. There have been two letters sent per month this year. If you prefer that the reply NOT go out to everyone, I'll respect your wishes. I will send you a copy of the past issues, if you like. It would be easy to attach it to an e-mail, or copy into the e-mail. I'm doing it on my own, and it's not labor-intensive at all. So far, everyone seems to be friendly, with no flaming mail. Let me know if you want back issues. Leo -------------------------------- Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:27:09 -0500 From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Hi Leo, For Trudy, Do you know about the tropical fruit clubs in Florida? There are lots of them, they have regular meetings with rare fruit enthusiasts galore, have regular sales, most do newsletters, have members willing to share seeds, and bring you to a new level of rare fruit mania. There are quite a few, so if you let me know where in central Florida you live, I can let you know the closest one. For Robert Barbour, I don't know of any newsgroups solely for rare fruit, but there are 2 on fruit, including rare. They are: alt.agriculture.fruit & sci.agriculture.fruit There is also bionet.biology.tropical which is ALL biology of the tropics, but when there is info on rare fruit...... it's wonderful. Diane -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:13:59 PST From: Bob Stone Good morning- Diane Chamberlain suggested I write to you about your newsletter. We are both members of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council, in Manatee county, Florida. I would appreciate being added to your mail list. Bob Stone -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:21:06 PST From: Bob Stone Thank you for the prompt reply. I would like the back issues, but I am fairly new at this e-mail stuff. I don't know if I can receive attached files with Juno, so for the time being it would be best to send them in the body of the E-mail text. For Trudy. My miracle fruit is just showing flower buds. Seeds will be available when the fruit ripens. Because I don't know when to quit I have many more trees than I can set out in the ground, therefor, I have most of them in containers. I feel that I get fewer and smaller fruits as a result, but that is better than no fruit at all. For Don Gholston: The California Rare Fruit Growers society is on line at http://www.crfg.org - They have available information sheets called Fruit Facts, which you can access and print. The one on Jackfruit is two pages long and has bare bones information. More later, Bob --------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:12:20 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- Thank you for all of the back issues. I have printed them out so I can read them and perhaps make comments. I have been growing tropical fruits trees for nine or ten years. Most are in containers, since our lot is only 75 x 150 feet.. i have a greenhouse and a potting shed. At the beginning of winter I move as many one and two gallon pots as possible into the greenhouse on double decker shelves. When dangerously cold weather threatens I move as many 3,7,and 10 gallon plants as possible into the aisle. By stacking them I can store 100 pots there. The larger trees are laid down (stacked) on the ground, then covered with used window draperies rescued from a drapery shop dumpster. The drapes are clipped together at the seams with spring type clothespins. So far there has been a minimum of cold damage using this system. One thing I have learned is not to discard any tree that seems to be dead until at least three months after the freeze. It often takes that long for them to start sprouting new growth. Here comes the commercial; The Manatee Rare Fruit Council will have its annual tree sale on Sunday, May 18th, fom ten to four. It will be held at the Manatee Civic Center on Route 41 in Palmetto. Participating nurseries will bring over 3,000 trees, offering a wide selection. If someone needs more specific directions I can post them here on request. Bob Stone ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 From: Eddie munoz How far inland do you live? How often to you get winter frost/freezes? I live in Rainbow, Ca. on 20 acres. I wish to grow rare fruit as well as not so rare fruit but I am on water wells that are tied very, very much to the amount of rainfall we get in our area. (I have had to let trees die when we've had to import water via tanker trucks) Any info on how to get water in from a reliable source? Eddie munoz ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:37 PST To: Eddie Munos I live in Rancho Penasquitos (in the city of San Diego), maybe 7-8 miles inland. This particular location hasn't had frost during the 4 1/2 years I've lived here. A few blocks away, there will be, however. I can't think of anything to help in getting additional water. Twenty acres is a lot of land to water! My lot is about one-fourth of one acre. If you generate any gray water that can be collected and used, that could keep trees alive until more water is available. You have to be careful about what detergents, etc., go into the water, however. There are booklets available, I believe, dealing with the subject. Some trees can survive but lose their fruit in long dry spells. I'm thinking of sapote (white), in particular. Mulch, of course, can help, but you probably have done as much as possible in that vein. There is, or was, a mushroom growing operation someplace in the area that has a mushroom compost that is cheap or maybe even free. Rain collected from roof downspouts can be stored, but it takes a lot of storage space and doesn't last long. I'll circulate your letter to see if anyone has other ideas. It must be very frustrating! Leo ---------------------------------- From: Eddie munoz Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 Thanks for any help. I've tried the water district but it will cost an arm and a leg to get me connected to them and of course I have to pay the whole thing. It is frustrating since we use to live on 2/3 of an acre in Pico Rivera which is a suburb of Los Angeles and of course I never had to worry about water. I had success at times with papaya, mango, guavas, and banana as well as normal stuff like citrus and avocado. We use to get a lot of frost in my area as low as 25 degrees. Eddie munoz -------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:38:32 +0100 From: PAUL Hagstedt I am a lychee,annana, mamey sapote grower in South Florida.and a member of Tropical Fruit Growers of South Florida, visit my new site at lychee.com / I would be interested to be a part of your news group. Paul Hagstedt Thank you --------------------------------- To: Paul Hagstedt Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:38:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I wrote you once about ordering a lychee tree (Brewster) but haven't taken any further action, because I don't know how trees survive coming in with the severe quarantine check in California. Even if the tree is in the best of condition, if it is held for very long, it might not make it when planted. I will send you back issues of the newsletter, if you request it. Horticordially, Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Stone Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:10:19 PST Hi- I have finished reading all of the back material, and have some information on a few topics. Scott Marshall asked about Cherimoya. They grow at a higher altitude than the Sugar apple, and require some winter chill. That is why the Israelis hybridized them with the sugar apple to produce the Atemoya. I have had Cherimoyas old enough to flower, but they have not done so. I think it's too warm here in Bradenton, Florida, Zone 9. For Ed Griffin, about low chill Kiwis. If you are in Zone ten you may be near Ft.Myers. Contact the Caloosa Rare Fruit Exchange. They meet at the Extension Service building on Palm Beach Boulevard, route 80, west of I-75, exit 25. They should have the information you want, and you would benefit by joining. Roy Grear's nursery (35927 Chancey Rd. - Zephyrhills, FL 33541) has several low chill varieties of Kiwi, and may be able to supply you with what you need. I think your nameless fruit tree is an Imbe. I just checked mine, and the branches do grow in groups of three. The leaves are dark green and leathery in texture. They require male and female plants to produce heavily, but my female produces a few fruits by itself. What we need to do is to swap grafts. How are you at grafting? If these trees can be airlayered we could clone them and swap them. To Don Gholston - If you want the latest news on Jakfruit contact Fairchild Tropical Garden at 11935 Old Cutler Rd, Miami, FL, 35156 Phone 305 665-2844 Fax 305 665-8032. They have an ongoing research project on Jakfruit. They also are heavily into a study of Mango varieties, and have imported many new varieties. I have four small Jakfruit trees in containers. One has a fruit (male) about the size and shape of two joints of my little finger. There had been a smaller, round fruit, but it has fallen off. I suspect that was a female. To Robert Barbour - I can't locate the drawing, but the instructions said that Kiwis are such heavy bearers that the trellis must be very strong. They recommended 4x4 supports and 2x4 stringers. If anyone wants discriptive literature on tropical fruits, ask for Fruit Crops Fact Sheets at your friendly neighborhood Extension Service. Here's a list of the ones I have received from them ; Atemoya, Avocado, Avocado Propagation, Bananas, Black Sapote, Blueberry, Canistel, Carambola, Coconut, Eugenia Species, Fig, Guava, Jaboticaba, Chinese Jujube, Longan, Loquat, Lychee, Macadamia, Mamey Sapote, Mango, Mango Propagation, Papaya, Passionfruit, Persimmon, Pineapple, Sapodilla, Seagrape, Sugar Apple, Tamarind. Dooryard Fruits, Growing Fruit Crops in containers. Everyone should become familiar with the many rare fruit clubs. The two main ones are RARE FRUIT COUNCIL, INTERNATIONAL p o box 561914, MIAMI, fl 33256, AND CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, - THE FULLERTON AUDITORIUM, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, FULLERTON, CA 92634. They both have branches in their respective states. Contact the parent organization for the address of the chapter closest to you. If growing tropical fruits is new to you these clubs will be your best sources of information. Both parent clubs have seeds available to members. A number of my trees are seedlings from them, and many have fruited. Bob Stone ----------------------------------------- From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:19:31, -0500 For Trudy, The Tampa club's address is 313 Pruett Road, Seffner, FL 33584. The meeting place is north of I-4 before you get to 301, so Lakeland wouldn't be too far. I am a member of the Manatee club, and we meet in Palmetto, just north of Bradenton. If you can't attend any meetings, but just want a newsletter, the best is Miami's. I am the editor of the Manatee club's newsletter, and see most of the newsletters from around the state. Most of the newsletters are kind of newsy about what the individual clubs are doing. The Miami news is a magazine and most local clubs are chapters of the Miami club. The only drawbacks are that its focus is tropical and it costs $35 a year to be a member (and get their magazine) I can find out if the Tampa club has any Lakeland members, they probably do. If you are not going to focus on the sub-tropicals, but try mostly to do trees that can take the cold, then the more northerly clubs (like Tampa) have more info about that. Our Manatee club does a lot of talking about frost protection! One of the BEST magazines for a good price is the CRFG news. Even though it is California the information is great, it is pretty, and they have a great seed swap. Leo can brag about that publication! (Leo: ...and often does!) Let me know if you need more info. Diane --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:30:30 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- I'm so enthusiastic about tropical fruits that I take every opportunity to "spread the gospel". There are so many sources of information from which people can benefit that those of us who know some of the sources should make the information available. Keep up the good work. Bob ------------------------------------ From: Trudy Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Florida Clubs Thank you so much Diane. Seffner isn't that far. I may not get to every meeting if it's in the evening but at least I could make some of them. I'll check into it. Trudy ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I think what you're doing is great. And I'd be most grateful if you sent me a copy of the previous issues. By chance, are you in California? Some day I may get to the point where I can't handle Florida's humidity any more, but I never want to live where mangos don't grow....Are there parts of California where they grow well? --Dan Duprey -------------------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Duprey Yes, I live in San Diego, California, and there are places where mangos grow, but you have to learn about the micro-climates of the neighborhoods, and that isn't always easy. It's surprising that the rim of a coastal canyon, one which goes from inland to the coast, will drain frigid inland cold toward the coast, causing frost along the way. I lived in such an area before moving here. It was maybe 2 miles from the coast, near La Jolla, but winter cold could be as severe as 20 miles inland. Now, I'm about 8 miles from the coast, on a hill, and while some nearby areas get frost, I haven't in the 5 years I've been here. There are other locations with larger contiguous frost-free areas than mine. If you experience difficulties in receiving the large attachments, I will break them up and try again. Leo -------------------------------------- A friend, Don L Hickox wrote: Leo, I have a question concerning garden pests. The giant white fly is all over our yard. I've tried spraying commercial oil and soap mixtures without success. I've heard that there is a wasp that will fight these pests. I just purchased ladybugs and a beetle which are supposed to help. I also clip and dispose of the infected areas. Any tips? Take care, Don -- Don, Someone I talked to, who MAY know something about pest control, says there are several products - he mentioned three, that would help. Tempo, Pyrodon, and Maverick. He says that whichever you use should be mixed with a light horticultural oil, in the ratio of two tablespoons per gallon of spray. (I wish I could remember his name. He sprays grounds for weed and pest control for his job.) I hope you let me know what you learn. Our fruit newsgroup would like the information. This Mr. Moon may be able to buy products that we can't, because he has a commercial license. It's possible some of them aren't available for home gardeners. See you soon. Leo ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:16:10 -0700 From: Glenn Andrews Subject: hi there, Do you have any idea what would cause fruit drop on capulin cherry? My tree in the san fernando valley is flowering heavily, but after forming small fruits, most dry out and fall off before maturing. A friend in Santa Monica is having the same problem, even though he is in a much better climate area Thanks, Glenn Andrews ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:15:28 -0500 From: Raymond N. Gerlach Leo, I am in the process of moving all of my email. Would you please change my address in your directory so I don't miss any of your messages? I really enjoy your information. Thank you, Ray Gerlach ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:14:47 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Hi Leo and Betty: My name is Dick Gross retired in Phoenix from Unocal for 11 years. Your page is interesting. About 40 people around Phx have recently formed an Arizona chapter of the CRFG. I am the Sec. and put out a monthly club newsletter. My family moved to San Diego from Nebraska in 1936 and my Company transfered me to El Centro and then here in 1968. I built my own home in Paradise Hills in 1957 where I got my first taste for growing exotics on an ideal canyon lot. Here, I have a thirteen year old mango from seed which is now in full bloom in its fourth bearing year. The fruit is non-fiberous, has no formaldahyde flavor with seeds(non-viable) only an eighth of an inch thick. My inlaws still live in Chula Vista and we go there fairly frequent. Your idea is a good one but does it overlap functions of CRFG? While I have your audience, is there-do you know-any special handling for black sapote seed? Regards -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:46:03 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I consider myself mostly as a secretary receiving mail and forwarding it to the group of over three dozen growers of rare fruit. Your question about black sapote I will forward to the group and see what responses come back. I see no conflict in what this newsgroup does and anything going on with CRFG. I'd like to know more about your mango tree. What variety does it most resemble, in your estimation? It would be tempting to buy graftwood from you in June, if you are willing. I have several excellent seedlings, also. Do you want to be on the mailing list? There have been six "issues" this year, with the seventh due out April 1. Why don't I put you on and you let me know if you want to continue with it? You will be interested in knowing what group members have to say about black sapote seeds. I would guess that you would want to plant them pretty soon after removing them from the fruit, but they are so similar to persimmon, I believe, that maybe that precaution isn't necessary. I believe persimmon seeds maintain their viability for quite a while. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:13:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Thanks for your prompt reply, Leo. Conflict wasn't quite the word I had in mind, just innocent overlap. I would consider selling graftwood. Our club has made one failed attempt and I have killed several seedlings in my own attempts with no successes. I have one seedling about four months from graft size. Many of us here have had trouble maturing seedlings. I think we need to find some "wild" stock rather than Safeway "variety". My mango is about fourteen years old planted against block home with a Southern exposure. It takes our 115 degree heat without batting a leaf and went through an unusual December 29 degree freeze with only a dozen or so leaves burned near its 13 foot crown. I had a 150 watt flood on the ground beneath it, however. Do put me on the mailing list, and thank you. ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:52:46 -0500 (EST) From: David Rack I, too, am a grower of rare fruit. i live in Mar Vista and have about 68 fruit trees, vines and shrubs surrounding my house. I'd love to get involved in whatever activities you are planning. Please count me in. David --------------------------------- (Note: I think this one from Moshe may have slipped by me earlier) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:40:28 -0400 From: moshe nadler dear mr. leo! my name is moshe nadler. i'm the farm manager of fruits intl. inc. in puerto rico. we have 1500 acres of mangoes. we also have a small collection of litchi, rambutan, durian, abiu, jack fruit, etc. all of them are still in the nursery. i have a msc. degree from the hebrew univ. in jerusalem. (sub-tropical fruits). i'm interested in rare fruits and if i can buy more from you in order to have more rare fruits in our collection i will be very happy. i will also like to help you, if i can. please tell me is there is anything i can send from puerto rico to you. sincerely moshe ---------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:28:40 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Moshe Nadler I don't have anything to sell, but I am very interested in mangoes. Do you have Kensington Pride from Australia? It's a favorite there, and it is polyembronic, as well. I'd like to find a nursery who can ship into California. At least, I'd like to find seeds from Kensington Pride. I will publish your letter in my newsletter, and maybe someone will have information for you. Do you want to be on the mailing list? I hope so! What varieties of mangoes do you grow and what do you especially like? What about litchi (lychee)? Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 To: Moshe Dear Moshe, I just today realized I haven't heard from you as to whether you'd like to be on our Rare Fruit News Online mailing list. I'm hoping you'll say, yes. The newsletter began last fall, with just a few interested growers. Now, there are forty growers, mostly hobbiests, who send letters for me to forward among the others on the list. I will send you the newsletter that goes out tomorrow, and you can let me know if you want to continue with it. I hope you will stay in, as your experience and education sounds invaluable. Leo ---------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 From: Moshe Nadler dear leo! please add me to your list. please add also another agronomist who works in the same address, his name is: yair aron sincerely moshe >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - April 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 05/01/97 09 I expect almost everyone got two copies of the last newsletter. When some hadn't received it the day after I posted it, I assumed it was lost. I'll wait longer next time. You know that I have been mailing these on or near the first and fifteenth of each month, in 1997. If after you don't receive it within two or three days, send a message, and I'll post it again. There are more than sixty subscribers now. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:59:46 -0400 From: Bill Lady Dear Leo: Regarding the Surinam cherry, these are very common all over the S.E. Florida area, and someone should be able to supply seeds from there. They are commonly a small bush, and are sometimes used as a hedge. Apparently they will survive in very poor sandy soil without fertilizer or any special attention, but I am sure they would do better with some care. I have also seen a Barbados cherry bush in Miami. I haven't seen a single Surinam cherry plant in my Punta Gorda/Pt. Charlotte area for some reason, and they are not sold in any of the local nurseries or stores. Best regards, Bill Lady -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:45:19 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Dear Leo I was certainly pleased to get the twenty pages of correspondence on line and appreciate being on your mailing list. I did not read everything yet, but sampled the fare. I had one comment about the statement that a Capulin cherry would be preferred to a bing cherry. About 1981 we went on a trip to Ecuador which included a tour of a Capulin Cherry orchard picked out by the local extension service. I sampled more than a dozen of the trees and concluded they were all seedlings. The seeds from the ones that tasted good were spit into a ziplock bag, brought back home and planted out in DeLuz. Two years from the date of spitting I had about 30 trees growing in the ground, some of them with four inch diameter trunks. (I think we maybe should be looking at these as a source of cherry wood) The next year they were all bearing. Anyway I sampled all of the fruit. Some were much better than others, but to some degree all of the fruit had what I would call a wild taste -- and I would not have purchased any of them in preference to a bing cherry. Camp Pendleton generated a fire in 1985 which burned the whole grove, and everything else on the place. The trees were not all immediately killed and in fact I think a few of them still live -- but they are not watered. I needed a couple of trees over in another area so I planted a couple of the seeds from the first bunch, and these two now have fruit that generally resemble about the average of the 30 trees fruit. We do harvest the crop from the two trees most years and I still would not recommend eating them as picked. However, when made into a pie, or jam or any other kind of processed cherry the wild taste disappears and they are quite good -- perhaps equivalent to a good sour cherry, although they are not sour. Personally I am more interested in the Nanking cherry, Prunus tomentosa and have several of these in the backyard -- all seedlings. The fruit are bright red like a maraschino cherry, but less sweet than a sweet cherry. This means you can keep them in the refrigerator for a couple of weeks -- long after a sweet cherry would have spoiled -- and they are still good. I gather most people look on the Nanking cherry as some sort of rootstock or something. However, the four plants I have are each distinct and one of them has a very good taste. They also vary in productivity. So a little work on choosing a variety in this fruit might pay off. I might add that I pick the Nanking cherries ripe and usually have a bluejay scolding me from just out of reach. However, I have a Capulin cherry in the back yard right next to them that was a selected variety from Judge Vincent and I never even get to taste those. The birds eat them all up well before they get ripe. Both of these are growing on the north side of the hill mostly in shade and crowded by some other trees and bushes so I think these tropical cherries might easily be a good tree to consider for a low quality spot in the yard. The Nankin cherry is just a bush and does not require much space. I think your experiment in publishing is very interesting and I like the idea of seeing a digest on a periodic publication. I would rather have this than a deluge of day to day information. By the way for references, I was glad to have the tropical ecological farm site. I think highly of the one put out by ECHO which was at http://www.xc.org/echo the last I tried. You might want to check me before listing. Domestic readers get the feeling of being eavesdroppers. It is supposed to be for underdeveloped countries. Bob Chambers ----------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:57:20 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: robertchambers@sprintmail.com Bob, it's hard to argue when someone says A tastes better than B, when you know that to your own tastes it's exactly the opposite. I like the taste of durian, buttermilk, and several other foods that many people don't care for at all, or even actively dislike. Thanks for sending the website information. Your cherry comments are interesting, and you reminded me of the fruit of Prunus Tomentosa. I used to raise the bushes to use as rootstock for peach, plum, and nectarine. Worked very well, but suckered like crazy. You'd have little rootstock babies coming by the dozens. Anyway, the fruit of Prunus Tomentosa is nice, but the climate where I lived near the beach was not suitable for much of a crop. I should try it again... Capulin grows extremely fast and becomes pretty tall. I keep mine pruned severely, to put bird nets over the trees. Birds will clean me out, otherwise. Some trees have pretty decent-tasting fruit, but I've sampled some at CRFG meetings that were "edible but not eatable" as Paul Thomson has said. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:27:31 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Dear Leo I certainly agree with your comments on tasting. The one thing I have noticed is that some people are quite sensitive to bitterness -- Clytia is and I am not. On the other hand I am very sensitive to things that are spicy -- picante that is and Clytia is not. Bob ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:42:00 PST From: Robert Stone Hi- There are two upcoming events in Florida (in addition to our tree sale): Fruit and Spice Park is holding a three day seminar in July. I went to the last one and thoroughly enjoyed it. I will try to get exact details for you. Selby Botanical Garden in Sarasota will have their third one day tropical fruit seminar on August 23rd. It is not as elaborate as the other one, but is is well attended. I'll get exact info on it, too. I am involved with managing the tenth fruit tree sale for the Manatee Rare Fruit Council. Getting it ready takes a little time, but it goes well because we get good member response. We will have six commercial nurseries and several club members supplying plants I always order 5,000 sales tags, and have usually sent at least 3500 and as many as 4200 sale tags to those bringing plants. We charge the vendors and club members 20% of their sales price. Tampa gets 50% at their sale! I notice my friend Norm Rohrabaugh has signed up. He will have a lot to contribute. Keep up the good work, Bob ---------------------------------------- Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:05:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Trudy Eagan Subject: Re: Surinam Cherry: Need help in finding sources, please... To Monalisa, I think Ga. will prove much too far north unless you can keep your surinam cherry in a pot. I have a surinam cherry bush that is usually loaded with great tasting lobed red cherries. Unfortunately it takes only one freeze to prevent the crop. Such has happened for the last two years. I do have one cherry I will pick and slowly savor tomorrow and hope for a freezeless winter next year. And I will pot up one of my smaller trees so I won't have to do without again. I can probably locate some seeds for you if you don't find them somewhere else. Trudy in central Florida ---------------------------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:01:52 -0400 ... I wonder how well Surinam cherries can take Georgia freezes, but I am the last one to discourage someone from growing fruits. She might want to consider frost-protection, though. Oliver Patterson ---------------------------------------- At 08:54 PM 4/11/97 +0000 From: Duke Hoang Hi I am living in San Jose, CA. I would like to grow Sugar Apple, but I can not find the specific information about sugar apple. I would appreciate if you give me any informtion. Duke --------------- Hi, Duke: I believe Sugar Apples don't grow outdoors anywhere in California, and only in the most tropical parts of Florida, in this country. They are a (distant, I expect) relative of paw-paws that do grow in lots of places, and of cherimoas, that will thrive in nearly frost-free regions, as where I live, but not outdoors in San Jose. I suggest you look at the webpage for CRFG: http://crfg.org/ and follow the leads you find there. I'd like to ask why you especially want to grow the Sugar Apple? Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:48:26 -0700 From: Duke Hoang Hi Leo Thank you very much for your email. I like Sugar Apple because 2 years ago I had travelled in Thai-Land, Viet Nam and I liked the fruit. Came back to US I grow and eat Cherimoas but the taste is different. I plan to grow Sugar-Apple in a container and move it to the green house in the winter. Do you think it will work? Duke. ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:03:06 -0700 From: Duke Hoang Leo, I will try to plant seed this year. But I have very lack information about sugar-apple if you know any good source please let me know. Thank you very much. More: My green house is about 8 feet in height, I think I can leave it in there for the first 5 years. I will keep in touch with you and learn more about tropical fruit trees. (I am just a beginner.) Duke ------------- Duke, I know people do what was thought to be impossible frequently, especially with regard to rare fruit. I haven't tried, but with a greenhouse, it should work. Can you just leave it in the greenhouse year around? Please let me know how it goes. You should be able to get seeds from CRFG's seed bank. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:37:36 +0000 From: Don Hickox Subject: Whitefly Control Encarsia Formosa is a wasp for smaller whitefly Delphastrus pusillus - a beetle for the giant whitefly, available now. It's a new control, available around July '97, for giant whitefly, supposedly superior. Don ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:21:55 +0000 Subject: Florida Growings-On In July Bob Stone says: Leo: I just phoned Fruit and Spice Park in Homestead, Florida. It has 25 acres devoted to tropical fruits. They have scheduled a three day seminar July 11, 12, and 13. There will be talks by tropical fruit experts, visits to private and public collections, fruit tasting, and mango madness, where at least SIXTY varieties will be available for tasting. Wouldn't you like to cover it for the Fruit Gardener magazine? It would be a great place to spend a part of your annual vacation. Your interested subscribers can contact the park and get a flyer explaining the whole thing: Address: 24801 S. W. 187th Ave. Homestead, FL 33031 Phone: 305 247-5727 Fax 305 245-3369 Bob ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:07:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" Hi, Leo: I have no problem with your leaving my email address in, and in some cases it would indeed be handy to be able reply directly to others in the newsletter, especially if they live nearby, so share growing conditions. Yes, a carbon copy to the newsletter would be appropriate, unless it was a really esoteric point. If you got overloaded with "carbon copies" you could ask us to not bother... ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" For Richard Cole -- Do you have an atemoya that bears fruit. Mine has been in the ground for three years, and flowered last year, and is flowering now. I'm wondering if I would need to hand pollinate it to get fruit. I've asked several people locally (I'm in Lake Worth, near W. Palm Beach, Florida), and have gotten contradictory answers. I'm not very patient or dextrous* so if it won't bear without hand pollination, I'll be tempted to pull it out and squeeze in another mango tree..... --Dan Duprey *e.g. after several classes on grafting, my success rate is still a perfect zero percent. ---------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 19:54 PDT From: Leo Manuel To: "Daniel K. Duprey" Dan, For what it's worth on the West Coast: I know of at least two people who get atemoyas to fruit without hand pollination, but I, and many other growers, get few if any. What is the name of the atemoya? I had African Pride (also called Kaller, I believe.) that never set fruit unless I hand pollinated it. Hand pollination isn't too difficult, though. I collect pollen, using a pill bottle and an artist brush, from flowers wide open. Then I look for flowers just starting to open to pollinate. Sometimes they don't sync too well, but you can save the pollen in the fridge overnight and apply the next morning. I'd close the pill bottle tightly, before storing it. I usually do the job too well, and have more fruit than the tree should bear. What have you tried to graft? Apples are the easiest, mangoes much more difficult. The season you do it matters here. I can successfully graft mangoes in June and July, but even then have failures in probably 25% of the time. White Sapote seems to be easiest in March, but even then I have had a low success rate. Leo ------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" When you said you end up with more fruit than the tree should bear, you tempted me into possibly trying hand pollination on my Gefner. It's still a small tree (for one thing, it refuses to send any branches upward toward the sky), and doesn't have all that many blossoms. I'm wondering if there is more than one chance to pollinate a particular blossom. Is a blossom receptive for a few hours, or a few days, or??? --Dan ------------ Subject: Re: Hand pollination From: Leo Manuel To: "Daniel K. Duprey" Dan, my understanding is that the length of time varies from one variety to another, but that it's never more than a few hours. Some seem to favor being receptive in the early morning and others later in the evening. You may need another annona for cross-pollination, since the atemoya is a hybrid, but I don't know for sure. I have several cherimoya, atemoya and hybrid trees of uncertain parentage. For several years, I will keep the trees pruned so I can reach the limbs to hand-pollinate from the ground. Fortunately, most blooms seem to be in the lower part of the tree. Eventually some blooms will be out of reach, but you'll get enough fruit from the lower branches anyway. Leo -------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 05:39:02 -0700 From: Therese Long We are Robert and Therese Long of Santee, California. We grow: Guavas (multiple varieties), Banana, Ingas, Pithecellobium dulce, sapote, Papino dulce, and a few others..most are young seedlings (we're new at this). We would like to grow: Herbert River Cherry (Australian), Mamey sapote, Chico, Pawpaw (Asimina triloba), and anything unusual and tasty we can obtain. ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:36:18 -0700 From: Duke Hoang Subject: Paw paw (Readers, help find paw-paw trees, please!) Hello Leo After read your email I do a research about Paw paw and I decide to grow 2 Paw-paw trees. I go to some big local nursery but they don't have the cultivars I want. Do you know who's carry Wells and Taylor. Thank you very much. I just seeded Sugar-apple last Sunday. I will keeping in touch with you and let you know how it's going on. Talk to you later. Duke ---------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Subject: Peachs trees Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:58:20 +-200 Hello. As you know the peachs trees aren't a tropical tree. They grow well in Portugal and in south Europe. They need good sunlight in spring and in summer (April to September) warm, little air humidity and some moisture in the soil (rich sunny soil) with good drainage. They need to have a time to hibernate in autumn and winter (October to March) when all leaves have fallen, make cold and the sun light is smaller and rain. But for fruit it is must important and indispensable to have a significant pruning in winter, all suckers (small or medium branch that grow vigorously in the vertical or on the inside of the tree). If you don't prune, they don't bear or will give only small fruits. The fruit thinning has the same importance, so that you dont rapidly exhaust the fruit-bearing branch. (Leave one fruit 10 cm to 10 cm, don't permit the tree to grow bunches of fruit). Leave only approximadly one or two flower bud in each branch (or leaf bud) that you cut. This seems complicated but it's because my English isn't good. Yours sincerely Abilio Garcia [Abilio sent a fairly large graphic of pruning peach trees. I'll forward it to anyone who requests it.] ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 21:51 PDT From: Joel A Moskowitz aka SherHoudin@AOL.com Subject: Receiving information about rare fruit and sharing experiences re same As a member of the San Diego branch of the California Rare Fruit Growers, I noticed a reference in our newsletter about some e-mail distribution that you operate. What are the parameters and do you welcome others to join. Please advise. Joel A Moskowitz aka SherHoudin@AOL.com ------------ Joel, I send out the Rare Fruit News Online twice each month to a group of rare fruit growers. The mail I send is what they each have sent to me and I forward it to all of the rest. I will send a copy of the last issue (April 15) and put you on the mailing list. What do you grow? Have you been in San Diego very long? If you do NOT want to continue to receive the newsletter, let me know. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:52:38 -0700 From: Dennis I am purchasing a house in northern ca and I was wondering several things one is where do you find rare seeds etc. such as cococa, vanilla orchid etc. and the second is how well do tropicals and subtropicals do around Northern CA and finally are there rare's which could do well "espaliered"????????? as we will only have .19 of an acre of land and I want a lot of variety without the yard becoming overrun... Sincerely, Dennis ---------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 05:46 PDT To: crosley1@ix.netcom.com Dennis, you can get seed from at least two rare fruit groups in the US, and you should subscribe to both. There are other sources, commercial and non-profit as well, in other countries. CRFG (California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc.) at http://www.crfg.org/ and Rare Fruit Council International in Florida (No web page) To order seed from CRFG, write to: CRFG Seed c/o Chris and Shirley Popko 230 N. Angeleno Ave Azusa, CA 91702-3519 To order seed from RFCI write to Rare Fruit Council International Seed Exchange c/o Tom White P.O. Box 570666 Miami, Florida 33257-0666 There are other commercial establishments as well. You might try searching on the internet. The tropicals you mentioned will require a heated greenhouse and very controlled conditions. Let me know if you want to be on the (free) mailing list for the Rare Fruit News Online. I'd guess most sub-tropical fruit trees could be espaliered, some more successfully than others. I know a man who tried it with cherimoyas. I think there would be better results when the trees are small to moderate in height. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Thanks for e mailing me the material, which I have yet to read. I just got back from the San Diego Rare Fruit meeting. I believe you were present as well but I didn't get a chance to meet you. I am Joel Moskowitz and I had the idea of some e mail network where persons interested in rare fruit could share knowledge etc. Seems you have this already up and running. I have no need to re invent the wheel. Tomorrow...it is late...I will read what you sent and probably get back to you further. Best, Joel Moskowitz ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:27:45 +0000 From and To: Jeff Earl Hello I got your name and email from Norm Rohrabaugh, who told me you are the one to contact to subscribe to the rare fruit newsgroup. I am quite familiar with the Web but I haven't used the newsgroups much. Can you fill me in on the details? My Tropical Web page.....www.thevision.net/jearl/ Thank You... Jeff Earl Modesto, Calif. ---------------------------------------------------- Jeff, I don't have a newsgroup, just a newsletter that I do on my own. I collect information, mostly letters from people who are on the list, and send it back to everyone on the list, sometimes with my own comments. There are some very knowledgeable people in the group, and you can probably find out anything you need to know. Nice pictures in your web page! ------------------------------------------------------ From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:52:25 -0400 Hi Leo, Please put this in the next issue of "Rare Fruit News OnLine:" Thank you, Scott, for your response to my question about using micro-jets for cold protection. The issue of cold protection is very important to me, because I am in a precarious situation. I have spent a great deal of time, money, and effort putting tropical trees in my yard. They are all considered to be too tender to be grown in my area (Lake county, FL, USDA zone 9). The temperature here once dropped to 17 degrees, which is slightly colder than Tampa's record low temperature (18 degrees). All along I have assumed that my trees will do well as long as I protect them for their first 2 or 3 years, when they are most susceptible to freeze damage. Now I am beginning to wonder about that assumption. Today I saw a mango tree in my area that had (and I emphasize the word "had") a trunk that was nearly 8 inches in diameter! It had been killed almost to the ground. Shoots were coming from buds at the very bottom of the trunk. Obviously, a severe freeze (the '89 freeze, perhaps?) had killed 90% of a very large, mature tree. The other mango trees that I have seen in this area have suffered the same fate. I have not yet seen one with flowers or fruit on it. I have seen guava trees (the tropical or "common" kind) around here that have resprouted from the base of a large, dead trunk. I *have* seen fruit on them, however. My fears are these: 1) When mature, will my trees die all the way to the ground in a severe freeze?; 2) Will I have to go to ridiculously great lengths just to keep the trunk and large branches alive (I'm not worried about the small branches)?; 3) Will they produce fruit following the freeze damage caused by a "normal" winter (4 freezes, with the lowest temperature about 25 degrees)? I realize that each tree is different. A mango tree, for example, will not set fruit if its flowers are exposed to sub-40 degree temperatures for very long, and it won't even *produce* flowers if it is killed to the ground every other year! It obviously needs a climate that is free from severe freezes. I am hoping that my trees will prove to be hardier than the mango! I would appreciate your comments (as well as anyone else's) regarding the cold-hardiness of the following trees: litchi guava strawberry guava carambola white sapote rose apple Basically, I would like to know what will happen to each one following a 25-degree freeze of moderate duration. Will the tree still produce fruit that year? Will it die all the way to the ground? (For the sake of simplicity, assume that these are mature trees planted on a south-facing site.) I am very interested in others' experiences in growing these trees (particularly in areas that are prone to freezes). I would greatly appreciate any comments (posted here or sent to me directly at "olliep@gate.net"). Oliver Patterson ------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:28:12 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Oliver Patterson Oliver, thanks for the cc (carbon copy). I hope that I get a cc of more of the mail that passes between the readers. It concerns me that information for the newsletter may dry up, as you exchange information but don't let the readership share in the lode. I realize that much is not appropriate for everyone, such as a private conversation, or maybe an exchange of scarce plant material, etc. However much of the advice offered or requested would be of interest to many of the readers. Someone expressed a concern that I'd be overwhelmed with these snippets, but that's so much better than to have NOTHING to report. Thanks, again, and I hope everyone will get into the habit of cc: leom@rarefruit.com, even when there may be only a remote chance that others will be interested and profit from the exchange. Thanks again!! Sincerely, Leo ------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" You wrote: > Oliver, I hope that I get a cc of the mail that goes between the > readers. It concerns me that the information will wither and dry > up, as you exchange information but don't let the readership > share in the lode. I am hoping that any responses to my letter will be sent to you to put in RFNO, but I included my e-mail address just in case. Some people might want to write just a short note, and would be reluctant to send it to you to put in RFNO because they wouldn't feel that it would be worth publication. In addition, if someone wanted to ask me something that did not relate to horticulture (e.g., "Where is Mount Dora?"), they wouldn't ask it via RFNO. > Someone expressed a concern that I'd be overwhelmed with these > snippets, but that's so much nicer than to have NOTHING to report. Good point. Out of curiosity, are you receiving too many or too few letters for RFNO (or does it matter)? > Thanks, and I hope everyone will try to get into the cc: > leom@rarefruit.com habit, when there's even a remote chance that > others will be interested and profit from the exchange. Perhaps I should mention the "cc:" idea the next time I include my e-mail address. I do think that most of the subscribers know to do that, though. BTW, when will the next issue be sent out? Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: "Oliver Patterson" Oliver, since the first of 1997, the issues have been approximately on the first and fifteenth of the month. I expect to continue that pattern, barring some massive load of mail that needs to be dealt with more frequently. All I hope for is for consideration as to whether the information being exchanged has possible interest to some of the rare fruit growers, and if so, will send a cc to me to incorporate. I often edit letters, leaving out information sent directly to me relating to things of no interest to the readers. Sometimes I modify to correct spelling and grammar, when the writer is not fluent in English. I would do that for information exchanged between correspondents and cc'd to me, as well. I have not been overwhelmed, by any means. Sometimes I wonder whether the busy readers would prefer a shorter, more condensed version. For me, up to now, at least, the newsletter is about what I had hoped would evolve. I have encouraged everyone to send in questions that they'd like to have answered, or answers to questions that they think may exist. Even if no current reader has an answer for a question asked, we've seen later readers come along and post responses to past questions. It's always good to hear from you. Sincerely, Leo --------------------------------------------- From: Robert Stone Received: (from robsto@juno.com) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:36:29 PST I have further information obout the rare Fruit Club Conference at Fruit and Spice Park July 11, 12, and 13: Day 1 a.m. ---- visit on your own a banana nursery, a coconut, kumquat, and banana nursery, two private fruit growers, and two other nurseries. Fruit trees will be available at some sites. p.m.--tours of Brook's Tropical fruit packing house an then University of Florida tropical research center Day 2 ---- Mango morning at Fairchild Tropical Garden Tour the Kampong of the National Tropical Botanical Garden Lunch at the Kampong Tour of Fruit and Spice Park Evening picnic banquet MANGO TASTING - FIFTY OR MORE VARIETIES TO TRY Day 3 ----Seven lectures: A New approach to Growin Guavas Important New Fruit Crop Insects and Diseases in Florida Planting, Fertilizing Tropical Fruits Genetic Improvement of Bananas and Plantains The best Rare Tropical Fruits for South Florida Mamey, Carambola, and Passionfruit in South Florida Lychee and Longan Workshop Cost is $25.00, payable to Tropical Fruit and Vegetable Society of the Redlands. Mail to address below: Fruit and Spice Park -24801 S. W. 187th Avenue, Homestead, FL 33031 Phone 305 247-5727 or FAX 305 245-3369 This is a chance to talk to many very knowledgeable people and just plain folks who share the hobby. Bob Stone ------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) From: Mike Carter O.k, while perhaps a -little- off subject matter, I am annoyed and you know misery loves company :-) I am a fruit lover. (Hence, I'm here.) Since I have neither the space or inclination to grow EVERYTHING I like, I am subject to purchasing produce from the local stores. It seems that everytime we buy plums, they're either severely bruised near the pit (read, most of the meat) or are so dry it's a miracle the tree was able to produce the plum in the first place. Here's the catch: They all LOOK just fine. So I say, "O.k, let's buy them from another chain.." Next day, while driving to work, my morning plum was another tosser. Yuk-o-mania. Bruised core, a few millimeters of good stuff from the skin down. The rest would make you ill. So I say, "O.k, 'nuff's enough. I figure the only place to buy reasonably good produce must be the local naturally grown place that charges three legs, four arms and a lease on your teeth." Wrong again. These superbly shaped, almost perfectly waxed plum adonis'es tasted like a sample of wet, third year compost with a yard full of dobermans. Ka-thunk. Another tosser. So the question I have is: How do you tell if it's good or bad..and WHERE do I get 'em? Cheers -Mike +----------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Mike Carter | | | Pyro@primenet.com | Happiness is a rocket in flight | | MAD ROCKET SCIENTIST | | +----------------------+-------------------------------------+ To: Mike I think that if you lose your day job, you'd make it fine writing comedy. The rest of us have been taking life far too seriously and not seeing the humor in every day situations. I don't have an answer to the fruit-buying dilema. We have farmers' markets that are pretty good. In the sub-tropics, there's almost always something ripe on my own trees. I think some of the problem is that varieties are planted that color as if ripe long before they are, so that the buyer is fooled into thinking the fruit is really ripe. Also, the long-term storage of fruit probably contributes to an internal breakdown. I hope you don't ever lose your sense of humor over it! And do write--often! Leo ------------------------------------ From: "Holzinger, Bob" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:15:59 -0700 Hi Leo, I was pleasantly surprised to find your home page when I went looking in the Net for interesting items to check out. Glad to hear that you are doing well in Rancho Penasquitos. What types of mango have you fruited there so far? I got two fruit (my first) last December on a small Kent. I should start back at the beginning first. I moved to Ventura 3 years ago when I changed jobs--I work at Amgen now. The property I bought has 1/3 acre with a south face in the backyard with a downhill slope, i.e. good drainage. I terraced the slope, backfilled with topsoil and started to plant whatever I could find. I have over 40 Passiflora species and hybrids, 18 and soon to be 20 varieties of bananas, 3 mangos in the ground (Kent, Manilla, Winters) and several seedlings from Mexico, black sapote, jaboticaba, yellow jaboticaba, cherimoya, at least 10 guava species and relatives, citrus (including fruiting Chandler pummelo), capulin cherry, berries, figs, stone fruits, and several cactus species. For those who might be interested, Patrick Worley just started mail order sales of Passifloras again under the name Wild Ridge Nursery in Prunedale, Calif. He had an article in the May issue of Sunset and his address is there at the end of the article. I am interested in joining your group and could answer any Passiflora questions to the best of my ability, or I can ask Patrick. Let me know what you need from me and we'll take it from there. I look forward to chatting with you and your network of rare fruities. Take care. Best regards, Bob Holzinger bob.holzinger@amgen.com ------------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:15:09 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Bob! How good to hear from you. I didn't know where you had moved. Yesterday I sent out a query to the 60 people who are on my mailing list for Rare Fruit News Online, trying to find a picture of the FRUIT of Passiflora Vitafolia. Julian, from the Quail Botanical Garden, had called, not being able to locate one. I had a photo of one of my own that I gave him, and it will do, but it isn't the high quality one would find in a display. I'm glad to know Patrick's around. Does he have e-mail or webpage? My seedling mangoes I began to grow several years ago, from sources unknown, have been a pleasant surprise, for the most part. Several of them are polyembronic, and I wish I knew where they came from. I have planted seeds over the years from Mexico, Hawaii, and miscellaneous grocery stores. Some were quite good, but last year was the first year most of them had fruited, so this year will be of greater interest. Besides my seedlings, I also have Peggy Winters Seedling, #20222 which was renamed Winters, Kent, Keitt, Carrie, Valencia Pride, Aloha, Edwards, Glorioso, Mission, a few others, and seedlings of Oro. I wish I had a better location. My .25 acre has less than half level, and the rest faces NORTH! The climate is excellent here, with no frosts in the 5 years I've been here. Leo ----------- Date: Wed Apr 30 11:46:52 1997 From: "Holzinger, Bob" Hi Leo, Boy you must live by your computer. That was record time turnaround on my email I sent to you! I just got your last newsletter and I think I would like to be online with this address, Lin (my wife) uses the computer too much for me to read that big of a letter. I checked my slide inventory and I only have pictures of P. vitifolia fruit with other fruit, not by itself. If I had been given the same request 3 months ago I could have sent him a fresh fruit, but it's past the season now. And yes I would like to see the back issues. Send them to my Amgen address and put me on your distribution list. Hopefully I can contribute something to the group. This is quite an undertaking you have volunteered to tackle and I hope you have enough time left over to look at your plants once in a while. When I finish the letters I will email back with questions, comments, sources, etc. Later, Bob ------------------------------------------- From: "Stef Van Uffel" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:51:13 +0200 Hello Leo, I don't have a picture, but I found a most interesting site about Passionflowers You'll find it at: www.threewa.co.uk/passion/ They have lots of pictures, perhaps you can fax them. I believe their E-mail is rather a mess. Greetings, Stef Stef.VanUffel@ping.be ------------------------------------- From: "Mark Cesare" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:53:14 -0400 We are interested in growing Guava from seed in North Carolina. Please send info, if you have any. Respond to cesare@ara.com or cesarejms@aol.com. Thanks. Mark C. ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:58:38 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Mark Cesare Mark, there are several "common" fruit, all called guava: Here are a FEW: FEIJOA SELLOWIANA - Feijoa, Pineapple Guava PSIDIUM GUAJAVA - Apple guava, yellow guava PSIDIUM LITTORALE - Strawberry guava It's extremely easy to grow the Psidium Guajava from seed. I haven't tried the others. First you have to have the seed. If you know someone whose fruit you like, just plant it. Don't wait too long before getting the seed into a planting mix. If the weather is warm, they should sprout rather quickly. Watch for snails, which like the tender shoots. If you don't have a good source for really good guava seeds, you can get seed from at least two rare fruit groups in the US, and you should subscribe to both. There are other sources, commercial and non-profit as well, in other countries. CRFG (California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc.) at http://www.crfg.org/ and Rare Fruit Council International in Florida (No web page) To order seed from CRFG, write to: CRFG Seed c/o Chris and Shirley Popko 230 N. Angeleno Ave Azusa, CA 91702-3519 To order seed from RFCI write to Rare Fruit Council International Seed Exchange c/o Tom White P.O. Box 570666 Miami, Florida 33257-0666 If you have other questions, let me know. I am putting your letter in the newsletter, and you may get additional suggestions. The CRFG web page is excellent to get all kinds of help. Leo ------------------------------------- From: benson@netxpress.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:32:32 -0500 Put me on the mailing list for the newsletter. I am Adam Benson from San Antonio, Texas, actually a little south of San Antonio in zone 8b/9a. I grow some tangerines, bananas, papayas, and mangos in the greenhouse. Adam >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - May 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 05/16/97 10 At the end of this article is a note about my grafting habits. I've done it this way for years, and old habits die hard. ----------------------------- Date: 5/1/97 From: Don Hickox Subject: Biological Control of Aphids Leo, I should have received my predator beetles today, a month late due to Bio-Pest's error, but I'll let you know how they do. (Later) Here's more info on the wasp. According to Applied Bio Pest, phone 1 800 787 BUGS, the wasp for the giant white fly will be released by the agriculture department sometime this summer. The other insect for aphid control is the lacewing. As I said Walter Anderson is the only place (locally) that this company currently deals with. I have not received anything from them yet. They had shipped the beetles on the 3rd. They are tracking the UPS delivery. See ya, Don ------------------------- From: "Jose M. Gallego" Subject: Looking for cupuacu theobroma Hi Leo, I was wondering if you could ask your mailing list to see if anyone has seeds or a plant of the cupuacu theobroma grandiflorum, for sale. I have 'bean' looking for this fruit tree for some time now, I used several resources on the internet, I wrote to a company in Brazil and here in the US (can't remember right now their names) but I have yet to receive a reply. Several months ago I posted the request on the news groups, no reply. I think there is a lot of market potential for this fruit and Brazil may not want to let come to the US (???) Thanks, Jose ----------------------- Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 11:23:14 -0400 From: Bill Lady Subject: Re: Vanilla, for Dennis Hi, Leo: Dennis recently asked about vanilla and cacao: Vanilla is raised commercially in Yucatan, Chiapas, and Quintana Roo States in Mexico, and also in Tahiti. It grows wild in Central America, and can be found from sea-level up to about 4,000 feet elevation. It is an orchid plant, but those I have seen have some roots in the ground. With good growing conditions it will spread extensively through low tree branches around the area of the plant. The vines are about 1/4" to 3/8" in diameter, and jointed somewhat at each leaf. The leaves are fleshy and about 2" X 3" in size. I had several decorative plants with my orchid collection at my former home in Tegucigalpa, Honduras, and at a farm 60 miles east of there, both at the same elevation of about 3,200 feet, and they did very well. These were from plants collected in the wild. In commercial production, each flower is polinated by hand. In the wild, the plants produce pods but in very small quantity. When the pods are mature, they are harvested individually and then subjected to a long curing process which I am not very familiar with. I do know that each pod is scratched longitudinally with a needle, and, at some point in the drying process they are packed in wooden boxes to produce the vanillin through fermentation. The beans are normally sold in the cured state, with the vanillin extracted industrially by the use of alcohol. If Dennis knows anyone in Belize, there is a very extensive wild plant in the bushes behind the old PanAm hangar at the Belize airport, and perhaps cuttings could be obtained. Regarding Cacao, this also grows wild all through Central America. It extends naturally to the north as far as Chiapas, Quintana Roo, and Yucatan, and south into South America. I have seen it at elevations from sea-level up to about 3,000 feet, and it seems to much prefer warm, tropical conditions. The fruit is delicious when eaten ripe from the tree. The seeds were used as currency, and as a beverage, by the early Indian civilizations before the Conquest. The Spaniards developed a taste for it, and it became the most important export crop for certain areas in the 17th and 18th centuries. (See: " Spanish Central America, A Socioeconomic History, 1520-1720", by Murdo J. Macleod). At that time, there were important plantations on the Pacific coast of Guatemala and El Salvador, as well as on the Caribbean coast of Honduras and in Costa Rica. I understand there is a current attempt to revive commercial production in Honduras, near Puerto Cortes. At the present time, the most important producing areas are Ecuador and Africa. There is very little commercial production today in Central America. Both Vanilla and Cacao are strictly tropical plants, and they will not thrive at all in a cold climate except under hot house conditions. Best regards, Bill Lady ------------------------- At 03:34 PM 5/7/97 +0000, Leo wrote to Moshe: Moshe, I would like to know whether you have mangoes that are polyembryonic? Or come true to seed, even if not polyembryonic? Leo ----- Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:30:41 -0500 To: Leo Manuel From: moshe nadler Hi! First I must tell you that it's nice to hear from you and it's nice to read the mail that you send. Yair and I enjoy reading it. As for polyembryonic mango - the comercial mango varaities that we grow are all monoembryonics - keitt, parvin, tommy atkins, haden, austeem, palmer and irvin. the only mango that is poly is the terpentine which we use as rootstock. Right now we have fruits on those trees. they are small, yellow, have a strong taste and a lot of fibres (the local people here like them). By the way, Yair just finished is PhD on the genetic side of this phnomena - the poly and mono embryo. I will ask him to send also written material from his thesis. Sincerely yours, Moshe ---------------------------- Date: Thu May 8 19:55:15 1997 From: "Alan Moxley" Hi Leo, My name is Alan Moxley. I grew up in San Diego and hope to return someday. Right now I live in Santa Cruz, CA. I've recently started the hobby of growing tropical plants, including a tamarind tree and a mango tree (both from seeds). With the cold weather up here I've had to be very caring for my plants. I bring my little mango and tamarind trees in every night. They are both growing very nicely. I'm very much interested in growing more plants and exotic fruit trees. However, I am limited by the fact that I live in an apartment and that I live in northern California. I plan on moving back to San Diego in a couple years (where my parents still live). I would like to join your news group, but I also have a specific request. I would like to obtain the seed of a mango that grows well in southern California. Let me make it clear that I love mangoes! The mango seedling I have was planted from a mango I bought in the supermarket. I was surprised to see it grow, and it is now about about 5-6 inches tall. I understand that there are different varieties of plants and that some are better suited to certain environments. I have no idea where my mango came from so I'd like to plant another mango tree for the purpose of growing it in San Diego someday (and harvesting its fruit!). Please let me know what you think. Should I buy a small mango tree, or grow one from a seed? Could you sell me some seeds or let me know where I should get some? When I was younger I, the family used to visit Mexico frequently, which is where I got my exposure to tropicals plants and fruits. He died when I was nine (I'm 23 now). I have very few Moxley relatives (distant cousins), though I do have a half brother and sister. I plan on working in the computer industry up here in northern CA for a couple years. I very much want to move back to San Diego, or perhaps somewhere even warmer. BTW, I have my own web site. It has a list of the plants I have and pictures I've gathered off of the internet. http://www.cruzio.com/~amoxley -Alan -------------------- Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 20:15:31 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Hi, Alan! It's fine to use supermarket seeds, but you need to know what the variety is. Usually the produce manager knows, or can show you a box with the variety imprinted on it. Price Club sells them by the dozen in a box, in season (not yet.) Their boxes are marked. I planted several Kent and Keitt seeds from there last year. I would buy a young started tree, grafted to a known variety, when you get located in San Diego. There are lots of places to buy them. Nurseryland often has special sales, around $40, occasionally. Home Depot sometimes has them, especially in Lemon Grove, near here. Also for good prices. Lots of places carry them in a wide range of prices. You need to find out what kinds you like and what grows well. CRFG webpage is an excellent place to begin, with links to many good places. Alan, I'm sure you'll get excellent advice from our readers to your questions. I'm putting your letter in the next newsletter. Yours, Leo --------------------------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: "'Leo Manuel'" Subject: Lots of stuff Hi Leo, I finally got through most of the past "issues" of RFNO and have some comments to provide. First of all, if anyone wants to contact Patrick Worley about Passifloras his email address is MrBegonyuh@aol.com. He is looking for someone who has P. alata "Ruby Glow" because he lost his and needs to get cuttings going again. (NOTE: Patrick is an EXPERT on Passifloras!) Several people in mailing group said they grow papayas (Ed in Laguna Hills and Bob Stone to name a few). I would like to get some seeds if they are available later in the year. Several people in Florida asked about cold hardiness and protection of bananas and passifloras. My experience here in So. California is to have back-up plants somewhere it is safe because once bananas and passifloras get big they are almost impossible to protect. A large sheet or cloth tarp could protect a bit but once it gets below 32 there's most likely going to be some damage on both. So I would take cuttings of the passifloras now and get some back-up plants ready for the next assult. Piyush Mehta in the Bay Area wants to know where to get sub-tropical plants. After doing some research on growing conditions, I would suggest she find a friend who has a van or truck and they take a few days to drive to San Diego, stopping at nurseries along the way to compare stock and price and then buying on the way back home. I could provide a list to her of the nurseries I would include in her itinerary. And lastly, Leo, did you contact the nursery in Queensland about the Kensington Pride mango? It sounded like they could be a source for a lot of other plants if they are clean enough to pass inspection here in California. (NOTE: No, not yet. I'm still hoping for something local. I am afraid that imported plants, even if they come in clean, will be subjected to lethal conditions in the inspection station. I've heard horror stories... Leo) That's it, except to say that it will be no problem not emailing while you are away--I will be visiting Patrick Worley at that time and will hopefully expand my passiflora collection. Best regards, Bob -------------------------------- From: "JEFF" Subject: Coconuts Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:04:06 -0700 Hello............. I am curious to find out how far north in the US are Coconuts grown? I know that you can grow Coconuts in Miami, FL. But can they be grown outdoors farther north? Has anyone ever heard of Coconut trees that survive Califonia's cool winters? Jeff Earl, Modesto,CA --------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 18:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: tlong@michele.gcccd.cc.ca.us (Therese Long) 1. I can't seem to obtain sphagnum moss (for air layering) in a quantity to meet my needs; local distributors will not sell retail. Is there a suitable, obtainable, replacement? 2. Can an edible fig be air layered? Robert Long, Santee, CA ----- From: Leo Manuel Robert, I know you'll get good advice from our experienced readers. Here's my two-cents worth: I buy the sphagnum moss from Home Depot. The type doesn't seem to matter. Edible figs probably could be air layered, but they grow so easily from cuttings that most people would reproduce them that way. I use cuttings that are about finger size in diameter, and about one to two feet in length, although the dimensions aren't important. I have cut it so that a bud is near the bottom and I'll split the base end, using the clippers. That's the way I cut up grape vines for growing them from cuttings also. Grape vines are very easy to grow from cuttings. Then put them vertically in a 5-gallon pot with good drainage, that is nearly full of soil or soil mix, about a dozen per pot. In a few weeks they take off. It may help to keep them in a shady place until they start to grow. Leo -------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 04:12:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Rack12@aol.com Subject: Longans I am looking for a large fruit-bearing tree for my front yard. I live in Mar Vista, which is between Santa Monica and the L.A. airport. I planted a guava tree once in my front yard, but someone actually stole the tree! In the backyard, I have over sixty fruiting trees and vines. This time I want to plant something that nobody will recognize. I was thinking about longans. I have some questions.... 1. Will a longan tree grow well in the cool summers and warm winters of the Southern California coast? 2. Will a longan tree bear fruit here? 3. Has anybody had any success with longans? 4. Is litchi a better choice? David --------- From: Leo Manuel David, I expect that you'll get lots of responses from your questions. Here's mine: I've had greater success with longans near the coast in S. California than with lychees. The lychee trees grew to be large and beautiful, and in the twelve years of life, they produced a total of about one dozen large, tasty and beautiful fruit. On the other hand, the Aap longan was loaded every year, after it started producing. Now I have a Kohala longan that produces well. I haven't got around to getting a lychee. (NOTE: I'm open to suggestions from your personal success with lychees.) I think that a Macadamia tree is also a good choice for the front yard. The nuts aren't recognized, and the holly-like foliage makes it attractive. I had one in my front yard where I used to live. Leo ---------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:15:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" Subject: Mango mornings I'm going to try to get to the Mango Morning at Fairchild Tropical Garden in July -- if I can bribe someone at work to work that Saturday for me. I went the last couple years and thoroughly enjoyed the tasting and lectures and the chance to buy cultivars not readily available elsewhere. Last year several interesting varieties were for sale, including Nam Doc Mai, Dot, Cushman, Spirit of '76, Glenn, and Julie. Additionally, 4 varieties were promoted as "Curator's Choice" varieties: Joellen, Cogshall, Tong Dam, and Alanpur Banashan. I bought a Joellen and Alanpur Banashan. If they fruit next year, I'll let you know how they are. Until then I'm taking the Curator (Dr. Richard Campbell) at his word that they're excellent cultivars. My other mango trees, which I have tasted, are: Keitt, Kent, Glenn, Carrie, Cushman, Dot and Beverly. (Beverly, along with Graham, Hodson, and Vallenato, are this year's Curator's Choices.) I hope some of you get to Fairchild for this event (and to the Fruit and Spice Park, too, if you can). Meanwhile, I'm always interested in trading information/suggestions about mango varieties---favorites, unfavorites, etc. Dan Duprey Lake Worth, Florida ------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:04:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: Kelp for your fruit? I would like to ask any who have had experience with kelp, what their short and long term experience has been. I would prefer to hear this from someone who doesn't have an economic interest in the substance. Also would like to know where one can get it at the most reasonable price. Joel and Arlene Moskowitz -------------------------- From: "Stef Van Uffel" To: "Leo Manuel" Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:07:44 +0200 Hello Leo, Is there somebody who has some seeds from hardy kiwi's for me? Two years ago, I had some luck buying them here in Belgium. I had a few plants, but they didn't grow very well. At last, there was only one left, and that was eaten by my dog (she clearly couldn't wait until there actually was some fruit on it). The kiwi's I bought were cultivated in France, but I never saw any plants when I was on vacation there (they do grow the usual commercial kiwi's). In the mean time, I looked everywhere to buy them again, but nobody seems to import them. The few seeds I have left, won't come out after this time. So, if there is anybody who has hardy kiwi's and could send me some seeds, I would be very grateful (contact me by e-mail) By the way, some time ago, I bought a rare passionfruit. It was banana-shaped, bright yellow, 6-8 cm long and 2-2.5 cm in diameter. I seeded them and after 4 weeks I got well growing little seedlings. The leaves have the three usual 'lobes', but are very 'pointy'. Has anybody an idea of the name of this passionflower? (I'm aware this is a very vague description of the plant, but I haven't photographed them. I could do this if it would be really necessary, but perhaps it is a very common species in the US...) Thanks, Stef Stef.VanUffel@ping.be --------------------------------------------- Leo's grafting: I do most of my grafting of deciduous fruit trees in the spring and in early summer. In part, it's when I find graftwood, but often it's from not doing it during the dormant season. However, it works at least as well as dormant-season grafting. [I usually try to cut the wood so that there's a bud in the last inch of both the scion and the root sprout. Then I make the splice so the buds are on opposite sides of the splice. I've never tested to see if this improves the percentage of "takes" but it doesn't seem to hurt. Someone in NAFEX recommended this in an article titled "The Bud Saver." I began trying to do it that way, and don't really know if it helps.] I try to get freshly hardened wood, about pencil diameter, and in length of 3-6 inches. When I cut the scions myself, I leave some of the leaf stems on, and a small part of the leaf itself, away from the graft. This may help the graft to "take" more quickly. Sometimes the stems fall off, but not always. I like for the rootstock sprout to be the same diameter as the scion. I most often use a modified splice graft. It's a splice, on a diagonal of about one inch, with both of the diagonal surfaces cut (I use a single-edged razor blade) about one-half inch, and vertical. This cut is about one-third of an inch from the point of cut surface, and is made on both the scion and the rootstock. Then I place the scion and rootstock together so that they mesh in a tongue-and-groove form. This provides additional surface of cambium cells to the regular splice graft, and it frees both hands to wrap with clear plastic grafting tape. |\ | | | | \ \ | | | \ \ | | o| |\ \ | | | | \ \| |o | | \ \ | | | \ \ | | | \| Rootstock Scion Then I place a small piece of very slightly moist paper towel around the wrapped graft, put a sandwich-size plastic baggie around it, tie it with a short 6-8" piece of string, squeezing out as much air as possible before sealing it with a tight tie of the string. I cover the graft with a paper cover. I used to use small brown paper bags. Now I use scrap 8.5" x 11" printer paper. Usually I just roll it around the graft, tie around the graft area, and fold the top over, so that the sun doesn't get in. In 2-4 weeks the leaf buds indicate that it's beginning to grow. I'd leave it until it begins to push on the baggie. When I remove the plastic and paper coverings, I leave the plastic tape around the graft for several weeks. Be careful, though, that the plastic tape doesn't prevent the graft area from expanding. I basically graft everything the same way. Mangoes, cherimoyas, whatever. Sometimes, however, especially for extremely small-diameter wood, it's easier to use a cleft graft. Simply cut the rootstock sprout across the grain, split it (again, I use a razor blade, as it's sharper, by far), about one-half inch down the grain, cut the scion piece on both sides, so it's V-shaped, insert, wrap with plastic grafting tape, and treat it otherwise the same as the modified splice graft. When I first started grafting, I did everything that way, and it worked pretty well. This method also frees both hands to wrap the tape about the graft area. There's a modified cleft graft that I've used, when the scion is much smaller than the root sprout. If the scion is, say, 1/4" but the root sprout is 3/8", I've split the root sprout near the edge, where the distance across at the split is the diameter of the scion, in this case 1/4". I've even put two scions on, on opposite sides of the root sprout. There's a type of graft I've never used, called the NURSE GRAFT, as I recall. It's recommended for grafting trees that are very difficult to graft or to grow from cuttings. The base of the "scions" are prepared as you would for growing from cuttings, using hormones, etc. But the tops of the cuttings are inarched into the parent tree. This would require rather long cuttings, maybe 18 inches, I'd guess. Again, I've never tried it, but always thought I would for lychee. I knew a grower, years ago, who would plant young mangoes around the base of an older mango, when the older one was not doing much. Then he'd inarch one or two of the young mangoes into the old one. He claimed it would speed up the time for fruiting considerably. I haven't tried that, either. How about your grafting idiosyncracies? >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - May 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 06/01/97 11 Not a lot of mail, so this one may be a "quickie." I've almost finished grafting, and air-layering. I usually try to do air-layer in March or April. Plums (Gulf Red and Wade, in that order) have been ripening. Gulf Red is almost gone, while Wade is just beginning. Earligrande peach is almost finished and May Pride, Mr. X, and Eva's Pride are in full swing. Arapahoe (thornless and erect) black berries are ripening. I recommend this one, if you want a good, thornless, sweet, and early berry. It's slow to spread, but that may not be a handicap. Longan (Kohala) is setting fruit nicely, as are most of my mango trees; Tropical guavas are beginning to bloom in earnest; and Surinam Cherries (Pitangas) are ripening, and have been for a few weeks. Please remember to send a cc: leom@rarefruit.com, when you have information that will be of interest to some of the other growers in the group. Rare Fruit News Online lives only as long as there's a flow of information from you to the group. Have you read any good articles lately about rare fruit? If you change mailing addresses, let me know. If you want any of the back issues of RFNO to the beginning of 1997, let me know. However, the file size is large. ------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:30:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ted Kapantais (I want to receive Rare Fruit News Online.) My name is Ted, and I live in Sarasota. I grow mangoes, lychees, carambolas, atemoyas, figs, citrus, peaches, loquats, jaboticabas, all as a hobby. I have over 100 trees in the ground and numerous ones in pots. I also graft, and have developed my own frost protection system. Ted (ggk217@aol.com) [Note: Ted, tell us about your frost-protection system!] -------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Hi. I'm interested in your mailing list newsletter. We live in Florida, between Ocala and Gainesville, in a very mild microclimate. Last winter, it got down to 18 or 19 in most neighboring communities but we barely dipped a fraction of a degree below 30--surrounded by water. We don't care if something is rare or common--if it is fruit, tastes good and grows here, we want to try it. We bought the place in November and we have way over 100 fruit varieties already. Our limitation is that we are in a very high water table area and much of the area of our land suitable to grow trees alreadly has huge oaks. Moreover, in addition to fruit and nuts, we are also growing quite a bit of bamboo. I'm not going to cut ancient oaks for anything. So we only have an acre or two that is well drained and of that maybe an acre that I'm willing to make available now. We have wild plums of great beauty and little merit as fruit that get defoliated in the spring by tent caterpillars. I expect that I will have to defend with BT any prunus. I've about decided not to buy plum trees because of the defoliation problem. So we are particularly interested in the following: 1) Fruits, nuts, etc., that require less than 300 hours of chill. Since our first winter got no colder than 29+ (F), it would be tolerable to have most anything that can stand down to say 25 (F). I'm propagating citrus, pear and persimmon rootstock as soon as I can get to it and will probably do so for peach. The strategy is to have a nursery easy to protect of replacement plants and of course to make more copies of the ones that really do well and that we really like to fill in or expand. Peaches are used as pioneer species to fill in while other trees reach full size. They will be phased out of any particular site after 7-10 years. 2) Fruits suited to our soil--sand with organic matter varying from very high to very low and corresponding fertility. We intend to maintain and enhance fertility mainly through mulch, of which we have more than we have time to harvest by a few orders of magnitude. 3) Disease and pest resistant cultivars and species. 4) Cultivars and species that tolerate seasonal wet and, if possible, flooded conditions. Any such can be planted without competing for space with the majority of fruits and nuts. 5) Cultivars and species that tolerate various degrees of shade so we can use some of the space under our ancient oaks and very large hickories. This could include genuine understory species and of course vines. 6) Cultivars and species that require no more than 300 hours of chill and tolerate some frost. We also have some marginal to frost that we will protect but this can get out of hand rapidly. 7) Cultivars and species that have multiple uses. 8) Wind resistant cultivars and species. 9) Cultivars and species tolerant of winter drought. We are particularly interested in persimmons, figs, surinam cherry (need cultivars), feijoa (need cultivars), and passiflora (need species and cultivars). We also are looking for good cultivars of loquat. Dan Hemenway ---- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:29:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Hemenway Welcome, Dan. I'll put your letter in the June 1 issue of Rare Fruit News Online, and I'm sure you'll get lots of help from our experienced grower-readers. I would think that raised beds would help somewhat, when the water table is high. There will undoubtedly be fruit that will not do well with too much moisture in the soil, such as papayas and avocado, and probably others. The chill requirements are about what we have in parts of California, and isn't a big barrier. I wouldn't think winter drought would ever be a problem for you. I don't know what the multiple-use requirement means. I would guess that more dwarfing trees would be more wind-resistant than taller ones, in general. Leo --------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:09:01 -0700 (PDT) From: libby@igc.apc.org (Libby J. Goldstein) Subject: Re: Layering edible fig Robert, You can air-layer most edible fig varieties, but the easiest way to propagate them is by simple layering...they often do it on their own...just take a low growing branch and bury part of it in the soil. It should strike roots in a couple of weeks...a month at the most. Then cut it off and plant it where you want it. Libby J. Goldstein phone & fax: 215-465-8878 Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32 My garden must be n-dimensional if it's out here in cyberspace. ----------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:25:25 -0700 From: "Matthew A. Franzino" Subject: new plantings Wondering if anyone has any expierence with two new additions to my jungle. Last week I planted a Mexicola Grande and a Ken's Red Kiwi. The Mexicola I have high hopes for since I've found 3 fruiting avocados within 6 blocks of my house. The Ken's Red I only know what I have seen in print, no first-hand expierence. Any comments? Matthew -------------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:47:23 -0400 Hi Leo, For RFNO: Regarding coconuts: In Florida they are grown along the coasts north to Cocoa Beach and Clearwater. You can find some growing further north if you look carefully. I know of very few growing in Orlando. In Texas, they are grown near the Rio Grande valley area, particularly in Brownsville. I have heard that there are some in southern California, but I have also heard that they do not survive for long there. I don't think that there are any in Arizona, but I might be wrong. Regarding an inconspicuous fruit tree: I would not recommend growing a longan in the front yard. There is a very good chance that neighbors will discover how good the fruit tastes, and they will keep coming back for more once they know about it. A few possibilities are: white sapote, black sapote, sapodilla, Surinam cherry, grumichama, tamarind, acerola, or tamarillo. I doubt that people will try these fruits, but you never know--to a Puerto Rican, the acerola is as familiar as the apple is to an Englishman. Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Response to newsletter Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:11:21 -0700 Hi Leo, How was your trip to the heartland? My trip to see Patrick was most enjoyable and he has a new email address specifically for the passiflora mail order business--wildridge@aol.com. A dollar sent to him will get a catalog of over 50 varieties and species of passifloras! [Note from Leo to readers: I've probably mentioned before that Patrick Worley knows more about passiflora than anyone I know. He's hybridized some that are well known. If you want to get passiflora or information about passiflora, contact him at the address: wildridge@aol.com.] To respond to some of the last newsletter items: Dave Moxley in Santa Cruz-- I would recommend trying something less fragile, like a guava relative until he moves back to San Diego. They could be left out most of the year and would fruit in a container easily. David, who lost his front yard guava-- sounds like he needs a guard dog chained to the tree! A macademia would be a good choice, or something that hides its fruit like a feijoa. Stef Van Uffel-- hardy kiwi plants can be bought from Hartman's Plantation, P.O. Box E, Grand Junction, Michigan 49056. Two female and one male plant cost $10. The passionfruit that he got seed from was most likely Passiflora mollissima. This is a cool grower that likes temperatures between 35 and 85 F. Once established it should be self fruitful. Stef should refer to Patrick Worley's email address above if more passiflora varieties are desired. Take care, Bob --------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:18:38 -0700 Hi Leo, A friend at work and I would like to locate a source of miracle fruit (the fruits), preferably in California. We want to do some experiments in the lab, so we need a couple dozen fruit. Possibly someone on the newsletter mailing list can help or knows someone with a fruiting bush. They can respond through the newsletter or to me directly at bholzing@amgen.com. Hope to see you soon! Bob ----------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:07:59 -0400 (EDT) From: David Rack Subject: Mulberries Dear Leo, Thanks for the information on Longans. There is now a six foot tree proudly standing in my front yard. I now have one spot left for one more tree. After experiencing my first tast of a mulberry last weekend, I've decided to plant one. The only problem is, where do I find mulberry trees for sale? Do you know of any nurseries that carry named varieties? From what I've heard, "Shangri-la" appears to be a good variety for Southern California. I live near Santa Monica, where there are rarely ever frosts or very hot days. Does anybody have any suggestions (and sources) of any superior varieties? Thanks, David Rack -------- Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:47:29 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Rack12@aol.com David, all mulberries should do well. Read to determine which ones you like. Some are sweet, but insipid. They all are deciduous (drop leaves in winter). Do you have lots of room? Some mulberry trees get quite large. Birds love them. I like the so-called Persian Mulberries, and there are named varieties. They get large, dark color, sweet, with a pleasant acid blend of flavors. (Watch where you plant them, as the dropped fruit can stain concrete-or children's clothes.) Many mulberries start readily from cuttings, in case you know someone who has a tree with desirable flavors. Having said all that, since mulberries will grow outside of our sub-tropical area, (almost everywhere in the U.S.A.) you might consider the many evergreen subtropical fruit trees, that won't grow out of our warm-winter area. I'll put your letter in the next Rare Fruit News Online. Hopefully, you'll get help from there, for finding mulberry trees, if you still want one, or perhaps you'll get suggestions of other trees or bushes with great fruit. Consider Cherry-of-the-Rio-Grande, Pitanga (Surinam Cherry), Capulin Cherry, maybe Che.... Leo --------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:04:41 -0700 From: Ed Hi Leo, Just thought I'd better check in with you since its been a while since we've touched base. We just returned from several weeks in La Paz, Baja Mexico, doing some TLC on our boat. I brought back some Mexican papaya seeds, dried properly of course, and have planted some in Jiffy Pots, following the directions about soaking in clorex, distilled water, and then sandpapering the seeds before planting. So will see how that turns out!!! Also will try some seeds from a Hawaiian solo papaya from Ralphs. Do you think it will be necessary to dry them first or should I just plant them after washing them thoroughly to remove the slime? I now have two solos and one babaco that have bloomed and have set fruit so will watch them very carefully! Still haven't figured out the proper watering schedule yet, so will just play it by ear. On the way back up the peninsula from La Paz we stopped in a Guerrero Negro motel for the night, and I saw what I considered an unusual sight. There was a papaya tree that had evidently been cut to about four feet above the ground, trunk maybe 4-5 inches in diameter, which had leafed out and had about ten fruits up to 3-4inches in diameter. That area being on the Pacific side with little rain, lots of fog, and pretty cool temperatures year round is not what I would consider ideal papaya climate so I'm encouraged about my area! Stay in touch. Ed Gribble ------------ From: Leo Sounds like an interesting trip, Ed! I would let the seeds dry out, to minimize mold, which can be fatal. Unlike many other sub-tropical seeds, they seem to keep their viability longer, so I don't think you're likely to hurt them. I have yet to eat a babaco that I liked. They have been only slightly flavored, mostly water. Most unlike the usual papaya. Have you eaten them? Until later, Leo ------ From: Ed Gribble No, haven't eaten them and I think you are right in that they aren't very tasty, but have pretty foliage. Saw the article about you in the CFRG magazine. Can you suggest a source for good mango plants? Ed ----- From: Leo Ed, in San Diego, there are several sources. I'll let the group make recommendations for places near you. Don Gholston seems to be a great resource for a lot of information. If you don't get a response, you might try asking him. There may be a CRFG page with nurseries? Do you have a local chapter of CRFG? You might try calling the president to see if he or she can recommend someone to help. Leo --------------------------------------- Finally, here's a mango check list from Yair. Compiling this list may have been part of Yair's PhD thesis! See which mango trees you don't yet have. It would be interesting to get feedback from you, with comments about the trees you know something about, the relative quality, in your opinion-maybe indicate whether disease prone, etc. I noticed the "Winters" mango listed. When I first acquired the tree, it was a Florida numbered variety, #20222. It has somewhat smaller fruit and is quite fragrant. It's one I like very much, and it is polyembryonic. From: Yair Aron (Ph.D.) Table 1. Mango cultivars and Mangifera species included in chloroplast DNA analysis. -------------------------------------------- No.-Cultivar/Seedling-Sources--Origin------- -------------------------------------------- MonoembryonicMangifera indica 1. Haden------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 2. Tommy Atkins-----I, Fac----Florida,USA 3. Maya-------------I, Fac----Israel 4. Edward-----------I, Fac----Florida,USA 5. Pinero-----------I, Fac----Puerto Rico 6. En Yahav 3-------I, Fac----Israel 7. Keitt------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 8. Irwin------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 9. Kent-------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 10. Pairi------------I, Fac----India 11. Brindibany-------I, Fac----India Polyembryonic Mangifera indica 12. 13/1-------------I, Fac-----Egypt 13. Bsor 7/32--------I, Fac-----Israel 14. Yasmin-----------I, Fac-----Israel 15. Yotvata 8--------I, Fac-----Israel 16. Yotvata 191------I, Fac-----Israel 17. En Yahav 4-------I, Fac-----Israel 18. En Yahav 5-------I, Fac-----Israel 19. Gyvataim---------I, Fac-----Israel 20. Turpentine Zill--I, Fac-----West Indies 21. Turpentine Miami-I, Fac-----West Indies 22. 4/9--------------I, Fac-----Kenya 23. Carabao----------I, Fac-----Philippines 24. Pico-------------I, Fac-----Philippines 25. Santaella--------I, Fac-----Puerto Rico 26. Kensington-------I, Bso-----Australia 27. Nam Doc Mai------I, Fac-----Thailand 28. Golelc-----------I, Fac-----Indonesia 29. Don Fernando-----PR, For----Puerto Rico 30. Colombo Kidney---PR, For----Ceylon 31. Mayaguez---------PR, For----Puerto Rico 32. Cubano-----------PR, For----Cuba 33. Manzano----------PR, For----Puerto Rico 34. Fasote-----------PR, For----Puerto Rico 35. Sabre------------I, Fac-----South Africa 36. Peach------------PR,For-----South Africa 37. Mora-------------I, Vol.----Costa Rica 38. Madam Francis----PR, For----Haiti 39. Gedong-----------I, Fac-----Indonesia 40. Kalpane----------I, Bso-----Thailand 41. Stringy----------I, Bso-----Jamaica 42. Black------------I, Bso-----Jamaica 43. Mango------------I, Bso-----Nigeria 44. Osabulu----------I, Bso-----Nigeria 45. Cherry-----------I, Bso-----Nigeria 46. Urnan------------I, Bso-----Nigeria 47. Ngowe------------I, Vol-----Kenya 48. Bombay S.A.------I, Vol-----South Africa 49. Olour------------LBso-------India 50. Faizanson--------I, Zn.-----Florida,USA 51. Katar Rum Rung---USA, Fla---Thailand 52. Hong Sa----------USA, Fla---Thailand 53. Praya Sowoy------USA, Fla---Thailand 54. Pam Kai Mia------USA, Fla---Thailand 55. Suwon Tip--------USA, Fla---Thailand 56. Kyo Sowoy--------USA, Fla---Thailand 57. Sang Tong--------USA, Fla---Thailand 58. Mamou------------USA, Fla---Thailand 59. Okrung-----------USA, Fla---Thailand 60. Leyat------------USA, Fla---Thailand 61. Pohn Sawadee-----USA, Fla---Thailand 62. Key Toop---------USA, Fla---Thailand 63. Nam Tan Teen-----USA, Fla---Thailand 64. Sad Lium Pua-----USA, Fla---Thailand 65. Madoe------------USA, Fla---Indonesia 66. Aroemanis--------USA, Fla---Indonesia 67. Saigon-----------USA, Da----Indochina 68. Winters----------I, Bso-----Florida,USA 69. Mistikawi--------I, Fac-----Egypt 70. Bullock's Heart--I, Fac-----Egypt 71. Gumera 1---------I, Fac-----Canary Islands 72. Warburg----------I, Fac-----Egypt 73. Yotvata 142------I, Fac-----Israel 74. Florigon---------PR, For----Florida,USA 75. Carnbodiana------USA, Fla---SE Asia 76. Saigon F2--------USA, Fla---SE Asia Mangifera species subgenus Mangifera 77. M. Iaurina 3--------PR,For---Malaysia 78. M. Iaurina 5--------PR,For---Malaysia 79. M. laurina 7--------PR,For---Malaysia 80. M. Iaurina 9--------PR,For---Malaysia 81. M. Iaurina 10-------PR,For---Malaysia 82. M. casturi---------USA,Fla---Malaysia  Subgenus Limus 83. M. odorata 1--------PR,For---Malaysia 84. M. odorata 2--------PR,For---Malaysia 85. M. odorata 4--------PR,For---Malaysia 86. M. odorata 8--------PR,For---Malaysia 87. M. caesia----------USA,Fla---Malaysia ---------------------------------------------------------- Country codes: I, Israel; PR, Puerto Rico; USA, United States of America. State or Department codes: Bso, Bsor; Fac, Faculty of Agriculture; Fla, Florida; For, Fortuna; Vol, Volcani Center; Zri, Zrifin >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - June 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 06/15/97 12 Reading: Have you read anything to pass along? The following may be of interest: Fruit Varieties Journal, April 1997 Page 76: UFGold Peach, 200 chill hours, just released in Florida by W. B. Sherman and P.M. Lyrene. Sounds like one several of us would like to own. Page 77:'Gitit' a New Surinam Cherry Cultivar (Isn't that a great name?) Gitit was selected in Naharia, northern Israel, and found superior to Necha, Lolita, and '404'(!) Fruit color is blood red. Taste varies from sweet-sour to sour-sweet in contrast to the other sour cultivars. It tends to be more sour in heavy soils. Can be harvested up to three days before maturity, with three-day shelf-life and two-week storage in refrigerators. It's adapted to all types of soils except highly calcareous. I hope it makes its way to Southern California. Page 117: Actinidia arguta - Characteristics Relevant to Commercial Production-Six cultivars of Actinidia arguta were grown in south coastal BritishColumbia and evaluated for yield, fruit development, and quality characteristics. Issai had a high vitamin C content, but flavour and appearance was higher for Geneva, Ananasnaya, and Dumbarton Oaks. --- Organic Gardening, July/August 1997, Page 18 - "Bounteous Bramble" Discussion of new Doyle Thornless Blackberry. 20 to 30 gallons from a single plant. Seven foot bush bears grape-like clusters with 20 to 100 berries per cluster. Sounds great, BUT the 4-inch pot price of $17.95 EACH sounds horrific. I'd like to have it, but I think I'll wait. Tropical Fruit News by Rare Fruit Council International May 1997: Page 7 Airlayering Made Easy, by William F. Whitman. Ahead of time, he fills and seals plastic bags with moistened sphagnum moss-moistened with a soluble fertilizer and rooting hormone. Then makes a cross-cut slice half-way across, and puts the sphagnum moss around the girdled limb. (I've seen this done by Tom DeHotal at Pacific Tree Farms, several years ago. It cuts down on the frustration of keeping the moss in place while positioning the plastic wrap and ties. Leo) Tropical Fruit News by Rare Fruit Council International April 1997: Page 5 "Revisiting the Miracle Fruit" by Donna McVicar Cannon I didn't know that this tree grows to a height of 18 ft in Africa. In the grove of William F. Whitman, (Florida) one is 16 ft tall! They begin to bear at 18 to 24 inches height, and sometimes as small as 7 inches. They have shown to be "a godsend" to at least cancer victim undergoing chemotherapy, which had destroyed the sense of taste. Pomona-Publication of NAFEX (North American Fruit Explorers) Spr 1997: Page 33 "Rooting Hormones May Increase Grafting Success" by Dr. James N. Cummins, N.Y. State Agricultural Experiment Station Seven varieties of apples were grafted, half of the trees had the cut side of the scion treated with a 2000 ppm solution of IBA (3-indolebutyric acid). Survival was greater for the IBA-treated grafts, and tree quality of the surviving grafts was equally striking. -------------------------- I have a question about mangoes. There is one in the Asian markets that is sold unripe. It's green with a slight red blush, and brings about 90 or more per pound. Does anyone know what variety this is? Few of the fruits look like they would have a viable seed, from which to grow a seedling. I found another one called Ataulfo, in an Asian market, pure yellow-gold skin, no blush. It ismentioned in Tropical Fruit News, I noticed later. It's described ashaving a pleasant sweet flavor when allowed to ripen. It came from Mexico. Another mango mentioned in Tropical Fruit News is Esperanza, from Mexico. It's used as an interstock for dwarfing mangoes. I'd like to know more about Esperanza. --------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:48:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Hi Leo: thanks for adding me to your newsletter. In a message dated 6/1/97 9:29:59 AM, you wrote: >Welcome, Dan. > >I'll put your letter in the June 1 issue of Rare Fruit News Online, >and I'm sure you'll get lots of help from our experienced grower- >readers. >I would think that raised beds would help somewhat, when the water >table is high. REPLY: We are building chinampas in some areas genuinely wet in the growing season. However I only know a few fruit that will tolerate having maybe onlya foot of drained growing medium above water table at the height of the growing season. We will be putting in as many mayhaws as we can afford, and probably other hatwthorns for medicinal purposes. Jujube, strangely, is reported to tolerate actual flooding in addition to serious drought--we may be eating a lot of jujube. I'm going to experiment with mulberries, plantingthe trees that we buy in places that I know are ok and putting cuttings onthe chinampas and in similar areas. Blueberries, being mat-rooted, can takevery high water table, but one only has time to pick so many blueberries. Ihave enough well drained space to grow all conventional fruit such ascitrus,peach, etc. There is a second part to the moisture problem, of course, and that is air moisture. We are unusually humid, even for Florida, and we need varieties that do well in humid air. Lots of fungal diseases can be a problem. Humidity is mainly an issue from dusk to dawn as we have strong westerlies most days. Bananas like it here, so long as we can keep them from frost and keep at least one of each variety where it never floods. Maybe it is not clear that a big part of my interest in wet tolerant, or better wet loving, fruits is that it enables us to use fruits in more settings, not that we don't have enough (for now at least) well drained area. Since most of the well drained area has a gentle easterly slope, we are rather well set. >>There will undoubtedly be fruit that will not do well with too >much moisture in the soil, such as papayas and avocado, and probably >others. The chill requirements are about what we have in parts of >California, and isn't a big barrier. >I wouldn't think winter drought would ever be a problem for you. << REPLY: Our water table dropped 4 feet this winter. That's a big adjustment for plants not evolved in such conditions. REPLY: In permaculture, we use everything in more than one way. A tree may be a good shade tree or it may have light shade that encourages growing cropsunder it. It can produce fuel, or have medicinal leaves, or serve as wind shelter for other trees. We need quite a lot of winbreak and it might aswell be from food trees as willows and locusts, etc. A tree might be a goodanimal forage, like a mulberry, which can be grown in the poultry pen.they'll pick up all the drops that I don't want anyway and the mulberrygrows better and shelters the brids and holds the bare soil that thepoultrydefoilate. Broadleafed trees, particularly deciduous, fast growing species,have a phenomenal effect on cooling an area. In hot climates, lots of treeshave been measured to reduce cooling loads by 30 to 50 percent--more ifthereis direct shade on the building. Wind resistant and wind fast are different properties, by the way. Kaki persimmons are sensitive to wind--they don't grow well in windy sites so I need other species upwind of them for shelter. Wind fast is another matter. In the tropics, you don't plant a mango by the house, despite thefantastic shade it casts, because they get massive and blow down in strong winds. Thisis where dwarf varieties might be useful, but dwarfs are more interesting to us because they are easier to protect from freezing. Hurricanes are another matter. They blow anything down--there is no preferred species. Tornados are worse. We have a comparatively high incidence of both here and it is hit or miss. Root crops are good survival insurance and a nursery bed for rootstocks, so that blown trees can be quickly regrafted. Thanks for your input. The newsletter is interesting. I think I will get more out of it as time goes along as I seem to have come into the middle of anumber of conversations and do not know about a few of the fruit you have been discussing at all. I'm happy to answer a reasonable number of questions pertaining to permaculture as my contribution, as I am still amassing information about growing in this provenance. Dan Hemenway ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Ted Kapantais I'm Ted Kapantais, and I live in Sarasota. Norman Rotabaugh told me about your newsletter. I have over 100 trees in the ground and many in pots. Among them are mangos,white sapote, lychee, loquat, presimmon, sugar apple, atemoya, carambola, jaboticaba, Asian pear, guave, fig, and sapodila. I'll send you the information on frost protection soon. Ted Kapantais -------------------------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 06/01/97 11 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:40:18 -0400 I, too, am eager to hear about Ted's frost-protection system! It was very interesting to read about Dan Hemenway's microclimate. Do you live on an island, Dan? Regarding your question about what to plant, I would recommend most varieties of persimmons (they're perfect for central Florida), depending on whether you like the astringent or non-astringent types, 'Celeste' and 'Brown Turkey' figs, carambolas, lychees, longans, white sapotes, Surinam cherries (it's hard to find named cultivars), grumichamas, papayas, jujubes, pitombas, pineapples, calamondins, Mexican or Guatemalan avocados, and passion-fruit vines (the purple form of Passiflora edulis is good--plant as many varieties as possible). Feijoas can do well here, I have been told, but I have not had success yet. Apparently I need different cultivars to pollinate each other. The two that I have are probably the same cultivar. Loquats are also perfectly adapted to this climate: I recommend 'Premier,' 'Thales,' 'Oliver,' and 'Bartow.' Pomegranates would be good for dry areas in your yard. -- Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) --------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Moskowitz I bought a 'black persimmon' from a nursery in Ventura. Planted properly but the tree never did grow. Instead, there are shoots from the root stock. How can I save the effort, if at all? Joel Moskowitz ---------- Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 06:30:45 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Joel, if you know anyone with a black persimmon, you can graft a piece of it onto your rootstock. I think it's so much easier to graft onto young root suckers, than onto old wood, that when I need to graft over an older tree (almost any kind,) I usually cut back the older tree close to the ground, and graft onto the suckers that come up. You only need one successful graft on the rootstock, but I will often place two or three, to increase the odds of the graft succeeding. Of course, you could try returning the tree to the nursery. I'd call to ask what the policy on replacing trees that don't grow. Leo ----------- Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:44:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Good idea. Was planning to let the shoots develop anyway. Frankly I don't know much about black persimmons. So will turn to the written word and try to find out. The black persimmon was bought during a sojurn in Ventura. Not a place I frequent or like to. So giving it back to nursery not likely to happen. If you know of anyone with a black persimmon who would generously donate somewhich could be grafted onto the existing root stock, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your response. Best, Joel ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:57:58 -0700 From: Bart Tibbals My name is Bart Tibbals, I live in Lake County, Florida (Central Florida). I am growing Fuyu Persimmons. Currently I have around 300 trees that are 1 year old trees and just set out 260 native root stock seedlings that will hopefully be ready to bud the Fuyu to in September. I am interested in sharing tips and communicating problem solving with other persimmon growers. I am a member of the Florida Persimmon Grower's Association. We are wanting to make it known for anyone who is growing persimmons of all varieties. This chapter offers great support for the backyard grower as well as in my case a small a small commercial orchard of 10 acres. For more information about the FPGA, E-mail Lou Lowder (Secretary) at LLowder779@aol.com or Bart Tibbals (btibbals@unix.cde.com). Regards, Bart Tibbals ------------------------------------------ From: "Holzinger, Bob" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:26:10 -0700 Hi Leo, Just a few comments to answer questions in the newsletter. To David Rack: The mulberry I really like is the "Pakistani". It's 2-3" long and even though it's a dark color, it doesn't bleed like the Black Persian. Another choice could be a white fruited cultivar, like "Phil's White" or "Giant White". They have no problem with the staining you see with most dark mulberry fruit and are very sweet. To Ed Gribble: To clean papaya seeds I just put them in a section of newspaper and roll the top sheets of paper around with my hands to break the little bag around each seed, then put the paper somewhere dry and cool for a couple of days. Once the seeds have dried I have found them to be viable for months and I have not have any problem with molds with this method. By the way, this is the way I harvest passiflora seeds for planting later. As for a mango source, I would recommend planting several seeds from good tasting polyembryonic mangos and then looking for a source of wood. If you don't find a source, then grow the seedlings. This will take more time then buying a grafted tree and in Southern California the sources I would check first are Exotica Nursery in Vista, Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista and Tim Thompson in Camarillo (the new mango expert for CRFG). Good luck! Talk to you later, Bob --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 15:39:41 UT From: "Eileen Czerniawski" Hi I'm growing citrus (orange, grapefruit, tangerine) and fig in Palm Bay, Fl. I have just purchased a Lychee tree and a Carambola. Also have banana trees that are slowly taking over the rear corner of my yard, but no bananas. Thanks for any help. Eileen ------------------------------------- From: "Chris Marrs" Subject: Jack fruit, Durian, Mangosteen Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:37:06 -0700 Hello, I have recently seen jack fruit trees for sale at some orange county nurseries. I am wondering if you know of anyone who has success growing them in Orange county. I am also interested in growing Durian and Mangosteen. (I have friends from Burma). I live in Foothill Ranch and am wondering about the tolerance of these trees to near freezing temperatures Sincerely Chris Marrs >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - June 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 07/01/97 13 Names of new subscribers show up with every issue. (I believe there are nine new ones this time!) Usually they have a particular focus, and perhaps a question that they want help them with. I hope that you won't let them down. Even if they don't have a particular question, if they live near you, maybe you could let them know? If you are a new subscriber and want back issues to January 1, please let me know. The file is large, maybe 270k, which is an issue if you subscribe to Juno. Remember to either cc ("carbon copy") me when you write to another subscriber, or send the mail for me to include in the next issue of RFNO. I use Netscape to send out this letter, and am continually bothered by little glitches. I paste copy into e-mail, with even margins, or fairly so, but as soon as it goes through the mail, it gets sloppy, with lines cut off with only a few characters, then continued on the following lines. Maybe it's not Netscape's fault? Is this something that happens with other e-mail software? ------------------------------------------------ The latest issue of Fruit Gardener, July/Aug 1997, has several interesting articles. There's a picture of Durian on the cover. The article headings include: Protecting Your Mulberry Crop - Five ways to scare (fool) the birds Che: a.k.a. Chinese Mulberry, by Don Gholston In Search of the "Black Doris" Plum Travel Tips for (Fruit) Lovers, by Peggy Winters. A Springtime Field trip to a Northern Calif. Garden The Indian Mulberry - The Fruit You Love To Hate (terrible tasting!) California Farm Conference Workshops (Mulching practices in orchards) What If? Looking at CRFG web page and its links. Cultivation of Hearts of Palm in Costa Rica 'Selma': The Pink-Fleshed Cherimoya (and its seeds for sale in the back) ------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:23:22 -0700 From: "Jose M. Gallego" Leo, Regarding the Ataulfo, I got a couple from Comercial Mexicana in Tijuana the same day we had the Fair at Quail. Before the wedding, we went there and purchased some items, among them were these mangos. They were sweet, juicy but small and with some fiber. I also got a box of the mangoes from CostCo, I planted 3 seeds and they are now about 6-8" tall, beautiful deep green leaves. I will keep you posted on those. I don't know what is their cultivar name. Take care, Jose ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 10:52:48 -0500 From: moshe nadler Hi Leo! Regarding the 'Gitit'. I'm an Israeli, I was born in Nahariya. The fruit is called Pitanga. I know the researcher who developed this cultivar. His name is Dr. Emanuel Lahav. The name he gave to this cultivar is the name of his wife. (I'm his son's friend so I even ate some fruits from the Gitit trees that are in his garden...) Moshe >Hi, Moshe! > >I have pitanga (surinam cherry) trees, and really like some of them. > >Did you find the cultivar to be better than most others? > >Leo Leo, I find the gitit, much better then the others. In Israel I used to make very good jams from it. moshe ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:00:07 -0700 (PDT) From: mshugart@ucsd.edu (Matthew Shugart) I am intrigued any time I read of a new low-chill stone fruit. Do you have any more information about the UF Gold? My primary specialty is stone fruits. I have a high-density backyard orchard in Carlsbad, Calif., about 1.5 miles from the ocean in a low-lying area where a surprising amount of chilly air settles in the winter. Right now, I am just beginning to harvest apricots from an old tree of unknown variety that I "inherited" when I bought the property in 1995. It appears not to be a Royal (Blenheim) but rather a Newcastle, though as an older tree I suppose it could be some strain of Royal that is no longer widely available. It is later by a week or more than my Royal or the other apricots around the area, which I presume are mostly Royals. It has a duller color, and a slightly milder flavor. All that seems to fit book descriptions of Newcastle, but it is hard to be sure. Whatever it is, it sure is enjoyable to harvest fresh apricots from the tree! Does anyone have any experience with a peach called 'Shanghai'? This is a variety that is supposed to be low-chill (300 hours, says L.E. Cooke and good for zone 24, says Sunset) and very tasty, as well as probably the latest ripening low-chill peach. I have one that I planted from a 5 gallon can late last winter but it has been sort of staggering, almost like a tree that did not get enough chill. (I know my area and the location of the nursery exceed 300 hours by a good margin.) It is sending out vigorous new shoots now, but was still dormant in late April! It has one fruit on it, even though the older wood has very little foliage (but still all appears viable). I checked at the nursery where I bought it and their remaining trees are all in the same condition. So I wonder if anyone has grown it and found it to be either higher in chill than indicated or just exceptionally late to start growing in the spring. My first try at grafting has been pretty successful. I grafted five scions of various plum and apricot varieties on to some of my young plum and apricot trees. Three of them (Methley, Howard Miracle, and Satsuma plums) have taken! One was growing within six days and I could hardly believe my eyes! The last one took about five weeks. Chris Marrs had a question about jackfruit trees. I wonder where in Orange County he saw them being sold? I know that Dave Silber (Papaya Tree Nursery in Granada Hills) sells them, but he also says that he knows of no producing trees in California outside of greenhouses. Chris also asks about mangosteen. There was a thread on this topic a few months ago on the USENET site alt.agriculture.fruit and the consensus seemed to be that only in a location as warm as the Florida Keys would mangosteen be successful in the mainland states (I guess the Keys aren't exactly "mainland"!). I'd be very curious to know if anyone has any more promising information about jackfruit or mangosteen. I hope in a week or two to be able to report on my attempts at growing pluots! Good growing. Matthew Shugart ------------------------------------- To: chrismarrs@pcmagic.net From: moshe nadler Hi! I read your letter at Leo's site. Regarding your question - don't even think twice about growing mangosteens or durians if the temperature in your area will get close to frost. You can grow avocados (some cultivars, and also depend on the period of time you have a frost), or try other sub-tropical fruits, but tropicals such as the above will be killed by frost. Sincerely Moshe ----------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:45:59 -0400 From: W. B. Sherman Subject: Re: Low-Chill Stone Information Sought Send me your address and I'll mail you the info on UFGold peach. Some budwood is being cut now under contract with the FFSP,Inc. (info included) for nurseries but probably will not be available to the general public in quantity till winter 98-99 as budwood is now being increased and because of a short supply of nematode resistant seed this year (Nemaguard was frozen out in Georgia and SE US last year resulting in few available for this years budding). We expect UFGold to be grown where Flordaglo is successful. regards, wbs you wrote: >I want to get more information about the new peach, UF Gold, for our >newsletter, Rare Fruit News Online. The newsletter is directed >primarily at growers of subtropical fruit, but many of them are >keenly interested in growing low-chill stone fruit. > >I'd like a source of information about all such releases from the >University of Florida. > >Thanks for your help, and for your research into low-chill peaches. > >Leo UFGold info is in the mail. Burchell Nsy. has propagation rights and he just got budwood so it may be a year before he builds it up enough to bud any supplies. regards W. B. Sherman ---------------------------------- 'UFGold' Peach W. B. SHERMAN AND P. M. LYRENE 'UFGold' is an attractive, high quality' yellow and nonmelting flesh peach released by the Florida Agricultural Experiment Station. 'UFGold' is expected to produce fruit with a tree ripened full flavor while retaining firmness for longer shelf life than fruit from conventional melting-flesh, fresh market varieties. 'UFGold' originated from a cross of two Florida selections with nonmelting FIesh (Figure 11. The seed parent was of Brazilian origin (Diamante open pollinated) and the pollen parent originated by open pollination of a seedling obtained by crossing a Florida selection (not carrying a nonmelting flesh allele) and a North Carolina selection (apparently heterozygous for the nonmelting allele). 'UFGold' was selected from about 100 sibs as the twenty-fourth selection in 1990 and thus designated Fla. 90-24c for testing. The major advantages of 'UFGold' are a low chilling requirement, early ripening, a nonmelting flesh, and an attractive skin exhibiting 70-90% bright red over an orange yellow ground color. Trees are estimated to require 200 chill units, the same as 'Flordaglo' peach. 'UFGold' has fruited where the coldest month averages 16 to 17C and in colder locations in the absence of spring frosts. This corresponds to the area from Orlando to Leesburg in Florida. Full bloom generally occurs in early February, an fruit ripens in late April to early May in this area, about 80 lays after full bloom and about five days before 'Flordaglo.' Trees are semi spreading and are easily pruned to a vase shape. Trees set a high number of flower buds, have few blind nodes, and exhibit little bud failure. Fruit have averaged about 110 grams and 2X inches diameter where fruit were thinned to 6 to 8 inches apart. Fruit shape is nearly round and flesh contains little red on non- stressed trees. Flesh is nonmelting and clingy with a little separation from the stone when soft ripe. Pits have shown little tendency to split, even when crop loads were low. Leaves have small, reniform petiolar glands. Flowers are showy and pink. Anthers are mostly yellow with little anthocyanin and pollen is bright yellow and abundant. Leaves and fruit are moderately resistant to bacterial spot. A plant patent has been filed for 'UFGold' and a propagation agreement is available through Florida Foundation Seed Producers, Inc., P0. Box 309, Greenwood, FL 32443. Budwood is non-indexed, but Florida stonefruit germplasm has been found to be mostly virus free in countries that routinely quarantine and index. ---------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:58:27 -0400 From: Ricky Maseda Dear Friend: I am a rare fruit grower in Florida and would like to be put on your mailing list. I am a member of CRFG & 2 local clubs - Rare Fruit Council International - Tampa Bay Chapter & The Manatee RFCI. Sincerely yours, Ricky Maseda Tampa, Florida ---------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:42:42 -0600 From: Terry Bordelon Leo..... Sounds like your mailing list may be helpful in my attempts at a low maintenance fruit orchard. I am trying to remain organic and desire species which will do well without non-organic inputs. I am located in SW Louisiana, zone 7/8. I presently have native persimmon, fig, Oriental apple type pear. I am interested in adding other varieties, especially jujube which used to be common in Louisiana when I was a child but is rare at this time. Merci......terry Bordelon ------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:52:31 -0700 From: Mike Lima Hi Leo, My name is Michael, and I followed a link on the CRFG website to yours. I've been a member of CRFG for a few years now. I live in the San Bernardino area. I am interested in info on growing rare fruits, in particular the sugar apple (annona squamosa). I obtained seeds of a delicious sugar apple fruit about 6 weeks ago which I planted after about 1 week, but as yet there is no sign of germination. Is anyone growing sugar apples here in southern California? I would sure like to know about any special care they may require. Thank you, Mike --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:31:00 +0300 From: Haidar Nesheiwat Subject: Guava Dear Leo; My name is Haidar Nesheiwat; I live in Amman Jordan. I have a farm with almost 2000 tree of guava over ten year and about 10,000 tree about 3 years old; the farm is located 3 miles east of the dead see in Jordan. It is about the international sea level. I am interested in find out as much as i can about it; especially how to market it and how to process it. It has been few month trying to find out what does it take to make guava puree and what kind of machine or equipment is needed and how to handle it. Thanks for putting my name on your list. Haidar R. NESHEIWAT -------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:59:47 -0400 (EDT) From: GKapantais@aol.com Subject: frost protection Here's the information about my frost protection system. Sorry I took so long, but I've been busy. I have developed a system that works for me. So I'm not recommending this system to anyone else, but merely sharing it with you for information purposes. Here in Sarasota, the cold fronts usually come from the northwest. So the first thing I did was to plant a windbreak of evergreen viburnum odorodum, which now are about 14 feet tall. On the west side, I have a natural Florida "jungle". I use two high and low thermostats, which are made for controlling automatic ventilation or heating in livestock barns or poultry houses. I can set them from 30 degrees F. to 110 degrees (0 to 43 degrees C.). These thermostats are very easy to install. The first one I put above my water valve. I simply disconnected one of the two wires that works the valve and I went first to the thermostat and then back to the valve. I set this thermostat at 34 degrees F. The second thermostat, which operates like a switch on my electrical line, controls the 100 watt light bulbs. I set this second thermostat at 36 degrees F. I use several different types of frost protection. The first is the windbreak mentioned above. The second involves the fertilization of my trees for the last time in the fall. I use very low nitrogen but high in potash and minor elements. Third, I water the ground under my trees one or two days before frost is predicted. Fourth, I use misters for trees that can take water, such as mangoes, litchis, (not the Mauricius because their branches break easily from ice load), carambolas, guavas, etc. For these young trees 10 feet or less in height, I add covers that I have made of Typar. The second thermostat controls my light bulbs to protect the water sensitive trees, such as white sapote, sugar apples, etc. On the big trees, I use 4 100 watt bulbs only. Unbelievable as it may seem, it works for me. Could it be that the glow of the light bulbs awakens the trees and the chlorophyll in the leaves starts moving and the movement of the chlorophyll creates sugar, which creates heat, which adds some degrees of warmth and protection to the trees? On the water sensitive trees that are 10 feet or less tall, I add covers I've made out of inexpensive 4 mill plastic. What frames do I use to hang these covers on? The frames are made of 4 18 inch long PVC pipes which I drive into the ground, leaving 12 inches empty of soil. I place them 8 feet apart, creating a square. In them I insert 4 EMT pipes 3/4 inch or 1 inch by 10 feet long on top of the frame. I connect the EMT pipes with 2 10 feet long thin wall PVC pipes, which at the ends, I put elbows with 6 inch PVC attached to them. I set the frames up all winter long, and I remove them in spring, when the possibility of frost is gone. In the 6 years since I started growing tropical fruit trees, I've had one 22 degree advective freeze, twice a 23 degree radiant frost, and several times temperatures from 26 degrees to 34 degrees F. So far, one Mamay Sapote (Pantin), loaded with fruit, one Longan (Kohala) and two big leaf Jaboticabas were damaged 3 feet above the ground. It was 22 degrees F advective freeze . All I used was 4 100 watt light bulbs on each one. One of my 2 Baileys Marvel mango is loaded with beautiful tasting mangoes again. Six months ago its flowers survived 22 degrees F radiant frost with one mister underneath and a second above it. Two winters ago, it survived again (with a 22 degree F. advective freeze), this time with no other protection than 4 100 watt light bulbs. Only small outside branches were frozen. As for my Nam Doc Mai mango, the ice put it into dormancy, but this year on the 15th of March, I sprayed one of the three main branches with calcium nitrate. Now that branch is loaded with flowers and small mangoes (pea size), while the rest of the tree is still in dormancy. In my yard, the small leaf Jaboticabas fare much better in the cold than the big leaf. Also the same with the Brewster litchi, which fares better than the other 9 varieties that I have. I also have better success with the Bailey's Marvel and Valencia Pride mangoes. Next winter I'll find out about its offspring, the Valcarrie. (ValCarrie sounds like a mango I'd like. Leo) Hope this info is useful to you. --------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:21:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Hoy Yes, please put me on your mailing list. I'm am interested in Passion fruit. "Jack Fruit" Grenadine, Spanish Lime, and Soursop. Thank you, Tim Hoy ----------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:56:49 -0400 From: Bill Lady Dear Leo: I purchased a beautiful and healthy looking 7 ft. litchee plant today. The person at the nursery didn't know anything about the plant, but it has a tag, "Brewster". I can't seem to locate a web site I have previously visited which has a lot of information on the litchee, longan, and other plants I am interested it. Apparently I have lost the bookmark I had on this site. I planted a litchee of unknown variety two years ago, and a cold snap killed it. I wonder if you can tell me anything about the Brewster variety, especially its fruit characteristics and quality and its cold hardiness. I am in Punta Gorda, Florida, at the lower edge of Zone 9. We seem to have a light freeze or two each winter. I have a longan which is doing exceptionally well, and I have high hopes for this new litchee. Thanks for keeping me on your list, and best regards. Bill Lady ---------- Bill, I just paid $70 for one about that size. Brewster seems most reliable in all around performance. Did you follow any leads from CRFG? http://www.crfg.org/ They are likely to lead you where you want to go. I've found other links, just fooling around, but it would take a while to find them again. Anyway, I believe you'll be happy with that selection, and I hope El Nino doesn't bring a freeze that kills it. It is threatening to be a bad winter, from the newscasts. I'll include your question in the next newsletter. Your welcome! Leo ------ Dear Leo: Thanks for your reply. After sending the message to you I did a few searches using the preferred spelling (lychee), and rediscovered the crfg web site. This is the one I had used previously, and it's back in my bookmarks again. I also found several other sites which you may be interested in following up on: http://www.tropical fruit.com http://www.milcom.com/ace/world/rap/lychee.HTML http://safarinet/~lychee/ The milcom site is informative since it covers the production and trade by countries and areas. I am not going to put in a commercial grove, but found these details very interesting. For some reason, the bearing season in Israel is different from other locations in the northern hemisphere and their fruit sells at a premium. lychees were originally planted in Honduras by United Fruit Company on an experimental basis, but the groves were never enlarged and developed for the export market. All of the production is sold locally at a good price, and I don't believe any are exported. These are grown in the Sula Valley, which is near sea level, very hot, and with a high rainfall. The CRFG site mentions an ideal chill factor of 200 hours, and this is certainly not met where they are grown in Honduras, since the temperature never gets below about 60 degrees F. Apparently the chill factor is unimportant, or the Honduran trees may be of a variety which doesn't require this. I have seen the groves in Honduras, but have never heard what variety is grown there.=20 The tropical fruit site, in Ft. Lauderdale, has some interesting photographs. They sell 8 foot trees for $150.00, so the price you paid for your tree seems reasonable. I paid only $40.00 for my 7 ft. tree at a very small local nursery for some reason, and it is a very fine plant. They only had three plants in stock, and I was surprised to find them available locally. Best regards, Bill ----------------------------------------- From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (Bill Monroe) Subject: Subject of Rare Fruit Hello, My name is Bill Monroe and I live in Palm Bay, Florida. I use to landscape with ornamentals but in the last three years discovered edible landscaping. Edible landscaping eventually brought me to rare fruits. In my not-so-big backyard I am growing: Carombola (Carrie, Feung Tung) Papaya (Solo) Jaboticaba lychee Guava (Pineapple and yellow) Longan White Sapote (mine withstands the cold) Barbados cherry Sugar Apple Banana (Orenoco, Praying hands, apple, mysore) Eventually these trees will become very large, but with me planting and collecting rare fruits is an obsession (My wife agrees. Ha!). I am interested in new varieties of carombola and passion fruit. In addition, how have others fared in growing and fruiting the white sapote? Myself and other members of the Brevard county rare fruit council are heavy into mulching. Some of us have mulched our entire backyards with free city mulch to a depth of 2.5 feet. Why? John Rodgers, the first one to do this has been very successful with this method. John mimics the natural jungle environment by planting tropical fruit trees very close together, and with the mulch he never waters or fertilizes. Granted everything looks crowded, but so does the jungle. John's fruit are always large and tasty. Has anybody else tried this method to its extreme? Best Regards Bill Monroe wmonroe@harris.com Palm Bay, Florida P.S. Please subscribe me to the "Rare Fruit News Online". Thank you. -------------------------------------- Date: Fri Jun 20 09:04:28 1997 From: Holzinger, Bob Leo, I have a couple of H. undatus plants, but they haven't flowered much so I can't say if they are self-fruitful or not. George Emerich has a huge plant growing in the jacaranda tree in his driveway area and he says he gets fruit, but you'll have to ask him if it's self-fruitful. The flowers are spectacular and from what little fruit I have tasted, I would say the same of it. Good luck in the search. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:59:12 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Dear Leo I have a half dozen types of hylocerus growing in Studio City under adverse circumstances -- but I know little about them. I got them from Paul Thomson who knows a lot about them. I was over there one day after he had been pruning the collection he has and had a pile of trimmings. I asked for samples and of course he obliged and the all rooted eventually -- it took one of them more than a year. Unfortunately I no longer have his comments as to their identity, but he is the guy to see on this. He said that they do grow these for fruit in Columbia. The other guy is Dave Silber who sells a couple of different kinds commercially. Bob --------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:10:29 -0700 From: George Emerich Leo: I am a novice as far as Hylocerus species are concerned. My mentors are Paul Thompson, Dave Silber and Gene Friedlander. I think that the Colombian specimen may be the one that Paul mentioned last night as one that Dave & Tina have. Unfortunately, none of those worthies have email at the moment I don't believe. George ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT) From: mshugart@ucsd.edu (Matthew Shugart) Yes, Pitahaya (I think that is the correct spelling) is outstanding. I first tasted it in Nicaragua in 1989. There may be different varieties, but I do not know. I recall an article some years ago in Fruit Gardener. I have some growing in my yard, but no fruit yet. I got mine from one of Exotica's main competitors, Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista. Matthew Shugart -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:00:39 -0700 From: Jim Meadows I talked with the people at the booth at the Del Mar Fair and they suggested I post my problem here. I have three Macadamia nut trees, two are a commercial variety and bear their fruit all at one time, and one tree bears nuts almost year round. The latter tree even though the nuts are normal size and look good when I crack the the meat is split in two pieces and dry (chewy). About 75% of the nuts are this way. One on the commercial trees is right next to this tree and has no problems. This problem has only occurred the last two years. Up till then the nuts were great with yields of 90% or more. Thanks in advance for the help. Jim Meadows --------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:58:41 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Leo, I would appreciate any of the readers comments, lessons learned, best practices on growing and fruiting "Carombola" and "White Sapote". I live in Palm Bay, Florida on fairly high ground. My carambolas and white sapotes are heavily mulched. 1. How often do I fertilize? 2. What are the best (sweet) varieties (Subjective, I know )? Any information would be much appreciated. Thank you. Best Regards, Bill Monroe ------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:42:26 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Moshe Nadler Subject: Mango seedlings that die young. Moshe, probably 2/3 of the mangoes I grew from seedling last year, died. Those that died were not vigorous growers from the beginning, but died several months after coming up. What soil (mix?) do you use, or fungicide, to keep the damping off (if that's what it is) from happening? I sprouted my most recent seeds in perlite, but will transplant them into larger pots and into a soil mix. At what age or size do you graft them? I usually wait until a seedling is about 2 feet tall. Leo ---------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:08:26 -0400 From: moshe To: Leo Manuel Hi Leo! We use a soil mix that we buy from 'fafard'. It's called growing mix. But you can use any other mix. I would combine the perlite with peat moss and sand, or vermiculite. We almost don't spray the seedlings in the greenhouse, but we try not to irrigate them to much in order not to get the diseases. We graft the seedlings when they are big and thick enough, I think that 2' is OK. And a diameter of about 1/2". Anyway, transplant the seedlings at least one month before grafting. Let the plant arrange it root system first. From the literature I can tell you that it's better to leave the seedling at least 6 months from germination (a year is better), and then graft it. Less then 6 months grafts, are less successful. If you expect high humidity after grafting, also don't graft, wait for dry season. Moshe ----------------------------------------- From: "Ronald Lyn" Subject: Lychee Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:06:55 -0500 Hi, I was wondering can anyone tell me if they know of any dwarf varieties of Lychee. That would seem to be the perfect potted fruit tree, if there only was such a thing. Thanks Leo, Ronald Lyn ----------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:36:42 +0000 To: Holzinger, Bob [Note: Bob's the passiflora man] Subject: Recommend a passiflora to climb in my Inga? Bob, is there a passiflora that requires partial shade, that would be good to climb in a tree? I'd like for the fruit to be less sour than most, if possible, and attractive flowers would also be good. Leo --------------------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passiflora from heaven Hi Leo, I'm sorry, God hasn't delivered the prodigal passiflora yet, you'll just have to wait for it like the rest of us mortals. The ultimate cool grower according to Patrick is a new hybrid that he and Rick McCain have in Watsonville, but are not ready to release. It is the following crosses: ((P. mollissima x P. mixta) x P. manicata) x P. ampulacea. The flower won't be that great (light green to white in the Tacsonia tubular form) but the fruit is supposed to be good and the vine is supposed to be self-fruitful. I have a picture of the flower and hopefully will get to taste a fruit sometime this year, but we'll see. In the meantime your only choice may be P. ligularis. It will take shade and has a nice flower and a great fruit. The only drawbacks are it's slow growth and that it may need a cross pollinator. Since bees don't seem to do the job in this neck of the woods, I don't think you want to climb up in a tree to hand pollinate the flowers. There are other Tacsonias that are reported to have good tasting fruits, but they are hard to find and equally hard to grow (they don't like our water). So I'll keep you posted on the developments up north. A passiflora you may want to try since it is quite warm at your place is P. serrato-digitata. It needs to get big before it flowers, but the smell of the flower is worth the wait and the fruit is supposed to be good. Ben Poirier in Fallbrook has propagated it and he may be talked into a trade if you have something he's interested in. Give him a call at 751-1605. Later, Bob ------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:33:34 +0000 Subject: Is the Capulin is self-fruitful? I gave a friend a Capulin Cherry, probably Fausto seedling. It isn't very old, but he wants me to find out whether the Capulin is self-fruitful (as I have guessed) or needs a pollinator. Of course, it could vary from variety to variety. I have three varieties (Fausto, Fausto, and Ecuadorian), so I can't tell by my own experience, and the references I have say a lot of things, but not whether they are self-fruitful. For me, the Harriet is earlier than either of the others. Leo -------------------------------------- To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Inga Tree From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:31:31 EDT Leo, At the San Diego CRFG meeting, I won something that Jim Neitzel identified as an Inga tree. When I was at your house buying plants last month, it seemed as though you had one in your front yard. What can you tell me about its care and feeding? You also said you published an newsletter. Could I get added to its distribution? Bill Burson PowayBill@juno.com --------- Bill, I planted my Inga, by chance, in the only place in my whole yard that it should be planted. Be very sure you want such a tree, as it grows fast, large, spreading, and develops the "Ice Cream Bean" for which it is (in)famous. This can detract from the overall beauty of the tree. Mine was in a five-gallon pot only five years ago, and now it is (hard to estimate) maybe 20 feet tall and as wide. The bloom is similar to that of Rose Apple, briefly beautiful, slight aroma. The beans are about 12 inches in length, with a diameter of 1.5 inches. The "stuff" surrounding the seeds, inside the bean pods is sweet - kids like it. For me, it's worth growing for the shade and overall beauty. For care, I'd say it doesn't want much. I give it only a moderate amount of water, and little fertilizer. I'm frequently pruning it as it gets over the street and driveway. Neighbors and visitors of neighbors like to park in front of the house in the shade. In other words, be very sure you want the tree in the place you're about to plant it. It isn't worth growing for the bean pods, but it is an excellent front-yard shade tree. And, thanks for your contributions to this newsletter already! Leo --------------------------------------------------------- Correspondence between Bill Burson and Don Gholston about Che, provided by Bill: From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) To: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Che questions I bought 2 plant about three years ago from Exotica Nursery in Vista, CA. One each male and female, they are planted about 12-18 inches from each other. I have two questions: If one is male and the other female, why do they both bear fruit equally? I've heard the best method of propagation is air layering, what is the best time of the season to begin this? Bill Burson --------------------- On Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:58:52 -0400 (EDT) DGholston@aol.com writes: Dear Bill: If you are getting fruit, there must be a male and a female lurking somewhere. Possibly one or both plants is bearing both male and female flowers. Have you read my article on the che in the July-Aug. Fruit Gardener? It describes what male and female flowers look like. It also discusses propagation. Che cuttings root so easily, I would not recommend the bother of air layering. Regards. Don Gholston ---------------------- From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) To: DGholston@aol.com (Don Gholston) Thank you for your quick response, 1) Should I Root hardwood or softwood? 2) Yes, I was reading you article in FG. Excellent job. My confusion was why both were fruiting equally? Bill Burson ------------------------------ From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) To: llowder779@aol.com Cc: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Chocolate Persimmon I have had a grafted tree in my yard for ~ 3 years. Each flowering cycle I get lots of blossoms but no fruit ever sets. My Fuyu P., Black Sapote and Chico Sapote all flower and set. The Chocolate P. is probably only 20 feet from the others. Any suggestions for next season? Bill Burson --------------------- Jim Neitzel has just obtained a 386 Windows 95 computer, has an e-mail address, and will be among our grower-reader subscribers. He and Don Gholston are both walking encyclopedias of information about things botanical. I'll swear that Jim knows more about the trees in my own yard than I do. While I'm reaching for the name tags, he'll already have identified them! Jim hasn't ever used a computer and is intimidated by everything thrown at him at once. He has Word Perfect, but no manual for it, and expects to buy a manual. I've had the notion that there must be lower-level word processors that are so intuitive that you don't need a manual. If you know anything about the ease and utility of any of them, would you let me know, before I install them on his computer? Jim's a great friend and I sure want him to succeed in "telecommunicating" as I'd very much like his input in this newsletter. His email will be: jneitzel@juno.com Leo ------------------------------------- Subject: horticultural tour.HTML Here's a site I just stumbled across. Perhaps it's been noted before, but I don't recall. It sounds as if it could lead to several bits of interesting information, but I've only scanned across some of the topics. It's called horticultural tour.HTML, and some of the information available is below: HortGuideŽ:Ethnobotany http://www.horticulture.com/tour.HTML What is Ethnobotany & Why is it so Important The Food Plant Database The Native Tech Home Page The Laboratory of Ethnobotany @ the University of Michigan Anne Arbor American Indian ethnobotany Missouri Botanical Garden EthnoMedicinals Home Page Medical Plant Images Plants of the Machiquena, an Ethnobotanical Study of Eastern Peru Kew Ethnobotany Ethnobotany ETHNOBOTANY PROJECT 1996-1997 Institute of Traditional Medicine CyberBotanica- Plants and Cancer Treatments- Indiana University The Sego Ethnobotany Project The Ethnobotany Cafe >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - July 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 07/15/97 14 My Rose Apple tree is coming in, with quite a few fruit. For those who don't know, the rose apple smells like a fragrant rose, and tastes the way a rose smells, if you can imagine. I enjoy eating them out of hand, but I've never seen recipes for doing anything else with them. I'd expect that candied they'd be tasty. I'm disappointed that my mango crop is going to be so small this year. Maybe 25 fruit or possibly a few more, as opposed to 175 last year. I think it's water and fertilizer that I needed to apply more of and sooner. At least two trees didn't even bloom! I bought a grafting tool (Field Craft's Topgrafter) from A.M. Leonard (I believe it was) a while back, after hearing several local CRFG members talk about it, and the local chapter even bought one. Anyway, after trying it a few times, I don't really like it, and will probably sell it. If you have used it, what's your opinion? Are you getting better takes? I can see that it might be faster, but I don't have the same confidence that I've had over the years. If I'm going to take time to graft, I want it to have the highest possible probability of succeeding. I appreciate the cc's you've sent when writing to each other. I try to include the letter in the next newsletter. And for those who have sent to me the mail for other growers, I have immediately sent a copy to the intended person, and kept one to include in this newsletter. When you come across information that would be of interest to the group, please send it along. If you're not sure, send it anyway, and I'll check it out. ------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Jun 30 20:08:19 1997 From: "Oliver Patterson" My fig trees are not doing well at all. The leaves are turning brown and falling off. I am guessing that the problem is fig rust, but it's possible that nematodes are causing the damage (or contributing to it). I'm not sure. I have sprayed the leaves but this has done little good; perhaps because it rains every day here. Any ideas? Oliver Patterson ----------------- To Bart From Oliver Patterson I live in Lake County, too, and I think that this area is perfect for growing persimmons. I would love to see your orchard and (if possible) buy some fruit from you when your trees begin producing. I planted two persimmon trees today, but I am doubtful of their survival. One of them had a taproot that must have been at least 3 feet long coiled on the bottom of the container. I had to prune it severely. The tree's leaves have already begun to turn brown and fall off. I am hoping for a miracle. Oliver Patterson ----------- To Eileen From Oliver Patterson I am growing lychees and carambolas, too, though I have to worry about severe freezes while you don't! If you have any questions about their culture, let me know. On second thought, perhaps I am not a good person to ask--one of my lychee trees has lost all its leaves within the past week! Oliver Patterson ------------ To Chris From Oliver Patterson Durians and mangosteens are "ultratropicals" that cannot be grown anywhere in Florida except for possibly (with luck and much care) Miami Beach and the Keys. Jakfruit can be grown in southern Florida rather easily by comparison, and in Orange County with good protection against freezes. I encourage you to try your luck with the jakfruit. It's a fascinating tree. I am eager to hear about your experiences in growing any of these trees. Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (USDA zone 9--Sunset zone 26!) --------------------------------- Subject: Pluots From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 01:02:59 EDT I was @ 99 Ranch in SD last Friday and they had Pluots (& plumcots), I have read about them before but never tasted them. NOW I MUST HAVE A PLUOT TREE!!! Does anyone know any "cheap" (or even reasonable) sources in San Diego? 99 Ranch also had Lychees for only $2.99/lb. Quite tasty, I've only had them canned before and I'm not sure I can ever go back. The hard thing will be hiding them from my wife & kids now that they have sampled their nectar. Bill Burson ------------ Bill, plumcots, which include Pluots, are usually shy bearers, and slow to begin to bear. If you have room (and patience) to spare, by all means try one. When you talk to Jim, ask where he'd expect to find reasonably priced trees. Leo ------------------------------- Subject: Passion Fruit From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 01:21:44 EDT Leo, I agree w/ the response that you received that P. Ligularis from Ben P. may be the answer. I just planted one under a fig tree and have grand hopes... 1) Ben has quite a collection, if you haven't visited his place, you should. The North SD County CRFG chapter is having a picnic @ his place in August. 2) Somebody @ the Balboa Park meeting mentioned that Amazon Books (Amazon.com) had "Passion Flowers by John Vanderplank" for less than $32.00. I went home and ordered it. It came in today, if you haven't seen it, it is beautiful. All color, all coated pages, lots of very specific information. Buy it, borrow it, steal it if you must (just kidding, go to a library). (Note: I got one also, and $32 includes everything in California. It is volume 2. I also have volume 1. Leo) ps, regarding the Durian plant, burn it, then bury it deep. (yeech!) C-YA, Bill Burson ----------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 05:43:19 +0000 From: MonaLisa Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 06/15/97 12 Greetings to all! Reference the Surinan Cherry 'Gitit' a New Surinam Cherry Cultivar, can this be ordered from that publication? Thanx, Monalisa ---------- No, Monalisa, it is a professional journal that reviews new releases of fruit trees and plants. I don't know any place where it will be for sale in this country. I also want to find the tree or seeds from it. Leo ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 06:00:57 +0000 From: MonaLisa Subject: Mango Hi, I really enjoyed the info on mangoes in the last news letter. In Florida, (Bradenton area) I grew up eating mangoes that were larger, yellow & sweet. North of Florida, all I find is a smaller, greener fruit. Can anyone tell me the name & where to find the mango I describe? Also, approximately how many years before a mango seedling becomes a fruit bearing tree? Thanks, Monalisa:) ----------- Monalisa, I'd visit the area where you lived and either talk to nursery people there, or neighbors who might know the name of the tree you want to find. It's possible that the mango is available for sale in the nurseries there. Perhaps our Florida readers will have an idea as to what the tree was. There are several mangoes that are larger, yellow & sweet, so you need to know the name, if possible, to ensure you get the tree you remember. Mangoes take several years (4-5) to bear from seedlings, at least. Buying grafted trees from the nurseries will probably get you fruit sooner. Leo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:39:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Passiflora, pluots, and apples To: Leo Passiflora Apparently the Passiflora edulis cultivar known as 'Frederick' a.k.a. 'Bountiful Beauty' will fruit in partial shade. There is a huge one in a pepper tree at Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista, Calif., and it certainly fruits prolifically (or maybe I should say bountifully!). I have one that has been in the ground for just over a year and it has fully covered a large section of my fence and is loaded with fruit and blooms this year. I would rate the fruit itself to be outstanding in quality. I also have a P. ligularis that has been in the ground a bit longer. It is in full sun. It is doing terribly and I may take it out soon. It has barely grown, and some of the growth has died back. It always looks chlorotic. Someone with the Passiflora Society told me ligularis is a high-altitude plant and may be poorly adapted to my near-sea-level climate. Pluots I have tasted my first home-grown pluot!!! Incredible. It was a Flavor Supreme, which ripened on June 25. It was the only fruit set by my three-year-old 2-in-1 (the other is Flavor Queen) tree. It is somewhat ironic that I got one FS and no FQ, as the FQ bloomed profusely over a one-month period, while the FS had only 5 or 6 blooms over a one-week period after FQ was done. Perhaps the problem with the FQ was I had nothing else blooming concurrently that will serve as a pollenizer. I spoke to Gary Matsuoka, owner of Laguna Hills Nursery in Orange County, Calif. about pluots. He has had some fruit on his Flavor King three years in a row. So, the listed 5-600 hours chilling requirement may be too high, at least for a partial crop. (And, it is SO good, that even one a year will keep this tree in my yard!) Gary also said that someone at Dave Wilson Nursery now thinks that Burgundy rather than Santa Rosa is the best pollenizer for the pluots. They used to have a row of Burgundy next to their pluots. Then they took it out last year and this year their pluots set much less fruit. Apples Also, Gary makes the unusual and controversial claim that apples do not have a chilling requirement. I asked him about that, and he referred to reports of fruiting Rome Beauty and other supposedly high-chill apples in the Philippines. He said they strip the leaves off the trees when they finish a crop to force them into a dormancy and then the trees bloom and set fruit again. Interesting. Matthew Shugart ----------------------------------- Matthew, I have Frederick, in relatively full sun, doing well, and covering everything I'll allow it to. I find the fruit to be somewhat tart, but most passion fruit is. I've been told by several people that P. ligularis requires considerable shade, so that may be your problem. I'm going to get one to try in one of my trees. You might ask Bob Holzinger bholzing@amgen.com or Patrick Worley wildridge@aol.com about P. ligularis, especially Patrick. Burgundy is an excellent plum that I no longer have. I would like to get it again. I've done the leaf-stripping bit for winter dormancy on apples, but don't anymore. I've heard it isn't practiced as much as it once was. I believe that the Rome Beauty will not bear - even in my much more temperate yard than in the Phillipines - regardless of what I do with its leaves. It would be a great research project for you to find out whether it is still done and with what success. I told you, probably, that I became so impatient with my pluots that I dug them up. They - and the other plumcots I had tried - were extremely shy bearers. At that time I also had Burgundy plum. Thanks for writing! Leo ---------------------- Leo, Thanks for the comments. As for the pluots, believe me, they are worth being patient with! Maybe I'll never get a full crop, but even small crops are good enough to justify their existence in my yard! Matthew Shugart -------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:15:09 -0400 From: Bart Tibbals cc: Leo Subject: persimmons Hello Eileen, Your persimmon trees may still make it. Just keep watering regularly and look for new buds to form. You will have to really keep a check on the moisture content on plants that are from pots. I am told, from one of the premier growers in north florida that wicking by the porus sand will take moisture from the potting soil. The trees are probably in shock from the heat, root trimming and transplanting. I have one zone of trees from potted plants and one zone from bare root trees and they are the same age, yet the bare root trees are several feet taller than the potted ones. The bare root trees can only be planted in the winter. I hope to have a few native seedlings that can be budded with the fuyu and ready to market on a small basis next winter. These are trees left over from the zone I am expanding the orchard with. In my zone of native root stock I hope to be able to successfully bud to them this fall, but I am having trouble with the soil. I cannot figure out what is going on, but maybe with a little luck things will straighten out. I would be more than happy to have you come to my orchard, even though is doesn't look like much yet, since they are so young. Let me know how your trees are doing, Bart Tibbals ------------------------------ To: LLowder779@aol.com Cc: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Re: Chocolate Persimmon From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) I live in North San Diego County, my trees are on a SW facing hill. I rarely fertilize (occasionally fish emulsions) and mulch w/ misc. "tree chippings". As I said, I get the flowers but no setting, my Fuyu (~20 ft. away) has ~ 20-30 fruit set and growing. Leo Manuel who lives ~ 6 miles away said that his tree did the same for a couple of years and now bears fine. If this is the case, next year I should get fruit on this and a capulin cherry that has given me two similar years of false starts. If you do have a better answer or if I need to do something, please advise... On Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:53:42 -0400 (EDT) LLowder779@aol.com writes: >Not knowing where you are located is a handicap in answering so I will >include info based on some different areas. > >In order for your persimmon to set fruit without being pollinated or >parthenocarpically, it most of the time needs to be at least 5 years >old. >If you live in Florida and live far enough south, that can contribute >to not growing persimmons successfully. > >If you live in Florida, our soils are very mineral depleted, you may >need to spray your persimmon trees with a mineral spray, as Microfilic >and sometimes with extra managanese. In California this is not usually >Premium necessary. Persimmons are very sensitive to soil ph and foliar >spraying >makes the minerals available to the tree, while the ph may keep the >nutrients locked up and unavailable to the persimmon tree even if >it is in the fertilizer. > >I hope this will help some. Jim Mercer (who is an expert in the >field of persimmons) helped me with the information. > >If we can help, let us hear from you. > >Lou Lowder ---------------------- Subject: Stevia From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 12:35:50 EDT Rick, I am a neophyte member of CRFG/sd residing in Poway, CA. I was at Jim Neitzel's yesterday getting him wired for e-mail and the topic of Stevia came up. I have been using an extract mfg by Sunrider for ~ 1 year am a big fan of it. Jim said that you are currently growing it. Also do you have any horticultural info on it, e.g. does it grow well here, hardiness, quality.... Bill Burson -------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Jul 97 23:36:20 -0700 From: lorraine brunner To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: longans we have lychee and longan tree in our new yard. got snubbed this year and let someone pick the fruit for 50 bucks. they made a ton on that on but not sure how much. longan tree was covered. took 15 hours to pick it clean. wish u were here!!!! lorraine brunner ---------------------------------- Lorraine, I have had longans in my yard for years. But, I have never grown them commercially. There are growers who subscribe to Rare Fruit News Online, and some of them undoubtedly can be of help. Where do you live? MIAMI How many trees do you have? WE HAVE 2 LYCHEE 1 HUGE LONGAN What varieties of lychee and longan were they? I DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENT VARIETIES.HOW MANY ARE THERE? Have you lived there long? 2 YEARS What other sub-tropical fruit do you grow? MANGO,KEY LIME,GRAPEFRUIT,SAPPADILLO Do you want to be on the mailing list for Rare Fruit News Online? YES PLEASE I WOULD LIKE THAT. Leo -------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:26:22 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: white sapotes Correspondence between Bill Monroe and Norm Subject: white sapotes Author: norm@flnet.com at smtp Date: 7/8/97 10:52 AM Bill, my experience with white sapote seedlings is all bad. I have grown 2 of them over the years and after waiting 4 or 5 years for the fruit, It was not very good. As for fertilizer, I use the cheapest 6-6-6 I can find. I usually do not fertilize while blooms or fruit are present, but this is a general practice of mine based on the fact that some types of fruit trees will drop their fruit when nitrogen is applied. I occasionally spray minors if the leaves show a deficiency. As I mentioned, the Smathers variety always looks bad. Your yellowing leaves could be the old leaves shedding, or possibly to much water on the roots, or possibly minor element deficiency. If nothing helps, it is probably water. They are very slow to recover from water damage. The white sapote is on of the easiest fruit trees to air layer that I am familar with. I seem to have my best luck with air layers as compared to grafted trees. Air layers will often fruit in 1 year, where grafts often fruit in the second or third year. As far as varieties I would recomend the following 1. Smathers 2. Sue belle 3. Macdill 4. Vernon There are many other varieties that are good, but I find these best by my tastes. If you want a fast growing, heavy bearing with very large fruit, the Macdill is the best. The Smathers and Sue belle are both wolly leaf varieties and may not be quite as cold hardy as smooth leaf varieties, although the temperatures in Sarasota do not seem to do much damage to either type. I do not think that anyone would ever regret planting a good variety of white sapote. Norm ------------ Subject: white sapotes Author: norm@flnet.com at smtp Date: 7/1/97 2:16 PM Bill I am on the opposite side of Fl. and have grown several varieties of white sapotes. We occasionally get temperatures down into the mid 20s, and other than loosing a few of the new leaves to frost, I have had no damage. The trees usually bloom in November and carry the fruit through the winter. You should be careful not to use too much mulch, because the tree does not wet feet. I have a friend whose land is low and his white sapotes look terrible each rainy season. I have no problems growing the fruit. I have frozen the fruit, dried it, and eaten it fresh and it is always good. I have grown 7 varieties, and only one stands above the others; that is "Smathers". It is a wolly leaf variety and is the worst looking tree that I have. It appears that it never had any minor elements, but consistantly produces a large crop each year. The experts tell me that it is probably a genetic thing. Nothing seems to bother the fruit. I think that the white sapote is the least demanding fruit that I grow. Norm ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:20:59 -0700 From: Leo Manuel To: Norm Rohrabaugh Subject: Smathers Sapote! Norm, I read your communication with Bill about Sapotes with interest. Is the Smathers variety only in Florida? I'd like to try it. I haven't had luck in getting them to hold fruit (McDill) at my "new" (five years) home, but they fruited well where I lived before. Leo ------- From: Norm Rohrabaugh To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Smathers white sapote. Leo, I cannot tell you much about the history of the Smathers White sapote. I assume that it is one of the varieties introduced by Frank Smathers. It has some unique charasticis. The most outstanding is the lemon background taste. I have never found that taste in any other variety. It is one of the wooly leaf varieties. Another charastic is that it always looks as if it had been totally neglected. The young leaves look good, but as they mature, they take on a look as if they had a mix of magnesium and iron defeciency eventually turning completely yellow and falling off. I have tried everything in my experience and have failed to change anything. Even with this situation, the trees produce a good crop every year. I do not know where the tree is available. I acquired mind as an air layer from a friend. Norm ---------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Comments on July 1 newsletter Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:24:17 -0700 Hi Leo, I have a few comments for some of the items in the July 1 newsletter: For Mike Lima--Annona squamosa is not effected by cold until it gets near freezing, but I have lost two in the last two winters, which were quite mild and probably didn't get much below 38F. There must be some other sensitivity that I'm not aware of, so try it with caution. For Tim Hoy and Bill Monroe--passionfruit that I would recommend are P. 'Frederick', P. alata, and P. maliformis. P. alata will need a cross pollinator, the other two are self fruitful. For warm areas in Florida I would also try P. quadrangularis, P. cincinnata, P. laurifolia, all of which need cross pollinators. If a cool area is to be planted, then P. ligularis is a good choice, and it probably needs a cross pollinator. Most of these plants can be obtained mail order from Patrick Worley at Wild Ridge Nursery (wildridge@aol.com). For Haidar Nesheiwat--there is a guava plantation on the Hawaiian Island of Kauai that processes 60 million pounds (I think) of guavas each year. I would recommend finding out as much as possible from them, although they may not be likely to share secrets with a competitor. But it can't hurt to ask. If you can't find them, get back to me and I'll look for their name in my Hawaii file. That's about it, except to report that I just ate my first black sapote fruit from my tree and it was closer to chocolate pudding than to axel grease. The tree I purchased from George Emerich has perfect flowers, so it has done just fine on its own and it is flowering again for next year's crop. All in all not a bad fruit. Take care, Bob -------------------------- Readers: Help! How do you deal with fruit flies in affected areas?? From: Hideko Teruga Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:02:32 -0300 (EST) Subject: "Worms" in Pitangas in Brazil Hello Leo, My name is Hideko and I live in Brazil (believe me!). I was very curious about your organization since I've been spending some useless hours searching for help in the internet since I have a Pitanga tree in my house and I would really like to know how could I manage not to have that disgusting worms in my little fruits. I know we have big research centers here in Brazil specialized in tropical fruits research, but they seem to pay attention to big growers and not to simple plant lovers like me. Could you please help me?? My tree is 20 years old and by now she is full of flowers!! I wonder that so many flowers will certainly turn to delicious fruits and it would be great if they were "wormless"!!! I live in Santos, a coastcity in the Southeast of Brazil and the climate is very humid. Presently, we are in the wintertime though the temperature never gets lower than 60 F. I am really counting on your help! If you could send me any information on how should I care my tree, they will certainly be welcomed! PS: I also have a guava tree in my backyard. Would it be too much to ask for some info on it too? :)) Hideko Teruya ------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:33:49 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Subject: Bob Perry's "Landscape Plants for Western Regions" Amazon.com has Bob Perry's "Landscape Plants for Western Regions" reduced from $62 by 30% to $43.60 plus shipping (maybe $4) Virgie (Local crfg recommends it highly!) ------------------------------------ From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:34:45 -0400 cc: Leo Please forward this to Bill Monroe (or put it in RFNO, or both). Hi Bill, I am also growing a white sapote tree. It is probably the tree that I am most excited about and have the highest hopes for. Mine is young, but it is rapidly growing into a beautiful tree. It has been remarkably trouble-free. It is a very hardy plant (relatively speaking), and in California (where the winters are always cool) it is said to withstand 20 degrees with virtually no damage! In active growth it is (expectedly) not as resistant to cold, so in Florida it won't be as hardy during the winter as in California. Nonetheless, I think it is well-adapted to central Florida. I live in cold Lake county, north of Orlando. I have a friend nearby who has a large white sapote tree, and he has never seen any major freeze-damage on it. His tree has not produced any fruit yet. He determined that the problem may be a lack of dry winters. He has been irrigating the tree during the winter just the same as his other trees. The white sapote needs a cold, dry winter to induce flowering, and his tree has not had such conditions. He decided not to irrigate it in the winter anymore. The flowers generally appear in the middle of the winter, when frosts are likely. My plan is to keep the tree as dry as possible in the winter, and hopefully this will delay flowering until late winter. I hope I don't overdo it and kill the tree. I will resume irrigation when the threat of frost is gone (or when the tree is severely wilting). Of the other trees that you listed, I am growing all but the jaboticaba and longan. I also have a few others. I am very interested in hearing about how your trees are doing. Mine are still very young, so nothing exciting has happened yet. Only the sugar apple has fruit on it (just one). I managed to kill one of my lychee trees recently, so my horticultural self-esteem is very low at the moment. I would love to see my trees grow well, so any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. I think that the "jungle" method that you described is very effective. Visit Gene Joyner's place in West Palm Beach ("Unbelievable Acres") and you will be convinced that it works. I'm looking forward to hearing of your experiences with the white sapote and your other trees. Sincerely, Oliver Patterson ----------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:31:02 -0400 From: Richard Buchanan Please put me on your rare fruit mailing list. I am interested in Cherry of the Rio Grande. Are you familiar with it? Do you know if I can grow it in a container in Tallahassee, FL. Thanks. Richard Buchanan ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:27:01 -0400 Message-ID: <3ca7d5f0@mailb.harris.com> From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) cc: Leo For: Oliver Patterson Oliver, How does one get to "Visit Gene Joyner's place in West Palm Beach ("Unbelievable Acres")"? My white sapote just went through a disturbing period in which it lost most of its mature lower leaves. The leaves turned yellow and dropped. I sprayed with minor elements and fertilized with iron and maganese. I found out latter that it may have been getting too much water. From your comments it seems that abundant water affects the white sapote. I just planted an "Ice Cream Bean Tree" underneath my pine tree. They're cold sensitive but for 10 dollars I couldn't resist experimenting. Not a bad price for a 5 foot tree! I understand from a friend the "Home Depot" is selling different banana types. He called to tell me that they just received a order of Hoa Moas and Ice Creams. If your into bananas you might want to check your local store. The next banana type I want to try is the Raja Puri which is called the "Bullet Proof" banana because it with stands the cold and fruits every 7 months versus 18. Could you tell me what causes premature fruit drop on Carambolas? Best Regards, Bill Monroe wmonroe@harris.com ----------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:49:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Benefits of Stevia? From: ricknan@juno.com KNO3 (potassium nitrate) is normally sprayed on the trees and will usually hasten flowering and fruiting. If you have a mango tree that has not fruited why not try spraying it. The article I have uses 20,000 ppm solution. Butler Mills or McCalif in San Diego County should have it. Rick ------------------------------------ The site Landscaping With Bananas, with web address: http://www.pathfinder.com/@@5AXicwYAx@WMqCDJ/vg/Magazine-Rack/ Sunset/1996/August Discusses feeding and watering needs of the banana plants, lists varieties with a description of each, and the most effective uses of banana trees in landscaping. ---------------------- Another Banana Site: U.C. Fruit & Nut Research and Information Center - Banana http://pom44.ucdavis.edu/banana1.html U.C. Fruit & Nut Research and Information Center Use that address to get the "hot" links below: Banana Produce Facts Linked from the Postharvest Outreach Program, U.C. Davis Banana Overview, Propagation, and Agroforestry Uses Linked from Cornell University Banana Home Fruit Production Linked from Texas A & M Extension The Banana Linked from the Florida Ag. Information Referral System. Banana Fruit Facts, and Banana Publications Courtesy of California Rare Fruit Growers. Chiquita On-Line Cool Stuff about Bananas Courtesy of Dole -------------------------- Continuing with bananas: (Following is a quotation) http://www.brudys-exotics.com/ Texas based Brudys sells quite a few banana corms, not inexpense ($25-$35 each.) Shipping an additional $5 to $7 per. (Some are rare.) Other "hype" is at the bottom of this page. Offers these varieties with a description of each: African Rhino Horn Brazilian Cardaba Cavendish, Dwarf Chinese Coccinea Double Banana or Mahoi French Horn Giant Cavendish Giant Plantain Golden Aromatic Gran Nain Haa Haa Hua Moa Jamaican Red Dwarf Lacatan Musa Sumatrana X Gran Nain Hybrid Mysore Nino (Honey Banana) Popoulu Praying Hands Pysang Raja (Pisang Raja) Puerto Rican Dwarf Plantain Rajapuri Red Iholene Rojo Saba (Sabah) Thousand Fingers Valery Velatina - Pink Banana White Iholene Williams Hybrid Zebrina Discover the world of tropical gardening with beautiful plants that you can grow indoors during the winter and outdoors during the summer or year-round in a greenhouse. Brudy's Exotics is a mail order catalog established in 1968 specializing in rare unusual seeds, cuttings, rhizomes and bulbs of exotic plants and trees. Our product line includes bananas, cannas, gingers and plumerias as well as fertilizers, books and equipment. Butterfly and hummingbird gardening is highlighted with special sections. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - July 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 08/01/97 15 This newsletter is longer than any, so far, even after trying to pare it down. I hope no one is offended if some letters have the essence intact, but of shorter length than originally sent to me. I was tempted to omit some redundant references, but didn't want to make the difficult choice as which ones to leave/cut. If the mail continues at the pace of the last few weeks, I may need to send the newsletters weekly, rather than bi-monthly. I'd like your feedback. You may be overwhelmed by the size of this newsletter! Any suggestions? Leo ---------------------------------- Several websites that I believe you'll find interesting enough to check out! There are a few others at the end of this newsletter, that I haven't checked. ------------------------------ Digitalseed.com WebSite To Check! Digitalseed: http://www.digitalseed.com/ ---------------------------- Small Farm Center Web Page: WebSite To Check http://www.sfc.ucdavis.edu/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:18:05 +0000 WebSite To Check! Subject: GreenWeb-Extracted Quotes http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb.htm "We also hope you'll check out GreenWeb's Exotic Seed Catalog and Gardening Book Store as well. Happy gardening! The web site for people who love plants, nature and the harmony they provide to each of our lives! Here we'll celebrate that fact as well as provide you a source for over 4000 high quality seeds and gardening products to grow everything from exotic houseplants to rare vegetables and fruit trees. GreenWeb's Exotic Seed Catalog FREE for the DOWNLOADING! With Seeds From Around the World!" ------------------- The Tree Doctor WebSite To Check http://www.1stresource.com/t/treedoc/ Hot Links To Other WWW SITES: Xenorhabdus-Nematode Complexes as BioInsecticides Biological Control Virtual Information Center Midwest Biological Control Newsletter Biological Control Home Page" ---------------------------------- This one came with recommendations from Brian White: hewlett@ozemail.com.au Tropical and Subtropical Fruits Notes WebSite Especially To Check!! http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/dpinotes/hortic/tropfruit/tropfruit.html - Topics Listed: - Papaw Ringspot Disease Papaws - Virus and Virus-Like Diseases Pawpaws - site selection, plantation layout and land preparation Ten Things to Know About Growing Bananas Growing Bananas in the Home Garden Pruning Lychees in Southern Queensland Neem Trees - culture Mangoes - packing for market Bananas - crown rot disease Insect Pests of South Queensland Bananas Controlling Banana Leaf Spot Banana Planting Material Basic Requirements of South Queensland Bananas Preparing South Queensland Land for Bananas Fertiliser Recommendations for South Queensland Bananas Ripening Home Grown Bananas Solving Home Garden Banana Problems Grafting Young Avocado Trees Diseases and Disorders of Mangoes Control of Postharvest Diseases of Mangoes What Caused Green Ripe Mangoes? Commercial Production of Persimmons Site Selection for Persimmons Pruning and Training Persimmons Lychees - hydrocooling Lychees - packaging Ginger Plantations - layout and management --------------------------------------------- Tropical Plants and Seeds Address List http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/f35cat.html GARDEN CATALOGS LIST, Version 15 I've included only a small part of the webpage. Leo Begin: This list is a copyrighted publication. It was compiled with the participation of the Internet group Gardens and other Internet sources. It may be freely printed, copied or redistributed as long as it is copied in its entirety with all headers, trailers, credits, and other identifying information completely intact. New addresses, changes, corrections, questions and comments should be directed to the compiler of the list Cyndi Johnson All ratings are opinions of Gardens members and other netizens. Requests for additions MUST be accompanied by the vendor's complete name, address, phone, and a brief description of offerings, or it will not be added. No claims are made as to the accuracy of any of this information. Suggest you call or write before sending money to a source. No warranties are made about the firms listed. For problems or comments with the WEB server http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/, contact John Mertus. This list is also available via anonymous ftp at jam.cog.brown.edu under pub/gardening. No claims are made as to the accuracy of any of this information. Suggest you call or write before sending money to a source. No warranties are made about the firms listed. Format: 1.Name (of company) 2.Address 3.Phone 4.Brief Description/Comments including shipping info if available 5.Quality Rating: Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent 6.Prices: $(Cheap) $$(Average) $$$(Expensive) $$$$(Exorbitant) 7.Service Rating: Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent 8.Varieties Offered: Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent 9.WWW address if available End -------------------------------- Several messages were exchanged with Pluots in the subject: (So many, in fact, that it became difficult to remember who wrote what...) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:37:27 -0700 (PDT) To: powaybill@juno.com From: Matthew Shugart Subject: pluots Bill Burson asks about sources for pluots and comments on the plumcots at Ranch 99 Market in San Diego. Pacific Tree Farms sells all four varieties of pluot and has 4-in-1 and 2-in-1 trees. Pepper Tree Nursery in San Marcos had a few Flavor Supreme and Flavor Queen last year, but I think has sold out by now--they did not get any bare-root pluots this past year. Laguna Hills Nursery has all four varieties, too, and probably the best prices. With enough chill, pluots are not necessarily shy bearers. The nice thing is that, unlike some fruits, they will bare any fruit even on marginal chilling. Preliminary evidence from people I've talked to in southern California is that Flavor King and Flavor Queen will probably produce decent crops on under 400 hours. I had one Flavor Supreme (outstanding!!) in late June, with probably 400-450 hours. Dapple Dandy is in its first year on the market, so its real chill factor is yet to be known. Dave Wilson lists all of them at 500-600 or 400-500 hours (depending on which tag you believe--all the trees have one tag that says 400-500 and one that says 500-600!). I have only one season's worth of experience with my trees, but I can say that they are all highly vigorous growers and that FQ is a good bloomer under my conditions. I'd be surprised if they would not do quite well in Poway. But do not rely only on the pluots or Santa Rosa plum to pollenize one another (despite what the tags say). Get another plum with a progressive blooming period, such as Burgundy or maybe Autumn Rosa. Japanese (not European) Green Gage might do well, too (and is a wonderful low-chill plum!!). I believe the fruit you saw at Ranch 99 is the same that I saw at Boney's Market in Oceanside. They were labeled "plumcots" and are from a grower known as Harvey's Farms. I am certain they are pluots, but they are not one of the four that are sold through nurseries. There are one or two other varieties that are sold only to commercial growers, and a lot are being planted now. I assume that to make it in the market they will have to be sold as plums, as your average fruit-shopper has no idea what a plumcot is, let alone a pluot. They taste mostly like plums anyway, so it would not be much of a stretch. For commercial growers the great thing about pluots is that they have a realtively long bearing period and can even be picked early for market yet already have a very high sugar content. Matthew Shugart Pluot Enthusiast ----------------------- To: Bob Holzinger: bholzing@amgen.com Subject: Re: 99 Ranch Market From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:52:35 EDT On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:43:54 -0700 "Holzinger, Bob" writes: >Hi Bill, >I saw your comments in the latest newsletter from Leo Manuel >and since I am going to be in San Diego this weekend, I would like >to know where the 99 Ranch Market is located. I am a former San >Diego resident, so just a rough location will get me there. >I too would like to pick up some litchi at $2.99 a pound! > >Regards, > >Bob Holzinger Bob, Ranch 99 is a chain store with several locations in So. California, mostly in Orange & Los Angeles Counties. The one in San Diego is ~one block east of I-805 & Clairmont Mesa Blvd on the North side of the street. I wish I hadn't just recycled my plastic bags, I could tell you where the others are. A week ago they had dropped to $1.99/lb. Better hurry They seem to always have something good in their produce section. They also have durian (note this is in a different sentence than the "good" fruits). Bill -----------------------------Another from Bill:-------- From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:50:38 EDT Ranch 99 had smooth yellow w/ red-blushed fruit that would rival the sweetest of any plum with a hint of apricot flavor, these were marked pluots, flavour savour. They also have a fruit that looks, very much like an apricot but tastes like a cross between a apricot & sweet plum. To me the flesh had a tartness that was not unpleasant. These were marked Plucots but I don't remember the variety. I know you live in North county inland, but it's worth the drive to Kearny Mesa to try these. By the way I'm relying on memory I hope I didn't mix things up too much. Bill -------------------Another from Bill:--------- Received: (from powaybill@juno.com) Pluots aren't all created equal? Subject: Pluot fever Well Leo, After getting home late last night and reading your e-mail, I woke up early this AM and went to Trader Joes in Carmel Mountain. I saw the Pluots right inside the entrance. I was excited and grabbed a couple of packs, making sure that none of the pre-packaged Pluots were bruised or defective. I rushed through the rest of the store just grabbing assorted juices, preserves, high fiber cereals and something that looks like a tube of toothpaste, but as my dear wife tried to explain, "It's berry flavored and it has ginseng in it." (I bought four of those, I'll report back later if worthwhile). I got into one line and then cut off two other people as I tried to get into a shorter line so that I could get outside and try my pluots. The kids said "Can I have a bran muffin", I lovingly responded "Yea, whatever", thinking more Pluots for me (heh, heh, heh). Well I quickly opened the wrapper, peeled off the label wiped the fruit off on the fabric of my shorts (pesticides? nah). I bit slowly, knowing of the flavorful ecstasy that was to follow. ..... ........ ........ ....... Still waiting, I took another bite,...... ........ ........ Bad Pluot, I'll try another, ...... ....... Wow, of all the Pluots I tried from Ranch 99, all were great, these appeared to be the same, same color on the outside, same label on the outside Kingsburg Apple # 4443, same color on the inside. Being a math wizard, my mind was racing through the probabilities of buying and eating the ONLY TWO FLAVORLESS PLUOTS IN THE WORLD. Unlikely I thought, so I tried a third, forth, fifth, sixth. By now I've eaten an entire package of flavorless Pluots in less than 3 miles while driving home, My stomach hurts a little, I'm out ~ $5.00 ($2.39/six) and I'm disappointed (not to be redundant). My educated guess is that they were picked early or stored too long. They lacked the flavor and high sugar that I remembered. I will try the other package after my stomach says it is ok, but realistically I'll try the edible toothpaste first. For the rest of this year, I'll buy my Pluots one package at a time. Next year I will hoard the good ones, and buy some extra bran muffins for the little guys. I am also going to start a search for the "perfect" Pluot for San Diego Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden Book) so that we are ready by bareroot season. Oh, Matt, I'll keep an eye out for zone 23/24 for you too. Bill Burson ------------------------------------and another----------- Date: Wed Jul 30 11:24:05 1997 From: Bill Burson Subject: Pluots?, Pleachs? Dinosaurs Eggs? I was at Ranch 99 today and my faith in pluots (or something similar), was reinstated, they had three choices. One was the Plumcot that resembles an apricot with a smother skin. The second was packaged as a FAVOR SPRULT. It looks and tastes as though it is a cross between a Babcock Peach and a red plum. Without explanation, it is individually labeled as a "Dinosaur Egg". Firm and very sweet, worth the $2.49/lb The third was packaged as a "Dinosaur Ball". It looks like a very large, greenish/yellow plum. It was sweet, firm and quite tasty, worth the $2.49/lb as a novelty. Each was individually labeled as "Sweet Pluot I have hidden these from my wife and children. The Lychees are now down to $1.79/lb and still lookin' good. Worth the drive from Poway or Carlsbad Bill Burson ----------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passifloras Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:14:04 -0700 To: Mathew Shugart Hello, Mathew: I just read the latest newsletter from Leo and wanted to add my two cents worth on passifloras. P. 'Frederick' is a hybrid, P. edulis f. flavocarpa x P. edulis, and will fruit when grown in partial shade. It will overgrow anything in its way and will take full sun where ever it's grown, as long as it gets enough water. The fruits are sweeter if you let them wrinkle first, but some fruits are just tarter than others on the same vine. It may be exposure to the sun, I don't know for sure. P. ligularis is from altitude in Central Mexico down to northern South America, so I assume it grows in partial shade since it only grows at altitude there. I have seen a couple of healthy plants growing in full sun in Point Loma, but that's it. My experience with P. ligularis in San Diego was disappointing. Most plants grow very slowly and cuttings root slowly then don't grow much at all. The plants in Point Loma were the most vigorous ones I have seen and even the cuttings from these plants didn't grow very fast. I think the trick is to get a seedling that takes off and is put in the right spot, probably in the shade. Like almost all passifloras P. ligularis doesn't take frost very well. I hope this helps some and if you want more info do ask Patrick Worley at wildridge@aol.com. Regards, Bob Holzinger -------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:26:41 -0700 (PDT) To: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Re: pluots I was at the Ranch 99 Market in San Diego last week. The market specializes in Asian products, but has an excellent general produce section. I am thrilled to say that they have Flavor Queen pluots! They are labelled, interestingly enough, "Dinosaur Balls." They are large and green--not fully ripe, but very sweet and richly flavored nonetheless. (That is one of the great things about pluots--they are sweet even if picked before being really ripe.) They also had the same unidentified pluot/plumcot from Harvey's Farms that I mentioned in a previous post: a smaller bright yellow-skinned fruit with excellent sweetness. Another pluot or plum product that I had never seen before was labeled "Dinosaur Egg" on the sticker on each fruit and "Flavor Sprult" [sic] on the package. This one looks sort of like a Flavor Supreme pluot on the outside, but it is more pink than blood-red on the inside, so it must be some other variety. It may be a plum. At any rate, it was very good. Finally, they had a Fortune plum. This is a supposedly low-chill plum that Frank James, a CRFG member in Santa Ana, lists among his recommended varieties for southern California. The trees are avaliable from Burchell Nursery. I had never seen the fruit in market before. It is not as sweet as a pluot (naturally), but would rate among the best plums I have had from a grocery store. Oh, although not in the cateogory of plums and pluots, Ranch 99 currently has sliced Jackfruit for $2.99/lb. and lychees for $1.99/lb.! Matthew Shugart --------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart At 2:43 PM -0000 7/21/97, WMonroe wrote: > Greetings! > >There has been a bit of discussion on "Pluots". What are the >temperature, water, and soil requirements for growing such a tree and >can one be grown in Florida. Specifically, the Melbourne Beach area? >I have not seen a Plout in any of the nurseries nor are any of my >fruit growing friends familiar with the tree in question. I do not know where Melbourne Beach is, but I would not think Florida would be very promising pluot country. We get partial sets in some parts of southern California, suggesting that it may be low chill, but we are probably getting barely enough chill for pluots. Does Santa Rosa plum do well for you? If so, I would think pluots might have a chance, as long as you do not expect heavy crops. >I am surprised that no one is commercially growing the white sapote >in Florida for public consumption. Why is that? Could it be because they bruise so easily? Or just because they are unknown to most people? While on the topic of white sapotes, I have a question. What is the seed of a sapote? I notice that each fruit has a large pit in the center, like a stone fruit, but then there are also flatter seed-like things embedded in the flesh. What are those? Very unusual. I get white sapotes from a tree down the street that bears heavily despite being completely neglected on a vacant lot! Matthew Shugart ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:19:10 -0700 New Florida Subscriber From: Walt Rowe Leo, I would like to be added to your newsgroup posting. My name is Walt Rowe. I live in the south central Florida area. I am currently growing a collection of Carambola, Lychee, Longan, Black Sapote, White Sapote, Muntingia (Strawberry Tree), Custard Apple, Jaboticaba, Papaya, Bananas, citrus, guavas and ice cream bean (small). I have sampled your newsgroup through a friend and was delighted. Thank you. Walt Rowe ------------------------------- From: Hideko Teruga - A Satisfied Customer!! Subject: Thanxs, Leo Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:53:24 -0300 (EST) Hi Leo, The more I contact with the association, more excited I get about it! After reading the first newsletter sent to me last week, I sent message to Moshe, who is an agronomist from Israel. He was very kind and sent me a list of things I could do to prevent my pitanga tree from flies infestation. I really have to apologize for not having written back to you about ny reply. I guess I got so busy with the solution ( I hurried to buy the substances), that I forgot to tell about it to you! Thanks again, Leo, and I hope if you come one day to my country, maybe I can show the ex-problematic Pitanga tree! Hideko --------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:33:56 -0800 Need Tropical Avocado From: Mohd Johari Abdullah Hi Leo, Thank you very much for putting me on your mailing list and as a matter of fact, I had already received all your back issues and am still going through all of them. For your info, I received responses regarding Avocado from Moshe Nadler and Don Gholston of CRFG for the start. Personal Details for your information are as shown below:- Name: Mohammad Johari Country: Malaysia -I came from East Malaysian State called Sarawak situated at Borneo Island in South East Asia. -climate:tropical-warm,wet and humid type of climate. Fruit Grown:- -50xtrees of Durian -20xtrees of Rambutan -20xtrees of Jackfruit -some few types of bananas -few trees of Carambola -few trees of Mangosteen -few trees of Sapodilla Interest:-Wanted to plant Avocado and some other rare tropical fruits. -still looking for information on Avocado-so far I have never seen an Avocado Trees in Malaysia.I had tested the fruit and sort of like it very much.I am looking forward to get source of seeds of West Indian Varity and would be glad to exchange seeds with fellow RFG enthusiasts. Sincerely M.Johari ---------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:38:40 -0800 From: Mohd Johari Abdullah Hi Leo, Thank you very much for putting me on your mailing list and as a matter of fact, I had already received all your back issues and am still going through all of them. For your info, I received responses regarding Avocado from Moshe Nadler and Don Gholston of CRFG for the start.I believed that I can get lots of advice from Moshe and will get in touch with him later. Interest:- Wanted to plant Avocado and some other rare tropical fruits. -still looking for information on Avocado-so far I have never seen an Avocado Trees in Malaysia.I had tested the fruit and sort of like it very much.I am looking forward to get source of seeds of West Indian Varity and would be glad to exchange seeds with fellow RFG enthusiasts. Sincerely M.Johari ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Avocado Seed Source From: DGholston@aol.com To: Mohd Johari Abdullah : ilang@tm.net.my Greetings: Ed Kraujalis, 1311 SE 14 Terrace, Cape Coral, FL 33990-3721, USA sells rare fruit seeds and might be able to supply you with the avocado seeds you are looking for. Don Gholston California Rare Fruit Growers http://www.crfg.org/ --------------------------------------- O.K. Floridians with Figs. Write to Scott and Phyllis: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 97 21:07:08 UT From: "SCOTT SHAMIS" Hello My name is scott and my girlfriends name is phyllis, We recently bought a house in surfside fl.(miami beach) and on our property we have mango, orange, pink grapefruit, keylime (we planted) and the tree we have questions about...the fig... our fig tree has quite a bit of fruit, but we don't know when to pick it and does it ripen off the vine. We have some bugs. any information on fig trees would be appreciated. SCOTT SHAMIS --------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA In Portugal, Remember? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:16:24 +-200 (Written in Portuguese, translated to English) I got one more news to give you. It maybe of interest to other members. About some seeds that I bought from Great Company Seeds that you sent me (from the first message you sent to the members to inform us about what you bought, but nobody knew it they where viable). First it looked like it was a cultivar y una was not delivered, and after complaining three times several months ago, I did not received a reply. Now I have verified that a great percentage of those seeds were no good because they were too dry to germinate. I will never buy seeds so expensive anymore. Leo I think that it would be a good idea for us members to send a list of companies that sell plant or seeds from the lands or countries. What do you think about this? Yours sincerely Abilio ----------------------- Visit the Garden Talk site to get help. Replacement for alt.agriculture.fruit (which is spam-overwhelmed) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:00:11 -0700 Subject: New gardening discussion group Dear friends at alt.agriculture.fruit I have set up a new gardening discussion group at: http://209.25.46.109/ or http://209.25.46.109/Garden_Talk/disc7_frm.htm It has threaded discussions, archives (50 meg of space available), and a search engine. One of the five discussion areas is 'fruit.' It should function pretty much like alt.agriculture.fruit , except that messages will stay around longer, and can be found through a search. Good Gardening, Jonathan Byron, mailto: jbyron@junix.ju.edu --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:01:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl Hansen: CHansen@itshqcb Our youngest subscriber My name is Carl Hansen and I am fifteen. I have been a member of the CRFG North San Diego chapter for a year and have been growing unusual fruit for about four years. I am very intrested in this email ring and would love to be part of it. I have growing pitangas, cherimoya, cherry of the rio grande, mulberry, pineapple guava, sapodilla, and I am planning on getting a miracle fruit. Thank you Carl ----------------------------- From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:50:38 EDT PowayBill writes: Patrick, how can I distinguish whether my Passion Fruit that was sold to me as Black Knight, actually is one? BillBurson -------- Patrick at Wild Ridge responds: Dear Bill, Send $1.00 to Wild Ridge, 17561 Vierra Canyon Road, Box 37, Prunedale, CA, 93907 and we'll send yoiu off a catalog. I guess the only way to tell if it is a P. 'Black Knight' is the very short internodes, smaller growing habit, very dark fruit with very deep orange flesh and lots of fruit on the vine. If it grows leggy in strong light or doesn't flower it is probably a seedling, no the hybrid. Spanger and many others, including the seed fund have sold seed as P. 'Black Knight', if just doesn't come true from seed at all. I hope that helps. Good growing Patrick at Wild Ridge ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 Diane in NE Illinois subscribes. From: Diane Falk: gardens2@lake-online.com please sign me up for your rare fruit group. sounds very useful and if it is helpful for northeastern, illinois zone 5 perhaps i might mention it on my sprites' sight. visit initial urls from sprites' sight by clicking "visit our sprites' sight" at http://www.lake-online.com/gar dens2.htm located at bottom of serendipity page. ...forgot to mention i am interested in host and nectar plants for lepidoptera up here in antioch, illinois. ie paw paw is a host for butterfly larva and also edible fruit not usually available around here. also persimmon and currants, field crops on a small scale for childrens' environmenta education projects, berries/melons/and yummie fruits potential for my unpredictable weather here would be very useful. thanks and please sign me up for rare fruits discussion group as per your instructions. serendipity gardens, inc. is not yet a non nor not-for-profit entity, but we are attempting to decide how to function within a corporate form. diane falk ------------ Diane, I am happy to put you on the mailing list, but Zone 5 people will find little in common with Zone 9 or 10, where most of the subscribers live. Those in the northern sections of US may attempt to grow sub-tropical fruit, which is sort of what most of us mean by "rare fruit." They will probably use green houses, though, or bring the tender plants in from the cold for the winter months. Leo ------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 07:57:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway: Permacltur@aol.com Hi Diane Leo asked me to respond to your note. Regarding your butterfly garden request, there are a number of suppliers that specialize in butterfly garden plants. Contact me if you are interested in a copy of this database. There may be groups in our data base of non-profit organizations that are concerned with butterfly gardens--I did not check this out as I need to move on. That database TRIP (The Resources of International Permaculture) lists roughtly 2070 organizations (varies daily of course) and I think there are some concerned with saving endangered butterfuly species. I say I think, because funding for such groups is marginal, particularly where they are most needed, and individual entries that I am thinking of may have died of financial starvation. eg butterfly farms in Malyasia And South America. Good luck with your important work. Here we grow lantana, I allow some of the weedy buttonbush to bloom in our pasture, and we have many thousands of passiflora blossoms. I always pick the swallowtail butterfly larvae from my parsley and carrots, where they do damage, and put it on my celery. Some people trim the tops of celery anyway, to make it stockier, so they aren't doing serious harm there, and I get the butterflies in increasing numbers. While we deliberately grow a few butterfly plants, my focus is on the hummingbird plants, particularly those that are effective before the wild campsis (trumped vine) blossoms. I note certain zebra butterflies like the citrus blossoms, as do most bee/fly pollinators, but I guess that is of little interest to you. My son in Massachusetts reports he has noticed regular sumac (Rhus) to be a phenomenal bee plant--I expect most bee plants have potential as butterfly feeding stations. Dan Hemenway --------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 Help with espalier, anyone? From: Bill DeFelice Bill, you said: I would like top be put on your mailing list. I have tried many resources in tring to find the best books or videos on how to espalier without much luck. Maybe your newsletter or the back issues will help. I live in York, PA. Approx. equidistant from Baltimore and Harrisburg and 1-1/2 hours west of Philly. Beautiful country around here. Maybe you've seen it. Thanks Bill DeFelice ----------- Bill, I am willing to put you on the mailing list for Rare Fruit News Online, but I don't think any one of the reader-growers who subscribe know much about espaliering. I know I don't, and I haven't seen the topic come up. I hope one of the readers can help. Leo ---------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:02:30 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Is the Capulin self-fruitful? Leo, "The literature" says self-fruitful, but more to the point, there is a tree (Huachi Grande) at the UCSC Arboretum that is all by its lonesome and has tons of fruit on it every year. Don ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 What about Lingonberries in Canada? From: David Anderson Subject: Subscribe from BC.Ca? Hi, David Anderson here in Abbotsford BC.Ca. We own a produce farm and direct market; our main crop is Yukon Gold potatoes. In the last two years we have begun growing Lingonberries, the transplants are available from Fall Creek Nursery in Lowell Ore. email . We are learning how to grow them first and will then concentrate on marketing if the plants do well here on heavy clay soil with a high water table. At the moment our biggest problem is weeds and there are no approved herbicides for Lingonberries in Canada becuase no one has a large enough planting to be able to afford the testing on the "user pay" program. David Anderson --------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Answers Passiflora Question To: "'powaybill@juno.com'" Subject: passifloras Hi Bill, Yes, I am a passiflora guy and most of my passifloras are not grown for the fruit, rather I enjoy the flowers and the different leaf shapes. To ask what will do well in Poway I will need to know what exposure you have, how much frost you see in an average winter and in a bad winter and whether you get any breeze in the summer to keep the heat down. If you have gotten the listed plants through a summer and winter already, then that gives me some place to start. First, let's get some details cleared up. P. 'Frederick' is not a variety of P. edulis, it is a hybrid (P. edulis f. flavocarpa x P. edulis). P. 'Black Knight' is a variety of P. edulis and can be recognized by its growth habit--it's a dwarf with very little space between adjacent leaves and the fruits are always small (about 1 1/2" in diameter) and so dark purple in color that they look black. Most passifloras are not self fruitful, and this includes P. edulis f. flavocarpa, P. alata, and P. ligularis. P. alata x P. caerulea (the usual form of the cross) does not set fruit with anything inside. So, what's left to try? You need to try warm growers, not cool growers and I hope you have P. ligularis in at least partial shade. The few I could recommend are P. maliformis (self fruitful), P. platyloba (cross pollinated by P. maliformis) and P. 'Purple Tiger' (P. quadrangularis x P. alata). A good cross pollinator to have for P. alata and P. 'Purple Tiger' is P. caerulea 'Constance Eliott', which is also self fruitful, but not very tasty. I have all of the above and do propagate them. If you ever get up to Ventura, stop by. Otherwise you need to know when I am next coming down to visit Leo and make a request for plants. At this time I don't know when that will be. Any more passiflora questions, just drop me a line. Take care, Bob --------------------- Help for all of us with Fruit Fly problems From: Nina&PaulVC Hideko in Brazil gets help from Canada! Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 6:36 PM To: heideko@fea.unicamp.br Subject: Fruit Fly Control on Pitangas Hi Hideko, My name is Paul, and I am Bob Holzinger's friend. Actually I am Brazilian, but I live in Calgary, AB - Canada. How I got to know Bob is a long story, and how I find myself here in Canada is another long story. I am contacting you, because Bob has asked me some information about Fruit Fly control on your Pitangueiras. I will write you in my unperfect English, so we can share our conversation with Bob, OK? If it gets too complicated I will apologize with Bob and turn into our Portuguese. It will be a good opportunity to improve my abilities on writing English. I am an agronomist and I used to control the insects using insecticide-saturated baits. Instead of spraying the baits I used to put the bait inside some traps, this should avoid the contamination of the fruit with the chemicals. The traps can be done with any plastic bottles, with small holes on it. The holes have to be large enough for the entrance of the flies, but they must create some difficulties on the way out. The baits are prepared with: -100 liters of water -5 liters of Molasses -1 liter of Corn Protein (Proteina Hidrolizada de Milho,(Portuguese)) - And ONLY ONE of these insecticides: -diazinon 40% - 200g OR -malation 25% - 600g OR -paration 60% - 50ml OR -fention 50% - 75ml OR -etion 50% - 60 ml OR -triclorfon 80% - 200g (the one that I used more frequently) Unfortunately, or fortunately I do not know, I have not been dealing with this insect since a long time ago, I do know however that there are some new researches on this field. I have found some very interesting information about the Fly on the Internet. The address is: http://www.pcug.org.au/~jallen/cogint13.htm . This site has a lot of information on Organic Control, and I found it quite complete on the issue. What I did not like on the suggested methods is the creosote repellents that they describe. It is highly toxic, even not being based on insecticides. DON'T USE IT. Well I hope I have been helpful. Take care! Tchau! Paul Connors ------------------------------------- From: Walt Rowe: an39.palmnet.net Looking for Miracle Fruit Seeds Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:25:00 -0400 Leo, I am located near Vero Beach on the East coast of Florida. While we are communicating, could you post a request to the newsgroup for me? I am looking for a few Miracle fruit seeds. Thanks ... Walt Rowe ------------------------------ ATTN: Don Gholston Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 From: Dan Hemenway: Permacltur@aol.com Subject: Mohd Johari Abdullah Search for Avocado AND Design a DataBase! It would help to have more than the country or in the case of a huge island like Borneo, more than the general region. Saying Borneo is probably saying less than, say southeastern US (10 US citizens would probably have 8 different lists of states to include and the other two would have given up). OK, we need elevation, temperature range, and precipitation. Then, soil is often important, particularly for varieties sensitive to nematodes. And drainage. Not to mention latitude, meaning day length. From the little I know of Borneo, I'd guess that any variety that does swimingly well in high rainfall high elevation tropics, e.g. Columbia, might work there. If day length is immaterial, even a marginally tropical region such as Costa Rica might be suited. Of course, a variety that developed in Costa Rica at high elevation might be very popular in Florida, due to adaptability, and thence find its way to our friend in Borneo. To complicate these matters, Borneo is experiencing climate change after 150 million years of relatively stable climate, probably due to global deforestation and other human-induced atmospheric changes. Deforestation in Borneo isn't helping. So in this case, we want varieties with very wide adaptation, particularly regarding rainfall. Add termite resistance. All this is by way of suggesting that we need a species/variety matrix by which we evaluate our plants. Many of us, living on the margins of adaptation for species such as avacodo or citrus, can be very helpful in defining limits. Others can describe best varieties under optimum conditions. I have a small database for personal use that includes about 100+ characterizations and other info. It would need modification to change into something useful to people generally--it is tailored mainly to my own uses. (This is on Filemaker Pro 3.0 for Mac.) It would be good to design something that says, here in Wishyswashy, Arizona, this variety survives and produces after 28 degrees F, with minimal fall rainfall, and 21 inches of rain annually, whereas in Mudflats, Florida, the same variety suffered frost damage at the same temperature with 49 inches of annual rainfall with a heavy compliment of fall rains followed by winter drought. I'm oversimplifying to get the idea across. We would want to know how long it was 28, prior temperatures, etc. This means, probably, if we want to do this we all have to keep much better records. My Valencia orange doesn't care about average rainfall, only the rainfall this year. We need to break rainfall into no larger than monthly levels for reporting and of course record daily. Temperature needs to be recorded at least thrice daily to be meaningful and better four times with a nighttime low recorded by a min-max unit. If we can come up with a really good species/varietial recording method it will have the following characteristics: 1) It will include detailed description of characteristics on site. In very marginal situations, we may want some recording devices right at the individual plant. 2) It will allow for every kind of information about the plant species/variety that can be useful in evaluating suitability. 3) It will lend to modification, personalizing and updating without disturbing the general usefulness of the databas exchanged between users. In other words, we need to make the original so good that changes will be only chrome trim--we can still exhange engines. 4) It needs to permit comparison of multiple entries for a single plant species/variety. Most of what I have in my own data base, which does not meet the above criteria, is what I have gleaned from published materials elsewhere. It is spotty and sometimes contradictory. I believe most of the contradictions I read are differences in circumstance, not errors. In particular, chilling hours and temperature tolerances are critical for me because I live in a warm temperate region with pretensions of being sub-tropical. Most temperate fruit varieties don't get enough chill factor here, particularly on my site, which is surrounded by water and therefore milder. We are so close to the limit on subtropicals, e.g. citrus, that I am gambling a significant amount of money on trees that I would not consider 20 miles away. Varieties that I would consider would probably inappropriate for someone smack-dab in the middle of a climatic adaptation zone, who can go for quality and yield and devil take the hindmost. I can't take on another project but will support an effort to create a database. Someone should look at what CRFG has for a database and see if it is useful. It would be helpful to 1) come up with a database design that meets above critera and that 2) can be exchanged computer-to-computer without re-entering data. It seems to me sometimes stupid that I am abstracting entries in a CRFG fruit profile when with batter communications and compatibility I could import it. Well, that's enough steam for that engine until I find out if anyone else is interested. Dan Hemenway -------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: To Bill Monroe from Oliver Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:45:47 -0400 Hi Bill, you wrote: How does one get to "Visit Gene Joyner's place in West Palm Beach ("Unbelievable Acres")"? I am not sure, but I think that anyone who wants to visit can do so without charge. I paid nothing when I went with some other Fruit Club members. Mr. Joyner is a nice guy, and his yard is unbelievable. It is like a jungle full of tropical fruit trees. Mr. Joyner works at Mounts Botanical Gardens, so you could call there to speak with him or ask about his policy concerning his "yard." I have directions to his place. Let me know if you need them. You also said: My white sapote just went through a disturbing period in which it lost most of its mature lower leaves. The leaves turned yellow and dropped. I sprayed with minor elements and fertilized with iron and maganese. I found out latter that it may have been getting too much water. From your comments it seems that abundant water effects the white sapote. It is a drought-resistant tree, and it is said to do quite well in California even when totally neglected (and you know how dry California is). Based on that information, my guess is that you are correct--you gave it too much water. I know that it needs very good drainage. What is the soil like? You said: The next banana type I want to try is the Raja Pura which is called the "Bullet Proof" banana because it withstands the cold and fruits every 7 months vice 18. I have heard the same thing about the Raja Pura. I have eaten them, and I thought they were excellent--very high-quality. You asked: Could you tell me what causes premature fruit drop on Carambolas? Too much or too little water, and wind. Another possibility is lack of nutrients, but you should know if your trees are healthy or not. My lychees fell off the tree recently (very sad), but that is a common occurrence with lychees. A tree needs to be healthy and needs to have CONSISTENT watering and feeding while it has fruit on it. When a tree has a small root system (as all my trees have since they are young), it doesn't take much of a drought to cause it to drop everything. On the other hand, too much nitrogen or water will also cause it to drop its fruit. My advice is to keep your trees healthy, protect them from high winds (if possible), and (most importantly), use a MODERATE amount of water and fertilizer CONSISTENTLY while the tree is developing fruit. My yard is quite boring at the moment, but I have one pineapple forming and one sugar apple (that seems to never increase in size!) on the tree. Please write back and tell me how your trees are doing. Sincerely, Oliver --------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:47:59 -0400 Hi Leo, What do you think about sending a list to everyone that gives each person's location? I don't think anyone would object. The county and state would probably be sufficient. I know I would love to see such a list. Sincerely, Oliver ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:30:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" To: Leo Manuel Subject: No more newsletter?? I haven't seen the fruit newsletter for some time now. Did you discontinue it? Dan ------ Later: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:30:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" Leo, I am very grateful that you took the time to catch me up on the newsletter items. Some very interesting information that I intend to save. I am in Lake Worth, Florida, more or less at the northern end of South Florida, as far as growing fruit is concerned. My passion is mangos, but I'm interested in pretty much anything that tastes good and grows with out too too much fuss. In addition to 8 or 9 varieties of mango trees (most still small), I have several types of annona, some jackfruit trees, including one grafted cultivar, Honey Gold, some citrus, bananas, mamey sapote, jabotacaba, lychee, mulberry, and a couple persimmons that I will mostly like remove, since they seem to want a lot more winter chill to bear fruit. Thanks again. Dan Duprey And Dan, How old are the persimmon trees? Are they Japanese persimmon or American? I had to wait several years before my Fuyu persimmon trees began to bear, but they are worth the wait. I don't know how far south in Florida they bear, but we can ask the several other Floridians. Leo And a reply of: Hi Leo: Both persimmons have been in the ground three years. The Hanafuyu is 12-14 feet tall, and the fuyugaki about 8 or 9 feet tall. Where I live we normally get one or two nights down to freezing, maybe 6-8 nights per winter in the low forties or high thirties. Do you think I should give them another year? I double-checked and the last fruit newsletter was dated 4/14/97. I think the ones you already re-sent take me back to the middle of June. I'm glad to see your mailing list is still growing. It's nice not to be the only one who's obsessed with growing rare fruit! Dan Duprey ----------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:38:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Lory: SHARKWOOL@aol.com We have a fruit that the leaf looks like a split leaf elephant ear. It yields a long banana-shaped fruit that-when ripe- falls off the cobb in kernels like corn. it tastes like pinapple/melon. The outside is a dark green, inside milky white. Can't remember the name! Have any ideas? (Monstera Delisioso [sic] or "The Delicious Monster") We also have a mango tree that blooms after all the other mangos are done and gone. Don't know if it's a gene thing or a funky late bloomer. Someone must know this answer? The fruit is excellent none-the-less! Just to refresh your memory, we have Longans, Lychees, Sapadillo (Neiceberry as the Jamaicans call it- though the spelling is probably off), Mango, Banana-large and mini and the fruit described above. looking forward to correspondence, Lory -------------------------- From: Rosa Martinez-Gange Subject: Mexican Papayas Want: Papaya Seeds Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:59:02 +-1000 Dear Sir, I came across your email and website, just by reading the agricultural news. I opened up the webpage and being a farmer as we are, we are very much interested in your advertisement. We are from the Island of Guam in the Pacific located between Hawaii and the Philippines. The reason we are writing is we are interested in locating the company who sells seeds of our interest. I was just wondering if there is a website where we can order seeds. Right now my main interest is Sweet Mexican Giant Hybrid Papaya or any mexican sweet papayas and cherimoa seeds. Kindly please send email regarding this information. Also please send more information regarding being a member and what one must do to become one and also be a subscriber. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Send email to Rudolfo A. Gange at margan@kuentos.guam.net Also, if you have any catalogs of all your fruits. How can I obtain one? Address is Rudolfo A. Gange 152 Rosita Lane Dededo, GU 96912 I thank you most sincerely, Rudolfo A. Gange ------------------- Rudolfo, I publish the Rare Fruit News Online. It comes out twice each month, is free, and the readers are growers of sub-tropical or tropical fruit. I will publish your letter in the next issue, coming out Aug 1, and I'm sure you'll find help there. This is just a hobby of mine. I don't sell anything, however the reader/growers are extremely knowledgeable and I'm sure will have answers for you. Also, Rudolfo, visit Jonathan Byron's Garden Talk - New gardening discussion group at: http://209.25.46.109/Garden_Talk/disc7_frm.htm and post a request there. It MIGHT help. Also, try: GreenWeb's seeds: http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb/fruit.htm and the World Wide Seedbank: http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb/seedbank.htm But remember, I am putting your request in the next issue of Rare Fruit News Online, so someplace, you should get the help you need. Leo --------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:59:01 -0400 Letter Bill <--> Oliver Subject: Popularity of the white sapote From: "Oliver Patterson" you wrote: > I am surprised that no one is commercially growing the white > sapote in Florida for public consumption. Why is that? You know how Americans are--always reluctant to try new foods. The white sapote is often described as having a medicinal taste, which would probably scare off the 50 or so people in this country who would dare to try it. ;-) In other countries (e.g. Mexico, New Zealand) it is much more popular. It is more commonly grown in California than in Florida, too, for some reason. -- Oliver Patterson, Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) --------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 05:40:35 +0000 To: Brian White: hewlett@ozemail.com.au Brian White wrote: Hi Leo You may recall some time ago a discussion we had re: grafted Mangosteens. Attached are gifs of a paper I have regarding Durian, Mangosteen, Mango, Langsat-Duku, Sapodilla. I also have extensive texts re: Lychee and Longan, and Cacao. I have a complete copy of G. Weidman Groff's The Lychee and Lungan - USDA reject copy from Hawaii. Anyway, I hope this gives you something to go on re: grafting mangosteens. Cheers. Brian. Note: This will be available LATER. I'm trying to get a copy clear enough to OCR and send as text, rather than as a graphic. Leo ---------------------------- Small Farm News, Probably free to California residents, published by: Small Farm Center, UC Davis, Davis, CA, 95616 (916) 752-8136 "Links those who need information on small-scale farming with those who have the information. ----------------------- Another publication, free to California residents: *California Agriculture*, Bi-monthly, Division of Agriculture & Natural Resources, 300 Lakeside Dr., Oakland, CA 94612-3560. (510) 987-0044 ----------------- And this seems to be free to all growers, but is aimed at commercial fruit and vegatable growers. You might want to ask for a sample copy: *The Grower* e-mail: 102235.1756@compuserve.com Vance Publishing Corp, 10901 W. 84th Terrace Lenexa, KS 66214. (913) 438-8700 -------------------------------------- From: "George F. Emerich" CC: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Re: Miracle fruit - Bearing in So. Calif? Leo: I have a Miracle Fruit plant, Sapotaceae Synsepalum Dulcificum, (Hortis Third calls it Miraculous fruit) in my shadehouse which occasionally bears fruit but there is no fruit now. Dave Silber usually has plants so is a possible source. George p.s.: I will give you a full run down on Cherimoya Association when I get time but suffice to say, it is alive and thriving. gfe --------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:24:37 -0800 From: Leo Manuel Subject: Red Fortune Hyacinth Bean <-- That's Not A Rare Fruit! I have several volunteer plants of Red Fortune Hyacinth Bean, the first of which I planted about five years ago when we moved to this part of San Diego. The foliage (underside of leaves and leaf veins), flowers, and beans are shades of red-purple, and the beans are especially brilliant (possibly magenta?) red-purple. When the beans are cooked, they are green. They are so attractive to see that I seldom cook them. The pods are maybe 3/4 inch wide and possibly two inches long. The dry beans are pea-shaped, black, with a single white stripe going from one end to the opposite end. The vine grows ten to fifteen feet long, and are beautiful most of the year. If anyone wants to stop by to see, or want me to e-mail a picture, I'd by happy to oblige. I got the original seeds probably ten years ago from something called Ornamental Edibles, and the package had Lot #641 hand-written on it. It's hardly a rare fruit, but it's a rare sight! Leo ----------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:18:44 -0700 To: Leo Manuel From: "Jose M. Gallego" Hi Leo, As you know, I have a dying miracle fruit plant. I took it in an place it in the kitchen window. It is beginning to so signs of live. As soon as it recovers it should (notice the *should*) flower and bear fruit (wishful thinking). I will let you know. Take care, Jose ------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Miracle fruit - Bearing in So. Calif? Leo, Talk to Roger Meyer, 16531 Mt. Shelly Circle. Fountain Valley, CA 92708, (714) 839-0796. He sells the plants and has fruited them. Don ------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:41:37 -0400 From: Bill Monroe: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com Subject: Wax Jambu/ Fruit Tree Greetings, I just purchased a rather large potted Wax Jambu (?) from a friend of mine. My friend says the Wax Jambu is similiar to the rose apple but I have not yet been able to confirm this via the internet or traditional hardcopy source material. I would appreciate ANY information on this tree. Thanks in Advance, Bill Monroe, Palm Bay, Florida, Zone 9 ------- From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "WMonroe" Subject: Re: Wax Jambu/ Fruit Tree Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:09:40 -0400 Bill, the wax jambu is from SE Asia, though it has been introduced into Jamaica, Surinam and many other tropical countries. It bears fruits that look very appealing to me (though I have not yet had the pleasure of trying one). If I am not mistaken, it is also known as "Java Apple," and its botanical name is Syzygium samarangense (or malaccense). Since it is in the Syzygium genus, which includes the famous rose apple, I think it is reasonable to assume that it has similar cultural requirements, though I am sure that it is much more sensitive to cold (the rose apple can be grown even in San Francisco, which has a climate that surely would not be suitable for the wax jambu). It needs fertile soil for good fruit production, and it likes a long dry season. I once saw a very large wax jambu tree being sold for a *very* cheap price, but it was too large for my car. You are fortunate to have one. I hope it grows well! Oliver Patterson, Mount Dora, Florida (Sunset zone 26) ------------------------------------ To: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson), WMonroe@mailb.harris.com From: Matthew Shugart At 5:05 AM -0000 7/26/97, Bill Burson wrote: >>A suggestion was made to spray mangos with calcium nitrate to promote >>fruiting. >>Does this work on other fruit trees? That would be *potassium* nitrate, KNO3. There was an article in Fruit Gardener within the last year about this. Frank James, a CRFG member in Santa Ana, Calif. (whom I have referred to before) says you can use KNO3 on stone fruits that have received insufficient chilling. I have the notes at home on how to do this if anyone is interested. I have never tried it myself. Matthew Shugart ------------------- Bob Holzinger says: Hi Leo, The topic of miracle fruit was tossed around in some of your earlier newsletters, but most of the people who said they had bearing plants were in Florida. Do you know anyone with a bearing plant in So. Calif.? If you go to the monthly meeting of CRFG could you ask around and see if anyone has a bearing plant? I and one of my fellow Amgen employees have a slight scientific interest in the properties of the fruit, so we would like to get a couple of fruits to test the "miracle" abilities. Ultimately I would like to have a plant, but that's looking like a costly proposition ($60 from Exotica). Talk to you later, Bob --------------- To: SherHoudin@aol.com More Websites To Visit Subject: web sites for exotic fruit trees & seeds From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Joel, you had e-mailed me regarding wanting web sites for rare fruits. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled on one master listing, but got booted of while perusing, before I could bookmark it. If anybody knows of it please let me know. Meanwhile, here are some others http://www.datasync.com/sbe/fruit.html http://www.tradepbs.com/pbscgi/pbsquote http://www.mnsinc.com/menoldre/R&D_Enterprises/Fruitnut.html http://www.gen.com/exoticseeds/seeds/frunut.htm http://www.e-universe.com/richardm/fruit.htm ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 Amos needs KIWI advice and help From: Amos Yoder Hello I am from Goshen, Indiana, USA and I am interested in rare fruit and how a person grows kiwi fruit, and could you put me on your mailing list ? Thanks for your time Amos Yoder --- Amos, you probably know there are several very different kiwi fruit vines. Some will grow outdoors in Indiana, but others will not. I'm hoping one of our readers will send more information to you, as to what you can try there. Also, post your question in Garden Talk: http://209.25.46.109/ or http://209.25.46.109/Garden_Talk/disc7_frm.htm Leo ----------------------------- I hope Carol can get help from any of the few of you who are growing banana trees and other tender subtropical plants in the colder climates. Please respond directly to Carol c/o Kenneth Walton, as she has not yet subscribed to Rare Fruit News Online. Leo Subject: How to care for a banana tree in New York state Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:08:04 -0700 From: Kenneth Walton Hi. My name is Carol. I live in a small town called Plattekill in New York state. I have purchased a Banana tree, and I am interested in knowing the proper way to care for it. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you. Carol --------------------------- End of RFNO #15 >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - August 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 08/15/97 16 This issue is a dwarf in contrast to the one preceeding it. You may find it more inviting to read. ------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Earl" Subject: Bananas for cooler climates Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:44:15 -0700 Hello... In the last newsletter there was some discussion about growing Bananas in colder areas. I live in Modesto, which is in Northern California, abount 60 miles east of San Franicisco. (San Joaquin Valley) I have fruited Bananas for several years now. We get about 10 days a year that it goes below 32F. I have even carried fruit on the plants through our cold winter (Many days the temps didnt rise above 45F.) And they still ripened in the spring. The type of Banana I grow is a dwarf that fruits at 5 to 6 ft high. I call it " California Gold." Though I believe it to be a Orinoco type Banana, this Banana is quite tastey. I never provide my bananas with any protection. The leaves freeze just about every year. But the trunk survives and produces about 50 lbs of fruit during the summer. Sometimes I have offshoots available for free if picked up at my place. Feel free to visit my web site........http://www.thevision.net/jearl/ or email me at ..........jeff.earl@ccc-infonet.edu Jeff Earl Modesto,Ca ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 17:24:48 -0400 From: Bill Lady Subject: New E=Mail Address Hi, All: Please change my e-mail address to the following: blady@peganet.com Thanks, and please pardon the inconvenience. Bill Lady -------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:15:37 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: Bananas in Florida Greetings: Carol and Ray I understand you are interested in Bananas. I live in Palm Bay, FL. Zone 9. Palm Bay is located on Floridas east coast just below Cape Canaveral. Currently, I am growing in my limited backyard the following types of bananas: Raja Puri (tasty, bountiful, cold hardy) Thousand Fingers (thousands of tiny bananas are produced on the head) Praying Hands (Bananas are fused, appear as if praying) Orinoco (Regular "Horse" Banana ) Mysore (Beautiful specimen, tasty) Dwarf Orinoco ( Short and very stout) Golden Aromatic ( Smells great when flowering) Saba (Giant among the bananas, 25 plus feet tall!) I also fertilize my bananas with miracle grow, but I use the Acidic type. They seem to respond better and since its very hard to over fertilize bananas I feed them every weekend. On one of my Orinocos I have a head with over 60 bananas! Now if it can survive the intense thunderstorms we have been having I will be in banana bread heaven in 60 plus days! :-) I have read "The Complete Book of Bananas" and find it very motivating and filled with curious bits of data. I would like to trade bananas suckers with those who also find bananas of interest. I now seeking a Red Jamican, Ae Ae, and "Gold Finger". Possibly we could trade? Ray, when you bare root your bananas they don't dry up and go bad? Do you wrap the corm or do anything special to it? Regards, Bill Monroe Zone 9 -----------Ray Responds:------------- Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 00:10:51 UT From: "Raymond Gerlach" Subject: response to bill monroe's question You asked if when I bareroot my bananas for winter storage I do anything special such as wrapping the rootball.No,the only trouble I've ever had is with very small babies so I pot them up and place them under grow lights or give them to friends to place in a sunny window until they can plant them outside the following spring. Half of my basement is unfinished and closed off (no heat and a dirt floor), so I can store bare rooted plants, bulbs,corms,figs,plumerias,etc. and not bother with them until spring once again arrives. Ray Gerlach ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: David : Rack12@aol.com Subject: Miracle Fruit Some people have been asking about growing miracle fruit in California. I live near Santa Monica and, after several failed attempts, have figured out how to grow the beast in our rather rigorous climate. I have mine planted in the ground in the complete shade of my guava tree. There is no direct sunlight. That seems to be very important. Every other plant with any amount of direct sunlight has died. I have placed a "growth tube" around the plant to increase the humidity and to stave off the, er, uh, comparatively cold winters we have here in L.A. Basically, all you gotta do is take a 15 gallon pot and cut off the bottom. Place what's left over the plant. The sides of the plant will be covered but the top is left open. I did this last winter in a desperate attempt to keep it from dying from the cold and it worked. The leaves of the plant are just now reaching the top of the pot that surrounds it. Next winter I will use a larger pot. A few years back I got a miracle fruit to produce one miraculous berry, so it is possible in Southern California. David -------------------------- From: Trudy : sche@webtv.net Message-Id: <199708021057.DAA03534@mailtod-111.bryant.webtv.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 06:57:57 -0400 Subject: personal note Leo, It did take a while to read, but I loved it. It was loaded with information and I've got lots of new bookmarks. I would have been happy if it were three times longer. Thanks for all your trouble. Trudy -------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 21:09:07 +0000 Subject: Using Gibberellic Acid on Plants Sent by Don Gholston Gibberellic Acid Gibberellic acid (actually a group of related substances called gibberellins) was discovered as a metabolic byproduct of the fungus Gibberella fujikuroi, which causes the stems of growing rice to elongate so rapidly the plant collapsed. Synthetic forms of gibberellic acid are available commercially. Gibberellic acid (GA) is a very potent hormone whose natural occurrence in plants controls their development. Since GA regulates growth, applications of very low concentrations can have a profound effect. Timing is critical: too much GA may have an opposite effect from that desired; too little may require the plant to be repeatedly treated to sustain desired levels of GA. Effects of Gibberellic Acid 1. Overcoming dormancy. Treatment with high concentrations of GA is effective in overcoming dormancy and causing rapid germination of seed. Concentrations of about 2 ppm can cause tubers to sprout earlier. 2. Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers.] 3. Increased fruit set. When there is difficulty with fruit set because of incomplete pollination, GA may be effectively used to increase fruit set. The resulting fruit maybe partially or entirely seedless. GA has increased the total yield in greenhouse tomato crops both as a result of increased fruit set and more rapid growth of the fruit. 4. Hybridizing. Pollination within self-incompatible clones and between closely related species may some times be forced by the application of GA and cytokinin to the blooms at the time of hand pollination. 5. Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees. 6. Frost protection. Spraying fruit trees at full-blossom or when the blossoms begin to wither can offset the detrimental effects of frost. 7. Root formation,. GA inhibits the formation of roots in cuttings Recipes Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry. Avoid ingestion of GA. The powder may be dissolved as specified below to give the desired concentration. Concentration GA Water Purpose parts/million mg. ml (or cup) _________________________________________________________________ 50-------------125--------2400---10 1/2-----Early flowering 200------------125---------600----2 1/2-----Early flowering 800------------125---------160------2/3-----Blossom set 2000-----------125----------60------1/4-----Seed germination 1% paste-------125----------1 tsp. lanolin--Growth promoter =========================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:41:22 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 08/01/97 15 Hi Leo, I think you have created a monster!!! It is amazing to me just how much interest there is in rare fruits. If anyone is interested, I have a collection of scientific papers on Miracle fruit, and actually wrote a thesis on the subject about ten years ago. There are a number of plants which produce protein sweeteners, of which Synsepalum dulcificum is one. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------- From: "Ryan Samuelson" Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:39:40 -0700 My name is Ryan Samuelson and I'm a student at the University of CA Santa Barbara. I have some dwarf bananas and papayas growing in containers and I recently bought some cassabanana (sicana odifera) seeds. All I know about it is that it's a vine approx. 40 ft. long with orange/yellow banana shaped fruits with a sweet odor. If you have any information at all on the plant I'd appreciate it. I'm also very interested in your newsletter and would like to subscribe. Thanks, Ryan ------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:24:51 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: Ryan: croton@earthlink.net Subject: cassabanana (sicana odifera) seeds. Dear Ryan: Leo Manuel sent me your inquiry to answer. The cassabanana vine is perennial, herbaceous, fast-growing and heavy, requiring a strong trellis. In the wild it will climb trees to 50 ft. or more. Flowers are white or yellow, urn-shaped, the male 3/4 in. long and the female about 2 in. long. The ellipsoid or cylinderical fruit is renowned for its strong, sweet, melon-like odor. The fruits are 12 to 24 in. long and up to 4 1/2 in. thick and are hard-shelled with a orange-red, maroon, dark purple or entirely jet black color. They are smooth and glossy when ripe with firm, orange-yellow to yellow, cataloupe-like tough, juicy flesh. The cassabanana is grown from seeds or cuttings. The seeds should be planted in a light medium with bottom heat in much the same way you would treat squash or cucumber seed, and should germinate within about 2 weeks. A high temperature during the fruiting season is needed to assure perfect ripening. The fruit remains in good condition for several months if kept dry and out of the sun. The ripe flesh, sliced thin, is eaten raw, especially in summer when it is appreciated as cooling and refreshing. However, it is mainly used for making jam or other preserves. I hope some of this helps. Don Gholston California Rare Fruit Growers http://www.crfg.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Carr: MysteryCpl@aol.com Subject: Black Sapote Hello...I found you on the internet after an extensive search for information about Black Sapote. I am a Pastry Chef, and I I am interested in using this fruit in my restaurant. If you could send me some information about it, ie. seasonal availability, possible contacts for purchase(no one in my area can get it or had ever heard of it), it would be greatly appreciated. I am in E. Central Iowa. Thank you for your time Thomas Carr C.P.C. Note to readers: If you have additional information for Thomas, please write directly to him at the above address. Leo -------------- From: DGholston@aol.com To: Thomas: MysteryCpl@aol.com Subject: Black sapote Greetings Thomas: Your request was forwarded to me for an answer. Black sapote can be grown in southern Florida and parts of southern California, but is seldom seen in the markets. You might try one of these Florida sources, however: J. R. Brooks & Son P.O. Drawer 9 Homestead, FL 33090 (305) 247-3544 Garden of Delights 14560 S.W. 14th St. Davie, FL 33325-4217 (305) 370-9004 Don Gholston --------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: mangos Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:05:39 -0700 Hi Leo, I had an interesting visit with Tony Brown this past Saturday. He bought the Bates Rincon Delmar Rancho a year and a half ago and wants to grow a little of this and a little of that for commercial fruit production. One fruit he is definitely going to try is mango. He bought all of Rob Brokaw's seedling trees (~100 Criollo (sp?)) and has a frost free spot to plant them. He is coming down to San Diego this month sometime to talk to Jerry Stadeli and I suggested that he talk to you and Jim about your varieties. So you will be getting a call from Tony soon, if you haven't already heard from him. He plans to plant the rootstocks to see how they will do (they're about five foot tall in tall fives) and then go back to topwork them to the varieties he has chosen. So you have me to thank (or curse) for his call. Talk to you soon. Later, Bob ------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: Carol: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:22:03 -0700 Hello Carol, I saw your request for info on bananas and thought I would drop you a quick note. I am growing 20 varieties of bananas in So. California and I live 20 minutes from Seaside Bananas which has 14 acres of bananas with over 60 varieties. If there's something specific you need to know, if I can't help you, then Doug Richardson will (he runs Seaside Bananas). It would help if you could tell me what variety of banana you bought, most likely it's a Cavendish of some sort. All bananas will fruit when they have put out their pre-determined number of leaves, so don't think it will never fruit, you just have to be patient. I would advise putting it in the largest container you can find that you can put wheels on to roll it inside for the winter. That way it doesn't lose a lot of roots each time you dig it up to take it in for the winter. Bananas are heavy feeders and drinkers in the heat of the summer, but they stop growing when the temperature goes below 50-55 F. No serious damage will occur until the temp. approaches freezing. If there is to be a brief frost and you want to protect the banana outside, the most important place to have coverage is over the top of the tree, sides are secondary. Any more questions, feel free to email. Sincerely, Bob Holzinger ---------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: Raymond Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 08:30:10 -0700 Hello Raymond, The two sources of bananas through the mail that you could try are Seaside Bananas in La Conchita, Calif. and Going Bananas in Homestead, Florida. Both places have a large selection of varieties and will send corms through the mail. I don't have their mailing addresses on me right now, but if you can't find anything for them, let me know and I'll dig something out for you. Good luck! Sincerely, Bob Holzinger --------------------------------- Help Request Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 18:21:09 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Hello Leo: Thank you for your reply, and the chance to recieve your newsletter. I currently live in Charlotte, NC. I am a long-time organic vegetable gardener, recently converted to the organic fruit faith. My collection currently contains banana (dwarf cavendish, velutina, and an unknown var), Kiwi (A.deliciosa, Issai), peaches, apples, blueberries, strawberries, western sand cherries, american plums, juneberries, passionfruit (maypop), cornellian cherry (dogwood) and several Table Grapes. All of my tropical stuff is in 15-30 gall barrels to be moved into a sunroom at the first hint of cold. I am interested in shareing general info and especially info on var.s that can take some chill. I am in the process of buying/researching: Raja puri, williams hybrid, grand nain, dwarf red(?) and basjoo bananas; star fruit; meiwa kumquat; Changsha (changshi?) mandarin; Keriberry (day neutral raspbery); meyer and ponderosa lemon; pineapple guava; gooseberry/currant/jostaberrys; Pineapple guava; and others such as tea camellia and stevia. As protected space is limited, I am especially fascinated with vars. such as basjoo banana, keriberry, and changshi mandarin, that are far hardier or otherwise different from their more popular cousins. Also desireable are fruits that bear more than once a year, or based on factors other than season. Thanks again for the opportunity to share information on these topics. Darryl Clark and, later: Hello Leo: First of all YES, I need your back issues! Thanks very much for offering them. I have something called a Dwarf Red banana on order. I don't know much about it's habits or cold tolerance, so I plan to put it on my list of high attention plants until I know more. My climate zone is USDA 7, but I consider my propery a 7+ or 8- probably because of being on a southwest facing hill. I checked out the resources that you recommended and thank you. One of the things I have not been able to find on the net is information on specific vars. Many websites have general info on citrus or bananas, etc. But I haven't found many that mention specific facts about specific vars. It would be great to see the different varieties mentioned along with their fruiting speed,fruiting needs, hardiness, insect/disease resistance, shade sensitivity, etc. A general description of a fruit type does not help when trying to decide what variety to aquire. Even when this info is mentioned in catalogs, there seems to be much contradiction between sources. Do you know of any sources for this kind of info? Thanks again for your time Darryl Clark ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:56:57 -0700 From: Robert Stone Hi, Leo- I have been out of touch for a while, and usually look to Juno for my e-mail. I finally looked on Netscape and found several of your messages. I am taking notes and will send some messages soon. I'm glad your apple graft is coming along well. My tag on thet tree shows the variety to be IRUZO, but it may also be IRUZU. I understand it came from Costa Rica. On August 23rd there will be a tropical fruit seminar at Selby Gardens, in Sarasota, Florida. I have no further information at the present time, but will respond to e-mail at robsto@juno.com with any information that might come along. If I get more details I will send them to you. On Sunday, September 21st, the Sarasota Fruit and Nut Society will have a rare fruit tree sale at Phillipi Park on Route 41 in south Sarasot from ten to four. I will send you the e-mail address of the lady who will be running it. Her name is Debra Sims. That's all for now, Bob -------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:40:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jared Corbett Browning Hello, My name is Jared Browning and I live in Palo Alto, CA. I enjoy growing or attempting to grow tropical and sub/semi-tropical fruit on my windowsill and small back patio. Since moving to California one year ago, I have started the following plants from seed: cherimoya, key lime, sugar apple, carambola, guava, feijoa, mango, avocado, white sapote, pink grapefruit, blackberry-jam fruit, cashew apple, tamarind, raisin-tree, naranjilla, annatto, and tamarillo. I am also trying (not from seed) lychee, coffee, Chinese mombin, dwarf banana, pineapple, and Maclura. The plants that I would dearly love to grow next are ice-cream bean and star apple-- the latter I have tried from seed without success. I look forward to reading your thoughts in the Rare Fruit News Online. Sincerely, Jared Browning -------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 15:26:53 +0000 From: sainaron@samart.co.th Subject: Re: Any Australian fruit grower? Are there any Australian fruit fruit grower reading this news group? I grow longans for a living in Thailand, and I would very much like to share discussions with you. -------------------------------- If you live in or near Florida, listen up!! From: robsto@juno.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:01:56 EDT For all Florida members: There will be a tropical fruit seminar at Selby Botanical Gardens in Sarasota on Saturday, August 23rd.Many experienced growers and experts will make presentations. There will be displays and printed material available. Usually there are fruit trees donated for a silent auction. The fee is $27.50, and includes a box lunch. Contact the gardens by phone at 941 054-1237 or by mail at 811 Palm Ave. South, Sarasota, FL 34236. For directions to the gardens, contact me at robsto@juno.com Bob Stone -------------------------------- Found on the Internet: Something else to subscribe to Subject: New Listserver for Banana, heliconia, ginger etc. Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:39:01 -0500 From: Keith Benson Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison Hello, All interested parties are invited to join the zingiber list, an internet group dedicated to the Order Zingiberales. Discussions will include the taxonomy, history, culture, and biology of Banana, Heliconia, Ginger, Strelitzia etc. We hope that this list will also serve to help members locate plant materials, but ask that commercial advertizing be kept to a minimum. Signup is on a webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/Zinlist.html or http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/Musa.html Hope to see some of you there! Keith --- Keith Benson DVM http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/ --------------------- Help! Tell me about my galapagos guava (Psidium galapagea) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:22:09 -0700 From: Richard Reid Leo: Please add me to your rare fruit mailing list, it sounds very interesting. I live in Lakeside, here in the SD foothills. I am currently growing citrus, avocados, star fruit, tropical guava, pineapple guava, jaboticaba, mammey sapote, black sapote, cherimoya, mango, lychee, longan, papaya, jakfruit, pineapple, bananna and probably others that I am forgetting about. I also have a standard assortment of temperate fruits (peaches, apples, grapes and so forth). I have been growing for about two years now, so I am still learning what will and will not grow out here. I do have a question; at one of the SD CRFG chapter meetings I won a plant called a galapagos guava (Psidium galapagea?), do you or any one know anything about this fruit? It is growing very well, but I cannot find any information on what it is. Thanks, And I look forward to the newsgroup, Richard Reid ------------------------------------- Want: Green Sapote Seeds! From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Green sapote Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:17:10 -0700 Hi Leo, I just read an old CRFG Yearbook (1973) and got inspired to try more types of sapotes, true sapotes that is. An article on green sapote (Pouteria viride) and Mamey sapote (P. sapota) gave me some ideas and now I need to find a source of green sapote seeds. Is there anyone on the newsletter mailing that has green sapote seeds that they can share? I can send peatmoss, bags and enough money to cover postage. A short note by Paul Thomson suggested that mamey sapote could be grown in California if it is grafted on a green sapote rootstock. So that's what I plan to do, once I get some green sapote seeds. I will also grow the green sapote for its fruit also. Thanks Leo. Later, Bob >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - August 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 09/01/97 17 This edition is a largish one again. Number of subscribers is about 95. That is enough that my email system is sometimes balky. IÕm going to try to divide the list into three parts, mailing each newsletter three times, so the likelihood of making errors on my part will be great. Be sure to let me know if you donÕt get the newsletter within a couple of days after I mail it. You know that it has been coming on the first and fifteenth of each month. I will try to keep that schedule, for the time being, anyway. My only concern is that IÕll screw it up, so IÕm counting on you to help me keep it on course. The NEEM supplement was too large, but I didnÕt want to edit it down. I should have looked for a description more slim, but didnÕt think of it. I think I may have another NEEM supplemt consisting of responses to the first one, but it will be a few days away. So, if you have anything to pass on about NEEM, you have time. I appreciate it when your Subject: line is descriptive of what your letter contains. Otherwise, I feel obliged to modify it, and that takes time.... Thanks to those who did! ---------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:22:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Benson Subject: Tissue Culture Hello again, Anyone out there have experience with tissue culturing any of the zingiberales? I have tried bananas and would like some input from the more experienced. thanks, Keith --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:57:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" To: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com Subject: Bananas - Exchanging Plants Bill, I'm growing some bananas in Lake Worth, a bit south of you. I do have a goldfinger, that I bought from Going Bananas, but I lost track of which plant it is. Eventually, after some of my bananas fruit, I may be able to figure it out, and by then should have some pups to share, if you are still looking for one. Meantime, if you would like a pisang raja, mine has a healthy pup that you are welcome to. I do have one small Jamaica Red you're welcome to, but it's never been healthy, so you would be risking spreading disease or nematodes into your plantings. I also have a Kru, that I would like to get rid of, because it hates nights that go below 40-some degrees. Do you have a greenhouse?? I have a couple questions for you: Has your golden aromatic fruited yet, that is, have you personally experienced the fragrance it's noted for? Someone in the local rare fruit club said that his golden aromatic plants produce good fruit, but not the aroma they are noted for in their native land. I'm interested in knowing a bit more about your Miracid regiman. Do you use standard strength? How much do you give each plant? Do you fertilize through the cool part of the winter as well? Dan Duprey - Central Palm Beach County, Florida ---------------------------------- Subject: Letters between Jeff Earl and Edward Gribble about BANANAS "Jeff Earl" Edward Gribble Subject: Information on FloridaÕs ŌGoing BananasĶ Somebody wanted specs on my neighbor, "Going Bananas". 24401 SW 197 Ave. Homestead, FL 33031 (305) 247-0397 He sells large, healthy, carefully prepared stock, and this care is reflected in his prices. Ed Griffin - egriffin@shadow.net - USDA Zone 10b (FL) - Sunset 25 ---------------------------- Subject: Fruit Drop (premature) From: Bill Burson: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:36:42 EDT About two weeks ago my Che bushes had ample berries to bring to the SD CRFG for the share table, but they weren't ripe yet. I haven't been able to visit them this last week because of a knee injury (my knee is trying to convince me that I cannot play full force with 7 year old kids without paying for it later). That aside, today I noticed that most of my Che berries have dropped (flavorless) and I have only <5% of what was there two weeks ago. I have been watering regularly and never fertilize so... Any ideas to prevent this for next year? By the way the ones that are left are exquisite. Any body that wants a few, can come over and taste them this week, I'm not sure they will last any longer than that. My Frederick has dropped so many PassionFruits that I may set up a roadside stand, I'd also sell some of the Strawberry Guava & Burgundy plums that are testing the limb strength of the mother tree. Bill Burson -------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:57:58 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: powaybill@juno.com Subject: Re: Fruit Drop (premature) Bill, I am amazed that you have ripe ches this time of the year. Mine won't be ready for another six weeks or more. It is hard to say what the cause of your fruit drop may have been. Try giving the bush some fertilizer next year. Don Gholston ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:01:26 -0700 From: "Jose M. Gallego" Subject: Re: Fruit Drop (premature) Hi Bill, The Che at Quail Gardens is also dropping some of its fruit and those that are ready on the tree their quality is poor. May be a couple of weeks more. One of the ways to find out what is going on is to test your soil. If you are coming to our meeting next week bring me some soil from your Che. Dig a hole about 6"-12" (or as soon as you see the feeding roots) at the middle of the drip line. Bring about 1/4 lb. If you want, you could make a composite from several holes around the tree. Also bring a couple its leaves. Give a call if you want to talk about it. As you mention, chances are that it may needed to be fertilized, more potassium and/or phosphate, but to be sure I could do a quick test on its soil. Save some, will ya? :^) ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 01:10:24 -0700 From: the ancient mariner Reply-To: sainaron@samart.co.th To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 08/01/97 15 I thought I am on your list of The RFNO. I must be mistaken as I have not received the mid-August issue at the time of writing. If I am not on your list, what must I do to get on it? Bless you for your work which benefits the community. -------- Leo replies: I'd like your name, please, and remind me of where you live and what you are interested in growing. Leo --------- And A. Mariner replies to LeoÕs reply: My name is Sainarong Rasananda. I live in Thailand. My e-mail address is as above. I grow longans, over 1000 of them, for a living. (I have been using the pseudonym, the ancient mariner, for a long time, and am too lazy to keep changing the 'option' box. I use the pseudonym even in correspondence with my children and my close friends). If you require anymore info, please let me know. Looking forward to hearing from you, and to receiving the RFNO. Sainarong Rasananda ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:46:25 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: GA Concentration To: DGholston@aol.com, leom@rarefruit.com Don, Where would you purchase "Gibberellic Acid" and could you recommend a process for applying to bananas to promote growth and fruiting? Would I apply as a paste or a mixed spray? How much? Best Regards, Bill Monroe Zone 9 Palm Bay, Fl -------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com Subject: Re: GA Concentration Bill, Farm supply places (at least here in California) sell a Gibberellic Acid liquid product that is called Gib-Gro. I believe this is sprayed on the whole palnt. Attached is some information on the use of GA posted at our web site. It describes applying GA in a 1% lanolin paste to the growing bud. To get "pure" GA you probably need to go to a chemical supply compay. Monsanto is one that sells it I believe. Don Gholston Sent by Don Gholston Gibberellic Acid Gibberellic acid (actually a group of related substances called gibberellins) was discovered as a metabolic byproduct of the fungus Gibberella fujikuroi, which causes the stems of growing rice to elongate so rapidly the plant collapsed. Synthetic forms of gibberellic acid are available commercially. Gibberellic acid (GA) is a very potent hormone whose natural occurrence in plants controls their development. Since GA regulates growth, applications of very low concentrations can have a profound effect. Timing is critical: too much GA may have an opposite effect from that desired; too little may require the plant to be repeatedly treated to sustain desired levels of GA. Effects of Gibberellic Acid 1. Overcoming dormancy. Treatment with high concentrations of GA is effective in overcoming dormancy and causing rapid germination of seed. Concentrations of about 2 ppm can cause tubers to sprout earlier. 2. Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers.] 3. Increased fruit set. When there is difficulty with fruit set because of incomplete pollination, GA may be effectively used to increase fruit set. The resulting fruit maybe partially or entirely seedless. GA has increased the total yield in greenhouse tomato crops both as a result of increased fruit set and more rapid growth of the fruit. 4. Hybridizing. Pollination within self-incompatible clones and between closely related species may some times be forced by the application of GA and cytokinin to the blooms at the time of hand pollination. 5. Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees. 6. Frost protection. Spraying fruit trees at full-blossom or when the blossoms begin to wither can offset the detrimental effects of frost. 7. Root formation,. GA inhibits the formation of roots in cuttings Recipes Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry. Avoid ingestion of GA. The powder may be dissolved as specified below to give the desired concentration. Concentration GA Water Purpose parts/million mg. ml (or cup) _________________________________________________________________ 50-------------125--------2400---10 1/2-----Early flowering 200------------125---------600----2 1/2-----Early flowering 800------------125---------160------2/3-----Blossom set 2000-----------125----------60------1/4-----Seed germination 1% paste-------125----------1 tsp. lanolin--Growth promoter =========================================================== To: leom@rarefruit.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:25:52 +0200 From: Jack Tomlinson Hi, while searching for useful info on longan I came upon your site My name is Jack Tomlinson and I am a litchi farmer in South Africa. My orchard is 16 years old and is really giving me great fruit I live in a little town called "Hazy View", situated in the eastern lowveld of the now Mpumalanga province. To make it easier to find on a map, we are 25Km from the Kruger National Park's south western border. Our elevation is about 550 metres above sea level. My litchi's (lychee) are of the Mauritius cultivar, my mango's are Kent, my avacado's are Pinkerton and Fuerte and I also have a few hundred Macadamia nut trees cultivar unknown, but great bearers.Our rainfall is in the region of 600-900 mm per year, mostly from August to March. During the winter months we have to irrigate.It is done with micro irrigation delivering approx. 100 Litres per hour. I also planted some longan a couple of weeks ago, but can not get a cultivar name from my supplier. So I am really in the dark, will surely make the best of it. Looking forward to hearing from you Jack ---------------------------------------- From: Darryl Clark Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 05:55:10 +0000 Subject: Star Fruit from seed and plant/seed exchange Darryl Clark wrote: > > Hello again Leo: > > Have you ever tried to grow Star Fruit from seed? My local supermarket has a few of them on the shelf and I was wondering if this experiment will end up being a complete waste of time. Also is it acceptable to ask for plant/seed trading partners through your newsletter? Thanks again! Darryl Clark ------------ Leo replies: Darryl, I haven't tried to grow Star Fruit from seed. I will post your letter to see if any of the readers respond. It's ok to post what you have to trade and want to receive, but be careful of import regulations into your location. So long as the major focus of of this newsletter is exchange of information about plants, I have no objection to an occasional such post. Leo ---------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: "'jeff.earl@ccc-infonet.edu'" Cc: "'Leo Manuel'" Subject: bananas Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:23:51 -0700 Hello Jeff, I saw your comments on bananas in Modesto and thought I would give you my ideas. You might consider a top over the banana plants for the winter, one that the leaves don't touch. It would save some of the leaves from freezing, especially if you put a 110 W light (or larger) at the base of the plants for heat. The Orinoco is the hardiest variety I have seen so far. The fruit has three sides, it's quite triangular. There are better eating bananas, but in your climate non that could take the cold and still mature fruit. Keep up the good work! Sincerely, Bob Holzinger ----------- Bob, You are right. I could save some of the leaves if I covered my Banana trees, but I found that to be somewhat of a hassle. Also the fruit bunch dosent seem to be affected much by the loss of leaves during winter. I try to time my plantings so that my trees are around 4 ft tall when winter comes, that way they have time to regrow at least 10 leaves before they flower in July. This seems to be a sufficiant number to bring the fruit to maturity in October. They average 7 hands of 8 Bananas. Your description of the Orinoco Banana leaves me wondering if my trees are of that Variety. All of my Bananas have at least 4 sides, not the 3 that you mention. Have you seen my web page? Its at ....http://www.thevision.net/jearl/ I have pictures of my plants and fruit, perhaps you could help me verify my trees. Jeff Earl Modesto, CA --------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 01:08:40 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Standard format for e-mails The Rare Fruit Online News is getting voluminious. Every message is very interesting. However, some readers may be interested in certain subjects only. To help these readers shift through the news quickly, may I suggest that you, Leo, set up a standard format for all correspondence? For example, The 'subject' should describe precisely what the content of the message is about. Thanks for a very useful newsletter. Sainarong ------------ Sainarong, and to all readers of Rare Fruit News Online, I hadn't thought about asking the readers to make the SUBJECT be descriptive, but it would help me a lot, also. Believe it or not, I've edited many of the SUBJECT contents, (as well as the MESSAGES) to make them more meaningful. May I also ask, that you edit to remove the "> quotations " unless they're needed for clarity. And, I also ask that you not interweave your answers with the "> quotations " as it complicates editing. In other words, as much as possible, let's try to keep our good humor, but also aim for clarity and brevity when possible. I may try to include the SUBJECT of each message that's going to be in the newsletter at the top of the newsletter, so you can go directly to what you most are interested in. That is, if the SUBJECTS get to be sufficiently descriptive. I'm not complaining - I'm happy with the interest that the newsletter has generated, but I think YOU will find RFNO more inviting when the rest of YOU have done this. Leo -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Staples, Ian" To: Leo Manuel Subject: On the subject of Subjects & quotations Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:05:00 +1000 G'day Leo. You surprised me by saying: >> Sainarong, and to all readers of Rare Fruit News Online, I hadn't thought about asking the readers to make the SUBJECT be descriptive ... What's the point of "Subject:" if people don't use it?? But then I realised that some of my own colleagues often send out messages that give no idea of their content until they are read -- and often one has to "open" an attachment to do that. [And then find it's of no interest whatsoever. :) ] So, yes, it would be very useful (I should have thought, mandatory) if people would use sensible "Subjects" in their contributions to you. However, I'm not quite in such full agreement with this: >> May I also ask, that you edit to remove the "> quotations " unless they're needed for clarity. And, I also ask that you not interweave your answers with the "> quotations " as it complicates editing. I guess it rather depends on the topic and the contribution, but it is certainly an old Usenet protocol to quote material one is responding to in the course of the actual response, so readers can quickly see the "cause and effect" of each point made, so to speak. But that may be more in the context of a "debate" than simply providing information in response to a request. I notice that some people in Usenet discussion groups insist on quoting the whole of a previous contribution, even if only responding to a few specific points embedded in it. While there may be some argument for this practice in an adversarial "debating" situation -- so that you can't be accused of "taking material out of context", for example -- I personally find it a nuisance to have to work though reams of previously read material only to find a few "Me too's" buried in it. :-) But the thing that most annoys me is the practice of including the *whole* of a previous contribution as a simple appendage to a response. What a waste of bandwidth! (Aided and abetted I might add, by the that stupid default of "quote the lot back" implemented in Microsoft's mail systems. I'm sure that, at least half the time, users don't even realise they are doing it!) Cheers, Ian Staples ------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:16:46 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Re: Star Fruit from seed and plant/seed exchange Thanks again Leo, I really appreciate the way you handle this newsletter. I would read 100 pages of this info if it got that large. Take care. Darryl Clark ---------------------- From: "Greg Daley." Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:27:01 +1000 In reply to "Any Australian Longan grower" Sainarong Rasananda (2nd August). Let me introduce myself, I operate a Subtropical fruit and nut nursery in Australia (Northern NSW) and propagate quite an extensive range of fruit and nuts and am always fascinated about anything new. Regards Longans I have a good friend that grows them commercially and has found quite a good market late in the season following the lychees. Our latitude is 29 degrees south of the equator with mild winters. This friend does not have internet connection so he cannot reply. He used to grow quite an extensive selection of exotic fruits, but as the demand for economics out of his block of land became more important he has gradually increase his longan trees in preference to other less productive types. I have been propagating Longans and do find them rather difficult to graft. I have discovered though cincturing the scionwood in Mid summer and grafting in Autumn 2 months later the most successfull. Marcotting is also more difficult than Lychees but it certainly is quite viable. If any one has any ideas or tips they would be appreciated. It is one week off the beginning of Spring here now and we are grafting all sorts of trees at present. If any one is interested in Pecan propagation I feel we have perfected container propagaton of grafted trees. We can grow an excellant grafted tree from seed germination to grafted tree ready to plant out within 18mths. HereÕs a question for someone. Can Canistel or Yellow Sapote be grafted onto Pouteria obovata successfully? Regards to all Rare fruit lovers Greg Daley gdaley@nrg.com.au ---------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 07:15:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Subject: Rare Fruit: Castor Beans Hi Leo Well castor beans aren't rare and most people wouldn't think of them as fruit, but I think people on this list can help. I lost our nice tall red-leaved strain when we moved and so bought some more seed. They turn out to be a stunted ugly shade of green plant that has not yet reached halfway to my knees. I use castor beans as quick shade a lot. Would anyone have seed of a nice tall variety? I'll work out a trade or just pay for the seed. Dan Hemenway -------------------------------- From: Clarence Hester Subject: Whatever happened to Richardson's? On the subject of bananas, does anyone know what has happened to Richardson's Seaside Banana Nursery in La Conchita, California? I have posted on rec.gardens and other lists, and have even gotten some responses back from Ventura, CA area gardeners. Still, no one has the answer. A synopsis of what I've heard (and partially confirmed) is that their phone number is **definitley** disconnected, and has been for several months. On the other hand, people say they've driven by there and they are still open for business as recently as 3 weeks ago. Why does it matter? For one thing, I found Richardson's to be the best source for some of the harder-to-find bananas. Also, the corms they shipped were huge and very healthy, although considerably more expensive than Going Bananas in Homestead, FL. Richardson's always had the Ae Ae, Ele Ele and others in stock and you didn't have to wait for months on end. Also, while I've heard from several sources that some types of bananas in South Florida (e.g., Apple, Ice Cream) had come down with some type of Panama disease, I didn't hear the same about the CA bananas. (BTW, the Panama disease thing about Florida must have some truth to it. For example, "Robert is Here" tropical fruit in Florida City no longer grows their own Apple Bananas because of the virus problem). [BTW--don't misinterpret that I don't support Going Bananas or other Florida nurseries, because they are great in their own respect and much more reasonably priced. My only issue is that you have to look around sometimes for the harder to find varieties] If anyone knows the dirt on Richardson's, please let the list know. I plan to write them to see if they still respond that way. Don't bother calling the phone number that you can find on the net; it is definitely disconnected and there is no new listing. Clarence Hester -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:51:44 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Darryl Clark Subject: Find a source for Musa basjoo? Darryl, if you find a source for Musa basjoo that is reasonable, I'd like to know about it. Also, how edible is that one? With an alternate name of Japanese fiber banana, it makes me wonder.... Leo ------ Leo, I have to agree Fiber Banana is not the most appetizing description. The most info I've seen was in the Oregon Exotics catalog (503) 846-7578. I haven't seen it reasonable anywhere. My goal is to find someone who is willing to trade a pup. The taste has been described to me as "good but seedy". I would love to learn more/ acquire one of these so if you hear anything more about it please let me know. I will of course do the same! Take Care, Darryl Clark ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 15:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Musa basjoo - banana Leo, My information sources tell me: "M. basjoo is a native of the Ryuku Islands, just south of Japan. It grows about 10 ft. tall and, like M. ensete, is somewhat more resistant to cold than most other kinds of bananas." This doesn't sound close to the cold hardiness given by Stokes. Another source of M. basjoo is Lousiana Nursery, Rt. 7, Box 43, Highway 182, Opelousas, LA 70570. Don Gholston ----------------------------- Hello Leo: Have you found your Basjoo yet? I have read a little more about taste and it sounds good, it does have seeds though. I'm wondering if you have seen any information on it's genetic parenthood? That would be quite interesting. Take care. Anxiously awaiting your next newletter! Darryl ------------ No, Darryl, but I've not actively searched much for it. I thought it would be something for relatives in Kansas and Oklahoma to try, but I seriously doubt that it's as cold tolerant as I first heard. However, if a reasonably priced one shows up, I'll take a chance on it. Leo -------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Musa basjoo Hi Leo, From the description of this banana I would say that it's for fiber and ornamental reasons one would grow it, not for the fruit. This is reinforced when I looked it up in Cornucopia by Steve Facciola. He will list every obscure culinary use of a plant and all he says about this banana is that the nectar is drinkable. Period. From that I sure wouldn't grow it for the fruit. Now, after all that, if still want to seek it out, Steve lists two sources of M. basjoo in his book: 1) Copacabana Gardens (415) 254-2302, PO Box 232, Moraga, CA 94556 2) Louisiana Nursery (318) 948-3696, Route 7, Box 43, Opelousas, LA 70570 Both places have catalogs for a couple of bucks. Happy hunting! Later, Bob ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:00:00 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda To: moshe@coqui.net Subject: Re: Longans in Thai land to summarize about what I have already written in bits and pieces in other e-mails. longans is probably native to southern china and india. somehow thailand appears to be the biggest producer of longans. it is our number one fresh fruit export. in the past year, we have started a dried longan industry for export. the majority of longans are for consumption by chinese. the caucasians deem longans too sweet. most of our export goes to hong kong, and from there to china. I understand that dried longan is part of the ingredients of a chinese concoction to stimulate sexual prowess. longan technology is pretty undeveloped in thailand for various reasons which I shall not go into. however, recently, the authority have woken up to the fact that it is our number export, and there will be plenty of competitors, from vietnam, china, indonesia, taiwan and maybe australia. so they are beginning to set up funds for longan research. however, government is very inefficient. if we wait for them, we may never get anywhere. so I intend to complement their work. I am considering setting up a national longan growers association, and work with the government. at the moment, I doubt we know how many species there are around the world. as to the cultivation of longan, I find that experience and knowledge of the long-time small uneducated growers are more reliable than books written by so-called experts who probably have not visited a longan orchard! I am not saying that technical knowledge are no good. I have great faith in technology. I am saying that we have not done adequate proper research into longans. the agronomists here know much more about mangoes, and, to a lesser extent litchi, and I think they are extrapolating their finding to cover longans without adequate field works. so your thoughts and inputs will be very welcome. any info you have whatsoever on longans will also be very welcome. Sainarong Rasananda ------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:16:24 +0800 Hi there, My name is John Sojka and I am very interested in your news group .I would like to know if I could join in, though I do not know what to do. I live in Albany Western Australia.We have a temperate climate and rarely get a frost or extremely hot summer days.(however there are exceptions we had 4 days of minus 1 oC which set me back a bit) I am a christian Pastor, and growing wierd as well as normal fruit trees is a hobby I have got into in the last couple of years. As well as fishing it is a nice escape to keep life balanced. I only have a 730 square meter block and I have just about filled up my yard with fruit trees and a hothouse that is very full. Here is what I grow some of which is only small and is in my hothouse at present:Cherry (stella),White Sapote (definately my favourite fruit though mine are not yet bearing) Apples, Fuyu Persimmons, Fejioa, Cherry Guava, Inga (ice cream bean), Apricot, Nectarine, Tree tomatos (yellow & purple), Grumichamas, Abius, Custard Apples, Whampi, Various Paw Paws, Currants, Babacos, Banana and normal passion fruit. There are many other varieties I have too many to name Oh also The Black Persimmon. one of my joys is to look for rare fruit in the shops, save the seeds and grow them.I am not sure what will come of them but one day I may find someone who can send me cuttings to graft. My poor wife is very patient with me as her laundry is full of my prize seedlings over winter.My miracle fruit tree (which is now fruiting) often gets in her way. If anyone has access to the following seeds I would like to hear from you if you can send me a small quantity. I am after the CASANA a relative of the Tree tomato.I also wish to get seed of the LUCMO, ASIMINA TRILOBA .I am happy to cover postage and costs.. So thats my story,I am always on the lookout for new fruit and contacts. I look forward to keeping in touch with you and your news group. Kind regards and best wishes from downunder, John Sojka --------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: "'wmonroe@mailb.harris.com'" Subject: bananas Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:09:42 -0700 Hi Bill, You are looking for a source of bananas. If you haven't visited "Going Bananas" in Homestead, then I suggest a trip to check them out. They have a good selection of varieties and usually have some fruit on hand that you can taste and compare. Their address is: 24401 S.W. 197 Avenue Homestead, Fl 33031-1174 (305) 247-0397 The owners are Don and Katie Chafin who are very friendly and willing to give a tour of the grove and answer any questions, as well as offer fruit to taste. They are also growing lychee and longans, which may be of some interest. Their place is just down the street and around the corner from The Redlands Fruit and Spice Park, so you can get two stops in one trip! Take care. Best wishes, Bob Holzinger ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:19:34 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Subject: What to do with my Inga? John Sojka wrote: I am also interested in finding out what to do with my Inga---Ice cream Bean as I have no information on it. Leo replied: I have an Inga, and it makes a very large spreading tree with large 12 inch one-inch diameter beans. The tree grows rapidly and makes a good shade tree, and fixes nitrogen, I believe, so it has value IF you have room for it. It makes a great climbing tree for the child in each of us. The beans are a curiosity, favored by youngsters for a while, but not of much value to my knowledge. The pulp around the seeds is sweet, but has no other flavor, and must be harvested soon after reaching maturity, as the seeds begin to sprout on the tree in the pods, ruining the pulp for later consumption. The beans fall around, making additional cleanup necessary. However, I like the tree in my yard where it is planted, but there isn't another place in my yard were I would even consider planting it, now that I see how large it gets. Leo ------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Subject: Looking for CASANA, LUCMO, and seeds of Asimina Triloba, etc. Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:10:46 +0800 Dear Leo, I wonder if you could Email me your previous newsletters? I found the one you sent me very interesting. I found another Australian Barry White, can you let me know the Email address of the other Australian or pass on mine to them. As I mentioned in my last Email can you include my details in the next newsletter including my request for seeds. I am interested in many types but especially the CASANA, LUCMO, and seeds of a good quality low chill Asimina Triloba.I am also interested in finding out what to do with my Inga---Ice cream Bean as I have no information on it. I may take some time replying to some Emails as I will be on holidays from 29th August to 14th of September but I am very keen to keep in touch.I leave a website link in case you are interested in seeing where I live in Australia. My best wishes to you and your wife and family.(and dog Jocko ). See---------- http://worf.albanyis.com.au/aol/welcome.html Regards John Sojka ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:32:16 -0400 From: Bob and Robinn Eck Hello tropical fruit growers, Somehow clicked my way to your webpage. This web stuff is so cooool.. Since newsgroups on 'rare fruit' are even rarer, my wife and I would enjoy receiving email on tropical fruit. Here in S FL we grow mango, lychee, mamey, sapodilla, sugar apple, atemoya, ilama, jackfruit and of course, citrus on a typical city lot. Small area but productive since we try to grow only semi-dwarf varieties and/or prune alot. Jackfruit hold particular interest lately since several dwarf varieties with small fruit (for shipping) are being tried here. Wish cherimoyas fruited reliably here. Have heard that 'Spain' will occassionally produce fruit in S Fl. Might try to make room for that variety. Regards, Bob and Robinn Eck near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida -------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:27:50 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (Bill Monroe) Subject: Carambola (Star Fruit) Greetings All: In my back yard I am growing the Carrie, Shrieken Begin (sic), and the Fuang Tung (sic). I would like to add additional sweet varieties of carambola to my collection. I am asking the readers of this newsgroup to submit their choices for sweet carambola varieties. For example, the Maha and Arkan. In addition, please add a note on sun/shade requirements, watering, and any other information you may think is pertinent to a fellow rare fruit grower. Thanks!! Bill Monroe Zone 9 ------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:39:07 -0400 From: Sven Nehlin Subject: Seeds from Trinidad I am interested in some rare seeds from Trinidad. Have you got any contact there? I can offer you most of the Venezuelan fruits and I am an old member of Rare Fruit Council International, Regards, Sven Nehlin ----------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:55:47 -0400 (EDT) From: FinulaM@aol.com Hi, I would like to receive your letter. I have been growing the rare and unusual with a stress on the useful and beautiful for much of my life. I usually start with seeds and then see what will survive an indoor winter in zone 5. This May a very unseasonable frost killed my theobroma, baobob, cashew, avocado, orchids, passion fruit and a host of other more ordinary things. I am slowly starting again. I have purchased seed from a number of mail houses and I will see what comes up. I would very much like to know what does well overwintering indoors, what are people's favorite fruits, can I get some ripe fruits from which to extract viable seed or perhaps seeds which are already germinating. My two most particular goals are to grow Tea and Cocoa. I have some sonensis that just arrived from the Banana tree. They were already germinating but were culturing mold from the delay in the mail. I treated them with fungicide and planted them and am now waiting to see how they do. I am told that there are three main species of Cocoa with one being the common bland commercial chocolate and the other two being more delicate and much more flavorful. I would very much like to be able to try my hand at the propogation of the latter two. I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We tend to have a cold, wet winter; with a number of sub zero days each year. This summer has been unusually cool. We usually have several days over 100 and many weeks in the 90's with high humidity. This year has been so cool and often wet that we don't even have any ripe tomatoes in our garden yet! That is at least three weeks behind the usual. Pittsburgh is home to the Phipps Conservatory, which was where I got my successful cocoa beans. One of the staff was kind enough to give me a pod from their specimen tree. We probably have about another month where sunlight will be hot enough at times to germinate tropicals. Our weather at the moment in running about 30 degrees cooler than usual at the moment. I have bought several grow bulbs to help encourage things through the winter. I also use the steam radiators to provide strong bottom heat. Any advice or leads are most welcome Finula McCaul ------------------------------------------------------- From: Sal Schettino Subject: All-Spice Flower/No Fruit; Quadrangularis- Not Tasty I had my all spice flower this year but no fruit no berries... Is it because I need a male and a female ? I have had quadrangularis fruit here in Carpinteria for over 8 years and was wanting to know how do you eat it? It does not seem to tasty out of hand when ripe and I was thinking maybe you cook it or dry it or eat it green or something. I do enjoy the flower,. I am a member of CRFG. I grow mangoes, sotote, lechie, macadaimia nuts , Cherimoya,ect. Thanks Sal Schettino Carpinteria, Ca. ------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 07:04:23 +0800 From: adrian colley Hi Leo, love your photo at the intro - beautiful. We're on the bottom edge of the world in Bunbury Western Australia (next stop Antarctica) but we're blessed with a good climate. There's a couple of us down here who grow rare fruits On my place I have feijoa, guava, kei apple, grapes, olives, grumichamas, macadamia, cattley guava, apples, papaya, 2 citrus, pasion fruit, cherimoya, white sapote, white shartoot, and probably something else I can't recall right now - yes, just put in an acerola. I hope next year to start experimenting with our own native Santalum species; sandalwood and quandong. I've just come back from the arid lands and been impressed by the nuts and fruit of both. Keep up the good work Adrian ----------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:04:57 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Signoff Hello Leo: I just want you to know that your signoff "hordicordially" is way cool! It reminds me of times past when everyone seemed to have time to write at some level, even if it was just grandma letters. I was important to have a more nifty way of saying goodbye to people you liked, than just "sincerely" or "yours truly". I've been tempted to borrow your stroke of linguistic cleverness, but decided that those who knew me would know instantly that I could not have invented it. So, instead I'll just use "Happy Horticulture" for a while to see how it fits. Happy Horticulture! Darryl Clark ------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Moskowitz: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: Giant White Fly - What Works For Control? An epidemic has beset fruit and exotic plant growers in San Diego. The Giant White Fly. They especially love hibiscus. My inquiry is to poll the readership as to what methods have proven successful in eradicating these noxious creatures. Joel Moskowitz ------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:28:30 -0400 (EDT) From: John Fernandez Hi Leo: I'm in Melbourne, Florida east of Orlando. My name is John Fernandez. I'm already gowing many kinds of rare fruit in my yard. Right now I'm getting Atemoyas, lemons, starfruit, and guavas. I have Japnaese persimmons, white sapote, jaboticaba, pineapple, canistel, fejoia, IIIama, sugar apple, soursop, lychee, inga, papaya, malabar chestnut, and longan, including many others. I'm interested in anything new and different from the usual rare fruit. Any info would be appreciated. John >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - September 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 09/15/97 18 The number of readers is about 100 now! It's amazing that there are so many countries represented, and so many states outside of the sub-tropics in the US. Please include your name in any correspondence to me or to Rare Fruit News Online. I like to know to whom I'm responding. Also PLEASE have the SUBJECT be relevant to what you're discussing. It is a courtesy to readers who want to spend the limited time they have available reading what's most interesting to them. I hope you are almost as pleased as I am with the community of readers/growers of Rare Fruit News Online. Thanks! Leo ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 00:04:25 UT From: "Raymond Gerlach" Subject: Musa Basjoo Going Bananas has Basjoo as does Stokes Tropicals. I was on a waiting list for it at Going Bananas and Katie just informed me that it and an Ele Ele are being shipped to me. Unfortunately I still have a while to wait to get my Ae Ae. Until the last two newsletters I thought that I was the only banana nut out there. Anyone want to trade pups? Leo, The newsletter is great reading, thanks for all the effort. Ray -------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: FinulaM@aol.com Subject: Re:musa basjoo source Hi, Stokes tropicals has musa bajoo and a number of other lovelies very much on sale right now. With the additional online discount, I just ordered 10 corms and plantelets from them for about 100$. Still looking for cocoa! Finula ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:30:32 -0500 From: Adam Benson Subject: New Subscriber from Texas I have three papayas, a tangerine, and 5 huge banana patches. I have not gotten any fruit from my banana trees yet, some of them are over 2 years old. I like 30 miles south east of San Antonio, Texas is zone 29/28. There are some winters were there are no freezes and some winters like the last two when the temp have dropped to 20 degrees, but only for like one night. In downtown San antonio on the river walk they have 10,000+ banana trees! Some of these are real old, they were planted 30 to 40 years ago, and they fruit every year. The river walk also has some papaya, and citrus (grapefruit, orange and tangerine), plus thousands of other tropical and sub-tropicals plants. There river walk is in a micro climate and stays about 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the area. Supposely there is a coconut palms growning somewhere on the river walk, but i can't find it. There is a hong kong orchid tree that is about 25 years old and that is about 30 feet tall. At the botanical garden they have huge papaya trees, that have lot of fruit. There was a papaya tree on Fort Sam army base that was bigger than a house, but it died a couple of years ago in a 20 degree freeze. Most people do not know this but there are many citrus plants in San Antonio, mostly tangerines. Some are huge trees, and a few ruby red grapfruits brought up from the lower rio grande valley also grow here in protected spots. San Antonio is in 4 climate zones, 28, 29, 30 and 31 and border lines zone 9a and zone 8b Adam -------------------------------------- From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: Tropical Fruit To: John Hello, I also live in Melbourne (actually Palm Bay). I am a member of the Brevard/Indian River Rare Fruit Council. Maybe we've met?? Anyway, if you would like to get together for trade and information please feel free to contact me at: wmonroe@harris.com 14077274191 (work) For a source of bananas you can contact my friend John Rodgers at 725-1923. John lives in Melbourne and has over 35 different varieties of bananas growing on his three acres of land. John sells at $7.50 per plant. In addition, John has fruiting cherimoyas, atemoyas, ingas', mangos, and avacados among his extensive collection. John does not have on-line access, but it is okay to contact via telephone. Regards, Bill Monroe ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:37:19 -0400 From: CJackson@mailb.harris.com (CJackson) Subject: Please add me to your list Hi, I am a friend of Bill Monroe's and he passed along the info about your list. I live in Central Florida on the east coast near the ocean. I am currently growing: Carambola, Sugar Apple, Longan, Lychee, Avocado, Guava, Macadamia, Fried Egg Tree, Strawberry Fruit tree, Monstera, Barbados Cherry, Grumichama Cherry, White and Black Sapote, Bombax Glabra, Sapodilla, Chiemito, Inge, Miracle Fruit and various bananas. I have been doing this for about 3 years now and my efforts are just starting to pay off with fruit. Look forward to future correspondence, Chuck Jackson Grant, Florida Zone 9 ------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:27:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Pluots and dinosaurs A while back there were many messages on pluots. Some (including one by me) noted that some of the pluots were being marketed as "Dinosaur Balls" or "Dinosaur Eggs." I have since been informed that the Dinosaur Ball is the name that was originally proposed for Flavor Queen and that Dinosaur Egg is Dapple Dandy. The "Dinosaur" names were suggested because the fruits were devloped around the time of the Jurassic Park movie, but I think the story is that Dave Wilson objected, and registered them under the Flavor Queen and Dapple Dandy names. Apparently the commercial growers have revivied the dinosaur names. I had described Dinosaur Egg as pinkish. Some descriptions of Dapple Dandy that I have read describe the fruit as white-fleshed and others describe it as red-fleshed. I perceived it as pink, which I guess means I'm just splitting the difference! Matthew Shugart ---------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Banana and mango ripening Greetings. I have fruit for the first time on an 'Ice Cream' banana that I planted about a year and a half ago. I also have fruit on a 'Valencia Pride' mango that has been in the ground since spring, 1995, but never before held its fruit past a very immature stage. I am not sure what to expect in terms of how long till it ripens or even how to identify when it is ripe. So, I am looking for advice. The banana started forming its fruit in early July, I think. They are now well formed, but still bluish-green. Does this variety turn yellow as it ripens? Or what? The mango tree, which is about 6 feet tall, has six or so fruits on it that are the size of fairly large avocados. They are still mostly green, but some are starting to develop a reddish blush at the stem end. How do I determine when they are ripe? I know not all mango varieties are the same color at maturity. Anyone out there with experience with this particular variety? My location is Carlsbad, CA, about 1.5 miles from the ocean. So the biggest issue would seem to be getting enough heat. The bananas are against a southeast-facing wall. The mango is just in an open spot in the backyard, but definitely full sun and I put some white rocks on the south side to try to reflect some heat. My location is hot for a coastal area, but it is still coastal. Any special care in terms of watering or fertlizing (or not) that I should follow between now and what I hope will be a successful harvest? I have not fed either since early July, but have continued the same irrigation as before the fruit formed. Thanks for any help anyone might be able to give! Good growing. Matthew Shugart ------ NOTE: Matt, Steve White bought Paul Thomson's Edgehill property, with the mangos there. Steve claims that if he could only grow one mango, it would be Valencia Pride. My obversations is that it seems to bloom over a very long interval, so that one probably could have two trees, and have one bear early and the other late, by removing the young mangos on the one you want to bear late. I'd let the fruit change color and begin to feel just a little soft, before picking any, or possibly let the first one ripen on the tree, before picking any, and then pick others to ripen off the tree, if you like. Leo ---------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:27:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Mystery fruit While traveling in the Czech Republic, I encountered a fruit that was unfamilair to me. I wonder if anyone can identify it by my description. It was round, about the size of a cherry (or a bit larger), bright orange in color, had a husk like a tomatillo or gooseberry, and was sweet. It was presented as a topping on an ice cream dessert. The husk would lead me to believe it was related to tomatillo or gooseberry, but it definitley was not like any variety of those fruits that I've ever had. Matthew Shugart ------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:04:15 -0400 From: WALT ROWE Subject: star fruit from seed Leo, Darryl Clark asked for information on growing star fruit from seed. Please inform him that it is a viable option. I have personally fruited Fuang Tung and Kari seedlings. Both came true from seed. In fact I have one Kari seedling that fruited for the first time this year. Not only was the taste identical to the parent tree (that was a grafted Kari), but to date the fruit has been seedless and fiberless. There are still about 24 pieces of nearly ripe fruit on the tree so the jury is still out as to whether they are all seedless but I'm hoping! The Fuang Tung also tasted identical to the parent plants. It takes 30-45 days for the seeds to germinate and mine fruited at 2 years of age. I have 18 seedlings at the present time ranging in age from 1 to 3 years. I also have my grafted collection. Happy Planting Walt Rowe ----------------------------- To: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: Giant White Fly From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:04:23 EDT I had a small outbreak on ~ 4-5 citrus trees @ my home. I sprayed them with Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Castille Soap diluted to ~ 20%. I applied it with a pump style hand (1 gallon) sprayer and did not wash it off. This was a few months ago & if it doesn't work, please do not tell the white flys as they have not yet returned. Bill --------------------------- NOTE: Bill, I sprayed some pepper plants that were infested with the Giant White Fly with Neem oil extract. It knocked them down BUT the effects were short lived. The bugs are back in full force within a few days of spraying. Leo --------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Re: Giant White Fly I found a product called Jungle Rain to be very effective. I think it contains basically the same soap, plus a citrus oil. Sunshine Gardens sells it. It is fairly expensive. If Dr. Bronner's works just as well, maybe I'll go with that next time instead. Matthew Shugart --------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:37:03 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Re: [Fwd: star fruit from seed] Hello Leo: Thank you and Walt for the star fruit info. I appreciate the encouragement from Walt. It difficult not knowing how long is reasonable to wait for something to happen that may never happen. I've planted one seed so far. If anyone has a few seeds they want to share I'd be much obliged. The local markets (Charlotte NC) rarely have such interesting produce for sale. Anyone else from this locale out there? Know of any good tropical fruit stands? Also, regarding the neem article. I posted the medicinal part of your article to a medicinal herbs list that I subscribe to. No one has expressed interest so far. The list seems to be very sensitive to the wild caims that a abundant in the health food and herb industries. I thought I'd get a quick confirmation or rebuttal. So far no interest. I guess neem isn't the "third rail" topic I thought it would be. Take Care. DC ------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:37:53 -0400 From: Martin Tanner Subject: Pests and Indoor Gardening Hi, I was wondering if you could help me or direct me to someone who can. I live in Chicago and I am trying to grow several citron trees. The trees are in large pots and are currently about 4-6 ft high. Last winter the trees were in my living room where they developed a terrible infestation of (what I believe to be ) mites. There was substantial webbing under the leaves and a webbing on the leaves toward the top of the tree and where there was new leaf growth. I brought the trees outside this spring and that problem seems to have vanished. Can I expect the mites to return this winter? How do I protest the trees? Should I spray them before I bring them in (probably in late October)? Another question deals with bearing fruit. The trees do blossom but only a very small percentage of the blossoms (1-3%) turn into fruit. The ones that do turn into (tiny) fruit eventually fall off. The trees are actually quite lush now and are in blossom- but the blossums are fruitless. I can see lots of filaments with pollen- but no stigma. The trees are about 4 years old. How can I get them to be more fruit bearing and to retain their fruit? I thank you in advance, Martin Tanner ------------------------- Picked Up Off The 'Net FYI for indoor lights for plants. Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:32:53 +0000 Subject: Lighting: Indoor Gardening List Gotta go with metal halide, here is something that was posted on the indoor gardening list that will better explain the lighting choices than I can: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Basic unit for the total amount of light = lumen light intensity (this is what really counts) is expressed in lumens / area the common expression of light intensity is the foot candle which = 1 lumen per square foot direct summer sunlight = about 10,000 foot candles direct winter sunlight can drop to about 7,000 foot candles the closer you can get these light intensities the better next chapter: light output..... incandesant lights generate about 4 lumens per watt, so a 100 wat bulb generates 400 lumens total. if you could concentrate all of this bulbs light energy so that is falls on 1 square foot, the light intensity would be 400 foot candles. realistically you could probably only obtain about 60% of this, so 240 foot candles. if you spread this to a 2x2 area... 400 lumens / 4 = 100 foot candles quartz halogens do only slightly better at around 10 lumens per watt 1000 watt * 10 lumens = 10000 lumens, assuming 40% loss = 600 lumens / 1 sq ft. = 600 foot candles if you spread this to a 2 x2 area, 600 lumens / 4 sq. ft = 150 foot candles under this you could grow low light plants assuming you can deal with the heat mercury vapor = about 30 lumens per watt 100 watt mercury vapors are pretty rare common houshold yard lights are 70 watt 70 watt * 30 = 2100 lumens, the reflectors are a bit better in these fistures, so lets assume 75% effeciency 2100 * .75 = 1575 lumens spread this over a 2 x 2 grow area = 1575/4 sq ft = 393 foot candles with this we can still grow only very low light plants full size flourescent = about 75 lumens per watt since the fixtures are 4 ft long lets assume our grow area is 4' x 4' and we use enough fixtures to fill in the earea shoulder to shoulder, this = about 8 fixtures with 2 40watt tubes in each. this gives us 16 tubes * 40 watts = 640 watts total. 640 watts * 75 lumens = 48000 total lumens. lets assume 75% effeciency.... 48000 * .75 = 36000 lumens over a 4' x 4' grow area (this would assume that we have the fixtures right down on top of the plants 36000 lumens / 16 sq ft = 2250 foot candles (remember daylight is 10,000 fc) we are only at 22% of daylight! with this you can grow leafy vegtables, lettuce, spinache etc african violets kick butt unter this... metal halide (now we're talkin') 125 lumens per watt I always use 1000 watt fixtures, 400 watt ones are ok, but why waste your money when the 1000 watt fixture is only 40 dollars more 1000 watts * 125 = 125000 lumens assume 75% eff again 125000 * .75 = 93750 lumens cover a 4' x 4' grow area.... 93750 / 16 sq ft = 5859 foot candles. now we have a little better than 50% of daylight to work with. So if you are serious about indoor hydro, you have to be serious about lighting and lay down the bucks for the metal halide fixture. In the long run they are cheaper too , because they are more energy effecient and the bulbs last a lot longer. I have found Hydrofarm lights to be the chapest way to go. They are acturally cheaper than trying to get commercial warehouse fixtures too, (been there, done that). Cary Chleborad Sacramento Valley Astronomical Society ------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:32:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: ? Looking for ideas of a ground cover which would hold a 35 degree slope and yet not be invasive to the extent that it would surround fruit trees and smother them. Best would be a ground cover that also produced edible fruit or vegetable. Thanks, Joel Moskowitz ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:45:12 -0700 From: Victor Biver Subject: papaya Hello, I'm Vic in Miami. While perhaps not a rare fruit, perhaps someone could tell me the technique of protecting growing papayas from insects. Is there some method of wrapping them in plastic (?). Many thanks. Also, I have some seeds that I can no longer identify. Anyone willing to look at them? Victor ------------------------- From: "Bruce & Marcia Ross-Adams" Subject: Subject of Rare Fruit Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:55:05 +0800 Hi, Leo & others, I live in Perth, Western Australia, about 3 kms from the beach. I am originally from South Africa, so have taken to growing Fruit trees that I grew up with, even though most of the soil here is limestone! I am very keen to join your group and talk about what works and what doesn't. I don't have a big garden, but I do have the following in the ground: Lychee - seems to be slow growing and struggles with the salty wind Avocado - three varieties that are beginning to take off Feijoa - doing okay but the fruit have not been very big Guava (my favorites) - Cherry guava (although we used to call it 'chinese guava' in Africa) it's growing quite well - Indian Pink which is great tasting guava, very similar to the taste of tinned guavas (ex Africa) - White Guava (white flesh that is) not sure what variety Mango - Kensington Pride, early stages PawPaw (or papaya)- Pink insides - had two but one didn't survivethe last salty winter. I am not sure whether I can hand pollinate these things Orange valencia, but grown from pip Grenadilla (or passionfruit) Two varieties Cherry (wild, or Brazilian as a friend calls it) I grew up eating these as a kid. They go a blood red almost black when fully ripe and have ridges on them. Plant is still small but I can wait. Natal Plum or "amatingulu" (which is the Zulu word for it). Very thorny, tough and make great hedges - nothing will go through it! Fruit is tart with white sap, goes dark red when fully ripe. Ilove them, but definitely an acquired taste. Murtle Berry, or Lilly Pilly as they call them down here, grows very quickly "Deadly Night Shade" or what I call a "ma'sobe'sobe bush" It is supposedly a 'weed' down here that also grew in Africa which has small black berries which a very nice, and no they have not killed me yet! Cape Gooseberry - which does grow like a weed but the fruit are terrific, and if I can stop myself from eating them all, they would probably make great jam. Anyway that's a bit of an overview, and I look forward to hearing more from you. Cheers Bruce & Marcia --------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:05:49 +1000 From: John Lambert Dear Leo, Thanks for the email. Yes I would be happy to be included on the mailing list for your newsletter. I live near Byron Bay - the most easterly point of Australia. According to Jose it is a very similar climate to southern California - except 6 months shifted. I do have a question that you or your readers may be able to help with :- I have an Elephant Apple Tree - Dillenia indica - (also known as Simpoh or Wormia) with heaps of large green fruit - but no idea with what to do with them? The sepals are large and fleshy and rather sour - I have heard that they are used in India to flavour curries? Regards, John Lambert Australia ----- Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Elephant Apple Tree - Dillenia indica-Fruit Use? John, Your question on Elephant Apples was forwarded to me by Leo Manuel to answer. The fruits are described as aromatic, juicy, acid and are usually used in curries, preserves, drinks or fermented into vinegar. The fleshy calyx has an agraeeable acid taste and is eaten raw or cooked, put in curries or made into jellies, drinks and sherbets. I hope some of this helps. Don Gholston ----------------------------- Reply-To: sainaron@samart.co.th To: Leo Manuel Subject: Request for previous editions of Rare Fruit News Online Can you send me previous editions of RFNO? I have been asked by the editor of one of the most popular horticulture magazine in Thailand to write articles on the benefits of the Internet for the local orchard growers. I have decided to write about the RFNO and the CRFG, amongst other things. I am hoping that the articles may stimulate people into creating similar organizations and discussion groups for the Thai orchard cultivators. My wish may be just that, wishful thinking, as electricity and telephone lines have not yet reached all farmers, let alone computers, Internet, and the knowledge to use them. Nevertheless, I think it is important to get people thinking. I am also asking your permission to use letters posted in your RFNOs in my articles. I assure you that they will used to the benefits of the orchard growers of Thailand. If anyone has any ideas on this, I would greatly appreciate it. sainaron ---------------------------- Subject: New Reader from Ecuador From: "Rita A. Padilla" Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:31:36 -0500 Hi, my name is Rita Padilla and I live in Ecuador. My boy friend (Manuel Ruiz) owns an hacienda in the central part of the country and we are interested in growing kiwi in greenhouses since the weather where the hacienda is located might be a little to cold to grow this plant without the protection of the greenhouses. We are just getting interested in this project and have very little information on how to go about it, we will appreciate whatever information you can provide. Thanks, Rita -------------- NOTE: I've misplaced the response Don Gholston gave to Rita, but he suggested that Kiwi is probably not a good candidate for greenhouse growing, that it could be tested outside the greenhouse. Sorry, Don, if I've mangled your recommendations. Leo -------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 8:16:18 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Rarefruit News letter Hello, I recently enjoyed your web page and I am interested in your electronic news letter. In my Point Loma (San Diego) back yard I grow several varieties of banana, tropical guava, several varieties of papaya including babaco, cherimoya, mango, feijoa, jaboticaba, pepino dulce, and kiwi. I also enjoy many of the more common edible plants grown in S. Cal such as: several varieties of oranges, kumquat, tangerine, lemons, lime, apples, apricot, plum, grapes, figs, avocado, and blueberry. I look forward to receiving your news letter. Geoff Buckner -------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 13:37:53 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: re: Welcome, Rare Fruit News Online Leo, Thank you for the welcome to the RFNO. The following paragraphs are some answers to your questions. I am currently growing a Carrie mango in the ground. No fruit yet on this specimen because it is still young. I have had fruiting success, in the past, with the Carrie cultivar (as a container plant) near the coast. Thank you for your coastal mango suggestions. I have been toying with giving Early Gold a try. I am currently growing Sharpblue and Georgia Gem Blueberries in the ground. Due to the acidity issue, I started them out in pots but transferred them to the ground because of the high maintenance necessary with container gardening. I mulch them with peat and pine needles and occasionally throw out a handful of ironite. The Sharpblue is especially vigorous and productive. Due to the sandy (well drained) nature of the Linda Vista Formation which is exposed on Point Loma, I have been successful with growing tasty Dwf. Thai, Solo, and Babaco Papaya without a winter rot problem. With diligent hand pollination, the cherimoya is very productive and very enjoyable. Passaflora is on my to get list. Do you have a recommendation for a good eat-out-of-hand cultivar that will excel near the coast? Regards, Geoff ------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passiflora for coast Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:18:19 -0700 Hi Leo, Regarding the letter you got from Geoff Buckner, I would also recommend P. 'Frederick' for the coast if it can be planted with a south exposure. Otherwise the fruit won't color up or sweeten up like they should. If nematodes are not a problem, which they can be in sandy soil near the coast, then I would also try P. ligularis. This species will need a cross pollinator, so I would plant two plants from different sources. These would be the best choices for fruit on the coast at this time. Patrick Worley is developing another cool grower that he says has a good taste, but it won't be released for a while yet. Take care, Bob ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 8:23:09 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" I received the last issue of RFNO and enjoyed the running dialog. I would say the Sharpblue flavor also is blueberry-like with nice tart/sweet balance. I keep it pruned to approximately 3 ft. I will let you know if I find an Early Gold. Geoff -------------------------------- Subject: New Reader from India & Passion Fruit Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:20:52 +0530 From: Avinash Joshi Dear Sir, I have passion for passion fruits and since last 3 years I have worked on Passiflora Edulisa, yellow variety. I have succeeded for 2 years to have nearly 200 fruits per vine and in a short span of 5000 sq ft, I had 35,000 fruits. I came across CRFG and is member since last 6 months. I have interest in varieties of Passion fruit, Grape fruit, Kiwi, Persimon. Avinash Joshi ----------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passion fruit Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:57:14 -0700 Hello Avinash, Leo Manuel forwarded to me your email expressing an interest in passion fruit. Probably the best source of new species and varieties is the Passiflora Society International. They are headquartered in Florida and have a foreign seed bank co-ordinator in The Netherlands. You have to be a member in order to take advantage of the seedbank, so you should contact the membership chairman: Anna Zinno Passiflora Society Int. c/o Butterfly World at Tradewinds Park 3600 W. Sample Road Coconut Creek, FL 33073 U.S.A. The seed bank manager is Cor Laurens and his address is: 4471 BJ Wolphaarstdijk Netherlands Telephone: (31) 113-582052 Good luck in your search, it sound like you have a good place to grow passifloras, considering the yields you got with the P. edulis f. flavocarpa. Best wishes, Bob Holzinger ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:34:53 +0530 From: Avinash Joshi Dear Bob I appreciate the information. I will write them today itself. My yields are higher , but I want to confirm it by planting more vines and taking their average. I hope to do so by next year. I would plant about 2000 vines propogated from seeds and plant it in my friends farm. My farm has water scarecities and more vines are not feasible. In fact I have planned only one crop during monsoon when water is plenty. My friend's farm which is about 600 kms from my place has perennial supply of water. Any comments from others regarding more crops. Avinash JoshiHolzinger ------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:58:38 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Stumbled on some banana stuff The following info on Basjoo echos what I have heard elswhere: tastes good, annoying seeds. I thought the other varieties mentioned sound interesting as well. Darryl C "... similar to the apple banana but with seeds ... 3 inches long by 1 inch wide, 12-24 bananas to a hand and 4 to 5 hands per stalk. ... Flowers and fruit come in the 3rd or 4th year [in Vancover, BC]." -Mattei "... fruit to 2 3/4 inches long, 3/4 - 1 1/8 inches wide, greenish-yellow with white pulp. Ryukyu Islands. Cultivated for fiber and in southern Japan as a prized ornamental. ... Perhaps the hardiest of the species. Zone 9, and perhaps in sheltered sites in Zone 8." -Hortus 3rd Some other interesting bananas listed in Cornucopia: Oriana: Red-skinned fruit, 5 inches long; very sweet white flesh, seeded. Only grows 2 1/2 to 5 feet tall. Discovered growing in a very dense jungle under low light conditions. Ideal for indoor culture. E31M Ty Ty Gold: Found growing at an old southern plantation house fifty years ago. Produces fruit about every other year. Tasty, yellow fruit; ripens around Thanksgiving. M31M, M31M{PR} Orinoco Victoria: Very cold-hardy; easily survived the winter of 1983 in the southern United States. Produces medium-sized bunches of large thick-skinned fruit of good flavor. Can be eaten fresh or cooked. The trunk is thick and strong; reaching 14 to 16 feet. Rapid growing. E31M Rajapuri: A vigorous dessert cultivar from India which withstands wind, cold, and adverse conditions. Produces small to medium bunches of sweet, fine flavored fruit. Mature height 8 to 10 feet. One of the favorite bananas of India. A79M, E31M, G77M, I83M, J81G, N84. Sources: E31M is Garden World in Laredo, TX, (512) 724-3951. Unfortunately I don't think they sell bananas anymore [Cornucopia is going out of date.]. Another source was Banana Tree and I don't think they are selling bananas either. Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista, CA, (619) 422-2400 has some. M31M is Ty Ty South Orchards in Ty Ty, GA, (912) 386-1919. A note on Southeast US versus Pacific Northwest US: The climates are very different and a banana good in one is unlikely to be good in the other. The SE US is tropical with occasional blasts of cold Canadian air in winter. The Pacific Northwest has a mild climate year round, but almost always cool, some years there are no summers. This climate also extends into some regions of California. Bananas (with the exception of Musa basjoo) don't like cool (<50oF) and tend to rot under such conditions whereas they will tolerate some hot and some cold or some wet and some dry (going dormant during unfavorable conditions). And of course they grow quite well in California from SF on down and in Florida and Hawai'i, Puerto Rico, etc. The only commercial US banana farm in the 48 states is in Santa Barbara, CA. But they can be grown well to the north, like cannas, digging the corms for the winter (they can't tolerate ground freezing). --------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: Anyone try growing blueberries without acid soil? This internet letter says acidity isn't the primary problem. I'd like your reaction. Leo Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:16:48 +0000 Subject: blueberries w/o acid soil? What blueberries really need is mycorrhizae. You can now get these beneficial fungi from Don Chapman, 1-800-604-0444 They have shallow roots and depend on these valuable fungi to supply their mineral needs. It isn't that the pH matters, no matter how many people claim this. What is important is that the soil be adequate. These plants may not be able to pick up the minerals they need, so you should provide them with the chelated minerals from seaweed (Maxciop). They need calcium, for the sake of that mineral, and that is nothing to do with pH. Arden Andersen makes a strong point about the need for phosphorus, because the nutrients the root takes in should be attached to phosphate, to be assimilated. B. Rateaver ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 06:00:01 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Picked Up On The Internet Subject: SoilGard-Alternative to Soil Fumigation? http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/mba/jan96/lumsden.htm SoilGardTM R.D. Lumsden, Research Leader, Supervisory Plant Pathologist, J.A. Lewis, Research Soil Scientist, and D.R. Fravel, Research Plant Pathologist, Biocontrol of Plant Diseases Laboratory; and J.C. Locke, Florist and Nursery Crops Research Unit, USDA, ARS, Beltsville, MD 20705. Scientists at the USDA, ARS, Beltsville Agricultural Research Center have responded to the need to identify and develop alternative strategies for soil fumigation, which has been done traditionally with methyl bromide, by directing several research programs to address this critical problem. A total of six permanent scientists (SY's), along with their support personnel, are currently involved in this effort. These SY's represent several disciplines: plant pathology, soil science, microbiology and nematology, providing a range of expertise related to the control of soilborne plant pathogens. Soilborne diseases caused by pathogens such as Pythium and Rhizoctonia are constant problems in the horticultural industry and require the use of chemical fungicides, including methyl bromide. For decades, researchers and growers throughout the world have noted that while some soils tend to encourage soilborne diseases, other soils tend to suppress these same diseases. Years of research have indicated that beneficial soil microorganisms such as Gliocladium virens are responsible for this disease suppression. Yet, until now, problems with formulation inconsistency and application have prevented the commercial application of many biological organisms to control plant pathogens. SoilGardTM is a technological breakthrough and captures the pathogen suppressiveness of the fungus Gliocladium virens GL-21 in a convenient, stable and highly effective form. Developed in collaboration with Grace Biopesticides and the Biocontrol of Plant Diseases Laboratory of USDA, ARS in Beltsville, Maryland, SoilGardTM is an entirely natural product consisting of spores of the fungal strain GL-21 in a granular formulation. SoilGardTM is registered with the U.S. EPA for control of damping-off and root rot pathogens of ornamental and food crop plants growing in greenhouses, nurseries and interior gardens. The label will be expanded for use in the field. Although SoilGardTM was first found to have activity against damping-off caused by Rhizoctonia solani and Pythium species, it has recently been found to protect row crops from Sclerotium rolfsii and possibly other host-pathogen combinations. When incorporated into potting media, SoilGardTM controls plant pathogens through a variety of mechanisms including parasitism, antibiosis, competition and exclusion. Gliocladium virens is known to parasitize some soil pathogens such as R. solani. The Gliocladium will actually wrap itself around the pathogen and release enzymes that destroy the pathogen's cuticle, leaving the pathogens susceptible to attack. GL-21 also produces a broad spectrum antibiotic called gliotoxin which kills many soil pathogens. Gliotoxin is not found in the SoilGardTM formulations, but when the spores of GL-21 begin to grow in the soil, GL-21 produces the antibiotic. SoilGardTM represents the new generation of environmentally friendly pesticides. SoilGardTM has a "Caution" label, but the product has essentially no mammalian toxicity. It is exempt from tolerance for use on all food crops. SoilGardTM has the minimum re-entry interval allowed by the U.S. EPA and has a "zero day" preharvest interval. The team at Beltsville is carrying out studies to expand the use of SoilGardTM to determine its effectiveness in integrated pest management (IPM) and sustainable systems for replacement of methyl bromide. If successful, this product may be used immediately in applications where methyl bromide has been used routinely for control of soilborne disease problems. The team has identified several additional beneficial microorganisms for control of soilborne plant pathogens. Some of these microorganisms have been recently discovered, while others are near transfer to industry for development as commercial products. ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 05:23:23 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Richard Buchanan Subject: Trilogy Fungicide/insecticice/miticide Richard Buchanan wrote: > > Where can I purchase neem insect repellent? > > Thanks. Richard, I don't know. I know Trilogy is one brand name manufactured by Grace Biopesticides, 7500 Grace Dr. Columbia, MD 21044-4098. A friend gave me about a half-gallon in a 5 gallon container. I expect you can find sources on the internet, but it would be cheaper to find it at a local agricultural supply place. Leo ---------------------------------- From: "Bob Cannon,II" Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:08:59 PDT Leo, I live in Englewood, Florida, USA. I grow a lot of odd things, with special interests in Artocarpus, Passiflora and little known edibles. I also have ferns and peperomias in my collection. Have you been to rare fruit home page at its new location? www.gate.net/~tfnews Best of growing, Bob --------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:45:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Darryl Clark Subject: Banana Virus Danger Trading Banana Trees - Caution! Clarence, I was afraid this would be the answer. Kind of dampens the incentive to trade. Don't want to give it to someone else and certainly don't want to recieve it. Hmmm, maybe good idea to cut out the promiscuous horticulture. DC > Lessard's book has a section on banana viruses. I loaned my copy to a > freind, so I cannot respond except from recollection; however, there are > at least four races of "Panama disease", a virus that attacks bananas. > This is supposed to be the reason that the old variety "Bluefields", > once sold commercially, has now been replaced with other varieties > (Bluefields was/is susceptible to the virus). I also know for sure that > a Panama virus was spreading through South Florida in the recent past, > affecting "Apple" (Manzano) and "Ice Cream" (Blue Java) bananas, but not > some of the others. **Beware** when you obtain corms from unknown > sources. Once the virus is in your yard, you'll have to destroy the > affected banana trees. > > Clarence Hester ----------------------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Bananas Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:08:25 -0700 Hi Leo, I asked Doug about the Oriana banana and he doesn't know that much about it either. It also sounded like he didn't think it was that interesting to check out, either. It could be something for people in northern areas to grow, but as long as I can grow the different varieties that I have outdoors, I'm happy. In fact, my list of bananas with fruit on them right now includes: Monthan, Praying Hands, Colorado Blanco, Haa Haa, Goldfinger, Dwarf Brazilian, Dwarf Colorado Blanco, Red Iholena, and Ice Cream. So you can see why I'm feeling pretty good. I'm currently eating Ice Cream from a bunch I cut down on Monday. Talk to you later, Bob ------------------------------------------------ From: "Bruce & Marcia Ross-Adams" Subject: Clarification of Fruit I Have Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:54:32 +0800 Hi, Thanks, and thanks for the help. The Cherry guava I think is actually called a 'strawberry' guava. The fruit are smaller than the other guavas (a large one is about half the size of other guavas), white flesh, but the skin is very thin and goes blood red when ripe. The foliage is small dark green leaves that have a reddish colour when new. Tree tends to be up to 2 metres high by 1 metre wide. It's tough and quite hardy. I will send a photo of this one and the 'myrtle berry' soon. Regards Bruce Leo said: >