========================================== Rare Fruit News Online - All Year for 1997 ========================================== Winter Damage To Rare Fruit Trees ------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:16:27 -0800 From: Edward Gribble Leo, I haven't touched base with you for a while so just want to say hello. In our "100 tear winds" last week in addition to losing several eucalyptus trees due to the wind and soggy soil, i also lost one of my standard cavendish bananas (blew right out of the ground). The rest survived but their leaves are not so pretty now!! You were sure right about the tall ones taking a beating. The papayas came through ok. We are leaving for New Zealand and Australia jan 27, returning mid-march so will give you a report on my stuff then. Congrats on your website, looks great. Someday want to know how you became a server. Ed ------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:38:07 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Edward Gribble Leo wrote: My Cuban Red (so-called - neither the fruit nor the leaves are red) banana blew over with a bunch of bananas. It broke off, but didn't separate, so maybe it will ripen? Some of my guava trees were stripped of leaves as well as most fruit. Cherimoas also had fruit knocked off prematurely. Some of it ripened, however. I am not a server. I just paid for my own domain, and got a website with the domain name. It isn't necessary to have your own domain, of course, to have a website. I have thought about becoming a server, but I don't think I want more complications in my life. I hope you have a fantastic time in New Zealand and Australia. I haven't been yet, but would like to go. What about email to you in the meantime? Will you have email "delivered" in New Zealand? Tell me what to do about outgoing mail until you return. Looking forward to hearing about your trip. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Daniels" Subject: Re: How did your trees survive winter of '95? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:05:00 -0500 So far, we haven't any freezing weather here in central Fla. However, in '95/'96 we did have a couple of frosts that killed many trees to the ground and totally killed my only mango which was finally going to provide fruit that year. What I have learned is the difference between a frost and a freeze. On the central west coast of Florida (St. Pete/Bradenton) we very rarely get a freeze. However, on our property in Palmetto, we often experience frosts. The difference between the two is that a freeze is a cold blowing wind, but a frost occurs on a clear still night when all the heat radiates into space. Having only frosts actually works out very well as soon as I am prepared for them. You can protect against frosts, but there is nothing that can be done for a freeze. Scott Daniels ------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:54:44 -0500 From: "Raymond N. Gerlach" All of my plants had to be moved inside in early fall because of our Kentucky winters.Anyone have any easy solutions for red spider mites on bananas or a really bad case of mealy bug on a sago palm?I would really hate to pitch the sago but I would really hate for them to start spreading. The weather here stinks.We are awaiting freezing rain followed by 1 to 3 inches of snow.The temp is now 26 and this weekend it's falling to 5 degrees. However,I'm escaping Thursday night to the Florida Keys for a week of diving.I'm sure that I'll have a heart attack when I return. I recently found a web site "eat it com" for fruiting plants and they have a new arrival called an Akebia vine.Any one have any info on this one? Thanks, Ray ----------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:57:50 -0700 (MST) From: Mike Carter My two passion fruit vines are still alive. I covered them a few times when there was a frost warning and have been keeping my fingers crossed. Can't say the same for my fish, they all died last night mysteriously. *Sigh*. Mike Carter ----------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:39:35 -0500 From: Oliver Patterson Subject: How did your trees survive winter of '96? Well, Leo, the coldest it has been so far *this* winter in my area (central Florida) was 30 degrees (or so I heard--I was out of town.) Surprisingly, my papayas and banana had no damage whatsoever. Perhaps I have a warm microclimate. Alternatively, it could be that papayas and bananas are able to tolerate 30 degrees. I don't know, since I have only owned tropical plants for the past 5 months or so. I am very curious to see what happens to my plants during the cold weather. I get conflicting reports about cold-hardiness all the time. A book says one thing and a person says another. I need to find out for myself, I guess. I am also very curious about "root hardiness." In other words, I would like to know which plants will come back and which ones won't. I have read that guava trees are noted for being able to come back after being frozen to the ground. I have a friend whose carambola tree was damaged by a freeze, but he says that the thing that actually killed the tree was the insect damage after the tree had been so severely "stressed." I have heard similar reports about lychee (litchi) trees. What's the best way to help a tree to recover after it has been damaged by a freeze? Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - January 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online October 15, 1998 [AKA RFN9810B] If you have asked me to send something that hasn't arrived, (within a week of asking), please send the request again. My usual scheme is to reply on the same day as receiving your mail. Sometimes the mail comes with a wrong date. (Is that set by your computer or some provider along the way?) I recently got something with a date several months ago. My email application files mail by the date on it. Also, the mail doesn't always get through. So, if it's something you want from me, keep asking until I either send it or explain that I am not going to send it. Similarly, if you don't get the newsletter, it can be from several reasons. I probably made some weird error a while back so that about forty people didn't get the newsletter, due to an alias I used in Netscape mail for that group. Other times, there's no explanation, it just doesn't go through. Please let me know so I can remedy the error, if it's my error, or in any case, just send it along again. I really appreciate it when you send me a CC or BCC when writing to other readers of RFNO. Most of the best information that has been past along has been due to the thoughtfulness of such correspondents. Thanks again! Leo Rare Fruit News Online is primarily a collection of letters from you, the readers. I usually edit each submission, often in a very minor way. It helps if your mail has a relevant SUBJECT. If you want your letter to be published, please use your *real* name someplace in the letter. It takes time to look up your name, so please sign your email. ----------------Index: What's in this issue?----------------- New Subscribers From: Larry Bergez Subject: New Subscriber, CA From: Tom Greaves Subject: New Subscriber, Dallas, TX Wants Help Finding Solarium Plants From: Caitlin Haskell Subject: New Subscriber, Anaheim, CA From: Nan Sterman Subject: New Subscriber, Southern California Readers Write From: Tom Greaves Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online: Intro, Sample, List of Supplements From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" Subject: jaboticaba & cherimoya - sources in Canada? From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Need Information - San Francisco/Napa Valley From: "Geoff Buckner" To: Subject: Historical Microclimate Record and Mangoes Near the Coast To: "Geoff Buckner" From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Re: Mangoes Near the Coast From: "Ben Poirier" Subject: Roselle fruit - Information Sought From: Geoffrey Dunn Subject: Terminator Technology, also Buddha's Hand Citron, From: "Lorinda Millar" Subject: Hi from Canberra, Australia! - What Can I Grow? From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Landscaping Software - Information Sought From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: AzCRFG October newsletter Status of Longan in Thailand; Five Plus Two Part Series From: Sainarong Rasananda --- Stoke's (Banana Plant) sale - And Various Responses ---------------- Please Help Answer Their Questions------------------- From: Larry Bergez Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:43:53 EDT Subject: New Subscriber, CA I recently attended the Annual CRFG Meeting in San Diego and picked up your card. Based upon your questionnaire, here are some of the information that you asked. My name is Larry Bergez, and I live in West Hills, Ca. 91304 I'm interested in growing rarefruit and I have some fruit trees growing in a 1-1/2 acre located in the North County - Escondido. I belong to CRFG - LA Chapter. I have avocados, macademia nuts, mango, papayas, bananas, longan, atemoya, fuji apples, fuyu persimmons, jujube (LI), pomegranate, asian pears, tropical guava, plums, nectarines, apricot, peaches and large collection of citrus - pummelo (6 varieties). I would like to subscribe to your newsletter of Rare Fruit News Online and copies of earlier issues. Thank you very much and hope to hear from you very soon. Larry Bergez ------------------------------- From: Tom Greaves Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:24:52 -0500 Subject: New Subscriber, Dallas, TX Wants Help Finding Solarium Plants Thanks Leo. Yes I'd like to be on the rarefruit list. Here's some info about me: My name is Tom Greaves, I live near Dallas, TX. We are right on the border of zone 7 and 8. Not many fruit or vegetable crops do well here due to the intense heat of summer (we had 60+ days this year with temps over 100 F) and cold winters (usually gets down in the teens F). Some plums, apples and peaches can be grown. I have 4 varieties of plums (all were lost to a late frost), a Ranger Peach (most of the fruit was lost to a bad hail storm), Orient pear (all crop lost due to the terrible heat this year. Last year it had a bumper crop.), several pecans (too young to tell much), a Moorpark Apricot (the only apricot that has a chance. It is predicted to have a crop only once per ten years due to late frosts.). I also have walnuts and almonds planted just last year. In the vegetable garden, cantaloupes and zucchini do well. Only one variety of tomato will set fruit (Merced). I also grow about 20 kinds of hot peppers under sunscreens. But, the reason I want to join this list is that I am constructing a 25' x 12' glass solarium off my familyroom and I want to grow unusual fruit in it. Construction is scheduled to be completed in two weeks. So far I've accumulated a Meyer Lemon, a tangelo tree, a dwarf banana (don't have the variety with me right now) and will transplant about 20 pepper plants (they are actually perennials and will continue producing for 8-10 years). Already I have discovered that the solarium is too small, but will have to wait a long time before I can convince the wife to let me expand. The idea for rare fruit just came a few days ago, so now I'm frantically searching for mail order sources. I sent off to four companies today to get their catalogs. My first question for the list is for suggestions of fruits that don't take up too much room and don't get any taller than 8'. I look forward to sharing information and experiences. Tom ------------------------------- From: Caitlin Haskell Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:42:48 EDT Subject: New Subscriber, Anaheim, CA I am Caitlin Haskell in Anaheim, California. I live in an old farmhouse with my husband Robert, 4 Cats, 3 Dogs, Rabbit, Tarantula, and 2 fish tanks. I grew up in a home with a yard full of fruit and nut trees, and I just don't think a house would be a home without some. We have owned our home less than a year and we are anxious to start work on planting fruit trees. I believe that it is important to preserve "antique" varieties of fruits and vegetables, and I would love to plant some "old fashioned" standards - apples, oranges, pears, peaches, and a pomegranate. I know how we cared for our grapefruit, navel orange, apricot, walnut and pomegranate as a child, but I don't know much about what varieties will grow well here, or where to locate them. (Though I know Orange County is one of the best places to grow some fruits.) I saw the Rare Fruit growers booth at the Orange County Fair, and have wanted to learn more ever since. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for telling me about your family too. : ) Caitlin Haskell ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:34 -0800 From: Nan Sterman Subject: New Subscriber, Southern California Hello Leo! Pleaase add me to your e-mail newsletter. Here's my info I am Nan Sterman, living in Olivenhain, CA (part of Encinitas) I have all kinds of stone fruit trees, guava, mango, banana, paw-paw, surinam cherries, blueberries, blackberries, avocado, citrus, etc. Thanks! Nan Sterman ---------------Readers Write---------------- From: Tom Greaves Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:17:25 -0500 Subject: Rare Fruit News Online Information Leo, thank you very much for everything you sent. I found the Webpage of Bruce Livingston to be especially helpful mostly in the links he has. When you get time, will you please email me the following 4 documents: FlowrFruit, Lychee91, Luchee93 and Mak Fruit. I'm considering joining the CRFG. What do you think about it? Tom ------------------------------- From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" Subject: jaboticaba & cherimoya - sources in Canada? Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:13:09 -0400 hello leo anyone know of a canadian source of jaboticaba or cherimoya? thank you bert dunn tottenham ontario canada ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:33:26 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Need Information - San Francisco/Napa Valley Hi Leo- Can you put me in touch with a rare fruit gardener in the San Francisco/Napa Valley area? I will be traveling there Oct 20-25, 1998, would like to know about points of interest (Eg. botanical gardening, farmer's markets, asian markets, great nurseries), and would like to see an compare notes with a enthusiast in the area (perhaps see what he is growing). I already arranged transportation and accommodations and visits to wineries. I suspect the San Francisco/Napa Vally area is close to a temperate climate. As you know, I live near Miami and grow many different tropical and subtropical fruits. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks,Russ Kaplan ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 98 8:41:10 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" To: Subject: Historical Microclimate Record and Mangoes Near the Coast Matthew, I did not conduct a scientific study, however, I would concur with you that the El Nino winter in the San Diego area was average regarding temperature, if not slightly below average. The spring and summer seemed especially wet and cold. Do you have any historical microclimate records for Point Loma? If so, I would be very interested in viewing the data. Regarding an electronic conversation we had several months ago concerning mangoes performing well near the coast, I have some preliminary results that I would like to share. In early spring I planted two Manila's (15 gal), a Nam Doc Mai (15 gal), an Okrung (7.5 gal), and on your suggestion a Valencia Pride (30 gal). Each of the manila's had two flushes of growth, one in July and the next in September. Each flush added approximately 4-5 inches of new growth to each branch. Nevertheless, with the extended wet and cold weather, each of these plants acquired anthracnose damage on the first flush. These plants seem especially susceptible to this disease. The Nam Doc put out several blooms in July which set fruit. Because the plant is small (2 ft) I cut off all of the fruit. In August, it had a flush that added approximately four inches of new growth plus some more blooms that have set fruit. It has not acquired any anthracnose. The Okrung did not do much until late August. All of a sudden it sent out a flush that has added about 12 inches to each branch. No blooms or anthracnose. The Valencia Pride has done nothing but fruit. It has sent out an almost continual supply of blooms since I planted it. It finally stopped blooming in September. Because this plant is larger, I have let it self-thin itself. There are at least three generations of fruit on it with the largest being about 6 x 3 inches in diameter. It has not had any growth flushes or any signs of anthracnose. So much for the mango report. Thank you in advance for your reply regarding the climate information. Geoff Buckner Point Loma area of San Diego ------------------------------- To: "Geoff Buckner" From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Re: Mangoes Near the Coast Geoff, Leo, and RFNOers: Geoff provides an interesting report on his preliminary trials of some mangoes in Point Loma. The only one of his varieties that I have is Valencia Pride. Like Geoff, I can report that mine flowers almost constantly--as long as the weather is getting into the high 60s in the day. I have seen it flower in January when nighttime temperatures were in the 40s! It won't set in such conditions, but it tries. It usually won't set till late spring. This year, due to the cool spring, it set much later. In October of '97 I was enjoying ripe mangoes. This year I have only about half a dozen fruits on the tree and they are still not even half the size of what I harvested last year at this time. I have doubts that they will ever ripen, though this recent warm spell may help. What surprises me is that Geoff is not getting growth flushes on his VP. Mine is in the midst of one right now, and has had about four this year. The tree was planted in May, 1996, from a five-gallon can. It is now about five feet tall with an irregularly shaped, approximately 3-foot, spread. I have had very little anthracnose, but I do get some. No mildew. I am thinking of adding a Manila and a Nam Doc Mai to my yard, so I am encouraged by Geoff's reports on these varieties. Matthew --------------------------- From: "Ben Poirier" Subject: Roselle fruit - Information Sought Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:47:24 -0700 Hi Leo and All, I hope someone can help me with a question regarding the "fruits " of the roselle.After three years of trying, these plants have finally flowered and fruited this year (Usually they flower later in the year and die with the cold weather before fruiting) I know that one uses the flower calyx for either a tea or jam, but just when do you harvest these calyx ?? Right after flowering, there is not much to the calyx. A few days later it is full of the seed pod (doesn't look like there is much useful to this part). Is it picked at this time and the seed pod discarded ? Or is it left to ripen and picked when the seed is mature ? Is the seed pod then discarded or used ? Is it just the base of the calyx that is used or are bracts surrounding the seed pod used too ? Does anyone have any specific recipes for this ? I would appreciate any info on this so I can give it a try this year. Ben Poirier ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:50:52 -0700 From: Geoffrey Dunn Subject: Terminator Technology, also Buddha's Hand Citron, Dear Leo, Thanks for the RFNO with the Terminator Tech Info, I managed to have a caution printed by one of our foremost farming journals re this dastardly plan. Would you believe that thanks to RFNO, I was probably The first South African to have this knowledge to share? I have managed to Find some grafted Buddha's Hand Citron Trees, and will take delivery late in November. I will try and share this growing experience with any list members who may be interested. Likewise anyone who already has grown Buddha's Hand Citron please share your experience with me. Last but not least a note of condolence to Mr Gholstons Family and Friends. I was one of the people he assisted, and I am saddened to hear of his Passing. Regards ------------------------------- From: "Lorinda Millar" Subject: Hi from Canberra, Australia! - What Can I Grow? Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:03:59 +1000 Hi! My name is Lorinda Millar and I live in Canberra, Australia's capital. I'm very interested in fruit growing and so far, in my smallish backyard, I have planted apple, pear, apricot, peach, plum, nectarine and feijoa trees. I have a 'pleach' tree waiting to be planted (a plum/peach cross) and I also have put in raspberries, thornless blackberries and youngberries, boysenberries, strawberries and blueberries. I'm keen to try more unusual trees (if I don't run out of room!!!) Most of the trees were only planted about 14 months ago, and we already have small peaches growing and a couple of plums. (Can't wait to try them!) Our climate in Canberra is equivalent to about zone 8 in the US. Summers are hot and dry and we get frost most nights in the winter. I'd love to hear about some possibilities... Lorinda Millar -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 11:29:12 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Landscaping Software - Information Sought Leo, I will be moving soon to another property in Point Loma. Sadly, I will be leaving behind over 50 different varieties of exotic and not so exotic fruiting shrubs and trees. The good news is I am moving to a larger piece of property, so I will have more room to start over. Can you or another subscriber suggest a good software program to help me optimize my new landscaping design? Are there any landscaping freeware or shareware programs available? Thanks. Geoff Buckner ------------------------------- From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: AzCRFG October newsletter and Announcements Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:47:11 -0700 CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, INC. THE ARIZONA BRANCH Meeting the second Thursday of every month OCTOBER MEETING: Was Thursday, 7:00 pm October 8, 1998 Cooperative Extension Palo Verde Room 4341 E. Broadway Dr., Phoenix, Arizona 85040 OCTOBER PROGRAM: Dr. Fred Yerger will enlighten us on practical frost protection. Temperatures this winter will plummet to 32 and likely a couple degrees below. You can bet on it because it happens more often than not. I have never made good on an annual pledge to be prepared next year. That's why it is important to listen carefully to Fred's presentation, take notes, organize a plan of attack and begin your campaign now. There are a number of measures that can be used to effectively minimize damage on cold-tender plants. SEPTEMBER; WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED Dr. Al Falkenstein removed the mystery from propagation by Air Layering. Although widely employed around the world by commercial operations using essentially the same basics practiced 5,000 years ago, this technique for cloning plants is snubbed by laymen (people like us) who perceive it to be difficult and complex. It ain't. Not if you proceed as follows: Select a healthy, young branch about 1/2" to 1" in girth on an actively growing mature or adult tree preferably of bearing age. The branch should have as many leaves as possible in a location with about 50% shade for optimum success. Pick a spot 12 to 30 inches from the tip by imagining what it would look like growing in a pot on its own roots. Girdle the branch with a sharp knife and remove a minimum of one-quarter inch strip of bark, clean, to bare wood. completely around the branch. Do nothing further for three or four weeks or until callus has formed on the ring of bark nearest the branch tip. If no callus forms, it is not likely to develop roots. You may want to start with more than one prospective branch. Wet the callused area and apply rooting hormone. Completely enclose the area with damp (but not wet) sphagnum moss and wrap it snugly with Saran wrap. Enclose the section with aluminum foil to deflect light and excessive heat. Check progress and moisture by periodically peeling back the foil. If dry, moisture can be added with a syringe. Two or three months may be required for good root growth. Patience is an important ingredient. After roots have grown, remove the wrappings, lop off the branch about 1" below the girdled area and pot it in good planting mix. Trim some of the foliage to match the small root system and limit water loss through leaves. Since the plant's water supply has been cut off, it should be misted or stored in a humid environment for two weeks and hardened off gradually before exposing to full sun. Misting may be done with a spray bottle containing a weak solution of fertilizer. As for the other half of the propagation program, uncooperative bark on a citrus seedling sort of did-in the show. Let's just say the demonstrator left with all eight of his ten fingers intact. There is, however, much to be learned about grafting and the best way to do it is by selecting any tree in your yard and practice all the methods by grafting that tree to itself. Do it over and over until you are skilled enough to brag. GARDEN CLUBS FAIR Saturday, October 17, 1998 We can fine-tune all the details at our meeting on October 8th. If you are a new member, the Fair is held at the Cooperative Extension. If you are a prospective member receiving this newsletter, come on out and get acquainted. We can assume the arrangements will be similar to the function held on March 14. It is an opportunity for us to have a good time, get to know each other better and earn cash to fund our objectives; promoting the cultivation of edible tropical and subtropical fruit in home landscapes. Our degree of success at the Fair will depend on how many interesting plants we have for sale and the number of prospects that connect with the attraction and join the AzCRFG. The Fair Committee [Joe Corabe, Page Greer, Janet Rogers, Allison Yerger and Dick Gross] needs assistance. You can all share in the fun. 1998 FESTIVAL OF FRUIT-SAN DIEGO The festival was well represented by Arizona members. Many of you wanted to attend but couldn't because of other commitments. The San Diego Chapter deserves a commendation for an outstanding accomplishment. That is not to say there were no glitches. The few were handled professionally. The logistics of such an undertaking makes my hair stand on end and when Glenn Young remarked that it would be held in Arizona next year I found myself frantically looking for a roll of toilet paper. The 1999 Festival will be in San Francisco. Whew! The Arizona Cornucopia looked quite professional and delicious. The display did us well. Thanks to all of you who participated; Joe Corabe, Fred Yerger, Allison Yerger, Jim and Carole Crosson, Al Falkenstein and, last but not least, I thank myself, Grick Doss. Arizona members were received by a host of nice, friendly, outgoing people skilled, many of them, in the art of growing rare fruit, all eager to share their wealth of knowledge with friends and strangers alike. My only disappointment was not seeing more of the tour sites. My wife and I visited the Quail Gardens in Encinitas and Leo Manuel's home north on Interstate 15. Leo's place took my breath away. It is a gem that a thousand superlatives penned by a master-writer might do justice. I cannot. DEMONSTRATION GARDEN Memoriam: You may remember the visit of President Glenn Young and CRFG officers Eunice Messner, George Emerich and Don Gholston in March. Obituary: Don Gholston 1927-1998 It is with deep regret that I report to you the death of Don Gholston at the age of 71, at his home in Watsonville, California on September 21st of a heart attack. Don was a loyal and hard working member of CRFG. Don was a native of San Angelo, Texas. Arrangements await the arrival of his family. Don was a long time employee of Chevron Oil Company. His kind nature, soft voice and mild manner belied his competence and strength as a person. He was a chemist and very knowledgeable researcher. He devoted many hours of work in supplying answers to persons writing to the CRFG web site with questions regarding fruiting trees. Don had responded to approximately sixteen hundred requests for such information in 1998 alone. Don served on the CRFG Board of Directors beginning in 1991 and as President from September 1994 until February 1996. He continued as a Vice President and coordinated chapter relations for Northern California. I have lost a personal friend and CRFG has lost a great friend and booster. Our kindest sympathy goes out to his family. He will be sorely missed! Glenn G. Young, President, California Rare Fruit Growers AVOCADOS Julie Frink spoke at the fruit festival on Avocado, Cultivars and Care. her data may be of interest if you have or want to grow the fruit. The many cultivars of avocado have been divided into three "horticultural" races, West Indian, Guatemalan and Mexican. Many cultivars are hybrids of the three. Mexican fruit is smallish, smooth skin, large "tight" seed with leaves and flesh that have an anise odor and taste. She went on to say, however, that Avocado leaves are "very" toxic. Further: Seeds generally do not run true but the Mexican has a better chance. Mexican is the hardiest rootstock. Avocados require good drainage. Standing water is always fatal. The tree likes full sun but exposed bark on young trees should be protected from sunburn. Paint with white latex. Adult trees are usually shaded with their own leaves. Trees may be heavily pruned for height. Pruning does not hurt the plant. Avocados are subject to severe salt burn. (A critical fact in the Salt River Valley with saline irrigation water and alkaline soil.) When planting, Julie sets the pot on level ground then builds a compost mound around it. After the mound has settled in, she removes the container and places the tree in the hole. One could plant in a raised-bed over gravel for the same effect. Avocado roots are relatively shallow. Avocado sex is unusual. Well, kinky? There are types A and B and an oddball or two that may fall somewhere in the nether. A typical A or B by itself will set enough fruit for an average family. A scion from a B may be grafted to an A or visa versa. Planted in close proximity, either is more productive. Most common varieties are distinctly an A or B. All Avocado flowers have both male and female paraphernalia. "A" flowers are receptive to pollen in the morning but don't release their pollen until the afternoon of the following day. "B" flowers are receptive to pollen in the afternoon but don't release pollen until the morning of the next day. Julie said the female pistil is a prominent feature and male parts are the little "fluffies" in the middle. DECEMBER MEETING: In addition to the election of officers and a discussion of agenda and activities in 1999, please note that the December program includes a PotLuck dinner and gift exchange. Allison proposed the idea for discussion at the next meeting. Sounds like fun to me but the decision rests with you. MEETING AGENDA FOR 1998 MONTH SUBJECT SPEAKER October 8 Frost Protection Fred Yerger November 12 Ginger Allison Yerger December 10 Pot Luck Dinner & Gift Xchange Election of Officers 1999 Goals and Objectives -------Status of Longan in Thailand; Five Plus Two Part Series--------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:57:31 +0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Status of Longan in Thailand - 1 The point that was driven home, for me, is that the Thai Govenment is now really serious about supporting and promoting longans. In the past, for reasons I shall not bother to go into, longan activities were almost ignored by the government. Now, with the economic crisis clearly upon us, the Thai government is re-looking at the agricultural sector as our saviour. They are pushing all kinds of agriculture, particularly those which earn precious foreign exchange. It suddenly dawns on those in power that longan has been our number one fresh fruit export for many years. The importance of longan is further driven home by the disaster (there is no other word for it) of this year longan crop, which is only 5% of the previous record year, thanks to el Nino. Anyway, the table has now turned, and longan has suddenly become the darling of the Thai agricultural world. Works on longans are being pushed forward, sometimes at the expense of other crops. So, it would seem that a new era on Thai longan is dawning. However, one should never discount the inertia and inefficiencies the the bureaucracy. ------------------------------- Subject: status of longan in Thailand - 2 It became clear that there are many organizations in Thailand currently involved in the study and promotion of longan. However, in the past, there were little coordinations among these organizations. I, myself, discovered many organizations and people, involved in longan, whom I did not know or was not aware of before. Ditto, many others, I am sure. In this aspect, the meeting was an eye opener. As a result of the way the Thai bureaucracy system works, some of the previous studies were rather piecemeal or not as thorough as we would have liked. Worse, a lot of these studies ends up gathering dust on a bookshelf. Hopefully, with this new awareness, all these will be changing for the better. The improvement will not be 100%, but, nevertheless, there will be a considerable improvement. For example, to my knowledge, there has never been a longan meeting of this size, and consisting of people from all walks of life. However, one group, which was conspicuously absent, was the traders and the exporters. They were invited, but only a few attended. The various groups of people involved in longans in Thailand are as follows: 1. The universities in the North, namely, Chiangmai, Maejo and Lampang. The main works being done here are researches and helping the growers on technical problems. Most of the people are on the Net. 2. The Department of Agriculture. This is a large organization with branches all over the country. The main works are research, helping the growers, coordination with the Department of Agriculture Extension, export promotion. The important units for longans are the Chiang Rai Horticulture Research Station, and the Northern Research and Development Unit, and the Export Promotion Centre in Bangkok. 3. The Department of Agriculture Extension (this has to be a new meaning in the English language, the Yorkshiremen would not understand the meaning of the word - extension). These are the people closest to the growers. One of their tasks is to bring know-how to the growers. However, in practice, the works being done leaves a lot to be desired. 4. Other governmental ministries, such as the Min. of Public Health, the MO Industry, the MO Commerce. 5. The TISTR (I think that the full name is Thailand Institute of Science and Technology Research or something like that), which is involved in post-harvest research. 6. The exporters who work individually. 7. The traders who also work individually. 8. The growers themselves, with numerous associations, most of which are localised. Most growers, however, are small orchard owners with little education and unaffiliated to any organization. 9. The Thailand Research Fund: a relatively new organization which hands out research funds on a systematic basis. 10. The media which is giving more coverage to longans. There are probably more minor groups, but I cannot think of any at this moment.. ------------------------------- Subject: status of Longan in Thailand - 3 The China Mystery The Thai people have come to recognize that China is both a very large producer and the number one importer of longans. In 1997, almost half of the longans produced in Thailand are exported to China. Statistics shows that almost half of the longan production is consumed domestically, and the 85% of the remaining is exported to China. Most people are aware of the need to fully understand China, both production-wise and marketing-wise. Trips have been made to China, mainly the Guang Si Province. However, reports still remain incomplete, fragmentary and sometimes conflicting. In spite of the realization of the paramount importance of China, there is, as yet, no concrete plan for a complete survey of the Chinese longan situation. People are merely speculating and extrapolating from what they know or have seen. This, to me, is very worrying. ------------------------------- Subject: status of longan in Thailand - 4 The Various Cultivars The history of longans in Thailand was never recorded. Legend, which probably contains considerable amount of truth, has it that longan was brought to Bangkok just over a hundred years ago by Chinese immigrants. From there it found its way to Chiangmai in the North. Somewhere along the way, it mutated, probably into the world-famous Biew Kiew. At any rate, most Thais surmise that Biew Kiew is the ancestor of the Thai longans, because the oldest longan trees in the North are all Biew Kiew. I myself have visited the orchard which is supposed to be where it all started. This orchard, in Chiangmai, consists mainly of Biew Kiew, which are at least 80 years old. Presumably then, Biew Kiew is the Mother of the Thai longans. Nowadays, the most common cultivars in Thailand are Ee Daw (the early and light ones), See Chompoo(Pink), Ee Haew and Petch Sakorn(Diamond). Of these Ee Daw accounts for well over 85%. I shall now concentrate on Ee Daw or Daw, for short. Daw is a local word in the Northern dialect which means light. This either means early or proliferous. Either meaning describes Daw well. It flowers earlier than other cultivars, flowers more easily than other cultivars, and also flowers fairly proliferously. Why is Daw so clearly the favourite in Thailand? 1. The export market (meaning the Chinese market) wants Daw. 2. It is the best for making dried longans, which the Chinese love. 3. It is good for canning. 4. It is large. 5. The outer skin looks good. 6. Because of its fairly thick outer skin, it is fairly durable, and does not deteriorate as a result of transportation. Sulphur dioxide also does not penetrate into the aril. 7. It is easier to grow and to take care of. 8. It has less tendency towards biennial flowering. So, even though it is not the tastiest longan, it earns the growers more profits than any other cultivars. AS a matter of fact, one of the largest exporters said in the seminar: "Do not grow anything apart from the Daw with soft stem. It is well accepted by the market". Ah ha, Daw with Soft stem? I can hear you say. Well. it transpires that there has been numerous slight mutations of Daws. Most of these still retains the name Daw, probably because of that magic word Daw, or probably because the new variety is very close to the original Daw, or probably because they are not sure whether it is really a mutant or whether the change is due to different environment. The confusion over the various varieties of Daw is probably brought about by the fact that there has never been any serious academic attempt to identify these varieties. Besides, when you buy a Daw marcot, there is practically no guarantee that you are buying a genuine Daw, let alone a marcot from a good Daw tree. Anyway, there are now many varieties of Daws, such as Daw with soft stem, Daw with red stem, Daw with hard stem, Daw Sukhum, Daw Puang Tong, Daw Petch Vieng Ping, Daw Loong Kam La and so on. Many growers, let alone the general populace, are aware of these Daw varieties. They think that there is just one Daw! So, caveat emptor! To compound the confusion, most people in Bangkok, including the vendors, have never heard of Daw! If you ask a Bangkokian, what are the best longans, s/he will most likely say See Chompoo or Haew; some may say Biew Kiew. If you ask a Bangkok vendor the same question, s/he will invariably say "Kaloke (skull)", which is a name for all large-size, sweet-tasting longans. Another mystery about Daw is that it seems to thrive only in Thailand. I wonder why. I have not yet been able to find anyone who can give me a satisfactory explanation. Words flow among the Thais that about one million Daw marcots have been smuggled from Thailand into China. If this is true, and it seems to be so, the Chinese may be in for a bit of nasty surprises. ------------------------------- Subject: Status of longan in Thailand - 5 Petch Sakorn I have written in parts about Petch Sakorn before. I shall try add further information about this cultivar, and try not to repeat myself here. 1. About the name: Petch means diamond, Sakorn is short for Samut Sakorn, the province where Petch Sakorn was discovered. Some people in America call it 'Diamond' or 'diamond River'. 2. What is it? I am pretty sure that it is not Dimocarpus Longan Lour. (I am writing this from memory, so the spelling or the words may not be quite correct), which is the sub-species of practically all commercial longan cultivars in the world. I think it is Dimocarpus Longepetiolelatus Leenh (or something to that effect), which is a sub-species found in Thailand. Or it may even be a cross between the two. More works are needed here. Please refer to Choo and Ketsa 1991 for details about the various species and sub-species of longans. 3. Where can it be grown? I have a feeling that, like mango, it can be grown anywhere in Thailand. Reports have it that flowering in the cooler North (which most longans prefer) is not as proliferous as elsewhere. Fruit set does not appear to be a problem. It is very easy to grow and look after. 4. When does it flower? Here it generally flowers twice a year, although sporadic flowering may appear at other times as well. Cincturing or girdling encourages flowering to a great extent. Many use cincturing to ensure maturing of the fruit during the Chinese New Year in January or February. The major crop occurs at the same time as the other longans. However, most of the growers here discard this crop entirely as it cannot compete with the other longans. The other crop flowers in about August or September. 5. What does it taste like? As I am not good at describing unfamiliar taste, words fail me. I have already described as much as I can, which is not enough, I know. 6. Why are people growing it? It is easy to grow anywhere. In the past, the popular longans were grown almost exclusively in the North. It fetches a very very good price during the Chinese New Year. It is a novelty, because it is the first longan we know which matures in January. 7. What other uses has it? It is found to make good dried longans. However, no commercial production has been reported yet. 8. Does it has a bright future? For the Thai taste, it is a long way behind the other longans. Most Thais agree that improvements are necessary. However, they also agree that it is a good starting point. However, the Thai taste is not necessary the same as the Westerners. We Thais think poorly of Kensington Pride, R2E2 and the whole lots (these are mangoes). -------------------- Subject: Situation of Longan in Thailand The Popular Cultivars To summarize, the most-grown cultivar by far is Daw. Among the new cultivars, the most-grown is Petch Sakorn - it is still a very, very long way behind Daw. The major problems with Daw are as follows: 1. The flavour is not the best - about # 3 or 4, I guess. 2. All Daws in the North mature at about the same time, which presents us with all sorts of problems. 3. We would like to find a cultivar which matures about a month or more earlier. 4. Like most cultivars, Daw still has this tendency towards biennial bearing. The major problems with Petch Sakorn are as follows: 1. The flesh is too watery 2. It has a particular taste, which is not to the liking of the Thais. Most Thais agree that Petch Sakorn needs improvement before it becomes widely acceptable. At present, its real value is its ability to bear fruits out of season, as well as its comparative rarity. So the search is on for a new cultivar. Sainarong ------------------------------- Subject: Importance of Humidity For Longans Many people here are beginning to think that humidity is essential for both the flowering of lychees and longans and the fruit-set thereof. No sufficient research has been done on this as yet. Some growers are thinking of experimenting with overhead mist sprayers above the trees to keep both the temperature down and humidity up during an unfavourable season. I myself am leaning towards this idea. My problem is that most of my longan trees are very very high indeed!!! Which brings us to another subject in vogue here. Is it possible to keep the height of the trees low and yet generate good crops annually? Academics think that this is definitely the way to go, but a lot of work needs to be done in this area, because the growth in our climate is proliferous, to say the very least. Sainarong [Thanks, Sainarong! I make some or all of this into one longish longan supplement, with your permission and your editing. Leo] -----------Stoke's (Banana) sale - And Various Responses--------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:04 -0400 (EDT) From: HESTERC@mail01.adm.duke.edu Mailing-List: list zingiber@onelist.com; contact http://www.onelist.com Subject: Stoke's (Banana) sale - And Various Responses To list members: Most of you are probably on the mailing list, but for those who aren't, Stoke's Tropicals recently sent out a flyer with an "end-of-summer" sale. There are 10 types of bananas listed, each available for $7.95. The list includes Rajapuri, Rojo (a.k.a. Zebrina), Ornata "Lavender", Mysore, Cardaba, Double (Mahoi), Kru, Super Dwarf Cavendish, Basjoo and Grand Nain. There are also several gingers, a couple of heliconias, and a few Plumerias on sale. They have a toll free number for ordering: 1-800-624-9706. Note that I am not endorsing Stoke's--in fact, I had minor problems with the last order I got from them. However, the bananas are worth a try at those prices. I also don't hold anything against them, I just want to make it clear I have no connection with them. Just thought some people out there might want to know. Clarence Hester ------------------------------- From: Lester Kallus I have had a bit of experience with Stokes. I can tell you that they've been efficient in sending plants when I wanted them. A Globba that I ordered arrived 1/2 brown. I called them and had a replacement in 3 days. It arrived green but wilted and rolled over dead. I called them again and got yet one more replacement. They gave me absolutely no trouble at all when I called for the replacement and were surprisingly pleasant given that they were sending me a second replacement. I too have no connection with them and obviously have had a bit of trouble with some of their shipments but they've been honorable and I definitely plan to use them for future purchases. Incidentally, with spring orders, there's a discount if you order through the web rather than over the phone. I don't know if that carries over to a further discount beyond the sale. Now if only I could find a space to put a couple of the products while awaiting my greenhouse to be completed... (sigh) Les -------------------------------------- From: "Raymond N. Gerlach" I too have ordered many plants from Stokes' and have had only good luck with them. They ship the banana corms with the roots still attached. Pop the corms into the ground and they start growing immediately. Lessard's old nursery is now "Going Bananas". I have had mixed luck with them. Their corms are shipped stripped of all roots and greenery. I had several start growing after approximately a month and then there was the Saba and Ele Ele which fizzled into a pair of mushy piles without even showing a sign of life. Another place that I've had great luck with is Tropiflora's Cargo Report. During the spring and summer their catalog listed a 10 pack of assorted bananas for $50 including shipping. I ordered one and the plants did wonderful. I ordered from them last year and was very satisfied too. Happy growing, Ray in Ky. zone 6a -------------------------------- From: David Matz Fellow banana enthusiasts (and whatever other tropicals are discussed here): I've been very satisfied with Stokes. The sale they are running now was mentioned earlier, and, since I actually ordered some, I thought I'd pass on that I am very satisfied with my new bananas. The five I ordered joined my other five. The one thing I can't stress too much is that they shipped fast. I was under some climate pressure. We had snow the Monday that I ordered them, so, that was the last week I was willing to get any plants shipped. I got them Friday, and, all were in good shape. My bananas are house plants, needless to say! David in Alaska, zone 1 or less! >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - January 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 02/03/97 03 For some reason, many strange symbols crop up in email. Most are of the type -20 or -92 or -93, etc. This makes editing more of a chore than one would guess. It further complicates editing when much of the text of a previous newsletter is quoted by someone. It shouldnÕt make any difference, but I found that it takes longer to get the Ō> quotesĶ only at the beginning of lines, and to have the lines relatively full length, and to make it clear where the original ideas end and the response begin. IÕd suggest, but only suggest, that you work the sense of the cited text into your response. ItÕs no biggie, but just on my mind. Leo ------------------------- [Scott responds to PatriciaÕs questions about his freeze protection system, From: "Scott Daniels" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 01/26/97 02 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:58:26 -0500 Patricia wrote: > Hi Leo. > If you could, please relate to Scott Daniels that I would be > interested in hearing everything about his freeze protection > system. I got to see the damage this weekend. Four citrus trees > all young. The misting system worked well where it hit the > trees. Lost a couple I think. Lost all my tomatoes, green > peppers, and eggplants. They were covered, but it got really > cold here. It had to be in the teens here in Lakeland. The citrus > didnÕt get this bad last year when we hit 18 degrees! Patricia It sounds like maybe you are already using the same system I have. Here is what I have. I use microjet irrigation for all of my trees during the year. I use the big yellow stakes with one of the 270 degree spray nozzles. When the freeze hit, I changed the regular nozzle to a 45 degree spray. Then I moved the stake from the base of the tree out a foot or so and put it in the ground at an angle so the mist would shoot straight up in the air. This worked for trees < 3' tall. For the bigger trees, I also added a piece of tubing and another jet at the end, and placed it in the bough of the tree. The two jets seemed to provide good coverage for trees 8' tall. I used the red jets which put out about 15 gallons per hour. I looked at my trees yesterday and I still had some damage. We hit 24 degrees and were in the 20s for at least 8 hours. The macadamia and white sapote had considerable leaf burn, but were otherwise fine. The rose apple is dead, and the guava is severely damaged. I suspect the damage to the latter my be due to exposure to sub-freezing temperatures without any protection. By the time I got the water running that night, the temp. was alreay 26 degrees. The next night may also have been sub-freezing, but I did nothing to protect them. In the future I may have more data, but I think that where the leaves were covered in ice, they were protected for the most part, but burning is to be expected. As to where to buy microjet supplies, the good stuff comes from a wholesale irrigation supply. In Manattee county, Coast pump, TWC, and James irrigation are ones I have visited. You can buy from them as long as you spend at least $20 or so. If you buy hose though, be prepared to buy 1000'. The prices are a lot less than Home Depot. Alternatively, if you are only protecting a few trees, you can buy similar stuff at HomeDepot or one of the other home improvement centers. Good growing, Scott Daniels ---------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 01/26/97 02 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:03:18 -0500 Scott, was it really 24 degrees? I would have expected colder temperatures where I live (north of Orlando), but it wasn't nearly that cold here. Perhaps the cold weather came in from the west and didn't make it all the way across the state. Apparently, the misting method of cold protection is very effective. It's easy to do, also. I would have expected (Rose Apple, and Guava) to be completely defoliated, and possibly dead. --------------------------------------------- Kenneth needs sources of information. IÕm putting his letter here for you to see and perhaps you can recommend places for him to look: Jan 29 09:47:31 1997 From: krtosu hello leo yes i am interested in growing rare fruits. i am researching berry and fruit trees. in particular, i am looking for information on apricots. my farm is located in northeastern ohio. i am keeping it organic and am finding it difficult to find reliable information. if you can be of assistance please email me at krtosu@micro-net.com thank you kenneth tarsitano ----------------------------- Thu Jan 30 21:37:35 1997 From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" Subject: My recommendations I love the newsletter, and I'm sure that many others on the list do, too. You may not realize what you have done, but you have succeeded in "bringing together" tropical fruit enthusiasts from all around the country. I can ask a question and have at least one answer in just a few days: that's great. It seems that more and more people are "posting" to the newsletter, and more people are added to the list each week. So far your project has been very successful. Sincerely, Oliver ------------- There are rarefruit growers in the San Francisco area, I believe. Can any of you help Piyush with the questions in the following letter? Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:50:39 -0800 From: Piyush Mehta Hi Leo, I wish I had easier access to rare-fruit growers, and I know I would've benefitted from a news group like the one you wish to get started. I think it is a good idea to exchange information and share ideas through this medium. I would certainly be a reader and maybe a contributor (if I have any information that helps). I am a complete novice in the Bay Area (close to San Francisco) who would like to grow and enjoy these so-called rare fuits. However, I must admit that I am hesitant to buy expensive fruit trees and then have the winter cold wipe them out. If you have the time, maybe you, or somebody you know, can help me with these questions: * How easy is it for a rare fruit tree to survivie the cold? In the outdoors (without a green-house) is there any way to overcome this problem? * I would like to grow guava, white sapote, pomegranates, bananas, mango (if dwarf), lychees, etc. Do you have sources for these trees? Are you aware of "home gardeners" that are able to sell trees at lower costs than nurseries? * Do you have recommendations for nurseries from where to purchase these trees? I hope I am not imposing on you. Thx, Piyush >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - February 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 There were fewer responses on sources of information on the internet than I had hoped, but if you think of some later that you believe will be helpful, please pass them along. What about telling of the publications you believe would be helpful. I belong to North American Fruit Explorers, NAFEX, and have received their publication, Pomona, for years. Subscription information at: NAFEX, Rt. 1, Box 94, Chapin, IL 62628. Dues are $12 for 4 quarterly issues. I also belong to California Rare Fruit Growers, am a life member, and have belonged almost from the beginning. I have every original issue. (The first ones were mimeogaphed.) I cannot praise CRFG too highly. The publications have been extremely useful. See their web page. Fruit Varieties Journal has been very helpful, covering trees from temporate and subtropical climate zones. It is a publication of American Pomological Society. Membership is $20 per year. Write to: Business Manager Robert M. Crassweller, 102 Tyson Building, University Park, PA 16802. New members are added every month. It would be easy to make a mistake and not get them on the mailing list. If that happens to you (you received past issues but nothing since) do let me know. That message may sound odd, since if theyÕre not on the mailing list, they wonÕt read this. However, I usually send all past issues to new members, and this issue will be a past issue someday. TheyÕll read this, etc. By-the-way, if I didnÕt send past issues to you, and you want them, please let me know. I posted a question on several newsgroups about wanting to find names of dwarfing mangos. YouÕll find the responses by two growers below. I posted via Deja News, and highly recommend that you look into that for yourself, when you want information about anything. Leo ------------------------------------------ From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Sources of information on the internet Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 18:13:06 -0500 Here are some places to check out, if you haven't already: http://www.asiatour.com/thailand/e-02trav/et-tr155.htm http://www.xc.org/echo/ http://agrolink.moa.my/comoditi/fruits.html http://www.ultra.net.au/%7Epns/trop/fruit.htm http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/ -- Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:04:27 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Burkett Subject: Re:Rare Fruit News Online 02/04/97 03 Leo, The -20, -92, -93 symbols show up due to either non-standard ascii emailers (Windows applications are the usual culprit) and such things as pasting from a Windows word processing document to email. Users need to either adjust the preferences for their email programs or take more care in mailing. I personally find it really annoying to read through these meaningless symbols. And what are a few mango varieties that will fruit every year, but remain relatively compact small trees? Richard ------------------------------------------ From: Stef Van Uffel Subject: RareFruit Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:11:07 +0100 Hello Leo, Thanx for the fast reply. Most of you lucky people seem to live in a subtropical climat, so you don't have to worry about freezing to much. By the way, do you already have a rare-fruit newsgroup or did you abandon the idea ? Let me know ! Stef.VanUffel ------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:59:23 -0500 From: Bill Lady Newsgroups: sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,alt.agriculture.misc, sci.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens,alt.agriculture.fruit,aus.gardens Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? > ----------------------- Posted via Deja News --------------------------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Leo wrote: > > What commercial mango (grafted, probably) is more dwarfing, in your > estimate? The question was asked of me by a fellow grower, on our Rare > Fruit Newsletter Online (http://rarefruit.com) and I have only a limited > knowledge for the trees I have. In my limited experience, I have found > that all seedlings seem to be far more vigorous and bigger than all > grafted trees. > Thanks! > Leo > Hi, Leo: The smallest mango tree I know of is the Julie, which I had on my farm in Central America. I planted one here in SW Florida, and a cold snap killed it, so they are not very cold resistant. Seedling mango trees may sometimes grow true to the parent stock, and may not. You never know what you will get. This is the way new mango varieties are discovered, but it takes a few years to know what you have. If you want to be sure of what you are planting, go with the grafted stock every time. Bill Lady ------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:22:09 -0500 From: Bill Lady To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Thanks for the Julie recommendation Leo Manuel wrote: > > Thanks for your reply, suggesting Julie. I've heard about it. How > is the fruit? > Is it susceptible to disease more than average? > (mildew or anthrachnos) What about fruit size and color. Hi, Leo: I'm really not an expert on mangos. I had a farm with some non-commercial mangos in Belize many years ago, and then a small farm in Honduras, with 8 or 10 grafted varieties. No commercial production. I don't believe they are resistant to anthrachnose. I recall one year in Honduras when the general crop all over the country failed due to anthracnose, including at the Pan American Agricultural School, at Zamarano, where all of my fruit trees came from. The students graft the trees and then the school sells them to the public at a very reasonable price to get them out into the country. My farm was in a small valley at 3,200 feet elevation, and practically anything would grow well there. They were relatively small, flat, and the color isn't very attractive. They are a sort of mixed green/purple/reddish combination. I don't think they would be attractive enough for retail sale. The taste and texture are good. The real advantage, I guess, is the very small size of the tree, and the quick bearing. I have eaten some very wonderful mangos from seedling trees. I recall one, in particular, which was grown in Tegucigalpa from a seed from Trujillo, Honduras, and this was outstanding. A little town near the Pacific coast of Honduras, Pespire, is famous for their mangoes, which are very small and mostly from enormous, very old trees, all of which are seedlings. Most of the people in Honduras prefer to eat them green with salt, but not me. Down there you find volunteer seedling trees scattered all around the country, and some must be 75 feet or more tall. > What mangos do you like best? I realize that our weather situation > is different, so that has to be taken into consideration. That's very hard to say. I love most of them. Perhaps the Haden and the improved Haden derivatives (such as the Davis Haden) are best, and they are very beautiful. Last year I bought a lot of mangos locally which were imported from Mexico, and froze them after cutting them up into pieces. Try it. I used ascorbic acid to preserve the color, and a light syrup, and they froze very nicely. In fact. I still have some in the freezer, and had a delicious mango cobler (like a peach cobler) a few days ago. I would love to have a mango tree in my yard here, but am afraid it gets a little too cold here in SW Florida. I guess I'll have to go back to Honduras. Best regards, Bill Lady ------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 21:12:31 0000 From: Libby J. Goldstein Subject: Rare Fruit Hi, I've been growing citrus and bananas (the latter without any fruit as yet) for 5 or 10 years. I grow them all in containers here in Philly, zone 7A. That means that twice a year I can be heard screaming and yelling that I'm going back to growing miniature geraniums as I haul huge pots to and from the bottom of the backyard where it's sunny. (When I designed the garden, I did not make a path straight from the back door to the deck at the bottom of the garden 40/50 ft because it didn't fit my esthetic. Ah well, it does look good.) I also grow raspberries, blueberries, sour cherries and currants, but I never get any blues because the finches nibble the flower buds all winter, and the year I netted the bushes, I caught a yellow throated warbler's head in the net. I can always buy blueberries anyway. We grow figs in our community garden. They're trained as a 6' tall hedge. Here in South Philly, figs aren't all that rare, but fig hedges are. I'd love to be on a rare fruit growers list. Libby South Philadelphia zone 7A ------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:56:03 +1000 From: Brian White Newsgroups: sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,alt.agriculture.misc, sci.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens,alt.agriculture.fruit,aus.gardens To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? Hi, I am an Australian Horticulturist. I have a long-standing interest in the growing of tropical and subtropical fruit trees. Some mango trees do grow smaller than others. The main commercial variety here in Australia is known as Kensington Pride. To my palate, this variety is superior in every way to most others available here. We get Carabao mangoes, and indian mangoes here from time to time, and none can hold a candle to our mainstay variety. Its seeds are polyembryonic, of which only one embryo is usually the result of sexual reproduction. The remaining embryos are usually asexual - ie clones of the mother plant. Whether or not this variety will grow in your area is another question. With regards to size of the tree, mangoes respond well to pruning, and that is the most commonly used method for managing size in Australia. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------------ If anyone can tell Leo where to find Kensington Pride in the US, he REALLY wants to try it! ------------------------------------------ From: Ed Griffin Subject: Rare Fruit Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:54:15 GMT I grow >....at our home you will find such fruit as Mango, Banana, Cherimoa, >Pitanga, Rose Apple, Atemoa, Guava, Capulin Cherry, Longan, >Passion Fruit, Kiwi, Cherry-of-the-Rio-Grande, White Sapote, >Black Sapote, Citrus, Jujube, Japanese Persimmon, and a few others: oranges, tangerines, lemons, limes, grapefruit,lychee, papaya, coconuts, tamarinds, sugar apple, soursop, mamey, Passiflora edulis & quadrangularis, avocados, guavas, macademias, carambola, furry, milky brown-fruit whatsises, satin-leaf hoohoos, acaulescent black-cherry doodads (so I forget names....:^)), akee, jakfruit, and just-now trying "low"-chill pear, peach, apple, and hazelnut, pecan, chestnut, and God-knows what else.... I'm not quite sure where this will end up, so if it's a newsletter, would someone tell me: -1- in the welter of "rare" fruits available here in extreme south Florida, I've never seen a pistachio tree offered: are it's requirements not suited to subtropical climes? -2- I'm up to my ears in conflicting info: are there kiwis that can be grown with NO chilling requirements...? ---- Ed Griffin ---- USDA Zone 10b (FL)- ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:26:09 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Ed Griffin Ed Griffin wrote: > -1- in the welter of "rare" fruits available here in extreme south > Florida, I've never seen a pistachio tree offered: are it's > requirements not suited to subtropical climes? > > -2- I'm up to my ears in conflicting info: are there kiwis that > can be grown with NO chilling requirements...? > > ---- Ed Griffin ----USDA Zone 10b (FL)- Ed, I'm sending your letter to other rare fruit growers for their additional information, but I think you'll find that "trying "low"-chill pear, peach, apple, and hazelnut, pecan, chestnut" will be more challenging, especially hazelnut, and chestnut, as they require more winter chill. You MIGHT get a few pears, but I had trouble, and you're much more tropical than I am. Pistacio trees require considerably more chill, as well, but you might get pecans. Kiwis: there are low chill varieties and it's important to have a male suited for the bloom period of the low chill female. As I recall, Matua (spell?) is a suitable male, and Tewi and Vincent are low-chill females, but I don't know if they're sufficiently low-chill for your more tropical climate. I hope others in the group will respond, as many of them are far more knowledgeable than I. Leo >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - February 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 At my place in San Diego, the are blooming trees of apple, peach, nectaring, plum, mango, pitanga, macadamia, and capulin, that I can think of. IÕve been eating guavas and cherimoas, and an occasional tangerine. ItÕs a great time of year-early March-when the days are noticeably getting longer. Matthew Shugart sends information about what he has growing, and his micro-climate. Don Gholston has additional pistachio and low chill kiwifruit information. Patricia A Cherundolo (Patty) passes on ideas of best-tasting mangos, pistachios, and other deciduous fruit in Florida. Ed Griffin is looking for females (fruit trees.) Harry W. Mazal is a new member and sends information about where to get the Muy Dulce papaya Willie McKemieÕs description of Muy Dulce papaya is inserted. Diego Puron, a new member, wants to buy seeds or plants of acerola (barbados cherry) for the Yucatan Peninsula. Michael Gambill, a new member, lives in Arkansas, and grows fruit in his greenhouse. Brian White gives me the name of a nursery in Australia to look for Kensington Pride mango, and praises the fruit so that I think IÕve got to get it! And, a grower in Florida finds Julie mango to be tasty but disease prone. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Shugart Leo, and readers of the newsletter: I'm in Carlsbad, northern San Diego County, CA. I'm only about a mile and a half from the ocean, but the seasonal variation is much more pronounced than at many coastal locations (like Newport Beach or Coronado, for example), thanks to my being in a low spot at the mouth of a canyon. I track high and low temps, and for the last 30 days or so, I've had an average low of around 47 and an average high of around 65 (if I recall my data corectly). We had some good chilly periods in November and December, too, so we probably got a lot more chill than last year. I would guess 400-430 hours, but chill-hour estimation is not very scientific. Anyway, now it has been warm (high 60s, up to 83 one day) for a few weeks (though still mid-40s at night) and a lot of stuff is blooming. I have a Flavor Queen pluot that has been growing in SD for about 3 years now (at my location for about one) and is in bloom! Pluots--for the uninitiated--are 75% plum and 25% apricot, dveloped by Floyd Zaiger, extremely sweet, and supposedly need 500-660 chill hours. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the blooms will result in fruit, as pluots would indeed be rare fruit for coastal San Diego County! Another pluot, Flavor Supreme appears to be about to bloom, too, while the Japanese Green Gage and Beauty plums are already in full bloom. The Roayl apricot has its flower buds red and swelling. No sign of 'waking up" yet on the Mariposa and Santa Rosa plums, though a few buds are swelling on Satsuma and on an old apricot that I believe is a Newcastle (not to be confused--as it often is--with the low-chill Early Newcastle). And, another "rare" fruit, the Mesch Mesch Amrah black apricot (Prunus dasycarpa, probably, which is a natural plum-apricot hybrid) is in the midst of an absolutely profuse bloom. It is from Libya, so I took a chance that it would not need much chill, and its early full bloom would appear to bear out that hunch. I'll report back about the fruit in later months. I've got lots of bees this spring, so pollination should not be a problem. Just, please, no heavy spring rains! And not too much of that "June gloom." (And, after months of begging for temps in the low 40s, now I'm worried that the continued low temps are going to affect the formation of the fruit embryos--and keep my mangoes from setting. But that's the subject for another musing some day...) By the way, while we get pretty good chill for a coastal spot, we do not freeze. So, I'm hoping to get some fruit on my bananas this year, too! Best, Matthew ***************************************************************** "Pay day came, and with it a beer"--Rudyard Kipling ***************************************************************** Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 Leo, In reference to the fellow in Florida asking about pistachios and low chill kiwifruit, Elmwood is another kiwifruit cultivar that seems to do well in southern California. I also have a not yet published Fruit Fact on Pistachio that I can e-meil to anyone who wants a preliminary copy. But pistachio needs more winter chill than it is likely to get in South Florida. Don Gholston -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:53:39 -0500 From: Patricia A Cherundolo Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 Hi Leo, Here's some responses to your letter. Everyone I've met here in Florida think the Carie mango is the best tasting. As for pistachios, someone in south Florida is raising them. They had them for sale, but refused to sell more because they looked like some tree that had poisonous nuts on them and didn't want to be liable for someone dying and blaming them. Don't ask. Anyway, they had nuts on their trees and grew more pistachios from them. I had a friend here in Central FL tried pistachos and felt it was too wet for them. Got pretty much nothing for his efforts. Pears, peaches, plums, etc - there are some for Florida. The lowest number of cold hours I've seen is 75 hours. You can get them at Home Depot, White Rose, or other nurseries around Florida. Also nut trees. Pecans for sure, but they apparently are alternate year bearers here. Since all those trees I mentioned do loose their leaves, they'd probably have a hard time in South FLorida. But you can never tell. Patty -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Griffin Subject: Rare Fruit : Imbe, Wampi, Females, Cashew?? Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:00:27 GMT Got an old shrub whose name I forgot - branches grow in whorls of 3 - very unusual, s.b. diagnostic. Anybody know if it's a wampi or imbe (no refs handy)? I have several fruits that are clearly male (including above): anyone know of nurseries that will ship guaranteed females of various fruits? In a wild foray thru a plant sale, I got a "red cashew". What will be different from any other cashew (i.e., WHAT's red?) It's presently denuded (35F nite last month). Thanks - Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:44:52 -0600 (CST) From: Harry W. Mazal OBE Dear friends, Willie McKemie had asked that I forward his article (see below) to your mailing list. This was not done until we had the dates fixed for the days that the Moy Dulce papayas would go on sale. These dates have now been fixed. Fully-sexed Moy Dulce 1 papayas will be available in 2 gallon cans. Full planting instructions are included with each sale. Although Moy Dulce Papayas are tropicals and will perish after a freeze, they have been engineeered to produce large quantities of fruit in a single growing season. In 1996, Will and Gretchen Ryals of New Braunfels produced 72 fruits from a single Moy Dulce female. 59 of these were harvested, of which 19 were fully ripened. The largest ripe papaya weighed 5.1 pounds, with an average weight of 4.4 pounds per ripe papaya. Forty papayas werre harvested green and used as vegetables. The average green papaya weighed 2.2 pounds. Green papayas are a favorite vegetable in the Asian community. Recipies for both green and ripe papayas will be available at both sales events. EARLY BIRD PLANT SALE When: Thursday and Friday March 20 and 21, 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM Plant Sales Information: (210) 829-5100 VIVA BOTANICA PLANT SALE* When: Saturday and Sunday April 12 and 13, 10:00 A.M. to 6:00 PM Where: San Antonio Botanical Gardens (Carriage House Gate) 555 Funston, San Antonio, TX 78209 *Viva Botanica! is the annual Family Garden Fair organized by the San Antonio Botanical Society. All proceeds derived from this event are used to beautify the gardens. Apart from plant sales, Viva Botanica! offers music, food, entertainment, children's activities, crafts, etc. Spaces for plant vendors are still available. For information, please call Libby Bishop (Chairman) or Gloria Duke Richter (Development Director) at (210) 829-5360 I would be very interested in participating in your mailing list. Thank you, and kindest regards, Harry W. Mazal ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leo's question: What is Moy Dulce papaya? There is a papaya enthusiast/breeder in San Antonio named Moy. He has developed the variety: "Moy Dulce 1". The San Antonio Botanical Society has for several years sold 1 to 3 gallon plants in the early spring as a fund raising activity. I grew 10 of these during the 1995 season. This variety looks promising for areas south of mine or for those willing to provide some protection. My plants produced about 10lb of fruit each before they froze. I estimate that they would have produced between 50 and 100 pounds each had they had another month or so. I had 6 females and two males survive until the freeze. I planted them 10 feet apart in my orchard, interplanted with 1st year persimmons; my thinking was that they might make a good 1st year cash crop in a peach or other fruit tree orchard. Following is part of a published description of the variety. Papayas are normally perennial evergreen tropical fruit trees. Originally native to tropical America, they are now cultivated throughout the tropical and sub-tropical areas of the world. Because San Antonio is at the northern edge of the subtropics, most papayas will not ripen in ths area unless some genetic adaptations are made. Since climatic conditions cannot be changed, a hybrid has been developed that will tolerate some cool weather, but more important, one that has a short growing season. These changes allow "Moy Dulce 1" to be treated as an annual. Many varieties of papaya will grow strongly in San Antonio's hot summer, and might even set fruit. These, unfortunately, do not usually have time to mature befoe the first frost. The "Moy Dulce 1" hybrid will not only set large quantities of fruit but will, if properly cared for, allow for ripe papayas to pe picked from around the middle of September until the first major frost. In the San Antonio Botanical Gardens one plant of this fariety has set over fifty fruits in a single growing season, many of which ripened perfectly before the first frost in late November. A short-lived, fast growing woody herbvaceous tree, "Moy Dulce 1" is a semi-dwarf variety growing to 10 or 12 feet in a single season. It has straight, smooth trunk with scarring at the points where leaf stalks have fallen off or been removed. Each leaf is borne on a long, rigid leaf stem. Smaller leaves will appear in the crotch of the large stems, or at the scars where a stem has fallen off. "Moy Dulce 1" is a dioecious variety; it bears male and female flowers on separate trees, and requires at least one of each to produce. In other words, neither the female nor the male tree can produce fruit by themselves. A single male tree is sufficient for pollinating up to 24 females, but a ratio of one male to five females is preferred. Male flowers are waxy, fleshy and fragrant. They are borne on long, spectacular stalks up to 3 feet long with clusters of lovely yellow flowers. The female flower is borne on a short stalk, and is much larger than the male flower. It is creamy white with bright yellow anthers. Two smaller female flowers will often appear on either side of a larger female, and thse will also set fruit. Bees, other insects and hummingbirds are the most common pollinators. Hand pollinations is also possible, albeit tedious. The fruit of "Moy Dulce 1" has a thin delicate, leather skin covering a yellow fruit not unlike a melon. Inside the fruit is a large cavity with many small seeds. The seeds are sometimes used as a pepper substitue, and are often used to adulterate black pepper. The seeds produced by the "Moy Dulce 1" are from a hybrid plant and will not bear true if planted. This variety produces large fruits of two to four pounds, the larger ones being borne closest to the ground. As the tree grows taller and older, the papayas at the top will be smaller. Fruit is sweeter when allowed to ripen on the tree, with 75-80% of the skin showing a yellow color. Under good conditions, the tree will produce two to four ripe papayas each week. Fruit will usually be ripe five months after setting. I have only the home phone number for the Botanical Society contact. I will not post that publicly without permission. For those interested in trying the Moy Dulce: To the best of my knowledge, seed has not been distributed to other than the Botanical Society and I don't believe that the Society is willing to ship plants. The plants are very fragile and would probably not ship well. As I recall, the price of the 1995 one gallon plants was $10 or $12. The fruit from my plants was very similair to what is sold in grocery stores as "Mexican" papaya. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diego Puron Subject: Acerola Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 18:51:52 -0600 Hallo: I am interested in acerola (Barbados cherry). I would like to grow in the Yucatan Peninsula. Do you know where i could get seeds or plants? Thanks for your help. Diego Puron ------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:11:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Rare Fruit From: Michael Gambill Count me in on your group. It sounds like a great idea. I grow several fruits. I live in Greenbrier, Arkansas so the outdoor fruit are for temperate climates but I grow several kinds of fruit in my greenhouse. I also travel back and forth to work with a medical clinic in Mexico. I have planted several trees there as well. I too am a member of CRFG. Another Fruit, Michael Gambill -------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:20:13 +1000 From: Brian White To: Leo Manuel Subject: Kensington Hi Leo Try these people for a Kensington Pride mango. If they can't help you, email me back. BIRDWOOD NURSERY Peter & Sandra Young 71-83 Blackall Range Road Nambour 4560. Wholesale growers of fully containerised bench grown tropical/sub-tropical fruit trees and vines including exotics. QDPI accredited soil pathogen free to all states and overseas. Ph: +61 754 421 611 Fax: +61 754 421 053 Mobile: +61 18 715 994 I have found that Kensingtons do not crop so well outside of the tropics, but here in SE Queensland, the crops are of a small number of large fruit. We ate our last here last week, and it was delicious. Worth crawling over broken glass for :) Things that make mangoes crop are reduced water, or low temperature. Ethylene will also induce flowering - in the wet tropics, this can be achieved by smoking the tree - ie burning the leaves that accumulate under the tree. Also, Alar (PP333 - paclobutrazol)- a growth substance may be used to induce flowering if all else fails. Cheers Brian. ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:54:57 +0000 Subject: Dwarf Mango? In a thread to a posting I made asking about dwarf mangos, there was this response: ...one variety that is somewhat "dwarfish" in its growing habits is "Julie." It doesn't do all that well in Florida, where the anthracnose is pretty hard on it. I've heard it does well in places like Jamaica, though. And, though small, the fruit is well liked. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - March 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 ------------------------------ There are several of you who grow rare fruit, but you havenÕt told us much about your experiences. Would you consider a topic for discussion the following: What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. HereÕs what you will find in the current issue: 1. Trudy, in Florida. What she grows and what sheÕd like to find. 2. Richard Burkett, San Diego, asking about Carrie mango. 3. LeoÕs reply to Richard. (Please send your opinion, as well.) 4. Don Gholston ask what your experience in growing Jackfruit. 5. Ian Staples clarifies mango name: Bowan - Bowen - Kensington Pride 6. Daniel K. Duprey likes Julie mango as a dwarf variety. 7. Ian raises an important question of seedlings of polyembronic mangoes. Leo hopes everyone who knows anything about this will respond, as it is a concern of his. 8. Robert G. Barbour may be looking for our newsletter? and... 9. Mario Lozano: ŌAcerolas do not produce well from seedlings....Ķ ----------------------------------- From: Trudy Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: Rare fruit I just came across this idea and I think it's great. I live in central Florida and grow citrus, guavas, surinam cherry, loquat, bananas, pineapples and I'm looking for tropical fruit seeds. Especially miracle fruit Thanks Trudy ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:26:39 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Burkett (San Diego) Subject: Re:Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 Leo, I checked with Pacific Tree farms the other day, asking about mangoes. They were currently out of the tree that they suggested as a relatively compact, fiber free mango - the variety "Carrie." They also mentioned "Julie" as a possibility, but that it might have more problem with disease. Anyone know more about the Carrie variety of mango? Is this indeed the best tree for the Southern California coastal areas? The Carrie variety will be in stock again in April, they say, and I'm looking forward to having mangoes. Thanks, Richard Burkett --------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 11:54:13 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Richard Burkett Carrie is great and one of the favorites in Florida. I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be very good here, as well. Florida's humidity causes more problems than we would experience, at least for some diseases. I'm going to be looking for a Carrie in the near future, for myself. I also expect that Julie would have fewer problems in San Diego than in Florida. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Message-ID: <970307131029_-1674046263@emout20.mail.aol.com> Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 Leo, Maybe some of the participants in Rare Fruit News Online in Florida (or elsewhere) have had experience in growing and fruiting Jackfruit. If so, I would like to hear about it. I am interested in cultural details, such as fertilizing, pruning, pests and diseases, etc. I am hoping to scare up enough first hand information on the fruit to write a piece for the Fruit Gardener as part of our Fruit of the Year: Mulberry. Yeah, I know Jackfruit is a bit of a stretch, but they are in the same family. Thanks and regards. Don Gholston ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 08:09:16 +0000 Subject: Dwarf Mango? From: Ian Staples (Rob Logie) writes: >The main wild mango here are the bowan mango. A bowan tree will >grow huge ! (>15 Meters high and wide). ... Just in nitpicking mode. :-) For "bowan" read "Bowen" -- the town in north Queensland [closer to the central coast in fact, for those aliens reaching for their atlases] where the variety was first popularised. It's now sold mostly under the name Kensington Pride, which may have been its official name at some earlier time before we Queenslanders knew it as the Bowen mango. > ... One I have is one from Vietnam grafted onto >a bowan stock. I think it is called a "Nam-Doc" (Nam-Doc-Mai)? >(I lost the card !) These grafted mango's are a >bit nicer than the bowen mango's. Now in *very* serious mode. :^) No one could *possibly* prefer another variety to the Bowen! (Kensington Pride)-- Clean your keyboard immediately, Rob. Cheers, Ian S. -------------------------------- Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? From: Daniel K. Duprey Date: 1997/02/24 Sorry, I didn't see the original posting, but one variety that is somewhat "dwarfish" in its growing habits is "Julie." It doesn't do all that well in Florida, where the anthracnose is pretty hard on it. I've heard it does well in places like Jamaica, though. And, though small, the fruit is well liked. Daniel K. Duprey ----------------------- Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? From: Ian Staples Date: 1997/02/19 Brian White writes: >Some mango trees do grow smaller than others. The main commercial >variety here in Australia is known as Kensington Pride. To my palate, >this variety is superior in every way to most others available here. We >get Carabao mangoes, and indian mangoes here from time to time, and none >can hold a candle to our mainstay variety. And I hope Rob Logie read this too! :-) >Its seeds are polyembryonic, of which only one embryo is usually the >result of sexual reproduction. The remaining embryos are usually >asexual - ie clones of the mother plant. The *big* question is, how do I know which is the one I don't want? Some folk say it's the biggest of the batch (which I could swallow, on the basis of hybrid vigour) and others say it's the runt. As one who can never win a raffle, and who invariably weeds out *all* the female pawpaw seedlings, this distinction is a serious matter. Cheers, Ian S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: Mario Lozano Please forward this message to Diego Puron: I understand that he is intersted in Acerola plants or seeds. Acerolas do not produce well from seedlings, often producing small inferior fruits. They are much better propagated by air layers or hardwood cuttings under mist. I have a lot (more than 300) Acerola plants, propagated from cuttings, in small pots, ready for shipping. They are from a very good variety, that I have growing on my yard. It produces numerous crops of very large mildly tart fruit, very good for eating out of hand or for making juice. If he is interested please E- Mail me at Cucho@aol.com Best Regards, Mario Lozano ------------------------------- From: Robert G. Barbour To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Rare Fruit Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:10:35 -0500 (EST) I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. 2. Detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Robert G. Barbour -------------------------- From: Mario Lozano To: leom@rarefruit.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) Please forward this message to Diego Puron: I understand that he is intersted in Acerola plants or seeds. Acerolas do not produce well from seedlings, often producing small inferior fruits. They are much better propagated by air layers or hardwood cuttings under mist. I have a lot (more than 300) Acerola plants, propagated from cuttings, in small pots, ready for shipping. They are from a very good variety, that I have growing on my yard. It produces numerous crops of very large mildly tart fruit, very good for eating out of hand or for making juice. If he is interested please E- Mail me at Cucho@aol.com Best Regards, Mario Lozano >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - March 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07 It was exciting and rewarding to put this issue together. The number of people on the mailing list is over three dozen, and growing. It has taken a lot more time, mostly because I keep re-reading the mail! Im beginning to neglect some of my garden tasks, so Ive got to go on some sort of computer-access-restricting diet. I need to revise my web page, to show that the proposed newsletter is now a fact. I dread the prospect of getting back into HTML. If you have suggestions for this newsletter, pass them on. If you want to answer questions that are raised, send the reply to me and Ill forward it. Unless you especially want your e-mail address published, I will remove it from the newsletters. If you want to receive back issues of Rare Fruit News Online, let me know. Also, if you have e-mail size limits, let me know what they are. This seventh issue of 1997 alone is about 78! Then there was 1996.... And, above all, when questions are asked, even if someone else has provided an opinion, send your opinion. Maybe your suggestions or answers will be the same as those given by someone else. There is comfort in numbers. Like going to a doctor for a second or third or ... opinion. Maybe your response will be different. Lets hear it. So far, the group seems congenial, and I expect that it will continue to be so. -- Its interesting to see the bloom cycle of the various deciduous fruit trees. Some have fruit as large as a hens egg while others of the same type are in full bloom, with fruit set coming later. In one case, both trees cited are nectarine, but its true for some peaches, as well. The fruit set for peach, plum, apricot, and nectarine seems higher this year. Thornless blackberries are beginning to bloom....What a perfect time of year! Leo ------------------------------------------- The contents of Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07: 1. Don Gholston and source for Hardy Kiwifruit Trellis 2. Richard Cline and deciduous fruit trees 3. Brian White, an introduction, and an offer for fruit information resources 4. Leo and a response to BrianÕs e-mail 5. Brian and additional information 6. Ed Gribble is home again 7. Oliver Patterson and a response to TrudyÕs request 8. Brian White and Miracle Fruit 9. LeoÕs brief response to Brian - Miracle Fruit 10. Abilio and seed information. Also JPGÕs (by request to Leo) 11. Daniel K. Duprey with questions about the newsletter 12. LeoÕs response to DanielÕs e-mail 13. Diane Chamberlain writes to Trudy and Robert Barbour 14. Bob Stone and a request to receive the newsletter 15. Bob Stone and responses to last newsletter 16. Bob Stone and information about his operation 17. Eddie munoz and questions: How to deal with water shortage? 18. LeoÕs response to Eddie, followed by additional information from Eddie 19. Paul Hagstedt with a request to receive the newsletters and a reply by Leo 20. Bob Stone and a lengthy response to items in all previous newsletters 21. Diane with additional information to Trudy 22. Bob Stone and enthusiasm for growing rare fruit and spreading the word 23. Trudy likes DianeÕs information. 24. Daniel Duprey considers a move to California - depending... 25. Leo responds to DanÕs questions. 26. What controls the Giant White Fly? A friend of mine needs to know 27. Jordi from Barcelona as a possible ŌsubscriberĶ 28. Raymond N. Gerlach is changing his e-mail address 29. Dick Gross retired in Phoenix: How do you handle seeds of black sapote? Dick discusses his seedling mango tree in Phoenix and asks to be on our mailing list. 31. David Rack becomes number forty on the mailing list of Rare Fruit Newsletter! 32. Moshe Nadler wrote in February, but I may not have included his letter earlier. Moshe is in Puerto Rico, with rare fruit credentials that are the envy of us all! He sends the name of a fellow agronomist for our list. (#41!) ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 >From Rare Fruit News 3/20/97 >I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. Your best bets at this point are: alt.agriculture.fruit or sci.agriculture.fruit >2. Some detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. >Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Our CRFG Fruit Fact on Hardy Kiwifruit that is part of the Fruit Fact section of our web site: http://www.crfg.org/ has information on such a trellis. If you haven't visited this site, you really should for all the other good stuff posted there. Don Gholston Californiia Rare Fruit Growers -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:36:32 -0800 From: Richard Cline Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. The same deciduous trees have done well for me. I have a Bosc pear that fruited the first two years after planting. Last year there was nothing. I'm still hopeful that it will produce 50% of the time. The fruit was large and flavorful. Asian Pears seem to bear fruit. However the varities I've encountered that grow vigorously seem to have poor flavor. Dick ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:00:21 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Rare Fruit Leo, by the way, my personal details. I am a 31 year old Ag scientist, living in Ipswich, Queensland Australia. The climate here is subtropical. I have been interested in rare fruits for years, and there are some excellent volumes on tropical fruit available from our state Department of Primary Industries (DPI). I would be happy to scan and send a booklist, if anyone is interested. My experience stems from a rare fruit orchard I planted in 1988 on my parents small farm outside of Brisbane. We have four varieties of lychees; longans; three varieties of pomello; limes; meyer lemons (my favourite lemon); four varieties of avocado (all guatemalan types; Kensington Pride, Common, R2E2 and Florigon mangoes; three varieties of carambolas; black sapotes; white sapotes; mandarins; bananas; pecan nuts; red mombins; mulberries; ice cream beans; tamarinds; and miracle fruit. Whew! This means that at any time of the year, we can wander through a little garden of eden and munch, munch, munch. Being a trivia and information hound, I have some truly excellent books also. You might like to visit my website on http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hewlett Cheers Brian White --------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:39:47 +0000 To: Brian Hello, Brian. Thanks for the offer to send the information on material on tropical fruit. I'm sure the information will be of interest so the other rare fruit growers on the list, and know that I am interested. I'd also be interested in knowing the names of the varieties of lychee, longan, etc., that you have. I also have an Ice Cream Bean tree, and what a rapid grower it is. It's in my front yard, and in the 5 years since I planted it, it's grown from maybe 5 feet tall to 20 feet or so. Also, it's begun to have beans, and I have to clean up around it periodically. It is a beautiful tree, though. The Kensington Pride mango is one I'm looking for, locally, if possible. I haven't heard of the R2E2 or Florigon mangoes. What's the fruit like from the red mombin? I did visit your interesting web site. Hoping to hear more from you! Leo ---------------------------------------- From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit Red mombin is a distant relative of the mango, and tastes fairly sour - a bit worse than an isabella grape, but with lots of mucilage and a big seed. I think they are pretty awful, but my mother loves them. No accounting for taste. R2E2 is like a mutant Kensington Pride, and is even better that that famous variety. It has almost no fibre, and the fruit tend to weigh 500g-1kg+. Excellent taste and texture. If you want a big bellyful of beautiful mango, then eat one of these. Developed by the Queensland DPI. Florigon is a US variety, suited to cooler climates. It is a later bearer, and should be a viable way of extending the mango season. Beautiful peach like flesh, but not such a prolific bearer here. I will contact the DPI and get them to send a current book list. I will scan the relevant pages and email to you as JPEG files. The Lychees we have are Kwai Mai Pink, Wai Chee, No Mai Chee, and Tai So. Wai Chee is the best performer here, and also my favourite lychee. The longan we have is possibly a seedling, and is a patchy bearer in Southern Queensland. We used to live in Cairns, North Queensland, 2000 km closer to the equator, and we had a lychee tree around 80 years old in our back yard. Every second year, we could collect around 200lb of fruit from this tree. Now that was paradise. Lychees and longans do play havoc with the digestive tract, when eaten in quantities like that, but hey, what a way to "go". I would have to say I would prefer to sit down to a few kg of lychees than an equivalent weight of prawns or lobster, any day. I forgot some fruit, when I made the list. We also have some muscat grapes and papayas - yellow and red varieties. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:39:14 -0800 From: Ed Subject: Home again Hi Leo, We have now returned from our trip to New Zealand-Australia after seven weeks, which is too long for one night stands-living out of a suitcase, but was enjoyable anyway. Saw a lot of tropical plants as you can imagine, particularly in Northern Australia around Darwin and Cairns. We returned to a yard full of weeds, which will occupy our time for a while, but also a yard in bloom. Everything it seems hardly missed us at all! My bananas all have new growth after the heavy rains and wind damage in January. My papayas look a little sad, but have new growth so believe they are OK. Some completely lost all their leaves, but the trunks remain green. The nursery man says not to worry since they sometimes do this, like plumeria will do, so will see. All the citrus are going great. Thanks again for including me in your e-mail. Ed --------------------------------------------- From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:45:00 -0500 Please forward this message, Leo: Hello Trudy, There is a club in central Florida called "The Tropical Fruit Club of Central Florida" that can provide you with plenty of miracle fruit seeds, as well as many other kinds of seeds. It holds a plant raffle at the end of every meeting, which is a cheap and easy way to obtain all kinds of tropical fruit trees. The club meets the third Monday of every month at Leu Gardens, which is near Winter Park in Orlando. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. and lasts for about two hours. I encourage you to check it out. If you have any questions about the club or tropical fruit growing in central Florida, please send me some e-mail (olliep@gate.net). I live a few miles north of Orlando and I grow all of the trees you mention except the Surinam cherry (I'm eager to get one). Sincerely, Oliver Patterson -------------------------------------- 20 Mar 1997 19:49:48 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:51:01 +1000 From: Brian White Thank you for your last email, always interesting to read about other people's experiences with growing and eating rare fruit. On everyone's list of memorable rare fruit experience should be the "miracle fruit" (Synsepalum dulcificum)of Ghana. Is this a new one on you guys, or can we compare miracle fruit taste alteration experiences? I know a lot about this little tree, and am just about to take this years harvest of about twenty or so berries, to amaze a few new people. This stuff changes your taste perception of acid foods, to make them taste sweet. A very source substance becomes just as intensely sweet. If you have ever wanted to sip vinegar like a fine port wine, then this is the fruit to taste. Enjoy grapefruit like never before. The subtle sour taste is converted to a subtle sweet musk, which certainly makes the humble grapefruit the king of all fruits. This is a tree worth building a greenhouse for - if you are unfortunate enough not to live in the tropics or subtropics. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:52:34 +0000 To: Brian White ... Years ago in Hawaii I got a taste of the miracle fruit, and it is appropriately named! I know it's grown in Florida, maybe in California. I haven't tried. Is it pretty slow growing? I'll be interested in what our feedback from readers is. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:36:09 +-100 Hello Leo and Hello every body I this moment the botanic subject that interesse mi is who i can arrange and buy tropical and exotic seeds and muds trees. In the last days i buy to the international seeds company this list of tropical seeds i dont know if they are good. 1705 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea - saman. 5 seeds $3.00 Sacred Japanese Cedar cryptomeria japonica. 5 seeds $2.00 1714 Baobab; Lemonade; Monkeybread Tree . 2 seeds $3.50 1774 Indian Arrowroot euonymus. 15 seeds $1.95 4503 Coffee Plant coffea arabica . 5 seeds $2.00 2203 Golden Yellow Papaya carica papaya . 10 seeds $1.95 2204 Paw Paw Tree asimina triloba . 3 seeds $2.00 2205 Mountain Papaya carica pubescens . 5 seeds $2.50 2209 Chinese Hackberry celtis sinensis . 10 seeds $2.00 2221 Macadamia Nut Tree intergrifolia. $0.95 per seed 2255 Chinese Jujube zizyphus . 5 seeds $1.95 2289 Hawiian Solo Papaya carcia . 6 seeds $1.95 2291 Waimanolo Papaya carica waimanolo . 6 seeds $1.95 2294 Horseradish Tree moringa . 5 seeds $1.95 G061 Black Pepper piper nigrum. 5 seeds $2.50 1107 Flowering Banana musa. . 5 seeds $3.00 1143 Seagrapes coccoloba uvilfera. . 5 seeds $1.95 H423 Indian Arrowroot euonymu. 15 seeds $1.95 CM220 Xi-Yang-Shen panax quinquefolia (ginseng). 10 seeds $2.50 NW26 Heavenly Bamboo nandina domestica. 10 seeds $1.50 9601 Indian Rosewood dalbergia latifolia. 5 seeds $3.00 9603 Mexican Blue Palm brahea armata. 5 seeds $3.00 9608 Sealing Wax Palm cyrtostachys lakka. 5 seeds $3.50 9611 Derris Robusta. 5 seeds $3.00 9612 Ylang Ylang Tree cananga odorata. 5 seeds $3.50 9613 Potato Tree solanum macranthum. 5 seeds $2.50 9615 Sacred Water Lily nelumbo nucifera. 3 seeds $2.50 9617 Perfume Flower Tree fagrea berteriana. 5 seeds $2.50 9619 Butterfly Tree bauhinia purpurea. 5 seeds $2.50 9637 Amazing Climbing Palm desmoncus schippii. 3 seeds $2.50 9638 Gooseberry Tree phyllanthus acidus. 5 seeds $2.50 9640 Gum Arabic acacia senegal . 3 seeds $2.50 P11 Silver Saw Palm acoelorrhaphe wrightii.10 seeds $2.25 P16 Queen Palm syagrus romanzoffiana. 10 seeds $2.25 P18 Traveller's Palm ravenalamad agascarie. 5 seeds $2.25 P20 Poneytail Palm beaucarnia strict. 5 seeds $2.25 P24 Butterfly Palm (Golden Cane Palm) areca lutescens. 10 seeds $2.25 P30 Parlor Palm neantha bella. 10 seeds $2.50 P41 Sabal Palmetto sabal palmetto. 10 seeds $2.25 P49 King Palm (Alexander Palm ) archontophoenix alexandrae. 10 seeds $2.25 P52 Jelly Palm butea capitata. 2 seeds $2.50 P60 Mexican Cycad dioon edule. 3 seeds $3.50 P63 Panama Hat Palm carludovica palmata. 5 seeds $2.50 P75 Mexican Fan Palm (Sky Duster) washington robusta. 10 seeds $2. 2911 Golden Rain Tree koelreuteria. 8 seeds $2.75 2914 African Tulip Tree spathodea. 20 seeds $1.95 2942 Elephant Ear Acacia acacia dunnii. 3 seeds $1.95 2970 South American Mahogany swietenia. 10 seeds $1.90 2980 Flame of the Forest delonix regia. 10 seeds $2.50 SO154 Cashew Nut anacardium. 3 seeds $2.50 SO173 Amazon Grape Tree myrciara. 2 seeds $2.75 SO350 Indian Banyan Tree ficus benghalensis. 8 seeds $2.50 SO488 Red Sandal Wood Tree adenanthera. 5 seeds $2.50 SO489 Candlenut Tree aleurites. 2 seeds $2.00 SO545 Gourd Tree cujete. 5 seeds $2.50 7821 Camphor Tree cinnamomum camphor. 8 seeds $1.95 VH562 Giant Pink Banana5 seeds $1.95 4598 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea saman. 5 seeds $3.00 I dont have talk because i dont have nothing important to speak but i follow atention yours mails. A nother hobby of me is to colect 19 century hander books manuals of tropical agriculture and exotic plants.Spanish,Portuguese,Brasilien,French,English. Is this mi botanical knowledge. I you want to know or see someting tell me. About Jack fruit see this: (Leos note: Several interesting graphic files attached. Ill forward them to anyone who emails a request to receive them.) -------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I was pleasantly surprised to receive Rare Fruit News Online. I'm a little curious about it. Was it a one-shot deal? Did you pull the postings from one source or several (I don't remember where I posted my own contribution)? If I want to reply to one of the postings in the newsletter, do I send my reply to you? Or to where? Are you doing this on your own? And is it very labor-intensive? Yours in year-around aestivation, Dan Duprey --------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:30:55 +0000 To: Daniel K. Duprey Dan, I got your name from a posting on mangoes, as I recall. It was a response to a question I had raised, probably, about what is known about dwarf mangoes. Maybe it was a response to a reply, discussing Bowen mangoes. I'm not sure, but I took a chance. It doesn't take any more work to send to more people. (There are almost 3 dozen names on the list so far. I started it last fall, believing there was a need. It will continue until you ask me to stop. If you reply to a posting, I'd like for you to send it to me. I'll immediately forward it, and put a copy into the folder of items for the next newsletter. There have been two letters sent per month this year. If you prefer that the reply NOT go out to everyone, I'll respect your wishes. I will send you a copy of the past issues, if you like. It would be easy to attach it to an e-mail, or copy into the e-mail. I'm doing it on my own, and it's not labor-intensive at all. So far, everyone seems to be friendly, with no flaming mail. Let me know if you want back issues. Leo -------------------------------- Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:27:09 -0500 From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Hi Leo, For Trudy, Do you know about the tropical fruit clubs in Florida? There are lots of them, they have regular meetings with rare fruit enthusiasts galore, have regular sales, most do newsletters, have members willing to share seeds, and bring you to a new level of rare fruit mania. There are quite a few, so if you let me know where in central Florida you live, I can let you know the closest one. For Robert Barbour, I don't know of any newsgroups solely for rare fruit, but there are 2 on fruit, including rare. They are: alt.agriculture.fruit & sci.agriculture.fruit There is also bionet.biology.tropical which is ALL biology of the tropics, but when there is info on rare fruit...... it's wonderful. Diane -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:13:59 PST From: Bob Stone Good morning- Diane Chamberlain suggested I write to you about your newsletter. We are both members of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council, in Manatee county, Florida. I would appreciate being added to your mail list. Bob Stone -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:21:06 PST From: Bob Stone Thank you for the prompt reply. I would like the back issues, but I am fairly new at this e-mail stuff. I don't know if I can receive attached files with Juno, so for the time being it would be best to send them in the body of the E-mail text. For Trudy. My miracle fruit is just showing flower buds. Seeds will be available when the fruit ripens. Because I don't know when to quit I have many more trees than I can set out in the ground, therefor, I have most of them in containers. I feel that I get fewer and smaller fruits as a result, but that is better than no fruit at all. For Don Gholston: The California Rare Fruit Growers society is on line at http://www.crfg.org - They have available information sheets called Fruit Facts, which you can access and print. The one on Jackfruit is two pages long and has bare bones information. More later, Bob --------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:12:20 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- Thank you for all of the back issues. I have printed them out so I can read them and perhaps make comments. I have been growing tropical fruits trees for nine or ten years. Most are in containers, since our lot is only 75 x 150 feet.. i have a greenhouse and a potting shed. At the beginning of winter I move as many one and two gallon pots as possible into the greenhouse on double decker shelves. When dangerously cold weather threatens I move as many 3,7,and 10 gallon plants as possible into the aisle. By stacking them I can store 100 pots there. The larger trees are laid down (stacked) on the ground, then covered with used window draperies rescued from a drapery shop dumpster. The drapes are clipped together at the seams with spring type clothespins. So far there has been a minimum of cold damage using this system. One thing I have learned is not to discard any tree that seems to be dead until at least three months after the freeze. It often takes that long for them to start sprouting new growth. Here comes the commercial; The Manatee Rare Fruit Council will have its annual tree sale on Sunday, May 18th, fom ten to four. It will be held at the Manatee Civic Center on Route 41 in Palmetto. Participating nurseries will bring over 3,000 trees, offering a wide selection. If someone needs more specific directions I can post them here on request. Bob Stone ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 From: Eddie munoz How far inland do you live? How often to you get winter frost/freezes? I live in Rainbow, Ca. on 20 acres. I wish to grow rare fruit as well as not so rare fruit but I am on water wells that are tied very, very much to the amount of rainfall we get in our area. (I have had to let trees die when we've had to import water via tanker trucks) Any info on how to get water in from a reliable source? Eddie munoz ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:37 PST To: Eddie Munos I live in Rancho Penasquitos (in the city of San Diego), maybe 7-8 miles inland. This particular location hasn't had frost during the 4 1/2 years I've lived here. A few blocks away, there will be, however. I can't think of anything to help in getting additional water. Twenty acres is a lot of land to water! My lot is about one-fourth of one acre. If you generate any gray water that can be collected and used, that could keep trees alive until more water is available. You have to be careful about what detergents, etc., go into the water, however. There are booklets available, I believe, dealing with the subject. Some trees can survive but lose their fruit in long dry spells. I'm thinking of sapote (white), in particular. Mulch, of course, can help, but you probably have done as much as possible in that vein. There is, or was, a mushroom growing operation someplace in the area that has a mushroom compost that is cheap or maybe even free. Rain collected from roof downspouts can be stored, but it takes a lot of storage space and doesn't last long. I'll circulate your letter to see if anyone has other ideas. It must be very frustrating! Leo ---------------------------------- From: Eddie munoz Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 Thanks for any help. I've tried the water district but it will cost an arm and a leg to get me connected to them and of course I have to pay the whole thing. It is frustrating since we use to live on 2/3 of an acre in Pico Rivera which is a suburb of Los Angeles and of course I never had to worry about water. I had success at times with papaya, mango, guavas, and banana as well as normal stuff like citrus and avocado. We use to get a lot of frost in my area as low as 25 degrees. Eddie munoz -------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:38:32 +0100 From: PAUL Hagstedt I am a lychee,annana, mamey sapote grower in South Florida.and a member of Tropical Fruit Growers of South Florida, visit my new site at lychee.com / I would be interested to be a part of your news group. Paul Hagstedt Thank you --------------------------------- To: Paul Hagstedt Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:38:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I wrote you once about ordering a lychee tree (Brewster) but haven't taken any further action, because I don't know how trees survive coming in with the severe quarantine check in California. Even if the tree is in the best of condition, if it is held for very long, it might not make it when planted. I will send you back issues of the newsletter, if you request it. Horticordially, Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Stone Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:10:19 PST Hi- I have finished reading all of the back material, and have some information on a few topics. Scott Marshall asked about Cherimoya. They grow at a higher altitude than the Sugar apple, and require some winter chill. That is why the Israelis hybridized them with the sugar apple to produce the Atemoya. I have had Cherimoyas old enough to flower, but they have not done so. I think it's too warm here in Bradenton, Florida, Zone 9. For Ed Griffin, about low chill Kiwis. If you are in Zone ten you may be near Ft.Myers. Contact the Caloosa Rare Fruit Exchange. They meet at the Extension Service building on Palm Beach Boulevard, route 80, west of I-75, exit 25. They should have the information you want, and you would benefit by joining. Roy Grear's nursery (35927 Chancey Rd. - Zephyrhills, FL 33541) has several low chill varieties of Kiwi, and may be able to supply you with what you need. I think your nameless fruit tree is an Imbe. I just checked mine, and the branches do grow in groups of three. The leaves are dark green and leathery in texture. They require male and female plants to produce heavily, but my female produces a few fruits by itself. What we need to do is to swap grafts. How are you at grafting? If these trees can be airlayered we could clone them and swap them. To Don Gholston - If you want the latest news on Jakfruit contact Fairchild Tropical Garden at 11935 Old Cutler Rd, Miami, FL, 35156 Phone 305 665-2844 Fax 305 665-8032. They have an ongoing research project on Jakfruit. They also are heavily into a study of Mango varieties, and have imported many new varieties. I have four small Jakfruit trees in containers. One has a fruit (male) about the size and shape of two joints of my little finger. There had been a smaller, round fruit, but it has fallen off. I suspect that was a female. To Robert Barbour - I can't locate the drawing, but the instructions said that Kiwis are such heavy bearers that the trellis must be very strong. They recommended 4x4 supports and 2x4 stringers. If anyone wants discriptive literature on tropical fruits, ask for Fruit Crops Fact Sheets at your friendly neighborhood Extension Service. Here's a list of the ones I have received from them ; Atemoya, Avocado, Avocado Propagation, Bananas, Black Sapote, Blueberry, Canistel, Carambola, Coconut, Eugenia Species, Fig, Guava, Jaboticaba, Chinese Jujube, Longan, Loquat, Lychee, Macadamia, Mamey Sapote, Mango, Mango Propagation, Papaya, Passionfruit, Persimmon, Pineapple, Sapodilla, Seagrape, Sugar Apple, Tamarind. Dooryard Fruits, Growing Fruit Crops in containers. Everyone should become familiar with the many rare fruit clubs. The two main ones are RARE FRUIT COUNCIL, INTERNATIONAL p o box 561914, MIAMI, fl 33256, AND CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, - THE FULLERTON AUDITORIUM, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, FULLERTON, CA 92634. They both have branches in their respective states. Contact the parent organization for the address of the chapter closest to you. If growing tropical fruits is new to you these clubs will be your best sources of information. Both parent clubs have seeds available to members. A number of my trees are seedlings from them, and many have fruited. Bob Stone ----------------------------------------- From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:19:31, -0500 For Trudy, The Tampa club's address is 313 Pruett Road, Seffner, FL 33584. The meeting place is north of I-4 before you get to 301, so Lakeland wouldn't be too far. I am a member of the Manatee club, and we meet in Palmetto, just north of Bradenton. If you can't attend any meetings, but just want a newsletter, the best is Miami's. I am the editor of the Manatee club's newsletter, and see most of the newsletters from around the state. Most of the newsletters are kind of newsy about what the individual clubs are doing. The Miami news is a magazine and most local clubs are chapters of the Miami club. The only drawbacks are that its focus is tropical and it costs $35 a year to be a member (and get their magazine) I can find out if the Tampa club has any Lakeland members, they probably do. If you are not going to focus on the sub-tropicals, but try mostly to do trees that can take the cold, then the more northerly clubs (like Tampa) have more info about that. Our Manatee club does a lot of talking about frost protection! One of the BEST magazines for a good price is the CRFG news. Even though it is California the information is great, it is pretty, and they have a great seed swap. Leo can brag about that publication! (Leo: ...and often does!) Let me know if you need more info. Diane --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:30:30 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- I'm so enthusiastic about tropical fruits that I take every opportunity to "spread the gospel". There are so many sources of information from which people can benefit that those of us who know some of the sources should make the information available. Keep up the good work. Bob ------------------------------------ From: Trudy Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Florida Clubs Thank you so much Diane. Seffner isn't that far. I may not get to every meeting if it's in the evening but at least I could make some of them. I'll check into it. Trudy ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I think what you're doing is great. And I'd be most grateful if you sent me a copy of the previous issues. By chance, are you in California? Some day I may get to the point where I can't handle Florida's humidity any more, but I never want to live where mangos don't grow....Are there parts of California where they grow well? --Dan Duprey -------------------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Duprey Yes, I live in San Diego, California, and there are places where mangos grow, but you have to learn about the micro-climates of the neighborhoods, and that isn't always easy. It's surprising that the rim of a coastal canyon, one which goes from inland to the coast, will drain frigid inland cold toward the coast, causing frost along the way. I lived in such an area before moving here. It was maybe 2 miles from the coast, near La Jolla, but winter cold could be as severe as 20 miles inland. Now, I'm about 8 miles from the coast, on a hill, and while some nearby areas get frost, I haven't in the 5 years I've been here. There are other locations with larger contiguous frost-free areas than mine. If you experience difficulties in receiving the large attachments, I will break them up and try again. Leo -------------------------------------- A friend, Don L Hickox wrote: Leo, I have a question concerning garden pests. The giant white fly is all over our yard. I've tried spraying commercial oil and soap mixtures without success. I've heard that there is a wasp that will fight these pests. I just purchased ladybugs and a beetle which are supposed to help. I also clip and dispose of the infected areas. Any tips? Take care, Don -- Don, Someone I talked to, who MAY know something about pest control, says there are several products - he mentioned three, that would help. Tempo, Pyrodon, and Maverick. He says that whichever you use should be mixed with a light horticultural oil, in the ratio of two tablespoons per gallon of spray. (I wish I could remember his name. He sprays grounds for weed and pest control for his job.) I hope you let me know what you learn. Our fruit newsgroup would like the information. This Mr. Moon may be able to buy products that we can't, because he has a commercial license. It's possible some of them aren't available for home gardeners. See you soon. Leo ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:16:10 -0700 From: Glenn Andrews Subject: hi there, Do you have any idea what would cause fruit drop on capulin cherry? My tree in the san fernando valley is flowering heavily, but after forming small fruits, most dry out and fall off before maturing. A friend in Santa Monica is having the same problem, even though he is in a much better climate area Thanks, Glenn Andrews ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:15:28 -0500 From: Raymond N. Gerlach Leo, I am in the process of moving all of my email. Would you please change my address in your directory so I don't miss any of your messages? I really enjoy your information. Thank you, Ray Gerlach ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:14:47 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Hi Leo and Betty: My name is Dick Gross retired in Phoenix from Unocal for 11 years. Your page is interesting. About 40 people around Phx have recently formed an Arizona chapter of the CRFG. I am the Sec. and put out a monthly club newsletter. My family moved to San Diego from Nebraska in 1936 and my Company transfered me to El Centro and then here in 1968. I built my own home in Paradise Hills in 1957 where I got my first taste for growing exotics on an ideal canyon lot. Here, I have a thirteen year old mango from seed which is now in full bloom in its fourth bearing year. The fruit is non-fiberous, has no formaldahyde flavor with seeds(non-viable) only an eighth of an inch thick. My inlaws still live in Chula Vista and we go there fairly frequent. Your idea is a good one but does it overlap functions of CRFG? While I have your audience, is there-do you know-any special handling for black sapote seed? Regards -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:46:03 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I consider myself mostly as a secretary receiving mail and forwarding it to the group of over three dozen growers of rare fruit. Your question about black sapote I will forward to the group and see what responses come back. I see no conflict in what this newsgroup does and anything going on with CRFG. I'd like to know more about your mango tree. What variety does it most resemble, in your estimation? It would be tempting to buy graftwood from you in June, if you are willing. I have several excellent seedlings, also. Do you want to be on the mailing list? There have been six "issues" this year, with the seventh due out April 1. Why don't I put you on and you let me know if you want to continue with it? You will be interested in knowing what group members have to say about black sapote seeds. I would guess that you would want to plant them pretty soon after removing them from the fruit, but they are so similar to persimmon, I believe, that maybe that precaution isn't necessary. I believe persimmon seeds maintain their viability for quite a while. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:13:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Thanks for your prompt reply, Leo. Conflict wasn't quite the word I had in mind, just innocent overlap. I would consider selling graftwood. Our club has made one failed attempt and I have killed several seedlings in my own attempts with no successes. I have one seedling about four months from graft size. Many of us here have had trouble maturing seedlings. I think we need to find some "wild" stock rather than Safeway "variety". My mango is about fourteen years old planted against block home with a Southern exposure. It takes our 115 degree heat without batting a leaf and went through an unusual December 29 degree freeze with only a dozen or so leaves burned near its 13 foot crown. I had a 150 watt flood on the ground beneath it, however. Do put me on the mailing list, and thank you. ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:52:46 -0500 (EST) From: David Rack I, too, am a grower of rare fruit. i live in Mar Vista and have about 68 fruit trees, vines and shrubs surrounding my house. I'd love to get involved in whatever activities you are planning. Please count me in. David --------------------------------- (Note: I think this one from Moshe may have slipped by me earlier) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:40:28 -0400 From: moshe nadler dear mr. leo! my name is moshe nadler. i'm the farm manager of fruits intl. inc. in puerto rico. we have 1500 acres of mangoes. we also have a small collection of litchi, rambutan, durian, abiu, jack fruit, etc. all of them are still in the nursery. i have a msc. degree from the hebrew univ. in jerusalem. (sub-tropical fruits). i'm interested in rare fruits and if i can buy more from you in order to have more rare fruits in our collection i will be very happy. i will also like to help you, if i can. please tell me is there is anything i can send from puerto rico to you. sincerely moshe ---------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:28:40 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Moshe Nadler I don't have anything to sell, but I am very interested in mangoes. Do you have Kensington Pride from Australia? It's a favorite there, and it is polyembronic, as well. I'd like to find a nursery who can ship into California. At least, I'd like to find seeds from Kensington Pride. I will publish your letter in my newsletter, and maybe someone will have information for you. Do you want to be on the mailing list? I hope so! What varieties of mangoes do you grow and what do you especially like? What about litchi (lychee)? Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 To: Moshe Dear Moshe, I just today realized I haven't heard from you as to whether you'd like to be on our Rare Fruit News Online mailing list. I'm hoping you'll say, yes. The newsletter began last fall, with just a few interested growers. Now, there are forty growers, mostly hobbiests, who send letters for me to forward among the others on the list. I will send you the newsletter that goes out tomorrow, and you can let me know if you want to continue with it. I hope you will stay in, as your experience and education sounds invaluable. Leo ---------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 From: Moshe Nadler dear leo! please add me to your list. please add also another agronomist who works in the same address, his name is: yair aron sincerely moshe ----------------------------------- >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - April 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07 It was exciting and rewarding to put this issue together. The number of people on the mailing list is over three dozen, and growing. It has taken a lot more time, mostly because I keep re-reading the mail! Im beginning to neglect some of my garden tasks, so Ive got to go on some sort of computer-access-restricting diet. I need to revise my web page, to show that the proposed newsletter is now a fact. I dread the prospect of getting back into HTML. If you have suggestions for this newsletter, pass them on. If you want to answer questions that are raised, send the reply to me and Ill forward it. Unless you especially want your e-mail address published, I will remove it from the newsletters. If you want to receive back issues of Rare Fruit News Online, let me know. Also, if you have e-mail size limits, let me know what they are. This seventh issue of 1997 alone is about 78! Then there was 1996.... And, above all, when questions are asked, even if someone else has provided an opinion, send your opinion. Maybe your suggestions or answers will be the same as those given by someone else. There is comfort in numbers. Like going to a doctor for a second or third or ... opinion. Maybe your response will be different. Lets hear it. So far, the group seems congenial, and I expect that it will continue to be so. -- Its interesting to see the bloom cycle of the various deciduous fruit trees. Some have fruit as large as a hens egg while others of the same type are in full bloom, with fruit set coming later. In one case, both trees cited are nectarine, but its true for some peaches, as well. The fruit set for peach, plum, apricot, and nectarine seems higher this year. Thornless blackberries are beginning to bloom....What a perfect time of year! Leo ------------------------------------------- The contents of Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07: 1. Don Gholston and source for Hardy Kiwifruit Trellis 2. Richard Cline and deciduous fruit trees 3. Brian White, an introduction, and an offer for fruit information resources 4. Leo and a response to BrianÕs e-mail 5. Brian and additional information 6. Ed Gribble is home again 7. Oliver Patterson and a response to TrudyÕs request 8. Brian White and Miracle Fruit 9. LeoÕs brief response to Brian - Miracle Fruit 10. Abilio and seed information. Also JPGÕs (by request to Leo) 11. Daniel K. Duprey with questions about the newsletter 12. LeoÕs response to DanielÕs e-mail 13. Diane Chamberlain writes to Trudy and Robert Barbour 14. Bob Stone and a request to receive the newsletter 15. Bob Stone and responses to last newsletter 16. Bob Stone and information about his operation 17. Eddie munoz and questions: How to deal with water shortage? 18. LeoÕs response to Eddie, followed by additional information from Eddie 19. Paul Hagstedt with a request to receive the newsletters and a reply by Leo 20. Bob Stone and a lengthy response to items in all previous newsletters 21. Diane with additional information to Trudy 22. Bob Stone and enthusiasm for growing rare fruit and spreading the word 23. Trudy likes DianeÕs information. 24. Daniel Duprey considers a move to California - depending... 25. Leo responds to DanÕs questions. 26. What controls the Giant White Fly? A friend of mine needs to know 27. Jordi from Barcelona as a possible ŌsubscriberĶ 28. Raymond N. Gerlach is changing his e-mail address 29. Dick Gross retired in Phoenix: How do you handle seeds of black sapote? Dick discusses his seedling mango tree in Phoenix and asks to be on our mailing list. 31. David Rack becomes number forty on the mailing list of Rare Fruit Newsletter! 32. Moshe Nadler wrote in February, but I may not have included his letter earlier. Moshe is in Puerto Rico, with rare fruit credentials that are the envy of us all! He sends the name of a fellow agronomist for our list. (#41!) ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 >From Rare Fruit News 3/20/97 >I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. Your best bets at this point are: alt.agriculture.fruit or sci.agriculture.fruit >2. Some detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. >Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Our CRFG Fruit Fact on Hardy Kiwifruit that is part of the Fruit Fact section of our web site: http://www.crfg.org/ has information on such a trellis. If you haven't visited this site, you really should for all the other good stuff posted there. Don Gholston Californiia Rare Fruit Growers -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:36:32 -0800 From: Richard Cline Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. The same deciduous trees have done well for me. I have a Bosc pear that fruited the first two years after planting. Last year there was nothing. I'm still hopeful that it will produce 50% of the time. The fruit was large and flavorful. Asian Pears seem to bear fruit. However the varities I've encountered that grow vigorously seem to have poor flavor. Dick ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:00:21 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Rare Fruit Leo, by the way, my personal details. I am a 31 year old Ag scientist, living in Ipswich, Queensland Australia. The climate here is subtropical. I have been interested in rare fruits for years, and there are some excellent volumes on tropical fruit available from our state Department of Primary Industries (DPI). I would be happy to scan and send a booklist, if anyone is interested. My experience stems from a rare fruit orchard I planted in 1988 on my parents small farm outside of Brisbane. We have four varieties of lychees; longans; three varieties of pomello; limes; meyer lemons (my favourite lemon); four varieties of avocado (all guatemalan types; Kensington Pride, Common, R2E2 and Florigon mangoes; three varieties of carambolas; black sapotes; white sapotes; mandarins; bananas; pecan nuts; red mombins; mulberries; ice cream beans; tamarinds; and miracle fruit. Whew! This means that at any time of the year, we can wander through a little garden of eden and munch, munch, munch. Being a trivia and information hound, I have some truly excellent books also. You might like to visit my website on http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hewlett Cheers Brian White --------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:39:47 +0000 To: Brian Hello, Brian. Thanks for the offer to send the information on material on tropical fruit. I'm sure the information will be of interest so the other rare fruit growers on the list, and know that I am interested. I'd also be interested in knowing the names of the varieties of lychee, longan, etc., that you have. I also have an Ice Cream Bean tree, and what a rapid grower it is. It's in my front yard, and in the 5 years since I planted it, it's grown from maybe 5 feet tall to 20 feet or so. Also, it's begun to have beans, and I have to clean up around it periodically. It is a beautiful tree, though. The Kensington Pride mango is one I'm looking for, locally, if possible. I haven't heard of the R2E2 or Florigon mangoes. What's the fruit like from the red mombin? I did visit your interesting web site. Hoping to hear more from you! Leo ---------------------------------------- From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit Red mombin is a distant relative of the mango, and tastes fairly sour - a bit worse than an isabella grape, but with lots of mucilage and a big seed. I think they are pretty awful, but my mother loves them. No accounting for taste. R2E2 is like a mutant Kensington Pride, and is even better that that famous variety. It has almost no fibre, and the fruit tend to weigh 500g-1kg+. Excellent taste and texture. If you want a big bellyful of beautiful mango, then eat one of these. Developed by the Queensland DPI. Florigon is a US variety, suited to cooler climates. It is a later bearer, and should be a viable way of extending the mango season. Beautiful peach like flesh, but not such a prolific bearer here. I will contact the DPI and get them to send a current book list. I will scan the relevant pages and email to you as JPEG files. The Lychees we have are Kwai Mai Pink, Wai Chee, No Mai Chee, and Tai So. Wai Chee is the best performer here, and also my favourite lychee. The longan we have is possibly a seedling, and is a patchy bearer in Southern Queensland. We used to live in Cairns, North Queensland, 2000 km closer to the equator, and we had a lychee tree around 80 years old in our back yard. Every second year, we could collect around 200lb of fruit from this tree. Now that was paradise. Lychees and longans do play havoc with the digestive tract, when eaten in quantities like that, but hey, what a way to "go". I would have to say I would prefer to sit down to a few kg of lychees than an equivalent weight of prawns or lobster, any day. I forgot some fruit, when I made the list. We also have some muscat grapes and papayas - yellow and red varieties. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:39:14 -0800 From: Ed Subject: Home again Hi Leo, We have now returned from our trip to New Zealand-Australia after seven weeks, which is too long for one night stands-living out of a suitcase, but was enjoyable anyway. Saw a lot of tropical plants as you can imagine, particularly in Northern Australia around Darwin and Cairns. We returned to a yard full of weeds, which will occupy our time for a while, but also a yard in bloom. Everything it seems hardly missed us at all! My bananas all have new growth after the heavy rains and wind damage in January. My papayas look a little sad, but have new growth so believe they are OK. Some completely lost all their leaves, but the trunks remain green. The nursery man says not to worry since they sometimes do this, like plumeria will do, so will see. All the citrus are going great. Thanks again for including me in your e-mail. Ed --------------------------------------------- From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:45:00 -0500 Please forward this message, Leo: Hello Trudy, There is a club in central Florida called "The Tropical Fruit Club of Central Florida" that can provide you with plenty of miracle fruit seeds, as well as many other kinds of seeds. It holds a plant raffle at the end of every meeting, which is a cheap and easy way to obtain all kinds of tropical fruit trees. The club meets the third Monday of every month at Leu Gardens, which is near Winter Park in Orlando. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. and lasts for about two hours. I encourage you to check it out. If you have any questions about the club or tropical fruit growing in central Florida, please send me some e-mail (olliep@gate.net). I live a few miles north of Orlando and I grow all of the trees you mention except the Surinam cherry (I'm eager to get one). Sincerely, Oliver Patterson -------------------------------------- 20 Mar 1997 19:49:48 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:51:01 +1000 From: Brian White Thank you for your last email, always interesting to read about other people's experiences with growing and eating rare fruit. On everyone's list of memorable rare fruit experience should be the "miracle fruit" (Synsepalum dulcificum)of Ghana. Is this a new one on you guys, or can we compare miracle fruit taste alteration experiences? I know a lot about this little tree, and am just about to take this years harvest of about twenty or so berries, to amaze a few new people. This stuff changes your taste perception of acid foods, to make them taste sweet. A very source substance becomes just as intensely sweet. If you have ever wanted to sip vinegar like a fine port wine, then this is the fruit to taste. Enjoy grapefruit like never before. The subtle sour taste is converted to a subtle sweet musk, which certainly makes the humble grapefruit the king of all fruits. This is a tree worth building a greenhouse for - if you are unfortunate enough not to live in the tropics or subtropics. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:52:34 +0000 To: Brian White ... Years ago in Hawaii I got a taste of the miracle fruit, and it is appropriately named! I know it's grown in Florida, maybe in California. I haven't tried. Is it pretty slow growing? I'll be interested in what our feedback from readers is. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:36:09 +-100 Hello Leo and Hello every body I this moment the botanic subject that interesse mi is who i can arrange and buy tropical and exotic seeds and muds trees. In the last days i buy to the international seeds company this list of tropical seeds i dont know if they are good. 1705 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea - saman. 5 seeds $3.00 Sacred Japanese Cedar cryptomeria japonica. 5 seeds $2.00 1714 Baobab; Lemonade; Monkeybread Tree . 2 seeds $3.50 1774 Indian Arrowroot euonymus. 15 seeds $1.95 4503 Coffee Plant coffea arabica . 5 seeds $2.00 2203 Golden Yellow Papaya carica papaya . 10 seeds $1.95 2204 Paw Paw Tree asimina triloba . 3 seeds $2.00 2205 Mountain Papaya carica pubescens . 5 seeds $2.50 2209 Chinese Hackberry celtis sinensis . 10 seeds $2.00 2221 Macadamia Nut Tree intergrifolia. $0.95 per seed 2255 Chinese Jujube zizyphus . 5 seeds $1.95 2289 Hawiian Solo Papaya carcia . 6 seeds $1.95 2291 Waimanolo Papaya carica waimanolo . 6 seeds $1.95 2294 Horseradish Tree moringa . 5 seeds $1.95 G061 Black Pepper piper nigrum. 5 seeds $2.50 1107 Flowering Banana musa. . 5 seeds $3.00 1143 Seagrapes coccoloba uvilfera. . 5 seeds $1.95 H423 Indian Arrowroot euonymu. 15 seeds $1.95 CM220 Xi-Yang-Shen panax quinquefolia (ginseng). 10 seeds $2.50 NW26 Heavenly Bamboo nandina domestica. 10 seeds $1.50 9601 Indian Rosewood dalbergia latifolia. 5 seeds $3.00 9603 Mexican Blue Palm brahea armata. 5 seeds $3.00 9608 Sealing Wax Palm cyrtostachys lakka. 5 seeds $3.50 9611 Derris Robusta. 5 seeds $3.00 9612 Ylang Ylang Tree cananga odorata. 5 seeds $3.50 9613 Potato Tree solanum macranthum. 5 seeds $2.50 9615 Sacred Water Lily nelumbo nucifera. 3 seeds $2.50 9617 Perfume Flower Tree fagrea berteriana. 5 seeds $2.50 9619 Butterfly Tree bauhinia purpurea. 5 seeds $2.50 9637 Amazing Climbing Palm desmoncus schippii. 3 seeds $2.50 9638 Gooseberry Tree phyllanthus acidus. 5 seeds $2.50 9640 Gum Arabic acacia senegal . 3 seeds $2.50 P11 Silver Saw Palm acoelorrhaphe wrightii.10 seeds $2.25 P16 Queen Palm syagrus romanzoffiana. 10 seeds $2.25 P18 Traveller's Palm ravenalamad agascarie. 5 seeds $2.25 P20 Poneytail Palm beaucarnia strict. 5 seeds $2.25 P24 Butterfly Palm (Golden Cane Palm) areca lutescens. 10 seeds $2.25 P30 Parlor Palm neantha bella. 10 seeds $2.50 P41 Sabal Palmetto sabal palmetto. 10 seeds $2.25 P49 King Palm (Alexander Palm ) archontophoenix alexandrae. 10 seeds $2.25 P52 Jelly Palm butea capitata. 2 seeds $2.50 P60 Mexican Cycad dioon edule. 3 seeds $3.50 P63 Panama Hat Palm carludovica palmata. 5 seeds $2.50 P75 Mexican Fan Palm (Sky Duster) washington robusta. 10 seeds $2. 2911 Golden Rain Tree koelreuteria. 8 seeds $2.75 2914 African Tulip Tree spathodea. 20 seeds $1.95 2942 Elephant Ear Acacia acacia dunnii. 3 seeds $1.95 2970 South American Mahogany swietenia. 10 seeds $1.90 2980 Flame of the Forest delonix regia. 10 seeds $2.50 SO154 Cashew Nut anacardium. 3 seeds $2.50 SO173 Amazon Grape Tree myrciara. 2 seeds $2.75 SO350 Indian Banyan Tree ficus benghalensis. 8 seeds $2.50 SO488 Red Sandal Wood Tree adenanthera. 5 seeds $2.50 SO489 Candlenut Tree aleurites. 2 seeds $2.00 SO545 Gourd Tree cujete. 5 seeds $2.50 7821 Camphor Tree cinnamomum camphor. 8 seeds $1.95 VH562 Giant Pink Banana5 seeds $1.95 4598 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea saman. 5 seeds $3.00 I dont have talk because i dont have nothing important to speak but i follow atention yours mails. A nother hobby of me is to colect 19 century hander books manuals of tropical agriculture and exotic plants.Spanish,Portuguese,Brasilien,French,English. Is this mi botanical knowledge. I you want to know or see someting tell me. About Jack fruit see this: (Leos note: Several interesting graphic files attached. Ill forward them to anyone who emails a request to receive them.) -------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I was pleasantly surprised to receive Rare Fruit News Online. I'm a little curious about it. Was it a one-shot deal? Did you pull the postings from one source or several (I don't remember where I posted my own contribution)? If I want to reply to one of the postings in the newsletter, do I send my reply to you? Or to where? Are you doing this on your own? And is it very labor-intensive? Yours in year-around aestivation, Dan Duprey --------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:30:55 +0000 To: Daniel K. Duprey Dan, I got your name from a posting on mangoes, as I recall. It was a response to a question I had raised, probably, about what is known about dwarf mangoes. Maybe it was a response to a reply, discussing Bowen mangoes. I'm not sure, but I took a chance. It doesn't take any more work to send to more people. (There are almost 3 dozen names on the list so far. I started it last fall, believing there was a need. It will continue until you ask me to stop. If you reply to a posting, I'd like for you to send it to me. I'll immediately forward it, and put a copy into the folder of items for the next newsletter. There have been two letters sent per month this year. If you prefer that the reply NOT go out to everyone, I'll respect your wishes. I will send you a copy of the past issues, if you like. It would be easy to attach it to an e-mail, or copy into the e-mail. I'm doing it on my own, and it's not labor-intensive at all. So far, everyone seems to be friendly, with no flaming mail. Let me know if you want back issues. Leo -------------------------------- Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:27:09 -0500 From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Hi Leo, For Trudy, Do you know about the tropical fruit clubs in Florida? There are lots of them, they have regular meetings with rare fruit enthusiasts galore, have regular sales, most do newsletters, have members willing to share seeds, and bring you to a new level of rare fruit mania. There are quite a few, so if you let me know where in central Florida you live, I can let you know the closest one. For Robert Barbour, I don't know of any newsgroups solely for rare fruit, but there are 2 on fruit, including rare. They are: alt.agriculture.fruit & sci.agriculture.fruit There is also bionet.biology.tropical which is ALL biology of the tropics, but when there is info on rare fruit...... it's wonderful. Diane -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:13:59 PST From: Bob Stone Good morning- Diane Chamberlain suggested I write to you about your newsletter. We are both members of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council, in Manatee county, Florida. I would appreciate being added to your mail list. Bob Stone -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:21:06 PST From: Bob Stone Thank you for the prompt reply. I would like the back issues, but I am fairly new at this e-mail stuff. I don't know if I can receive attached files with Juno, so for the time being it would be best to send them in the body of the E-mail text. For Trudy. My miracle fruit is just showing flower buds. Seeds will be available when the fruit ripens. Because I don't know when to quit I have many more trees than I can set out in the ground, therefor, I have most of them in containers. I feel that I get fewer and smaller fruits as a result, but that is better than no fruit at all. For Don Gholston: The California Rare Fruit Growers society is on line at http://www.crfg.org - They have available information sheets called Fruit Facts, which you can access and print. The one on Jackfruit is two pages long and has bare bones information. More later, Bob --------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:12:20 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- Thank you for all of the back issues. I have printed them out so I can read them and perhaps make comments. I have been growing tropical fruits trees for nine or ten years. Most are in containers, since our lot is only 75 x 150 feet.. i have a greenhouse and a potting shed. At the beginning of winter I move as many one and two gallon pots as possible into the greenhouse on double decker shelves. When dangerously cold weather threatens I move as many 3,7,and 10 gallon plants as possible into the aisle. By stacking them I can store 100 pots there. The larger trees are laid down (stacked) on the ground, then covered with used window draperies rescued from a drapery shop dumpster. The drapes are clipped together at the seams with spring type clothespins. So far there has been a minimum of cold damage using this system. One thing I have learned is not to discard any tree that seems to be dead until at least three months after the freeze. It often takes that long for them to start sprouting new growth. Here comes the commercial; The Manatee Rare Fruit Council will have its annual tree sale on Sunday, May 18th, fom ten to four. It will be held at the Manatee Civic Center on Route 41 in Palmetto. Participating nurseries will bring over 3,000 trees, offering a wide selection. If someone needs more specific directions I can post them here on request. Bob Stone ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 From: Eddie munoz How far inland do you live? How often to you get winter frost/freezes? I live in Rainbow, Ca. on 20 acres. I wish to grow rare fruit as well as not so rare fruit but I am on water wells that are tied very, very much to the amount of rainfall we get in our area. (I have had to let trees die when we've had to import water via tanker trucks) Any info on how to get water in from a reliable source? Eddie munoz ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:37 PST To: Eddie Munos I live in Rancho Penasquitos (in the city of San Diego), maybe 7-8 miles inland. This particular location hasn't had frost during the 4 1/2 years I've lived here. A few blocks away, there will be, however. I can't think of anything to help in getting additional water. Twenty acres is a lot of land to water! My lot is about one-fourth of one acre. If you generate any gray water that can be collected and used, that could keep trees alive until more water is available. You have to be careful about what detergents, etc., go into the water, however. There are booklets available, I believe, dealing with the subject. Some trees can survive but lose their fruit in long dry spells. I'm thinking of sapote (white), in particular. Mulch, of course, can help, but you probably have done as much as possible in that vein. There is, or was, a mushroom growing operation someplace in the area that has a mushroom compost that is cheap or maybe even free. Rain collected from roof downspouts can be stored, but it takes a lot of storage space and doesn't last long. I'll circulate your letter to see if anyone has other ideas. It must be very frustrating! Leo ---------------------------------- From: Eddie munoz Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 Thanks for any help. I've tried the water district but it will cost an arm and a leg to get me connected to them and of course I have to pay the whole thing. It is frustrating since we use to live on 2/3 of an acre in Pico Rivera which is a suburb of Los Angeles and of course I never had to worry about water. I had success at times with papaya, mango, guavas, and banana as well as normal stuff like citrus and avocado. We use to get a lot of frost in my area as low as 25 degrees. Eddie munoz -------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:38:32 +0100 From: PAUL Hagstedt I am a lychee,annana, mamey sapote grower in South Florida.and a member of Tropical Fruit Growers of South Florida, visit my new site at lychee.com / I would be interested to be a part of your news group. Paul Hagstedt Thank you --------------------------------- To: Paul Hagstedt Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:38:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I wrote you once about ordering a lychee tree (Brewster) but haven't taken any further action, because I don't know how trees survive coming in with the severe quarantine check in California. Even if the tree is in the best of condition, if it is held for very long, it might not make it when planted. I will send you back issues of the newsletter, if you request it. Horticordially, Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Stone Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:10:19 PST Hi- I have finished reading all of the back material, and have some information on a few topics. Scott Marshall asked about Cherimoya. They grow at a higher altitude than the Sugar apple, and require some winter chill. That is why the Israelis hybridized them with the sugar apple to produce the Atemoya. I have had Cherimoyas old enough to flower, but they have not done so. I think it's too warm here in Bradenton, Florida, Zone 9. For Ed Griffin, about low chill Kiwis. If you are in Zone ten you may be near Ft.Myers. Contact the Caloosa Rare Fruit Exchange. They meet at the Extension Service building on Palm Beach Boulevard, route 80, west of I-75, exit 25. They should have the information you want, and you would benefit by joining. Roy Grear's nursery (35927 Chancey Rd. - Zephyrhills, FL 33541) has several low chill varieties of Kiwi, and may be able to supply you with what you need. I think your nameless fruit tree is an Imbe. I just checked mine, and the branches do grow in groups of three. The leaves are dark green and leathery in texture. They require male and female plants to produce heavily, but my female produces a few fruits by itself. What we need to do is to swap grafts. How are you at grafting? If these trees can be airlayered we could clone them and swap them. To Don Gholston - If you want the latest news on Jakfruit contact Fairchild Tropical Garden at 11935 Old Cutler Rd, Miami, FL, 35156 Phone 305 665-2844 Fax 305 665-8032. They have an ongoing research project on Jakfruit. They also are heavily into a study of Mango varieties, and have imported many new varieties. I have four small Jakfruit trees in containers. One has a fruit (male) about the size and shape of two joints of my little finger. There had been a smaller, round fruit, but it has fallen off. I suspect that was a female. To Robert Barbour - I can't locate the drawing, but the instructions said that Kiwis are such heavy bearers that the trellis must be very strong. They recommended 4x4 supports and 2x4 stringers. If anyone wants discriptive literature on tropical fruits, ask for Fruit Crops Fact Sheets at your friendly neighborhood Extension Service. Here's a list of the ones I have received from them ; Atemoya, Avocado, Avocado Propagation, Bananas, Black Sapote, Blueberry, Canistel, Carambola, Coconut, Eugenia Species, Fig, Guava, Jaboticaba, Chinese Jujube, Longan, Loquat, Lychee, Macadamia, Mamey Sapote, Mango, Mango Propagation, Papaya, Passionfruit, Persimmon, Pineapple, Sapodilla, Seagrape, Sugar Apple, Tamarind. Dooryard Fruits, Growing Fruit Crops in containers. Everyone should become familiar with the many rare fruit clubs. The two main ones are RARE FRUIT COUNCIL, INTERNATIONAL p o box 561914, MIAMI, fl 33256, AND CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, - THE FULLERTON AUDITORIUM, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, FULLERTON, CA 92634. They both have branches in their respective states. Contact the parent organization for the address of the chapter closest to you. If growing tropical fruits is new to you these clubs will be your best sources of information. Both parent clubs have seeds available to members. A number of my trees are seedlings from them, and many have fruited. Bob Stone ----------------------------------------- From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:19:31, -0500 For Trudy, The Tampa club's address is 313 Pruett Road, Seffner, FL 33584. The meeting place is north of I-4 before you get to 301, so Lakeland wouldn't be too far. I am a member of the Manatee club, and we meet in Palmetto, just north of Bradenton. If you can't attend any meetings, but just want a newsletter, the best is Miami's. I am the editor of the Manatee club's newsletter, and see most of the newsletters from around the state. Most of the newsletters are kind of newsy about what the individual clubs are doing. The Miami news is a magazine and most local clubs are chapters of the Miami club. The only drawbacks are that its focus is tropical and it costs $35 a year to be a member (and get their magazine) I can find out if the Tampa club has any Lakeland members, they probably do. If you are not going to focus on the sub-tropicals, but try mostly to do trees that can take the cold, then the more northerly clubs (like Tampa) have more info about that. Our Manatee club does a lot of talking about frost protection! One of the BEST magazines for a good price is the CRFG news. Even though it is California the information is great, it is pretty, and they have a great seed swap. Leo can brag about that publication! (Leo: ...and often does!) Let me know if you need more info. Diane --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:30:30 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- I'm so enthusiastic about tropical fruits that I take every opportunity to "spread the gospel". There are so many sources of information from which people can benefit that those of us who know some of the sources should make the information available. Keep up the good work. Bob ------------------------------------ From: Trudy Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Florida Clubs Thank you so much Diane. Seffner isn't that far. I may not get to every meeting if it's in the evening but at least I could make some of them. I'll check into it. Trudy ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I think what you're doing is great. And I'd be most grateful if you sent me a copy of the previous issues. By chance, are you in California? Some day I may get to the point where I can't handle Florida's humidity any more, but I never want to live where mangos don't grow....Are there parts of California where they grow well? --Dan Duprey -------------------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Duprey Yes, I live in San Diego, California, and there are places where mangos grow, but you have to learn about the micro-climates of the neighborhoods, and that isn't always easy. It's surprising that the rim of a coastal canyon, one which goes from inland to the coast, will drain frigid inland cold toward the coast, causing frost along the way. I lived in such an area before moving here. It was maybe 2 miles from the coast, near La Jolla, but winter cold could be as severe as 20 miles inland. Now, I'm about 8 miles from the coast, on a hill, and while some nearby areas get frost, I haven't in the 5 years I've been here. There are other locations with larger contiguous frost-free areas than mine. If you experience difficulties in receiving the large attachments, I will break them up and try again. Leo -------------------------------------- A friend, Don L Hickox wrote: Leo, I have a question concerning garden pests. The giant white fly is all over our yard. I've tried spraying commercial oil and soap mixtures without success. I've heard that there is a wasp that will fight these pests. I just purchased ladybugs and a beetle which are supposed to help. I also clip and dispose of the infected areas. Any tips? Take care, Don -- Don, Someone I talked to, who MAY know something about pest control, says there are several products - he mentioned three, that would help. Tempo, Pyrodon, and Maverick. He says that whichever you use should be mixed with a light horticultural oil, in the ratio of two tablespoons per gallon of spray. (I wish I could remember his name. He sprays grounds for weed and pest control for his job.) I hope you let me know what you learn. Our fruit newsgroup would like the information. This Mr. Moon may be able to buy products that we can't, because he has a commercial license. It's possible some of them aren't available for home gardeners. See you soon. Leo ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:16:10 -0700 From: Glenn Andrews Subject: hi there, Do you have any idea what would cause fruit drop on capulin cherry? My tree in the san fernando valley is flowering heavily, but after forming small fruits, most dry out and fall off before maturing. A friend in Santa Monica is having the same problem, even though he is in a much better climate area Thanks, Glenn Andrews ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 19:15:28 -0500 From: Raymond N. Gerlach Leo, I am in the process of moving all of my email. Would you please change my address in your directory so I don't miss any of your messages? I really enjoy your information. Thank you, Ray Gerlach ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 00:14:47 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Hi Leo and Betty: My name is Dick Gross retired in Phoenix from Unocal for 11 years. Your page is interesting. About 40 people around Phx have recently formed an Arizona chapter of the CRFG. I am the Sec. and put out a monthly club newsletter. My family moved to San Diego from Nebraska in 1936 and my Company transfered me to El Centro and then here in 1968. I built my own home in Paradise Hills in 1957 where I got my first taste for growing exotics on an ideal canyon lot. Here, I have a thirteen year old mango from seed which is now in full bloom in its fourth bearing year. The fruit is non-fiberous, has no formaldahyde flavor with seeds(non-viable) only an eighth of an inch thick. My inlaws still live in Chula Vista and we go there fairly frequent. Your idea is a good one but does it overlap functions of CRFG? While I have your audience, is there-do you know-any special handling for black sapote seed? Regards -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 21:46:03 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I consider myself mostly as a secretary receiving mail and forwarding it to the group of over three dozen growers of rare fruit. Your question about black sapote I will forward to the group and see what responses come back. I see no conflict in what this newsgroup does and anything going on with CRFG. I'd like to know more about your mango tree. What variety does it most resemble, in your estimation? It would be tempting to buy graftwood from you in June, if you are willing. I have several excellent seedlings, also. Do you want to be on the mailing list? There have been six "issues" this year, with the seventh due out April 1. Why don't I put you on and you let me know if you want to continue with it? You will be interested in knowing what group members have to say about black sapote seeds. I would guess that you would want to plant them pretty soon after removing them from the fruit, but they are so similar to persimmon, I believe, that maybe that precaution isn't necessary. I believe persimmon seeds maintain their viability for quite a while. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:13:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dick Gross Thanks for your prompt reply, Leo. Conflict wasn't quite the word I had in mind, just innocent overlap. I would consider selling graftwood. Our club has made one failed attempt and I have killed several seedlings in my own attempts with no successes. I have one seedling about four months from graft size. Many of us here have had trouble maturing seedlings. I think we need to find some "wild" stock rather than Safeway "variety". My mango is about fourteen years old planted against block home with a Southern exposure. It takes our 115 degree heat without batting a leaf and went through an unusual December 29 degree freeze with only a dozen or so leaves burned near its 13 foot crown. I had a 150 watt flood on the ground beneath it, however. Do put me on the mailing list, and thank you. ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 01:52:46 -0500 (EST) From: David Rack I, too, am a grower of rare fruit. i live in Mar Vista and have about 68 fruit trees, vines and shrubs surrounding my house. I'd love to get involved in whatever activities you are planning. Please count me in. David --------------------------------- (Note: I think this one from Moshe may have slipped by me earlier) Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 11:40:28 -0400 From: moshe nadler dear mr. leo! my name is moshe nadler. i'm the farm manager of fruits intl. inc. in puerto rico. we have 1500 acres of mangoes. we also have a small collection of litchi, rambutan, durian, abiu, jack fruit, etc. all of them are still in the nursery. i have a msc. degree from the hebrew univ. in jerusalem. (sub-tropical fruits). i'm interested in rare fruits and if i can buy more from you in order to have more rare fruits in our collection i will be very happy. i will also like to help you, if i can. please tell me is there is anything i can send from puerto rico to you. sincerely moshe ---------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Feb 1997 09:28:40 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Moshe Nadler I don't have anything to sell, but I am very interested in mangoes. Do you have Kensington Pride from Australia? It's a favorite there, and it is polyembronic, as well. I'd like to find a nursery who can ship into California. At least, I'd like to find seeds from Kensington Pride. I will publish your letter in my newsletter, and maybe someone will have information for you. Do you want to be on the mailing list? I hope so! What varieties of mangoes do you grow and what do you especially like? What about litchi (lychee)? Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 To: Moshe Dear Moshe, I just today realized I haven't heard from you as to whether you'd like to be on our Rare Fruit News Online mailing list. I'm hoping you'll say, yes. The newsletter began last fall, with just a few interested growers. Now, there are forty growers, mostly hobbiests, who send letters for me to forward among the others on the list. I will send you the newsletter that goes out tomorrow, and you can let me know if you want to continue with it. I hope you will stay in, as your experience and education sounds invaluable. Leo ---------------------- Date: March 31, 1997 From: Moshe Nadler dear leo! please add me to your list. please add also another agronomist who works in the same address, his name is: yair aron sincerely moshe >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - April 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 05/01/97 09 I expect almost everyone got two copies of the last newsletter. When some hadn't received it the day after I posted it, I assumed it was lost. I'll wait longer next time. You know that I have been mailing these on or near the first and fifteenth of each month, in 1997. If after you don't receive it within two or three days, send a message, and I'll post it again. There are more than sixty subscribers now. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:59:46 -0400 From: Bill Lady Dear Leo: Regarding the Surinam cherry, these are very common all over the S.E. Florida area, and someone should be able to supply seeds from there. They are commonly a small bush, and are sometimes used as a hedge. Apparently they will survive in very poor sandy soil without fertilizer or any special attention, but I am sure they would do better with some care. I have also seen a Barbados cherry bush in Miami. I haven't seen a single Surinam cherry plant in my Punta Gorda/Pt. Charlotte area for some reason, and they are not sold in any of the local nurseries or stores. Best regards, Bill Lady -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 23:45:19 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Dear Leo I was certainly pleased to get the twenty pages of correspondence on line and appreciate being on your mailing list. I did not read everything yet, but sampled the fare. I had one comment about the statement that a Capulin cherry would be preferred to a bing cherry. About 1981 we went on a trip to Ecuador which included a tour of a Capulin Cherry orchard picked out by the local extension service. I sampled more than a dozen of the trees and concluded they were all seedlings. The seeds from the ones that tasted good were spit into a ziplock bag, brought back home and planted out in DeLuz. Two years from the date of spitting I had about 30 trees growing in the ground, some of them with four inch diameter trunks. (I think we maybe should be looking at these as a source of cherry wood) The next year they were all bearing. Anyway I sampled all of the fruit. Some were much better than others, but to some degree all of the fruit had what I would call a wild taste -- and I would not have purchased any of them in preference to a bing cherry. Camp Pendleton generated a fire in 1985 which burned the whole grove, and everything else on the place. The trees were not all immediately killed and in fact I think a few of them still live -- but they are not watered. I needed a couple of trees over in another area so I planted a couple of the seeds from the first bunch, and these two now have fruit that generally resemble about the average of the 30 trees fruit. We do harvest the crop from the two trees most years and I still would not recommend eating them as picked. However, when made into a pie, or jam or any other kind of processed cherry the wild taste disappears and they are quite good -- perhaps equivalent to a good sour cherry, although they are not sour. Personally I am more interested in the Nanking cherry, Prunus tomentosa and have several of these in the backyard -- all seedlings. The fruit are bright red like a maraschino cherry, but less sweet than a sweet cherry. This means you can keep them in the refrigerator for a couple of weeks -- long after a sweet cherry would have spoiled -- and they are still good. I gather most people look on the Nanking cherry as some sort of rootstock or something. However, the four plants I have are each distinct and one of them has a very good taste. They also vary in productivity. So a little work on choosing a variety in this fruit might pay off. I might add that I pick the Nanking cherries ripe and usually have a bluejay scolding me from just out of reach. However, I have a Capulin cherry in the back yard right next to them that was a selected variety from Judge Vincent and I never even get to taste those. The birds eat them all up well before they get ripe. Both of these are growing on the north side of the hill mostly in shade and crowded by some other trees and bushes so I think these tropical cherries might easily be a good tree to consider for a low quality spot in the yard. The Nankin cherry is just a bush and does not require much space. I think your experiment in publishing is very interesting and I like the idea of seeing a digest on a periodic publication. I would rather have this than a deluge of day to day information. By the way for references, I was glad to have the tropical ecological farm site. I think highly of the one put out by ECHO which was at http://www.xc.org/echo the last I tried. You might want to check me before listing. Domestic readers get the feeling of being eavesdroppers. It is supposed to be for underdeveloped countries. Bob Chambers ----------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:57:20 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: robertchambers@sprintmail.com Bob, it's hard to argue when someone says A tastes better than B, when you know that to your own tastes it's exactly the opposite. I like the taste of durian, buttermilk, and several other foods that many people don't care for at all, or even actively dislike. Thanks for sending the website information. Your cherry comments are interesting, and you reminded me of the fruit of Prunus Tomentosa. I used to raise the bushes to use as rootstock for peach, plum, and nectarine. Worked very well, but suckered like crazy. You'd have little rootstock babies coming by the dozens. Anyway, the fruit of Prunus Tomentosa is nice, but the climate where I lived near the beach was not suitable for much of a crop. I should try it again... Capulin grows extremely fast and becomes pretty tall. I keep mine pruned severely, to put bird nets over the trees. Birds will clean me out, otherwise. Some trees have pretty decent-tasting fruit, but I've sampled some at CRFG meetings that were "edible but not eatable" as Paul Thomson has said. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:27:31 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Dear Leo I certainly agree with your comments on tasting. The one thing I have noticed is that some people are quite sensitive to bitterness -- Clytia is and I am not. On the other hand I am very sensitive to things that are spicy -- picante that is and Clytia is not. Bob ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:42:00 PST From: Robert Stone Hi- There are two upcoming events in Florida (in addition to our tree sale): Fruit and Spice Park is holding a three day seminar in July. I went to the last one and thoroughly enjoyed it. I will try to get exact details for you. Selby Botanical Garden in Sarasota will have their third one day tropical fruit seminar on August 23rd. It is not as elaborate as the other one, but is is well attended. I'll get exact info on it, too. I am involved with managing the tenth fruit tree sale for the Manatee Rare Fruit Council. Getting it ready takes a little time, but it goes well because we get good member response. We will have six commercial nurseries and several club members supplying plants I always order 5,000 sales tags, and have usually sent at least 3500 and as many as 4200 sale tags to those bringing plants. We charge the vendors and club members 20% of their sales price. Tampa gets 50% at their sale! I notice my friend Norm Rohrabaugh has signed up. He will have a lot to contribute. Keep up the good work, Bob ---------------------------------------- Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:05:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Trudy Eagan Subject: Re: Surinam Cherry: Need help in finding sources, please... To Monalisa, I think Ga. will prove much too far north unless you can keep your surinam cherry in a pot. I have a surinam cherry bush that is usually loaded with great tasting lobed red cherries. Unfortunately it takes only one freeze to prevent the crop. Such has happened for the last two years. I do have one cherry I will pick and slowly savor tomorrow and hope for a freezeless winter next year. And I will pot up one of my smaller trees so I won't have to do without again. I can probably locate some seeds for you if you don't find them somewhere else. Trudy in central Florida ---------------------------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:01:52 -0400 ... I wonder how well Surinam cherries can take Georgia freezes, but I am the last one to discourage someone from growing fruits. She might want to consider frost-protection, though. Oliver Patterson ---------------------------------------- At 08:54 PM 4/11/97 +0000 From: Duke Hoang Hi I am living in San Jose, CA. I would like to grow Sugar Apple, but I can not find the specific information about sugar apple. I would appreciate if you give me any informtion. Duke --------------- Hi, Duke: I believe Sugar Apples don't grow outdoors anywhere in California, and only in the most tropical parts of Florida, in this country. They are a (distant, I expect) relative of paw-paws that do grow in lots of places, and of cherimoas, that will thrive in nearly frost-free regions, as where I live, but not outdoors in San Jose. I suggest you look at the webpage for CRFG: http://crfg.org/ and follow the leads you find there. I'd like to ask why you especially want to grow the Sugar Apple? Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:48:26 -0700 From: Duke Hoang Hi Leo Thank you very much for your email. I like Sugar Apple because 2 years ago I had travelled in Thai-Land, Viet Nam and I liked the fruit. Came back to US I grow and eat Cherimoas but the taste is different. I plan to grow Sugar-Apple in a container and move it to the green house in the winter. Do you think it will work? Duke. ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:03:06 -0700 From: Duke Hoang Leo, I will try to plant seed this year. But I have very lack information about sugar-apple if you know any good source please let me know. Thank you very much. More: My green house is about 8 feet in height, I think I can leave it in there for the first 5 years. I will keep in touch with you and learn more about tropical fruit trees. (I am just a beginner.) Duke ------------- Duke, I know people do what was thought to be impossible frequently, especially with regard to rare fruit. I haven't tried, but with a greenhouse, it should work. Can you just leave it in the greenhouse year around? Please let me know how it goes. You should be able to get seeds from CRFG's seed bank. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:37:36 +0000 From: Don Hickox Subject: Whitefly Control Encarsia Formosa is a wasp for smaller whitefly Delphastrus pusillus - a beetle for the giant whitefly, available now. It's a new control, available around July '97, for giant whitefly, supposedly superior. Don ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:21:55 +0000 Subject: Florida Growings-On In July Bob Stone says: Leo: I just phoned Fruit and Spice Park in Homestead, Florida. It has 25 acres devoted to tropical fruits. They have scheduled a three day seminar July 11, 12, and 13. There will be talks by tropical fruit experts, visits to private and public collections, fruit tasting, and mango madness, where at least SIXTY varieties will be available for tasting. Wouldn't you like to cover it for the Fruit Gardener magazine? It would be a great place to spend a part of your annual vacation. Your interested subscribers can contact the park and get a flyer explaining the whole thing: Address: 24801 S. W. 187th Ave. Homestead, FL 33031 Phone: 305 247-5727 Fax 305 245-3369 Bob ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 22:07:25 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" Hi, Leo: I have no problem with your leaving my email address in, and in some cases it would indeed be handy to be able reply directly to others in the newsletter, especially if they live nearby, so share growing conditions. Yes, a carbon copy to the newsletter would be appropriate, unless it was a really esoteric point. If you got overloaded with "carbon copies" you could ask us to not bother... ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 21:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" For Richard Cole -- Do you have an atemoya that bears fruit. Mine has been in the ground for three years, and flowered last year, and is flowering now. I'm wondering if I would need to hand pollinate it to get fruit. I've asked several people locally (I'm in Lake Worth, near W. Palm Beach, Florida), and have gotten contradictory answers. I'm not very patient or dextrous* so if it won't bear without hand pollination, I'll be tempted to pull it out and squeeze in another mango tree..... --Dan Duprey *e.g. after several classes on grafting, my success rate is still a perfect zero percent. ---------------- Date: Fri, 18 Apr 97 19:54 PDT From: Leo Manuel To: "Daniel K. Duprey" Dan, For what it's worth on the West Coast: I know of at least two people who get atemoyas to fruit without hand pollination, but I, and many other growers, get few if any. What is the name of the atemoya? I had African Pride (also called Kaller, I believe.) that never set fruit unless I hand pollinated it. Hand pollination isn't too difficult, though. I collect pollen, using a pill bottle and an artist brush, from flowers wide open. Then I look for flowers just starting to open to pollinate. Sometimes they don't sync too well, but you can save the pollen in the fridge overnight and apply the next morning. I'd close the pill bottle tightly, before storing it. I usually do the job too well, and have more fruit than the tree should bear. What have you tried to graft? Apples are the easiest, mangoes much more difficult. The season you do it matters here. I can successfully graft mangoes in June and July, but even then have failures in probably 25% of the time. White Sapote seems to be easiest in March, but even then I have had a low success rate. Leo ------------ Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:43:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" When you said you end up with more fruit than the tree should bear, you tempted me into possibly trying hand pollination on my Gefner. It's still a small tree (for one thing, it refuses to send any branches upward toward the sky), and doesn't have all that many blossoms. I'm wondering if there is more than one chance to pollinate a particular blossom. Is a blossom receptive for a few hours, or a few days, or??? --Dan ------------ Subject: Re: Hand pollination From: Leo Manuel To: "Daniel K. Duprey" Dan, my understanding is that the length of time varies from one variety to another, but that it's never more than a few hours. Some seem to favor being receptive in the early morning and others later in the evening. You may need another annona for cross-pollination, since the atemoya is a hybrid, but I don't know for sure. I have several cherimoya, atemoya and hybrid trees of uncertain parentage. For several years, I will keep the trees pruned so I can reach the limbs to hand-pollinate from the ground. Fortunately, most blooms seem to be in the lower part of the tree. Eventually some blooms will be out of reach, but you'll get enough fruit from the lower branches anyway. Leo -------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 05:39:02 -0700 From: Therese Long We are Robert and Therese Long of Santee, California. We grow: Guavas (multiple varieties), Banana, Ingas, Pithecellobium dulce, sapote, Papino dulce, and a few others..most are young seedlings (we're new at this). We would like to grow: Herbert River Cherry (Australian), Mamey sapote, Chico, Pawpaw (Asimina triloba), and anything unusual and tasty we can obtain. ---------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:36:18 -0700 From: Duke Hoang Subject: Paw paw (Readers, help find paw-paw trees, please!) Hello Leo After read your email I do a research about Paw paw and I decide to grow 2 Paw-paw trees. I go to some big local nursery but they don't have the cultivars I want. Do you know who's carry Wells and Taylor. Thank you very much. I just seeded Sugar-apple last Sunday. I will keeping in touch with you and let you know how it's going on. Talk to you later. Duke ---------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Subject: Peachs trees Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:58:20 +-200 Hello. As you know the peachs trees aren't a tropical tree. They grow well in Portugal and in south Europe. They need good sunlight in spring and in summer (April to September) warm, little air humidity and some moisture in the soil (rich sunny soil) with good drainage. They need to have a time to hibernate in autumn and winter (October to March) when all leaves have fallen, make cold and the sun light is smaller and rain. But for fruit it is must important and indispensable to have a significant pruning in winter, all suckers (small or medium branch that grow vigorously in the vertical or on the inside of the tree). If you don't prune, they don't bear or will give only small fruits. The fruit thinning has the same importance, so that you dont rapidly exhaust the fruit-bearing branch. (Leave one fruit 10 cm to 10 cm, don't permit the tree to grow bunches of fruit). Leave only approximadly one or two flower bud in each branch (or leaf bud) that you cut. This seems complicated but it's because my English isn't good. Yours sincerely Abilio Garcia [Abilio sent a fairly large graphic of pruning peach trees. I'll forward it to anyone who requests it.] ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 97 21:51 PDT From: Joel A Moskowitz aka SherHoudin@AOL.com Subject: Receiving information about rare fruit and sharing experiences re same As a member of the San Diego branch of the California Rare Fruit Growers, I noticed a reference in our newsletter about some e-mail distribution that you operate. What are the parameters and do you welcome others to join. Please advise. Joel A Moskowitz aka SherHoudin@AOL.com ------------ Joel, I send out the Rare Fruit News Online twice each month to a group of rare fruit growers. The mail I send is what they each have sent to me and I forward it to all of the rest. I will send a copy of the last issue (April 15) and put you on the mailing list. What do you grow? Have you been in San Diego very long? If you do NOT want to continue to receive the newsletter, let me know. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:52:38 -0700 From: Dennis I am purchasing a house in northern ca and I was wondering several things one is where do you find rare seeds etc. such as cococa, vanilla orchid etc. and the second is how well do tropicals and subtropicals do around Northern CA and finally are there rare's which could do well "espaliered"????????? as we will only have .19 of an acre of land and I want a lot of variety without the yard becoming overrun... Sincerely, Dennis ---------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Apr 97 05:46 PDT To: crosley1@ix.netcom.com Dennis, you can get seed from at least two rare fruit groups in the US, and you should subscribe to both. There are other sources, commercial and non-profit as well, in other countries. CRFG (California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc.) at http://www.crfg.org/ and Rare Fruit Council International in Florida (No web page) To order seed from CRFG, write to: CRFG Seed c/o Chris and Shirley Popko 230 N. Angeleno Ave Azusa, CA 91702-3519 To order seed from RFCI write to Rare Fruit Council International Seed Exchange c/o Tom White P.O. Box 570666 Miami, Florida 33257-0666 There are other commercial establishments as well. You might try searching on the internet. The tropicals you mentioned will require a heated greenhouse and very controlled conditions. Let me know if you want to be on the (free) mailing list for the Rare Fruit News Online. I'd guess most sub-tropical fruit trees could be espaliered, some more successfully than others. I know a man who tried it with cherimoyas. I think there would be better results when the trees are small to moderate in height. Leo ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 01:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Thanks for e mailing me the material, which I have yet to read. I just got back from the San Diego Rare Fruit meeting. I believe you were present as well but I didn't get a chance to meet you. I am Joel Moskowitz and I had the idea of some e mail network where persons interested in rare fruit could share knowledge etc. Seems you have this already up and running. I have no need to re invent the wheel. Tomorrow...it is late...I will read what you sent and probably get back to you further. Best, Joel Moskowitz ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 12:27:45 +0000 From and To: Jeff Earl Hello I got your name and email from Norm Rohrabaugh, who told me you are the one to contact to subscribe to the rare fruit newsgroup. I am quite familiar with the Web but I haven't used the newsgroups much. Can you fill me in on the details? My Tropical Web page.....www.thevision.net/jearl/ Thank You... Jeff Earl Modesto, Calif. ---------------------------------------------------- Jeff, I don't have a newsgroup, just a newsletter that I do on my own. I collect information, mostly letters from people who are on the list, and send it back to everyone on the list, sometimes with my own comments. There are some very knowledgeable people in the group, and you can probably find out anything you need to know. Nice pictures in your web page! ------------------------------------------------------ From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 23:52:25 -0400 Hi Leo, Please put this in the next issue of "Rare Fruit News OnLine:" Thank you, Scott, for your response to my question about using micro-jets for cold protection. The issue of cold protection is very important to me, because I am in a precarious situation. I have spent a great deal of time, money, and effort putting tropical trees in my yard. They are all considered to be too tender to be grown in my area (Lake county, FL, USDA zone 9). The temperature here once dropped to 17 degrees, which is slightly colder than Tampa's record low temperature (18 degrees). All along I have assumed that my trees will do well as long as I protect them for their first 2 or 3 years, when they are most susceptible to freeze damage. Now I am beginning to wonder about that assumption. Today I saw a mango tree in my area that had (and I emphasize the word "had") a trunk that was nearly 8 inches in diameter! It had been killed almost to the ground. Shoots were coming from buds at the very bottom of the trunk. Obviously, a severe freeze (the '89 freeze, perhaps?) had killed 90% of a very large, mature tree. The other mango trees that I have seen in this area have suffered the same fate. I have not yet seen one with flowers or fruit on it. I have seen guava trees (the tropical or "common" kind) around here that have resprouted from the base of a large, dead trunk. I *have* seen fruit on them, however. My fears are these: 1) When mature, will my trees die all the way to the ground in a severe freeze?; 2) Will I have to go to ridiculously great lengths just to keep the trunk and large branches alive (I'm not worried about the small branches)?; 3) Will they produce fruit following the freeze damage caused by a "normal" winter (4 freezes, with the lowest temperature about 25 degrees)? I realize that each tree is different. A mango tree, for example, will not set fruit if its flowers are exposed to sub-40 degree temperatures for very long, and it won't even *produce* flowers if it is killed to the ground every other year! It obviously needs a climate that is free from severe freezes. I am hoping that my trees will prove to be hardier than the mango! I would appreciate your comments (as well as anyone else's) regarding the cold-hardiness of the following trees: litchi guava strawberry guava carambola white sapote rose apple Basically, I would like to know what will happen to each one following a 25-degree freeze of moderate duration. Will the tree still produce fruit that year? Will it die all the way to the ground? (For the sake of simplicity, assume that these are mature trees planted on a south-facing site.) I am very interested in others' experiences in growing these trees (particularly in areas that are prone to freezes). I would greatly appreciate any comments (posted here or sent to me directly at "olliep@gate.net"). Oliver Patterson ------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 11:28:12 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Oliver Patterson Oliver, thanks for the cc (carbon copy). I hope that I get a cc of more of the mail that passes between the readers. It concerns me that information for the newsletter may dry up, as you exchange information but don't let the readership share in the lode. I realize that much is not appropriate for everyone, such as a private conversation, or maybe an exchange of scarce plant material, etc. However much of the advice offered or requested would be of interest to many of the readers. Someone expressed a concern that I'd be overwhelmed with these snippets, but that's so much better than to have NOTHING to report. Thanks, again, and I hope everyone will get into the habit of cc: leom@rarefruit.com, even when there may be only a remote chance that others will be interested and profit from the exchange. Thanks again!! Sincerely, Leo ------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" You wrote: > Oliver, I hope that I get a cc of the mail that goes between the > readers. It concerns me that the information will wither and dry > up, as you exchange information but don't let the readership > share in the lode. I am hoping that any responses to my letter will be sent to you to put in RFNO, but I included my e-mail address just in case. Some people might want to write just a short note, and would be reluctant to send it to you to put in RFNO because they wouldn't feel that it would be worth publication. In addition, if someone wanted to ask me something that did not relate to horticulture (e.g., "Where is Mount Dora?"), they wouldn't ask it via RFNO. > Someone expressed a concern that I'd be overwhelmed with these > snippets, but that's so much nicer than to have NOTHING to report. Good point. Out of curiosity, are you receiving too many or too few letters for RFNO (or does it matter)? > Thanks, and I hope everyone will try to get into the cc: > leom@rarefruit.com habit, when there's even a remote chance that > others will be interested and profit from the exchange. Perhaps I should mention the "cc:" idea the next time I include my e-mail address. I do think that most of the subscribers know to do that, though. BTW, when will the next issue be sent out? Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: "Oliver Patterson" Oliver, since the first of 1997, the issues have been approximately on the first and fifteenth of the month. I expect to continue that pattern, barring some massive load of mail that needs to be dealt with more frequently. All I hope for is for consideration as to whether the information being exchanged has possible interest to some of the rare fruit growers, and if so, will send a cc to me to incorporate. I often edit letters, leaving out information sent directly to me relating to things of no interest to the readers. Sometimes I modify to correct spelling and grammar, when the writer is not fluent in English. I would do that for information exchanged between correspondents and cc'd to me, as well. I have not been overwhelmed, by any means. Sometimes I wonder whether the busy readers would prefer a shorter, more condensed version. For me, up to now, at least, the newsletter is about what I had hoped would evolve. I have encouraged everyone to send in questions that they'd like to have answered, or answers to questions that they think may exist. Even if no current reader has an answer for a question asked, we've seen later readers come along and post responses to past questions. It's always good to hear from you. Sincerely, Leo --------------------------------------------- From: Robert Stone Received: (from robsto@juno.com) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:36:29 PST I have further information obout the rare Fruit Club Conference at Fruit and Spice Park July 11, 12, and 13: Day 1 a.m. ---- visit on your own a banana nursery, a coconut, kumquat, and banana nursery, two private fruit growers, and two other nurseries. Fruit trees will be available at some sites. p.m.--tours of Brook's Tropical fruit packing house an then University of Florida tropical research center Day 2 ---- Mango morning at Fairchild Tropical Garden Tour the Kampong of the National Tropical Botanical Garden Lunch at the Kampong Tour of Fruit and Spice Park Evening picnic banquet MANGO TASTING - FIFTY OR MORE VARIETIES TO TRY Day 3 ----Seven lectures: A New approach to Growin Guavas Important New Fruit Crop Insects and Diseases in Florida Planting, Fertilizing Tropical Fruits Genetic Improvement of Bananas and Plantains The best Rare Tropical Fruits for South Florida Mamey, Carambola, and Passionfruit in South Florida Lychee and Longan Workshop Cost is $25.00, payable to Tropical Fruit and Vegetable Society of the Redlands. Mail to address below: Fruit and Spice Park -24801 S. W. 187th Avenue, Homestead, FL 33031 Phone 305 247-5727 or FAX 305 245-3369 This is a chance to talk to many very knowledgeable people and just plain folks who share the hobby. Bob Stone ------------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 12:40:12 -0700 (MST) From: Mike Carter O.k, while perhaps a -little- off subject matter, I am annoyed and you know misery loves company :-) I am a fruit lover. (Hence, I'm here.) Since I have neither the space or inclination to grow EVERYTHING I like, I am subject to purchasing produce from the local stores. It seems that everytime we buy plums, they're either severely bruised near the pit (read, most of the meat) or are so dry it's a miracle the tree was able to produce the plum in the first place. Here's the catch: They all LOOK just fine. So I say, "O.k, let's buy them from another chain.." Next day, while driving to work, my morning plum was another tosser. Yuk-o-mania. Bruised core, a few millimeters of good stuff from the skin down. The rest would make you ill. So I say, "O.k, 'nuff's enough. I figure the only place to buy reasonably good produce must be the local naturally grown place that charges three legs, four arms and a lease on your teeth." Wrong again. These superbly shaped, almost perfectly waxed plum adonis'es tasted like a sample of wet, third year compost with a yard full of dobermans. Ka-thunk. Another tosser. So the question I have is: How do you tell if it's good or bad..and WHERE do I get 'em? Cheers -Mike +----------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Mike Carter | | | Pyro@primenet.com | Happiness is a rocket in flight | | MAD ROCKET SCIENTIST | | +----------------------+-------------------------------------+ To: Mike I think that if you lose your day job, you'd make it fine writing comedy. The rest of us have been taking life far too seriously and not seeing the humor in every day situations. I don't have an answer to the fruit-buying dilema. We have farmers' markets that are pretty good. In the sub-tropics, there's almost always something ripe on my own trees. I think some of the problem is that varieties are planted that color as if ripe long before they are, so that the buyer is fooled into thinking the fruit is really ripe. Also, the long-term storage of fruit probably contributes to an internal breakdown. I hope you don't ever lose your sense of humor over it! And do write--often! Leo ------------------------------------ From: "Holzinger, Bob" Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:15:59 -0700 Hi Leo, I was pleasantly surprised to find your home page when I went looking in the Net for interesting items to check out. Glad to hear that you are doing well in Rancho Penasquitos. What types of mango have you fruited there so far? I got two fruit (my first) last December on a small Kent. I should start back at the beginning first. I moved to Ventura 3 years ago when I changed jobs--I work at Amgen now. The property I bought has 1/3 acre with a south face in the backyard with a downhill slope, i.e. good drainage. I terraced the slope, backfilled with topsoil and started to plant whatever I could find. I have over 40 Passiflora species and hybrids, 18 and soon to be 20 varieties of bananas, 3 mangos in the ground (Kent, Manilla, Winters) and several seedlings from Mexico, black sapote, jaboticaba, yellow jaboticaba, cherimoya, at least 10 guava species and relatives, citrus (including fruiting Chandler pummelo), capulin cherry, berries, figs, stone fruits, and several cactus species. For those who might be interested, Patrick Worley just started mail order sales of Passifloras again under the name Wild Ridge Nursery in Prunedale, Calif. He had an article in the May issue of Sunset and his address is there at the end of the article. I am interested in joining your group and could answer any Passiflora questions to the best of my ability, or I can ask Patrick. Let me know what you need from me and we'll take it from there. I look forward to chatting with you and your network of rare fruities. Take care. Best regards, Bob Holzinger bob.holzinger@amgen.com ------------- Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:15:09 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Bob! How good to hear from you. I didn't know where you had moved. Yesterday I sent out a query to the 60 people who are on my mailing list for Rare Fruit News Online, trying to find a picture of the FRUIT of Passiflora Vitafolia. Julian, from the Quail Botanical Garden, had called, not being able to locate one. I had a photo of one of my own that I gave him, and it will do, but it isn't the high quality one would find in a display. I'm glad to know Patrick's around. Does he have e-mail or webpage? My seedling mangoes I began to grow several years ago, from sources unknown, have been a pleasant surprise, for the most part. Several of them are polyembronic, and I wish I knew where they came from. I have planted seeds over the years from Mexico, Hawaii, and miscellaneous grocery stores. Some were quite good, but last year was the first year most of them had fruited, so this year will be of greater interest. Besides my seedlings, I also have Peggy Winters Seedling, #20222 which was renamed Winters, Kent, Keitt, Carrie, Valencia Pride, Aloha, Edwards, Glorioso, Mission, a few others, and seedlings of Oro. I wish I had a better location. My .25 acre has less than half level, and the rest faces NORTH! The climate is excellent here, with no frosts in the 5 years I've been here. Leo ----------- Date: Wed Apr 30 11:46:52 1997 From: "Holzinger, Bob" Hi Leo, Boy you must live by your computer. That was record time turnaround on my email I sent to you! I just got your last newsletter and I think I would like to be online with this address, Lin (my wife) uses the computer too much for me to read that big of a letter. I checked my slide inventory and I only have pictures of P. vitifolia fruit with other fruit, not by itself. If I had been given the same request 3 months ago I could have sent him a fresh fruit, but it's past the season now. And yes I would like to see the back issues. Send them to my Amgen address and put me on your distribution list. Hopefully I can contribute something to the group. This is quite an undertaking you have volunteered to tackle and I hope you have enough time left over to look at your plants once in a while. When I finish the letters I will email back with questions, comments, sources, etc. Later, Bob ------------------------------------------- From: "Stef Van Uffel" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 21:51:13 +0200 Hello Leo, I don't have a picture, but I found a most interesting site about Passionflowers You'll find it at: www.threewa.co.uk/passion/ They have lots of pictures, perhaps you can fax them. I believe their E-mail is rather a mess. Greetings, Stef Stef.VanUffel@ping.be ------------------------------------- From: "Mark Cesare" Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:53:14 -0400 We are interested in growing Guava from seed in North Carolina. Please send info, if you have any. Respond to cesare@ara.com or cesarejms@aol.com. Thanks. Mark C. ---------- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:58:38 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Mark Cesare Mark, there are several "common" fruit, all called guava: Here are a FEW: FEIJOA SELLOWIANA - Feijoa, Pineapple Guava PSIDIUM GUAJAVA - Apple guava, yellow guava PSIDIUM LITTORALE - Strawberry guava It's extremely easy to grow the Psidium Guajava from seed. I haven't tried the others. First you have to have the seed. If you know someone whose fruit you like, just plant it. Don't wait too long before getting the seed into a planting mix. If the weather is warm, they should sprout rather quickly. Watch for snails, which like the tender shoots. If you don't have a good source for really good guava seeds, you can get seed from at least two rare fruit groups in the US, and you should subscribe to both. There are other sources, commercial and non-profit as well, in other countries. CRFG (California Rare Fruit Growers, Inc.) at http://www.crfg.org/ and Rare Fruit Council International in Florida (No web page) To order seed from CRFG, write to: CRFG Seed c/o Chris and Shirley Popko 230 N. Angeleno Ave Azusa, CA 91702-3519 To order seed from RFCI write to Rare Fruit Council International Seed Exchange c/o Tom White P.O. Box 570666 Miami, Florida 33257-0666 If you have other questions, let me know. I am putting your letter in the newsletter, and you may get additional suggestions. The CRFG web page is excellent to get all kinds of help. Leo ------------------------------------- From: benson@netxpress.com Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:32:32 -0500 Put me on the mailing list for the newsletter. I am Adam Benson from San Antonio, Texas, actually a little south of San Antonio in zone 8b/9a. I grow some tangerines, bananas, papayas, and mangos in the greenhouse. Adam >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - May 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 05/16/97 10 At the end of this article is a note about my grafting habits. I've done it this way for years, and old habits die hard. ----------------------------- Date: 5/1/97 From: Don Hickox Subject: Biological Control of Aphids Leo, I should have received my predator beetles today, a month late due to Bio-Pest's error, but I'll let you know how they do. (Later) Here's more info on the wasp. According to Applied Bio Pest, phone 1 800 787 BUGS, the wasp for the giant white fly will be released by the agriculture department sometime this summer. The other insect for aphid control is the lacewing. As I said Walter Anderson is the only place (locally) that this company currently deals with. I have not received anything from them yet. They had shipped the beetles on the 3rd. They are tracking the UPS delivery. See ya, Don ------------------------- From: "Jose M. Gallego" Subject: Looking for cupuacu theobroma Hi Leo, I was wondering if you could ask your mailing list to see if anyone has seeds or a plant of the cupuacu theobroma grandiflorum, for sale. I have 'bean' looking for this fruit tree for some time now, I used several resources on the internet, I wrote to a company in Brazil and here in the US (can't remember right now their names) but I have yet to receive a reply. Several months ago I posted the request on the news groups, no reply. I think there is a lot of market potential for this fruit and Brazil may not want to let come to the US (???) Thanks, Jose ----------------------- Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 11:23:14 -0400 From: Bill Lady Subject: Re: Vanilla, for Dennis Hi, Leo: Dennis recently asked about vanilla and cacao: Vanilla is raised commercially in Yucatan, Chiapas, and Quintana Roo States in Mexico, and also in Tahiti. It grows wild in Central America, and can be found from sea-level up to about 4,000 feet elevation. It is an orchid plant, but those I have seen have some roots in the ground. With good growing conditions it will spread extensively through low tree branches around the area of the plant. The vines are about 1/4" to 3/8" in diameter, and jointed somewhat at each leaf. The leaves are fleshy and about 2" X 3" in size. I had several decorative plants with my orchid collection at my former home in Tegucigalpa, Honduras, and at a farm 60 miles east of there, both at the same elevation of about 3,200 feet, and they did very well. These were from plants collected in the wild. In commercial production, each flower is polinated by hand. In the wild, the plants produce pods but in very small quantity. When the pods are mature, they are harvested individually and then subjected to a long curing process which I am not very familiar with. I do know that each pod is scratched longitudinally with a needle, and, at some point in the drying process they are packed in wooden boxes to produce the vanillin through fermentation. The beans are normally sold in the cured state, with the vanillin extracted industrially by the use of alcohol. If Dennis knows anyone in Belize, there is a very extensive wild plant in the bushes behind the old PanAm hangar at the Belize airport, and perhaps cuttings could be obtained. Regarding Cacao, this also grows wild all through Central America. It extends naturally to the north as far as Chiapas, Quintana Roo, and Yucatan, and south into South America. I have seen it at elevations from sea-level up to about 3,000 feet, and it seems to much prefer warm, tropical conditions. The fruit is delicious when eaten ripe from the tree. The seeds were used as currency, and as a beverage, by the early Indian civilizations before the Conquest. The Spaniards developed a taste for it, and it became the most important export crop for certain areas in the 17th and 18th centuries. (See: " Spanish Central America, A Socioeconomic History, 1520-1720", by Murdo J. Macleod). At that time, there were important plantations on the Pacific coast of Guatemala and El Salvador, as well as on the Caribbean coast of Honduras and in Costa Rica. I understand there is a current attempt to revive commercial production in Honduras, near Puerto Cortes. At the present time, the most important producing areas are Ecuador and Africa. There is very little commercial production today in Central America. Both Vanilla and Cacao are strictly tropical plants, and they will not thrive at all in a cold climate except under hot house conditions. Best regards, Bill Lady ------------------------- At 03:34 PM 5/7/97 +0000, Leo wrote to Moshe: Moshe, I would like to know whether you have mangoes that are polyembryonic? Or come true to seed, even if not polyembryonic? Leo ----- Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 16:30:41 -0500 To: Leo Manuel From: moshe nadler Hi! First I must tell you that it's nice to hear from you and it's nice to read the mail that you send. Yair and I enjoy reading it. As for polyembryonic mango - the comercial mango varaities that we grow are all monoembryonics - keitt, parvin, tommy atkins, haden, austeem, palmer and irvin. the only mango that is poly is the terpentine which we use as rootstock. Right now we have fruits on those trees. they are small, yellow, have a strong taste and a lot of fibres (the local people here like them). By the way, Yair just finished is PhD on the genetic side of this phnomena - the poly and mono embryo. I will ask him to send also written material from his thesis. Sincerely yours, Moshe ---------------------------- Date: Thu May 8 19:55:15 1997 From: "Alan Moxley" Hi Leo, My name is Alan Moxley. I grew up in San Diego and hope to return someday. Right now I live in Santa Cruz, CA. I've recently started the hobby of growing tropical plants, including a tamarind tree and a mango tree (both from seeds). With the cold weather up here I've had to be very caring for my plants. I bring my little mango and tamarind trees in every night. They are both growing very nicely. I'm very much interested in growing more plants and exotic fruit trees. However, I am limited by the fact that I live in an apartment and that I live in northern California. I plan on moving back to San Diego in a couple years (where my parents still live). I would like to join your news group, but I also have a specific request. I would like to obtain the seed of a mango that grows well in southern California. Let me make it clear that I love mangoes! The mango seedling I have was planted from a mango I bought in the supermarket. I was surprised to see it grow, and it is now about about 5-6 inches tall. I understand that there are different varieties of plants and that some are better suited to certain environments. I have no idea where my mango came from so I'd like to plant another mango tree for the purpose of growing it in San Diego someday (and harvesting its fruit!). Please let me know what you think. Should I buy a small mango tree, or grow one from a seed? Could you sell me some seeds or let me know where I should get some? When I was younger I, the family used to visit Mexico frequently, which is where I got my exposure to tropicals plants and fruits. He died when I was nine (I'm 23 now). I have very few Moxley relatives (distant cousins), though I do have a half brother and sister. I plan on working in the computer industry up here in northern CA for a couple years. I very much want to move back to San Diego, or perhaps somewhere even warmer. BTW, I have my own web site. It has a list of the plants I have and pictures I've gathered off of the internet. http://www.cruzio.com/~amoxley -Alan -------------------- Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 20:15:31 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Hi, Alan! It's fine to use supermarket seeds, but you need to know what the variety is. Usually the produce manager knows, or can show you a box with the variety imprinted on it. Price Club sells them by the dozen in a box, in season (not yet.) Their boxes are marked. I planted several Kent and Keitt seeds from there last year. I would buy a young started tree, grafted to a known variety, when you get located in San Diego. There are lots of places to buy them. Nurseryland often has special sales, around $40, occasionally. Home Depot sometimes has them, especially in Lemon Grove, near here. Also for good prices. Lots of places carry them in a wide range of prices. You need to find out what kinds you like and what grows well. CRFG webpage is an excellent place to begin, with links to many good places. Alan, I'm sure you'll get excellent advice from our readers to your questions. I'm putting your letter in the next newsletter. Yours, Leo --------------------------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: "'Leo Manuel'" Subject: Lots of stuff Hi Leo, I finally got through most of the past "issues" of RFNO and have some comments to provide. First of all, if anyone wants to contact Patrick Worley about Passifloras his email address is MrBegonyuh@aol.com. He is looking for someone who has P. alata "Ruby Glow" because he lost his and needs to get cuttings going again. (NOTE: Patrick is an EXPERT on Passifloras!) Several people in mailing group said they grow papayas (Ed in Laguna Hills and Bob Stone to name a few). I would like to get some seeds if they are available later in the year. Several people in Florida asked about cold hardiness and protection of bananas and passifloras. My experience here in So. California is to have back-up plants somewhere it is safe because once bananas and passifloras get big they are almost impossible to protect. A large sheet or cloth tarp could protect a bit but once it gets below 32 there's most likely going to be some damage on both. So I would take cuttings of the passifloras now and get some back-up plants ready for the next assult. Piyush Mehta in the Bay Area wants to know where to get sub-tropical plants. After doing some research on growing conditions, I would suggest she find a friend who has a van or truck and they take a few days to drive to San Diego, stopping at nurseries along the way to compare stock and price and then buying on the way back home. I could provide a list to her of the nurseries I would include in her itinerary. And lastly, Leo, did you contact the nursery in Queensland about the Kensington Pride mango? It sounded like they could be a source for a lot of other plants if they are clean enough to pass inspection here in California. (NOTE: No, not yet. I'm still hoping for something local. I am afraid that imported plants, even if they come in clean, will be subjected to lethal conditions in the inspection station. I've heard horror stories... Leo) That's it, except to say that it will be no problem not emailing while you are away--I will be visiting Patrick Worley at that time and will hopefully expand my passiflora collection. Best regards, Bob -------------------------------- From: "JEFF" Subject: Coconuts Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 15:04:06 -0700 Hello............. I am curious to find out how far north in the US are Coconuts grown? I know that you can grow Coconuts in Miami, FL. But can they be grown outdoors farther north? Has anyone ever heard of Coconut trees that survive Califonia's cool winters? Jeff Earl, Modesto,CA --------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 18:42:19 -0700 (PDT) From: tlong@michele.gcccd.cc.ca.us (Therese Long) 1. I can't seem to obtain sphagnum moss (for air layering) in a quantity to meet my needs; local distributors will not sell retail. Is there a suitable, obtainable, replacement? 2. Can an edible fig be air layered? Robert Long, Santee, CA ----- From: Leo Manuel Robert, I know you'll get good advice from our experienced readers. Here's my two-cents worth: I buy the sphagnum moss from Home Depot. The type doesn't seem to matter. Edible figs probably could be air layered, but they grow so easily from cuttings that most people would reproduce them that way. I use cuttings that are about finger size in diameter, and about one to two feet in length, although the dimensions aren't important. I have cut it so that a bud is near the bottom and I'll split the base end, using the clippers. That's the way I cut up grape vines for growing them from cuttings also. Grape vines are very easy to grow from cuttings. Then put them vertically in a 5-gallon pot with good drainage, that is nearly full of soil or soil mix, about a dozen per pot. In a few weeks they take off. It may help to keep them in a shady place until they start to grow. Leo -------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 04:12:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Rack12@aol.com Subject: Longans I am looking for a large fruit-bearing tree for my front yard. I live in Mar Vista, which is between Santa Monica and the L.A. airport. I planted a guava tree once in my front yard, but someone actually stole the tree! In the backyard, I have over sixty fruiting trees and vines. This time I want to plant something that nobody will recognize. I was thinking about longans. I have some questions.... 1. Will a longan tree grow well in the cool summers and warm winters of the Southern California coast? 2. Will a longan tree bear fruit here? 3. Has anybody had any success with longans? 4. Is litchi a better choice? David --------- From: Leo Manuel David, I expect that you'll get lots of responses from your questions. Here's mine: I've had greater success with longans near the coast in S. California than with lychees. The lychee trees grew to be large and beautiful, and in the twelve years of life, they produced a total of about one dozen large, tasty and beautiful fruit. On the other hand, the Aap longan was loaded every year, after it started producing. Now I have a Kohala longan that produces well. I haven't got around to getting a lychee. (NOTE: I'm open to suggestions from your personal success with lychees.) I think that a Macadamia tree is also a good choice for the front yard. The nuts aren't recognized, and the holly-like foliage makes it attractive. I had one in my front yard where I used to live. Leo ---------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 20:15:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" Subject: Mango mornings I'm going to try to get to the Mango Morning at Fairchild Tropical Garden in July -- if I can bribe someone at work to work that Saturday for me. I went the last couple years and thoroughly enjoyed the tasting and lectures and the chance to buy cultivars not readily available elsewhere. Last year several interesting varieties were for sale, including Nam Doc Mai, Dot, Cushman, Spirit of '76, Glenn, and Julie. Additionally, 4 varieties were promoted as "Curator's Choice" varieties: Joellen, Cogshall, Tong Dam, and Alanpur Banashan. I bought a Joellen and Alanpur Banashan. If they fruit next year, I'll let you know how they are. Until then I'm taking the Curator (Dr. Richard Campbell) at his word that they're excellent cultivars. My other mango trees, which I have tasted, are: Keitt, Kent, Glenn, Carrie, Cushman, Dot and Beverly. (Beverly, along with Graham, Hodson, and Vallenato, are this year's Curator's Choices.) I hope some of you get to Fairchild for this event (and to the Fruit and Spice Park, too, if you can). Meanwhile, I'm always interested in trading information/suggestions about mango varieties---favorites, unfavorites, etc. Dan Duprey Lake Worth, Florida ------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 00:04:09 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: Kelp for your fruit? I would like to ask any who have had experience with kelp, what their short and long term experience has been. I would prefer to hear this from someone who doesn't have an economic interest in the substance. Also would like to know where one can get it at the most reasonable price. Joel and Arlene Moskowitz -------------------------- From: "Stef Van Uffel" To: "Leo Manuel" Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:07:44 +0200 Hello Leo, Is there somebody who has some seeds from hardy kiwi's for me? Two years ago, I had some luck buying them here in Belgium. I had a few plants, but they didn't grow very well. At last, there was only one left, and that was eaten by my dog (she clearly couldn't wait until there actually was some fruit on it). The kiwi's I bought were cultivated in France, but I never saw any plants when I was on vacation there (they do grow the usual commercial kiwi's). In the mean time, I looked everywhere to buy them again, but nobody seems to import them. The few seeds I have left, won't come out after this time. So, if there is anybody who has hardy kiwi's and could send me some seeds, I would be very grateful (contact me by e-mail) By the way, some time ago, I bought a rare passionfruit. It was banana-shaped, bright yellow, 6-8 cm long and 2-2.5 cm in diameter. I seeded them and after 4 weeks I got well growing little seedlings. The leaves have the three usual 'lobes', but are very 'pointy'. Has anybody an idea of the name of this passionflower? (I'm aware this is a very vague description of the plant, but I haven't photographed them. I could do this if it would be really necessary, but perhaps it is a very common species in the US...) Thanks, Stef Stef.VanUffel@ping.be --------------------------------------------- Leo's grafting: I do most of my grafting of deciduous fruit trees in the spring and in early summer. In part, it's when I find graftwood, but often it's from not doing it during the dormant season. However, it works at least as well as dormant-season grafting. [I usually try to cut the wood so that there's a bud in the last inch of both the scion and the root sprout. Then I make the splice so the buds are on opposite sides of the splice. I've never tested to see if this improves the percentage of "takes" but it doesn't seem to hurt. Someone in NAFEX recommended this in an article titled "The Bud Saver." I began trying to do it that way, and don't really know if it helps.] I try to get freshly hardened wood, about pencil diameter, and in length of 3-6 inches. When I cut the scions myself, I leave some of the leaf stems on, and a small part of the leaf itself, away from the graft. This may help the graft to "take" more quickly. Sometimes the stems fall off, but not always. I like for the rootstock sprout to be the same diameter as the scion. I most often use a modified splice graft. It's a splice, on a diagonal of about one inch, with both of the diagonal surfaces cut (I use a single-edged razor blade) about one-half inch, and vertical. This cut is about one-third of an inch from the point of cut surface, and is made on both the scion and the rootstock. Then I place the scion and rootstock together so that they mesh in a tongue-and-groove form. This provides additional surface of cambium cells to the regular splice graft, and it frees both hands to wrap with clear plastic grafting tape. |\ | | | | \ \ | | | \ \ | | o| |\ \ | | | | \ \| |o | | \ \ | | | \ \ | | | \| Rootstock Scion Then I place a small piece of very slightly moist paper towel around the wrapped graft, put a sandwich-size plastic baggie around it, tie it with a short 6-8" piece of string, squeezing out as much air as possible before sealing it with a tight tie of the string. I cover the graft with a paper cover. I used to use small brown paper bags. Now I use scrap 8.5" x 11" printer paper. Usually I just roll it around the graft, tie around the graft area, and fold the top over, so that the sun doesn't get in. In 2-4 weeks the leaf buds indicate that it's beginning to grow. I'd leave it until it begins to push on the baggie. When I remove the plastic and paper coverings, I leave the plastic tape around the graft for several weeks. Be careful, though, that the plastic tape doesn't prevent the graft area from expanding. I basically graft everything the same way. Mangoes, cherimoyas, whatever. Sometimes, however, especially for extremely small-diameter wood, it's easier to use a cleft graft. Simply cut the rootstock sprout across the grain, split it (again, I use a razor blade, as it's sharper, by far), about one-half inch down the grain, cut the scion piece on both sides, so it's V-shaped, insert, wrap with plastic grafting tape, and treat it otherwise the same as the modified splice graft. When I first started grafting, I did everything that way, and it worked pretty well. This method also frees both hands to wrap the tape about the graft area. There's a modified cleft graft that I've used, when the scion is much smaller than the root sprout. If the scion is, say, 1/4" but the root sprout is 3/8", I've split the root sprout near the edge, where the distance across at the split is the diameter of the scion, in this case 1/4". I've even put two scions on, on opposite sides of the root sprout. There's a type of graft I've never used, called the NURSE GRAFT, as I recall. It's recommended for grafting trees that are very difficult to graft or to grow from cuttings. The base of the "scions" are prepared as you would for growing from cuttings, using hormones, etc. But the tops of the cuttings are inarched into the parent tree. This would require rather long cuttings, maybe 18 inches, I'd guess. Again, I've never tried it, but always thought I would for lychee. I knew a grower, years ago, who would plant young mangoes around the base of an older mango, when the older one was not doing much. Then he'd inarch one or two of the young mangoes into the old one. He claimed it would speed up the time for fruiting considerably. I haven't tried that, either. How about your grafting idiosyncracies? >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - May 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 06/01/97 11 Not a lot of mail, so this one may be a "quickie." I've almost finished grafting, and air-layering. I usually try to do air-layer in March or April. Plums (Gulf Red and Wade, in that order) have been ripening. Gulf Red is almost gone, while Wade is just beginning. Earligrande peach is almost finished and May Pride, Mr. X, and Eva's Pride are in full swing. Arapahoe (thornless and erect) black berries are ripening. I recommend this one, if you want a good, thornless, sweet, and early berry. It's slow to spread, but that may not be a handicap. Longan (Kohala) is setting fruit nicely, as are most of my mango trees; Tropical guavas are beginning to bloom in earnest; and Surinam Cherries (Pitangas) are ripening, and have been for a few weeks. Please remember to send a cc: leom@rarefruit.com, when you have information that will be of interest to some of the other growers in the group. Rare Fruit News Online lives only as long as there's a flow of information from you to the group. Have you read any good articles lately about rare fruit? If you change mailing addresses, let me know. If you want any of the back issues of RFNO to the beginning of 1997, let me know. However, the file size is large. ------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 19:30:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Ted Kapantais (I want to receive Rare Fruit News Online.) My name is Ted, and I live in Sarasota. I grow mangoes, lychees, carambolas, atemoyas, figs, citrus, peaches, loquats, jaboticabas, all as a hobby. I have over 100 trees in the ground and numerous ones in pots. I also graft, and have developed my own frost protection system. Ted (ggk217@aol.com) [Note: Ted, tell us about your frost-protection system!] -------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 08:08:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Hi. I'm interested in your mailing list newsletter. We live in Florida, between Ocala and Gainesville, in a very mild microclimate. Last winter, it got down to 18 or 19 in most neighboring communities but we barely dipped a fraction of a degree below 30--surrounded by water. We don't care if something is rare or common--if it is fruit, tastes good and grows here, we want to try it. We bought the place in November and we have way over 100 fruit varieties already. Our limitation is that we are in a very high water table area and much of the area of our land suitable to grow trees alreadly has huge oaks. Moreover, in addition to fruit and nuts, we are also growing quite a bit of bamboo. I'm not going to cut ancient oaks for anything. So we only have an acre or two that is well drained and of that maybe an acre that I'm willing to make available now. We have wild plums of great beauty and little merit as fruit that get defoliated in the spring by tent caterpillars. I expect that I will have to defend with BT any prunus. I've about decided not to buy plum trees because of the defoliation problem. So we are particularly interested in the following: 1) Fruits, nuts, etc., that require less than 300 hours of chill. Since our first winter got no colder than 29+ (F), it would be tolerable to have most anything that can stand down to say 25 (F). I'm propagating citrus, pear and persimmon rootstock as soon as I can get to it and will probably do so for peach. The strategy is to have a nursery easy to protect of replacement plants and of course to make more copies of the ones that really do well and that we really like to fill in or expand. Peaches are used as pioneer species to fill in while other trees reach full size. They will be phased out of any particular site after 7-10 years. 2) Fruits suited to our soil--sand with organic matter varying from very high to very low and corresponding fertility. We intend to maintain and enhance fertility mainly through mulch, of which we have more than we have time to harvest by a few orders of magnitude. 3) Disease and pest resistant cultivars and species. 4) Cultivars and species that tolerate seasonal wet and, if possible, flooded conditions. Any such can be planted without competing for space with the majority of fruits and nuts. 5) Cultivars and species that tolerate various degrees of shade so we can use some of the space under our ancient oaks and very large hickories. This could include genuine understory species and of course vines. 6) Cultivars and species that require no more than 300 hours of chill and tolerate some frost. We also have some marginal to frost that we will protect but this can get out of hand rapidly. 7) Cultivars and species that have multiple uses. 8) Wind resistant cultivars and species. 9) Cultivars and species tolerant of winter drought. We are particularly interested in persimmons, figs, surinam cherry (need cultivars), feijoa (need cultivars), and passiflora (need species and cultivars). We also are looking for good cultivars of loquat. Dan Hemenway ---- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:29:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Hemenway Welcome, Dan. I'll put your letter in the June 1 issue of Rare Fruit News Online, and I'm sure you'll get lots of help from our experienced grower-readers. I would think that raised beds would help somewhat, when the water table is high. There will undoubtedly be fruit that will not do well with too much moisture in the soil, such as papayas and avocado, and probably others. The chill requirements are about what we have in parts of California, and isn't a big barrier. I wouldn't think winter drought would ever be a problem for you. I don't know what the multiple-use requirement means. I would guess that more dwarfing trees would be more wind-resistant than taller ones, in general. Leo --------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 18:09:01 -0700 (PDT) From: libby@igc.apc.org (Libby J. Goldstein) Subject: Re: Layering edible fig Robert, You can air-layer most edible fig varieties, but the easiest way to propagate them is by simple layering...they often do it on their own...just take a low growing branch and bury part of it in the soil. It should strike roots in a couple of weeks...a month at the most. Then cut it off and plant it where you want it. Libby J. Goldstein phone & fax: 215-465-8878 Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32 My garden must be n-dimensional if it's out here in cyberspace. ----------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:25:25 -0700 From: "Matthew A. Franzino" Subject: new plantings Wondering if anyone has any expierence with two new additions to my jungle. Last week I planted a Mexicola Grande and a Ken's Red Kiwi. The Mexicola I have high hopes for since I've found 3 fruiting avocados within 6 blocks of my house. The Ken's Red I only know what I have seen in print, no first-hand expierence. Any comments? Matthew -------------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:47:23 -0400 Hi Leo, For RFNO: Regarding coconuts: In Florida they are grown along the coasts north to Cocoa Beach and Clearwater. You can find some growing further north if you look carefully. I know of very few growing in Orlando. In Texas, they are grown near the Rio Grande valley area, particularly in Brownsville. I have heard that there are some in southern California, but I have also heard that they do not survive for long there. I don't think that there are any in Arizona, but I might be wrong. Regarding an inconspicuous fruit tree: I would not recommend growing a longan in the front yard. There is a very good chance that neighbors will discover how good the fruit tastes, and they will keep coming back for more once they know about it. A few possibilities are: white sapote, black sapote, sapodilla, Surinam cherry, grumichama, tamarind, acerola, or tamarillo. I doubt that people will try these fruits, but you never know--to a Puerto Rican, the acerola is as familiar as the apple is to an Englishman. Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Response to newsletter Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 13:11:21 -0700 Hi Leo, How was your trip to the heartland? My trip to see Patrick was most enjoyable and he has a new email address specifically for the passiflora mail order business--wildridge@aol.com. A dollar sent to him will get a catalog of over 50 varieties and species of passifloras! [Note from Leo to readers: I've probably mentioned before that Patrick Worley knows more about passiflora than anyone I know. He's hybridized some that are well known. If you want to get passiflora or information about passiflora, contact him at the address: wildridge@aol.com.] To respond to some of the last newsletter items: Dave Moxley in Santa Cruz-- I would recommend trying something less fragile, like a guava relative until he moves back to San Diego. They could be left out most of the year and would fruit in a container easily. David, who lost his front yard guava-- sounds like he needs a guard dog chained to the tree! A macademia would be a good choice, or something that hides its fruit like a feijoa. Stef Van Uffel-- hardy kiwi plants can be bought from Hartman's Plantation, P.O. Box E, Grand Junction, Michigan 49056. Two female and one male plant cost $10. The passionfruit that he got seed from was most likely Passiflora mollissima. This is a cool grower that likes temperatures between 35 and 85 F. Once established it should be self fruitful. Stef should refer to Patrick Worley's email address above if more passiflora varieties are desired. Take care, Bob --------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 07:18:38 -0700 Hi Leo, A friend at work and I would like to locate a source of miracle fruit (the fruits), preferably in California. We want to do some experiments in the lab, so we need a couple dozen fruit. Possibly someone on the newsletter mailing list can help or knows someone with a fruiting bush. They can respond through the newsletter or to me directly at bholzing@amgen.com. Hope to see you soon! Bob ----------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 03:07:59 -0400 (EDT) From: David Rack Subject: Mulberries Dear Leo, Thanks for the information on Longans. There is now a six foot tree proudly standing in my front yard. I now have one spot left for one more tree. After experiencing my first tast of a mulberry last weekend, I've decided to plant one. The only problem is, where do I find mulberry trees for sale? Do you know of any nurseries that carry named varieties? From what I've heard, "Shangri-la" appears to be a good variety for Southern California. I live near Santa Monica, where there are rarely ever frosts or very hot days. Does anybody have any suggestions (and sources) of any superior varieties? Thanks, David Rack -------- Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 05:47:29 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Rack12@aol.com David, all mulberries should do well. Read to determine which ones you like. Some are sweet, but insipid. They all are deciduous (drop leaves in winter). Do you have lots of room? Some mulberry trees get quite large. Birds love them. I like the so-called Persian Mulberries, and there are named varieties. They get large, dark color, sweet, with a pleasant acid blend of flavors. (Watch where you plant them, as the dropped fruit can stain concrete-or children's clothes.) Many mulberries start readily from cuttings, in case you know someone who has a tree with desirable flavors. Having said all that, since mulberries will grow outside of our sub-tropical area, (almost everywhere in the U.S.A.) you might consider the many evergreen subtropical fruit trees, that won't grow out of our warm-winter area. I'll put your letter in the next Rare Fruit News Online. Hopefully, you'll get help from there, for finding mulberry trees, if you still want one, or perhaps you'll get suggestions of other trees or bushes with great fruit. Consider Cherry-of-the-Rio-Grande, Pitanga (Surinam Cherry), Capulin Cherry, maybe Che.... Leo --------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:04:41 -0700 From: Ed Hi Leo, Just thought I'd better check in with you since its been a while since we've touched base. We just returned from several weeks in La Paz, Baja Mexico, doing some TLC on our boat. I brought back some Mexican papaya seeds, dried properly of course, and have planted some in Jiffy Pots, following the directions about soaking in clorex, distilled water, and then sandpapering the seeds before planting. So will see how that turns out!!! Also will try some seeds from a Hawaiian solo papaya from Ralphs. Do you think it will be necessary to dry them first or should I just plant them after washing them thoroughly to remove the slime? I now have two solos and one babaco that have bloomed and have set fruit so will watch them very carefully! Still haven't figured out the proper watering schedule yet, so will just play it by ear. On the way back up the peninsula from La Paz we stopped in a Guerrero Negro motel for the night, and I saw what I considered an unusual sight. There was a papaya tree that had evidently been cut to about four feet above the ground, trunk maybe 4-5 inches in diameter, which had leafed out and had about ten fruits up to 3-4inches in diameter. That area being on the Pacific side with little rain, lots of fog, and pretty cool temperatures year round is not what I would consider ideal papaya climate so I'm encouraged about my area! Stay in touch. Ed Gribble ------------ From: Leo Sounds like an interesting trip, Ed! I would let the seeds dry out, to minimize mold, which can be fatal. Unlike many other sub-tropical seeds, they seem to keep their viability longer, so I don't think you're likely to hurt them. I have yet to eat a babaco that I liked. They have been only slightly flavored, mostly water. Most unlike the usual papaya. Have you eaten them? Until later, Leo ------ From: Ed Gribble No, haven't eaten them and I think you are right in that they aren't very tasty, but have pretty foliage. Saw the article about you in the CFRG magazine. Can you suggest a source for good mango plants? Ed ----- From: Leo Ed, in San Diego, there are several sources. I'll let the group make recommendations for places near you. Don Gholston seems to be a great resource for a lot of information. If you don't get a response, you might try asking him. There may be a CRFG page with nurseries? Do you have a local chapter of CRFG? You might try calling the president to see if he or she can recommend someone to help. Leo --------------------------------------- Finally, here's a mango check list from Yair. Compiling this list may have been part of Yair's PhD thesis! See which mango trees you don't yet have. It would be interesting to get feedback from you, with comments about the trees you know something about, the relative quality, in your opinion-maybe indicate whether disease prone, etc. I noticed the "Winters" mango listed. When I first acquired the tree, it was a Florida numbered variety, #20222. It has somewhat smaller fruit and is quite fragrant. It's one I like very much, and it is polyembryonic. From: Yair Aron (Ph.D.) Table 1. Mango cultivars and Mangifera species included in chloroplast DNA analysis. -------------------------------------------- No.-Cultivar/Seedling-Sources--Origin------- -------------------------------------------- MonoembryonicMangifera indica 1. Haden------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 2. Tommy Atkins-----I, Fac----Florida,USA 3. Maya-------------I, Fac----Israel 4. Edward-----------I, Fac----Florida,USA 5. Pinero-----------I, Fac----Puerto Rico 6. En Yahav 3-------I, Fac----Israel 7. Keitt------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 8. Irwin------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 9. Kent-------------I, Fac----Florida,USA 10. Pairi------------I, Fac----India 11. Brindibany-------I, Fac----India Polyembryonic Mangifera indica 12. 13/1-------------I, Fac-----Egypt 13. Bsor 7/32--------I, Fac-----Israel 14. Yasmin-----------I, Fac-----Israel 15. Yotvata 8--------I, Fac-----Israel 16. Yotvata 191------I, Fac-----Israel 17. En Yahav 4-------I, Fac-----Israel 18. En Yahav 5-------I, Fac-----Israel 19. Gyvataim---------I, Fac-----Israel 20. Turpentine Zill--I, Fac-----West Indies 21. Turpentine Miami-I, Fac-----West Indies 22. 4/9--------------I, Fac-----Kenya 23. Carabao----------I, Fac-----Philippines 24. Pico-------------I, Fac-----Philippines 25. Santaella--------I, Fac-----Puerto Rico 26. Kensington-------I, Bso-----Australia 27. Nam Doc Mai------I, Fac-----Thailand 28. Golelc-----------I, Fac-----Indonesia 29. Don Fernando-----PR, For----Puerto Rico 30. Colombo Kidney---PR, For----Ceylon 31. Mayaguez---------PR, For----Puerto Rico 32. Cubano-----------PR, For----Cuba 33. Manzano----------PR, For----Puerto Rico 34. Fasote-----------PR, For----Puerto Rico 35. Sabre------------I, Fac-----South Africa 36. Peach------------PR,For-----South Africa 37. Mora-------------I, Vol.----Costa Rica 38. Madam Francis----PR, For----Haiti 39. Gedong-----------I, Fac-----Indonesia 40. Kalpane----------I, Bso-----Thailand 41. Stringy----------I, Bso-----Jamaica 42. Black------------I, Bso-----Jamaica 43. Mango------------I, Bso-----Nigeria 44. Osabulu----------I, Bso-----Nigeria 45. Cherry-----------I, Bso-----Nigeria 46. Urnan------------I, Bso-----Nigeria 47. Ngowe------------I, Vol-----Kenya 48. Bombay S.A.------I, Vol-----South Africa 49. Olour------------LBso-------India 50. Faizanson--------I, Zn.-----Florida,USA 51. Katar Rum Rung---USA, Fla---Thailand 52. Hong Sa----------USA, Fla---Thailand 53. Praya Sowoy------USA, Fla---Thailand 54. Pam Kai Mia------USA, Fla---Thailand 55. Suwon Tip--------USA, Fla---Thailand 56. Kyo Sowoy--------USA, Fla---Thailand 57. Sang Tong--------USA, Fla---Thailand 58. Mamou------------USA, Fla---Thailand 59. Okrung-----------USA, Fla---Thailand 60. Leyat------------USA, Fla---Thailand 61. Pohn Sawadee-----USA, Fla---Thailand 62. Key Toop---------USA, Fla---Thailand 63. Nam Tan Teen-----USA, Fla---Thailand 64. Sad Lium Pua-----USA, Fla---Thailand 65. Madoe------------USA, Fla---Indonesia 66. Aroemanis--------USA, Fla---Indonesia 67. Saigon-----------USA, Da----Indochina 68. Winters----------I, Bso-----Florida,USA 69. Mistikawi--------I, Fac-----Egypt 70. Bullock's Heart--I, Fac-----Egypt 71. Gumera 1---------I, Fac-----Canary Islands 72. Warburg----------I, Fac-----Egypt 73. Yotvata 142------I, Fac-----Israel 74. Florigon---------PR, For----Florida,USA 75. Carnbodiana------USA, Fla---SE Asia 76. Saigon F2--------USA, Fla---SE Asia Mangifera species subgenus Mangifera 77. M. Iaurina 3--------PR,For---Malaysia 78. M. Iaurina 5--------PR,For---Malaysia 79. M. laurina 7--------PR,For---Malaysia 80. M. Iaurina 9--------PR,For---Malaysia 81. M. Iaurina 10-------PR,For---Malaysia 82. M. casturi---------USA,Fla---Malaysia  Subgenus Limus 83. M. odorata 1--------PR,For---Malaysia 84. M. odorata 2--------PR,For---Malaysia 85. M. odorata 4--------PR,For---Malaysia 86. M. odorata 8--------PR,For---Malaysia 87. M. caesia----------USA,Fla---Malaysia ---------------------------------------------------------- Country codes: I, Israel; PR, Puerto Rico; USA, United States of America. State or Department codes: Bso, Bsor; Fac, Faculty of Agriculture; Fla, Florida; For, Fortuna; Vol, Volcani Center; Zri, Zrifin >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - June 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 06/15/97 12 Reading: Have you read anything to pass along? The following may be of interest: Fruit Varieties Journal, April 1997 Page 76: UFGold Peach, 200 chill hours, just released in Florida by W. B. Sherman and P.M. Lyrene. Sounds like one several of us would like to own. Page 77:'Gitit' a New Surinam Cherry Cultivar (Isn't that a great name?) Gitit was selected in Naharia, northern Israel, and found superior to Necha, Lolita, and '404'(!) Fruit color is blood red. Taste varies from sweet-sour to sour-sweet in contrast to the other sour cultivars. It tends to be more sour in heavy soils. Can be harvested up to three days before maturity, with three-day shelf-life and two-week storage in refrigerators. It's adapted to all types of soils except highly calcareous. I hope it makes its way to Southern California. Page 117: Actinidia arguta - Characteristics Relevant to Commercial Production-Six cultivars of Actinidia arguta were grown in south coastal BritishColumbia and evaluated for yield, fruit development, and quality characteristics. Issai had a high vitamin C content, but flavour and appearance was higher for Geneva, Ananasnaya, and Dumbarton Oaks. --- Organic Gardening, July/August 1997, Page 18 - "Bounteous Bramble" Discussion of new Doyle Thornless Blackberry. 20 to 30 gallons from a single plant. Seven foot bush bears grape-like clusters with 20 to 100 berries per cluster. Sounds great, BUT the 4-inch pot price of $17.95 EACH sounds horrific. I'd like to have it, but I think I'll wait. Tropical Fruit News by Rare Fruit Council International May 1997: Page 7 Airlayering Made Easy, by William F. Whitman. Ahead of time, he fills and seals plastic bags with moistened sphagnum moss-moistened with a soluble fertilizer and rooting hormone. Then makes a cross-cut slice half-way across, and puts the sphagnum moss around the girdled limb. (I've seen this done by Tom DeHotal at Pacific Tree Farms, several years ago. It cuts down on the frustration of keeping the moss in place while positioning the plastic wrap and ties. Leo) Tropical Fruit News by Rare Fruit Council International April 1997: Page 5 "Revisiting the Miracle Fruit" by Donna McVicar Cannon I didn't know that this tree grows to a height of 18 ft in Africa. In the grove of William F. Whitman, (Florida) one is 16 ft tall! They begin to bear at 18 to 24 inches height, and sometimes as small as 7 inches. They have shown to be "a godsend" to at least cancer victim undergoing chemotherapy, which had destroyed the sense of taste. Pomona-Publication of NAFEX (North American Fruit Explorers) Spr 1997: Page 33 "Rooting Hormones May Increase Grafting Success" by Dr. James N. Cummins, N.Y. State Agricultural Experiment Station Seven varieties of apples were grafted, half of the trees had the cut side of the scion treated with a 2000 ppm solution of IBA (3-indolebutyric acid). Survival was greater for the IBA-treated grafts, and tree quality of the surviving grafts was equally striking. -------------------------- I have a question about mangoes. There is one in the Asian markets that is sold unripe. It's green with a slight red blush, and brings about 90 or more per pound. Does anyone know what variety this is? Few of the fruits look like they would have a viable seed, from which to grow a seedling. I found another one called Ataulfo, in an Asian market, pure yellow-gold skin, no blush. It ismentioned in Tropical Fruit News, I noticed later. It's described ashaving a pleasant sweet flavor when allowed to ripen. It came from Mexico. Another mango mentioned in Tropical Fruit News is Esperanza, from Mexico. It's used as an interstock for dwarfing mangoes. I'd like to know more about Esperanza. --------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 06:48:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Hi Leo: thanks for adding me to your newsletter. In a message dated 6/1/97 9:29:59 AM, you wrote: >Welcome, Dan. > >I'll put your letter in the June 1 issue of Rare Fruit News Online, >and I'm sure you'll get lots of help from our experienced grower- >readers. >I would think that raised beds would help somewhat, when the water >table is high. REPLY: We are building chinampas in some areas genuinely wet in the growing season. However I only know a few fruit that will tolerate having maybe onlya foot of drained growing medium above water table at the height of the growing season. We will be putting in as many mayhaws as we can afford, and probably other hatwthorns for medicinal purposes. Jujube, strangely, is reported to tolerate actual flooding in addition to serious drought--we may be eating a lot of jujube. I'm going to experiment with mulberries, plantingthe trees that we buy in places that I know are ok and putting cuttings onthe chinampas and in similar areas. Blueberries, being mat-rooted, can takevery high water table, but one only has time to pick so many blueberries. Ihave enough well drained space to grow all conventional fruit such ascitrus,peach, etc. There is a second part to the moisture problem, of course, and that is air moisture. We are unusually humid, even for Florida, and we need varieties that do well in humid air. Lots of fungal diseases can be a problem. Humidity is mainly an issue from dusk to dawn as we have strong westerlies most days. Bananas like it here, so long as we can keep them from frost and keep at least one of each variety where it never floods. Maybe it is not clear that a big part of my interest in wet tolerant, or better wet loving, fruits is that it enables us to use fruits in more settings, not that we don't have enough (for now at least) well drained area. Since most of the well drained area has a gentle easterly slope, we are rather well set. >>There will undoubtedly be fruit that will not do well with too >much moisture in the soil, such as papayas and avocado, and probably >others. The chill requirements are about what we have in parts of >California, and isn't a big barrier. >I wouldn't think winter drought would ever be a problem for you. << REPLY: Our water table dropped 4 feet this winter. That's a big adjustment for plants not evolved in such conditions. REPLY: In permaculture, we use everything in more than one way. A tree may be a good shade tree or it may have light shade that encourages growing cropsunder it. It can produce fuel, or have medicinal leaves, or serve as wind shelter for other trees. We need quite a lot of winbreak and it might aswell be from food trees as willows and locusts, etc. A tree might be a goodanimal forage, like a mulberry, which can be grown in the poultry pen.they'll pick up all the drops that I don't want anyway and the mulberrygrows better and shelters the brids and holds the bare soil that thepoultrydefoilate. Broadleafed trees, particularly deciduous, fast growing species,have a phenomenal effect on cooling an area. In hot climates, lots of treeshave been measured to reduce cooling loads by 30 to 50 percent--more ifthereis direct shade on the building. Wind resistant and wind fast are different properties, by the way. Kaki persimmons are sensitive to wind--they don't grow well in windy sites so I need other species upwind of them for shelter. Wind fast is another matter. In the tropics, you don't plant a mango by the house, despite thefantastic shade it casts, because they get massive and blow down in strong winds. Thisis where dwarf varieties might be useful, but dwarfs are more interesting to us because they are easier to protect from freezing. Hurricanes are another matter. They blow anything down--there is no preferred species. Tornados are worse. We have a comparatively high incidence of both here and it is hit or miss. Root crops are good survival insurance and a nursery bed for rootstocks, so that blown trees can be quickly regrafted. Thanks for your input. The newsletter is interesting. I think I will get more out of it as time goes along as I seem to have come into the middle of anumber of conversations and do not know about a few of the fruit you have been discussing at all. I'm happy to answer a reasonable number of questions pertaining to permaculture as my contribution, as I am still amassing information about growing in this provenance. Dan Hemenway ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 09:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Ted Kapantais I'm Ted Kapantais, and I live in Sarasota. Norman Rotabaugh told me about your newsletter. I have over 100 trees in the ground and many in pots. Among them are mangos,white sapote, lychee, loquat, presimmon, sugar apple, atemoya, carambola, jaboticaba, Asian pear, guave, fig, and sapodila. I'll send you the information on frost protection soon. Ted Kapantais -------------------------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 06/01/97 11 Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:40:18 -0400 I, too, am eager to hear about Ted's frost-protection system! It was very interesting to read about Dan Hemenway's microclimate. Do you live on an island, Dan? Regarding your question about what to plant, I would recommend most varieties of persimmons (they're perfect for central Florida), depending on whether you like the astringent or non-astringent types, 'Celeste' and 'Brown Turkey' figs, carambolas, lychees, longans, white sapotes, Surinam cherries (it's hard to find named cultivars), grumichamas, papayas, jujubes, pitombas, pineapples, calamondins, Mexican or Guatemalan avocados, and passion-fruit vines (the purple form of Passiflora edulis is good--plant as many varieties as possible). Feijoas can do well here, I have been told, but I have not had success yet. Apparently I need different cultivars to pollinate each other. The two that I have are probably the same cultivar. Loquats are also perfectly adapted to this climate: I recommend 'Premier,' 'Thales,' 'Oliver,' and 'Bartow.' Pomegranates would be good for dry areas in your yard. -- Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) --------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 23:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Moskowitz I bought a 'black persimmon' from a nursery in Ventura. Planted properly but the tree never did grow. Instead, there are shoots from the root stock. How can I save the effort, if at all? Joel Moskowitz ---------- Date: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 06:30:45 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Joel, if you know anyone with a black persimmon, you can graft a piece of it onto your rootstock. I think it's so much easier to graft onto young root suckers, than onto old wood, that when I need to graft over an older tree (almost any kind,) I usually cut back the older tree close to the ground, and graft onto the suckers that come up. You only need one successful graft on the rootstock, but I will often place two or three, to increase the odds of the graft succeeding. Of course, you could try returning the tree to the nursery. I'd call to ask what the policy on replacing trees that don't grow. Leo ----------- Date: Tue, 3 Jun 1997 19:44:25 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Good idea. Was planning to let the shoots develop anyway. Frankly I don't know much about black persimmons. So will turn to the written word and try to find out. The black persimmon was bought during a sojurn in Ventura. Not a place I frequent or like to. So giving it back to nursery not likely to happen. If you know of anyone with a black persimmon who would generously donate somewhich could be grafted onto the existing root stock, I would appreciate it. Thanks for your response. Best, Joel ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 22:57:58 -0700 From: Bart Tibbals My name is Bart Tibbals, I live in Lake County, Florida (Central Florida). I am growing Fuyu Persimmons. Currently I have around 300 trees that are 1 year old trees and just set out 260 native root stock seedlings that will hopefully be ready to bud the Fuyu to in September. I am interested in sharing tips and communicating problem solving with other persimmon growers. I am a member of the Florida Persimmon Grower's Association. We are wanting to make it known for anyone who is growing persimmons of all varieties. This chapter offers great support for the backyard grower as well as in my case a small a small commercial orchard of 10 acres. For more information about the FPGA, E-mail Lou Lowder (Secretary) at LLowder779@aol.com or Bart Tibbals (btibbals@unix.cde.com). Regards, Bart Tibbals ------------------------------------------ From: "Holzinger, Bob" Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:26:10 -0700 Hi Leo, Just a few comments to answer questions in the newsletter. To David Rack: The mulberry I really like is the "Pakistani". It's 2-3" long and even though it's a dark color, it doesn't bleed like the Black Persian. Another choice could be a white fruited cultivar, like "Phil's White" or "Giant White". They have no problem with the staining you see with most dark mulberry fruit and are very sweet. To Ed Gribble: To clean papaya seeds I just put them in a section of newspaper and roll the top sheets of paper around with my hands to break the little bag around each seed, then put the paper somewhere dry and cool for a couple of days. Once the seeds have dried I have found them to be viable for months and I have not have any problem with molds with this method. By the way, this is the way I harvest passiflora seeds for planting later. As for a mango source, I would recommend planting several seeds from good tasting polyembryonic mangos and then looking for a source of wood. If you don't find a source, then grow the seedlings. This will take more time then buying a grafted tree and in Southern California the sources I would check first are Exotica Nursery in Vista, Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista and Tim Thompson in Camarillo (the new mango expert for CRFG). Good luck! Talk to you later, Bob --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 15:39:41 UT From: "Eileen Czerniawski" Hi I'm growing citrus (orange, grapefruit, tangerine) and fig in Palm Bay, Fl. I have just purchased a Lychee tree and a Carambola. Also have banana trees that are slowly taking over the rear corner of my yard, but no bananas. Thanks for any help. Eileen ------------------------------------- From: "Chris Marrs" Subject: Jack fruit, Durian, Mangosteen Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 14:37:06 -0700 Hello, I have recently seen jack fruit trees for sale at some orange county nurseries. I am wondering if you know of anyone who has success growing them in Orange county. I am also interested in growing Durian and Mangosteen. (I have friends from Burma). I live in Foothill Ranch and am wondering about the tolerance of these trees to near freezing temperatures Sincerely Chris Marrs >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - June 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 07/01/97 13 Names of new subscribers show up with every issue. (I believe there are nine new ones this time!) Usually they have a particular focus, and perhaps a question that they want help them with. I hope that you won't let them down. Even if they don't have a particular question, if they live near you, maybe you could let them know? If you are a new subscriber and want back issues to January 1, please let me know. The file is large, maybe 270k, which is an issue if you subscribe to Juno. Remember to either cc ("carbon copy") me when you write to another subscriber, or send the mail for me to include in the next issue of RFNO. I use Netscape to send out this letter, and am continually bothered by little glitches. I paste copy into e-mail, with even margins, or fairly so, but as soon as it goes through the mail, it gets sloppy, with lines cut off with only a few characters, then continued on the following lines. Maybe it's not Netscape's fault? Is this something that happens with other e-mail software? ------------------------------------------------ The latest issue of Fruit Gardener, July/Aug 1997, has several interesting articles. There's a picture of Durian on the cover. The article headings include: Protecting Your Mulberry Crop - Five ways to scare (fool) the birds Che: a.k.a. Chinese Mulberry, by Don Gholston In Search of the "Black Doris" Plum Travel Tips for (Fruit) Lovers, by Peggy Winters. A Springtime Field trip to a Northern Calif. Garden The Indian Mulberry - The Fruit You Love To Hate (terrible tasting!) California Farm Conference Workshops (Mulching practices in orchards) What If? Looking at CRFG web page and its links. Cultivation of Hearts of Palm in Costa Rica 'Selma': The Pink-Fleshed Cherimoya (and its seeds for sale in the back) ------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Jun 1997 10:23:22 -0700 From: "Jose M. Gallego" Leo, Regarding the Ataulfo, I got a couple from Comercial Mexicana in Tijuana the same day we had the Fair at Quail. Before the wedding, we went there and purchased some items, among them were these mangos. They were sweet, juicy but small and with some fiber. I also got a box of the mangoes from CostCo, I planted 3 seeds and they are now about 6-8" tall, beautiful deep green leaves. I will keep you posted on those. I don't know what is their cultivar name. Take care, Jose ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Apr 1997 10:52:48 -0500 From: moshe nadler Hi Leo! Regarding the 'Gitit'. I'm an Israeli, I was born in Nahariya. The fruit is called Pitanga. I know the researcher who developed this cultivar. His name is Dr. Emanuel Lahav. The name he gave to this cultivar is the name of his wife. (I'm his son's friend so I even ate some fruits from the Gitit trees that are in his garden...) Moshe >Hi, Moshe! > >I have pitanga (surinam cherry) trees, and really like some of them. > >Did you find the cultivar to be better than most others? > >Leo Leo, I find the gitit, much better then the others. In Israel I used to make very good jams from it. moshe ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:00:07 -0700 (PDT) From: mshugart@ucsd.edu (Matthew Shugart) I am intrigued any time I read of a new low-chill stone fruit. Do you have any more information about the UF Gold? My primary specialty is stone fruits. I have a high-density backyard orchard in Carlsbad, Calif., about 1.5 miles from the ocean in a low-lying area where a surprising amount of chilly air settles in the winter. Right now, I am just beginning to harvest apricots from an old tree of unknown variety that I "inherited" when I bought the property in 1995. It appears not to be a Royal (Blenheim) but rather a Newcastle, though as an older tree I suppose it could be some strain of Royal that is no longer widely available. It is later by a week or more than my Royal or the other apricots around the area, which I presume are mostly Royals. It has a duller color, and a slightly milder flavor. All that seems to fit book descriptions of Newcastle, but it is hard to be sure. Whatever it is, it sure is enjoyable to harvest fresh apricots from the tree! Does anyone have any experience with a peach called 'Shanghai'? This is a variety that is supposed to be low-chill (300 hours, says L.E. Cooke and good for zone 24, says Sunset) and very tasty, as well as probably the latest ripening low-chill peach. I have one that I planted from a 5 gallon can late last winter but it has been sort of staggering, almost like a tree that did not get enough chill. (I know my area and the location of the nursery exceed 300 hours by a good margin.) It is sending out vigorous new shoots now, but was still dormant in late April! It has one fruit on it, even though the older wood has very little foliage (but still all appears viable). I checked at the nursery where I bought it and their remaining trees are all in the same condition. So I wonder if anyone has grown it and found it to be either higher in chill than indicated or just exceptionally late to start growing in the spring. My first try at grafting has been pretty successful. I grafted five scions of various plum and apricot varieties on to some of my young plum and apricot trees. Three of them (Methley, Howard Miracle, and Satsuma plums) have taken! One was growing within six days and I could hardly believe my eyes! The last one took about five weeks. Chris Marrs had a question about jackfruit trees. I wonder where in Orange County he saw them being sold? I know that Dave Silber (Papaya Tree Nursery in Granada Hills) sells them, but he also says that he knows of no producing trees in California outside of greenhouses. Chris also asks about mangosteen. There was a thread on this topic a few months ago on the USENET site alt.agriculture.fruit and the consensus seemed to be that only in a location as warm as the Florida Keys would mangosteen be successful in the mainland states (I guess the Keys aren't exactly "mainland"!). I'd be very curious to know if anyone has any more promising information about jackfruit or mangosteen. I hope in a week or two to be able to report on my attempts at growing pluots! Good growing. Matthew Shugart ------------------------------------- To: chrismarrs@pcmagic.net From: moshe nadler Hi! I read your letter at Leo's site. Regarding your question - don't even think twice about growing mangosteens or durians if the temperature in your area will get close to frost. You can grow avocados (some cultivars, and also depend on the period of time you have a frost), or try other sub-tropical fruits, but tropicals such as the above will be killed by frost. Sincerely Moshe ----------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 08:45:59 -0400 From: W. B. Sherman Subject: Re: Low-Chill Stone Information Sought Send me your address and I'll mail you the info on UFGold peach. Some budwood is being cut now under contract with the FFSP,Inc. (info included) for nurseries but probably will not be available to the general public in quantity till winter 98-99 as budwood is now being increased and because of a short supply of nematode resistant seed this year (Nemaguard was frozen out in Georgia and SE US last year resulting in few available for this years budding). We expect UFGold to be grown where Flordaglo is successful. regards, wbs you wrote: >I want to get more information about the new peach, UF Gold, for our >newsletter, Rare Fruit News Online. The newsletter is directed >primarily at growers of subtropical fruit, but many of them are >keenly interested in growing low-chill stone fruit. > >I'd like a source of information about all such releases from the >University of Florida. > >Thanks for your help, and for your research into low-chill peaches. > >Leo UFGold info is in the mail. Burchell Nsy. has propagation rights and he just got budwood so it may be a year before he builds it up enough to bud any supplies. regards W. B. Sherman ---------------------------------- 'UFGold' Peach W. B. SHERMAN AND P. M. LYRENE 'UFGold' is an attractive, high quality' yellow and nonmelting flesh peach released by the Florida Agricultural Experiment Station. 'UFGold' is expected to produce fruit with a tree ripened full flavor while retaining firmness for longer shelf life than fruit from conventional melting-flesh, fresh market varieties. 'UFGold' originated from a cross of two Florida selections with nonmelting FIesh (Figure 11. The seed parent was of Brazilian origin (Diamante open pollinated) and the pollen parent originated by open pollination of a seedling obtained by crossing a Florida selection (not carrying a nonmelting flesh allele) and a North Carolina selection (apparently heterozygous for the nonmelting allele). 'UFGold' was selected from about 100 sibs as the twenty-fourth selection in 1990 and thus designated Fla. 90-24c for testing. The major advantages of 'UFGold' are a low chilling requirement, early ripening, a nonmelting flesh, and an attractive skin exhibiting 70-90% bright red over an orange yellow ground color. Trees are estimated to require 200 chill units, the same as 'Flordaglo' peach. 'UFGold' has fruited where the coldest month averages 16 to 17C and in colder locations in the absence of spring frosts. This corresponds to the area from Orlando to Leesburg in Florida. Full bloom generally occurs in early February, an fruit ripens in late April to early May in this area, about 80 lays after full bloom and about five days before 'Flordaglo.' Trees are semi spreading and are easily pruned to a vase shape. Trees set a high number of flower buds, have few blind nodes, and exhibit little bud failure. Fruit have averaged about 110 grams and 2X inches diameter where fruit were thinned to 6 to 8 inches apart. Fruit shape is nearly round and flesh contains little red on non- stressed trees. Flesh is nonmelting and clingy with a little separation from the stone when soft ripe. Pits have shown little tendency to split, even when crop loads were low. Leaves have small, reniform petiolar glands. Flowers are showy and pink. Anthers are mostly yellow with little anthocyanin and pollen is bright yellow and abundant. Leaves and fruit are moderately resistant to bacterial spot. A plant patent has been filed for 'UFGold' and a propagation agreement is available through Florida Foundation Seed Producers, Inc., P0. Box 309, Greenwood, FL 32443. Budwood is non-indexed, but Florida stonefruit germplasm has been found to be mostly virus free in countries that routinely quarantine and index. ---------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 20:58:27 -0400 From: Ricky Maseda Dear Friend: I am a rare fruit grower in Florida and would like to be put on your mailing list. I am a member of CRFG & 2 local clubs - Rare Fruit Council International - Tampa Bay Chapter & The Manatee RFCI. Sincerely yours, Ricky Maseda Tampa, Florida ---------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:42:42 -0600 From: Terry Bordelon Leo..... Sounds like your mailing list may be helpful in my attempts at a low maintenance fruit orchard. I am trying to remain organic and desire species which will do well without non-organic inputs. I am located in SW Louisiana, zone 7/8. I presently have native persimmon, fig, Oriental apple type pear. I am interested in adding other varieties, especially jujube which used to be common in Louisiana when I was a child but is rare at this time. Merci......terry Bordelon ------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 22:52:31 -0700 From: Mike Lima Hi Leo, My name is Michael, and I followed a link on the CRFG website to yours. I've been a member of CRFG for a few years now. I live in the San Bernardino area. I am interested in info on growing rare fruits, in particular the sugar apple (annona squamosa). I obtained seeds of a delicious sugar apple fruit about 6 weeks ago which I planted after about 1 week, but as yet there is no sign of germination. Is anyone growing sugar apples here in southern California? I would sure like to know about any special care they may require. Thank you, Mike --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:31:00 +0300 From: Haidar Nesheiwat Subject: Guava Dear Leo; My name is Haidar Nesheiwat; I live in Amman Jordan. I have a farm with almost 2000 tree of guava over ten year and about 10,000 tree about 3 years old; the farm is located 3 miles east of the dead see in Jordan. It is about the international sea level. I am interested in find out as much as i can about it; especially how to market it and how to process it. It has been few month trying to find out what does it take to make guava puree and what kind of machine or equipment is needed and how to handle it. Thanks for putting my name on your list. Haidar R. NESHEIWAT -------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 13:59:47 -0400 (EDT) From: GKapantais@aol.com Subject: frost protection Here's the information about my frost protection system. Sorry I took so long, but I've been busy. I have developed a system that works for me. So I'm not recommending this system to anyone else, but merely sharing it with you for information purposes. Here in Sarasota, the cold fronts usually come from the northwest. So the first thing I did was to plant a windbreak of evergreen viburnum odorodum, which now are about 14 feet tall. On the west side, I have a natural Florida "jungle". I use two high and low thermostats, which are made for controlling automatic ventilation or heating in livestock barns or poultry houses. I can set them from 30 degrees F. to 110 degrees (0 to 43 degrees C.). These thermostats are very easy to install. The first one I put above my water valve. I simply disconnected one of the two wires that works the valve and I went first to the thermostat and then back to the valve. I set this thermostat at 34 degrees F. The second thermostat, which operates like a switch on my electrical line, controls the 100 watt light bulbs. I set this second thermostat at 36 degrees F. I use several different types of frost protection. The first is the windbreak mentioned above. The second involves the fertilization of my trees for the last time in the fall. I use very low nitrogen but high in potash and minor elements. Third, I water the ground under my trees one or two days before frost is predicted. Fourth, I use misters for trees that can take water, such as mangoes, litchis, (not the Mauricius because their branches break easily from ice load), carambolas, guavas, etc. For these young trees 10 feet or less in height, I add covers that I have made of Typar. The second thermostat controls my light bulbs to protect the water sensitive trees, such as white sapote, sugar apples, etc. On the big trees, I use 4 100 watt bulbs only. Unbelievable as it may seem, it works for me. Could it be that the glow of the light bulbs awakens the trees and the chlorophyll in the leaves starts moving and the movement of the chlorophyll creates sugar, which creates heat, which adds some degrees of warmth and protection to the trees? On the water sensitive trees that are 10 feet or less tall, I add covers I've made out of inexpensive 4 mill plastic. What frames do I use to hang these covers on? The frames are made of 4 18 inch long PVC pipes which I drive into the ground, leaving 12 inches empty of soil. I place them 8 feet apart, creating a square. In them I insert 4 EMT pipes 3/4 inch or 1 inch by 10 feet long on top of the frame. I connect the EMT pipes with 2 10 feet long thin wall PVC pipes, which at the ends, I put elbows with 6 inch PVC attached to them. I set the frames up all winter long, and I remove them in spring, when the possibility of frost is gone. In the 6 years since I started growing tropical fruit trees, I've had one 22 degree advective freeze, twice a 23 degree radiant frost, and several times temperatures from 26 degrees to 34 degrees F. So far, one Mamay Sapote (Pantin), loaded with fruit, one Longan (Kohala) and two big leaf Jaboticabas were damaged 3 feet above the ground. It was 22 degrees F advective freeze . All I used was 4 100 watt light bulbs on each one. One of my 2 Baileys Marvel mango is loaded with beautiful tasting mangoes again. Six months ago its flowers survived 22 degrees F radiant frost with one mister underneath and a second above it. Two winters ago, it survived again (with a 22 degree F. advective freeze), this time with no other protection than 4 100 watt light bulbs. Only small outside branches were frozen. As for my Nam Doc Mai mango, the ice put it into dormancy, but this year on the 15th of March, I sprayed one of the three main branches with calcium nitrate. Now that branch is loaded with flowers and small mangoes (pea size), while the rest of the tree is still in dormancy. In my yard, the small leaf Jaboticabas fare much better in the cold than the big leaf. Also the same with the Brewster litchi, which fares better than the other 9 varieties that I have. I also have better success with the Bailey's Marvel and Valencia Pride mangoes. Next winter I'll find out about its offspring, the Valcarrie. (ValCarrie sounds like a mango I'd like. Leo) Hope this info is useful to you. --------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 15:21:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Hoy Yes, please put me on your mailing list. I'm am interested in Passion fruit. "Jack Fruit" Grenadine, Spanish Lime, and Soursop. Thank you, Tim Hoy ----------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 14:56:49 -0400 From: Bill Lady Dear Leo: I purchased a beautiful and healthy looking 7 ft. litchee plant today. The person at the nursery didn't know anything about the plant, but it has a tag, "Brewster". I can't seem to locate a web site I have previously visited which has a lot of information on the litchee, longan, and other plants I am interested it. Apparently I have lost the bookmark I had on this site. I planted a litchee of unknown variety two years ago, and a cold snap killed it. I wonder if you can tell me anything about the Brewster variety, especially its fruit characteristics and quality and its cold hardiness. I am in Punta Gorda, Florida, at the lower edge of Zone 9. We seem to have a light freeze or two each winter. I have a longan which is doing exceptionally well, and I have high hopes for this new litchee. Thanks for keeping me on your list, and best regards. Bill Lady ---------- Bill, I just paid $70 for one about that size. Brewster seems most reliable in all around performance. Did you follow any leads from CRFG? http://www.crfg.org/ They are likely to lead you where you want to go. I've found other links, just fooling around, but it would take a while to find them again. Anyway, I believe you'll be happy with that selection, and I hope El Nino doesn't bring a freeze that kills it. It is threatening to be a bad winter, from the newscasts. I'll include your question in the next newsletter. Your welcome! Leo ------ Dear Leo: Thanks for your reply. After sending the message to you I did a few searches using the preferred spelling (lychee), and rediscovered the crfg web site. This is the one I had used previously, and it's back in my bookmarks again. I also found several other sites which you may be interested in following up on: http://www.tropical fruit.com http://www.milcom.com/ace/world/rap/lychee.HTML http://safarinet/~lychee/ The milcom site is informative since it covers the production and trade by countries and areas. I am not going to put in a commercial grove, but found these details very interesting. For some reason, the bearing season in Israel is different from other locations in the northern hemisphere and their fruit sells at a premium. lychees were originally planted in Honduras by United Fruit Company on an experimental basis, but the groves were never enlarged and developed for the export market. All of the production is sold locally at a good price, and I don't believe any are exported. These are grown in the Sula Valley, which is near sea level, very hot, and with a high rainfall. The CRFG site mentions an ideal chill factor of 200 hours, and this is certainly not met where they are grown in Honduras, since the temperature never gets below about 60 degrees F. Apparently the chill factor is unimportant, or the Honduran trees may be of a variety which doesn't require this. I have seen the groves in Honduras, but have never heard what variety is grown there.=20 The tropical fruit site, in Ft. Lauderdale, has some interesting photographs. They sell 8 foot trees for $150.00, so the price you paid for your tree seems reasonable. I paid only $40.00 for my 7 ft. tree at a very small local nursery for some reason, and it is a very fine plant. They only had three plants in stock, and I was surprised to find them available locally. Best regards, Bill ----------------------------------------- From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (Bill Monroe) Subject: Subject of Rare Fruit Hello, My name is Bill Monroe and I live in Palm Bay, Florida. I use to landscape with ornamentals but in the last three years discovered edible landscaping. Edible landscaping eventually brought me to rare fruits. In my not-so-big backyard I am growing: Carombola (Carrie, Feung Tung) Papaya (Solo) Jaboticaba lychee Guava (Pineapple and yellow) Longan White Sapote (mine withstands the cold) Barbados cherry Sugar Apple Banana (Orenoco, Praying hands, apple, mysore) Eventually these trees will become very large, but with me planting and collecting rare fruits is an obsession (My wife agrees. Ha!). I am interested in new varieties of carombola and passion fruit. In addition, how have others fared in growing and fruiting the white sapote? Myself and other members of the Brevard county rare fruit council are heavy into mulching. Some of us have mulched our entire backyards with free city mulch to a depth of 2.5 feet. Why? John Rodgers, the first one to do this has been very successful with this method. John mimics the natural jungle environment by planting tropical fruit trees very close together, and with the mulch he never waters or fertilizes. Granted everything looks crowded, but so does the jungle. John's fruit are always large and tasty. Has anybody else tried this method to its extreme? Best Regards Bill Monroe wmonroe@harris.com Palm Bay, Florida P.S. Please subscribe me to the "Rare Fruit News Online". Thank you. -------------------------------------- Date: Fri Jun 20 09:04:28 1997 From: Holzinger, Bob Leo, I have a couple of H. undatus plants, but they haven't flowered much so I can't say if they are self-fruitful or not. George Emerich has a huge plant growing in the jacaranda tree in his driveway area and he says he gets fruit, but you'll have to ask him if it's self-fruitful. The flowers are spectacular and from what little fruit I have tasted, I would say the same of it. Good luck in the search. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:59:12 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Dear Leo I have a half dozen types of hylocerus growing in Studio City under adverse circumstances -- but I know little about them. I got them from Paul Thomson who knows a lot about them. I was over there one day after he had been pruning the collection he has and had a pile of trimmings. I asked for samples and of course he obliged and the all rooted eventually -- it took one of them more than a year. Unfortunately I no longer have his comments as to their identity, but he is the guy to see on this. He said that they do grow these for fruit in Columbia. The other guy is Dave Silber who sells a couple of different kinds commercially. Bob --------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 08:10:29 -0700 From: George Emerich Leo: I am a novice as far as Hylocerus species are concerned. My mentors are Paul Thompson, Dave Silber and Gene Friedlander. I think that the Colombian specimen may be the one that Paul mentioned last night as one that Dave & Tina have. Unfortunately, none of those worthies have email at the moment I don't believe. George ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Jun 1997 12:01:25 -0700 (PDT) From: mshugart@ucsd.edu (Matthew Shugart) Yes, Pitahaya (I think that is the correct spelling) is outstanding. I first tasted it in Nicaragua in 1989. There may be different varieties, but I do not know. I recall an article some years ago in Fruit Gardener. I have some growing in my yard, but no fruit yet. I got mine from one of Exotica's main competitors, Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista. Matthew Shugart -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 15:00:39 -0700 From: Jim Meadows I talked with the people at the booth at the Del Mar Fair and they suggested I post my problem here. I have three Macadamia nut trees, two are a commercial variety and bear their fruit all at one time, and one tree bears nuts almost year round. The latter tree even though the nuts are normal size and look good when I crack the the meat is split in two pieces and dry (chewy). About 75% of the nuts are this way. One on the commercial trees is right next to this tree and has no problems. This problem has only occurred the last two years. Up till then the nuts were great with yields of 90% or more. Thanks in advance for the help. Jim Meadows --------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:58:41 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Leo, I would appreciate any of the readers comments, lessons learned, best practices on growing and fruiting "Carombola" and "White Sapote". I live in Palm Bay, Florida on fairly high ground. My carambolas and white sapotes are heavily mulched. 1. How often do I fertilize? 2. What are the best (sweet) varieties (Subjective, I know )? Any information would be much appreciated. Thank you. Best Regards, Bill Monroe ------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:42:26 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Moshe Nadler Subject: Mango seedlings that die young. Moshe, probably 2/3 of the mangoes I grew from seedling last year, died. Those that died were not vigorous growers from the beginning, but died several months after coming up. What soil (mix?) do you use, or fungicide, to keep the damping off (if that's what it is) from happening? I sprouted my most recent seeds in perlite, but will transplant them into larger pots and into a soil mix. At what age or size do you graft them? I usually wait until a seedling is about 2 feet tall. Leo ---------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:08:26 -0400 From: moshe To: Leo Manuel Hi Leo! We use a soil mix that we buy from 'fafard'. It's called growing mix. But you can use any other mix. I would combine the perlite with peat moss and sand, or vermiculite. We almost don't spray the seedlings in the greenhouse, but we try not to irrigate them to much in order not to get the diseases. We graft the seedlings when they are big and thick enough, I think that 2' is OK. And a diameter of about 1/2". Anyway, transplant the seedlings at least one month before grafting. Let the plant arrange it root system first. From the literature I can tell you that it's better to leave the seedling at least 6 months from germination (a year is better), and then graft it. Less then 6 months grafts, are less successful. If you expect high humidity after grafting, also don't graft, wait for dry season. Moshe ----------------------------------------- From: "Ronald Lyn" Subject: Lychee Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:06:55 -0500 Hi, I was wondering can anyone tell me if they know of any dwarf varieties of Lychee. That would seem to be the perfect potted fruit tree, if there only was such a thing. Thanks Leo, Ronald Lyn ----------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:36:42 +0000 To: Holzinger, Bob [Note: Bob's the passiflora man] Subject: Recommend a passiflora to climb in my Inga? Bob, is there a passiflora that requires partial shade, that would be good to climb in a tree? I'd like for the fruit to be less sour than most, if possible, and attractive flowers would also be good. Leo --------------------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passiflora from heaven Hi Leo, I'm sorry, God hasn't delivered the prodigal passiflora yet, you'll just have to wait for it like the rest of us mortals. The ultimate cool grower according to Patrick is a new hybrid that he and Rick McCain have in Watsonville, but are not ready to release. It is the following crosses: ((P. mollissima x P. mixta) x P. manicata) x P. ampulacea. The flower won't be that great (light green to white in the Tacsonia tubular form) but the fruit is supposed to be good and the vine is supposed to be self-fruitful. I have a picture of the flower and hopefully will get to taste a fruit sometime this year, but we'll see. In the meantime your only choice may be P. ligularis. It will take shade and has a nice flower and a great fruit. The only drawbacks are it's slow growth and that it may need a cross pollinator. Since bees don't seem to do the job in this neck of the woods, I don't think you want to climb up in a tree to hand pollinate the flowers. There are other Tacsonias that are reported to have good tasting fruits, but they are hard to find and equally hard to grow (they don't like our water). So I'll keep you posted on the developments up north. A passiflora you may want to try since it is quite warm at your place is P. serrato-digitata. It needs to get big before it flowers, but the smell of the flower is worth the wait and the fruit is supposed to be good. Ben Poirier in Fallbrook has propagated it and he may be talked into a trade if you have something he's interested in. Give him a call at 751-1605. Later, Bob ------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:33:34 +0000 Subject: Is the Capulin is self-fruitful? I gave a friend a Capulin Cherry, probably Fausto seedling. It isn't very old, but he wants me to find out whether the Capulin is self-fruitful (as I have guessed) or needs a pollinator. Of course, it could vary from variety to variety. I have three varieties (Fausto, Fausto, and Ecuadorian), so I can't tell by my own experience, and the references I have say a lot of things, but not whether they are self-fruitful. For me, the Harriet is earlier than either of the others. Leo -------------------------------------- To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Inga Tree From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 15:31:31 EDT Leo, At the San Diego CRFG meeting, I won something that Jim Neitzel identified as an Inga tree. When I was at your house buying plants last month, it seemed as though you had one in your front yard. What can you tell me about its care and feeding? You also said you published an newsletter. Could I get added to its distribution? Bill Burson PowayBill@juno.com --------- Bill, I planted my Inga, by chance, in the only place in my whole yard that it should be planted. Be very sure you want such a tree, as it grows fast, large, spreading, and develops the "Ice Cream Bean" for which it is (in)famous. This can detract from the overall beauty of the tree. Mine was in a five-gallon pot only five years ago, and now it is (hard to estimate) maybe 20 feet tall and as wide. The bloom is similar to that of Rose Apple, briefly beautiful, slight aroma. The beans are about 12 inches in length, with a diameter of 1.5 inches. The "stuff" surrounding the seeds, inside the bean pods is sweet - kids like it. For me, it's worth growing for the shade and overall beauty. For care, I'd say it doesn't want much. I give it only a moderate amount of water, and little fertilizer. I'm frequently pruning it as it gets over the street and driveway. Neighbors and visitors of neighbors like to park in front of the house in the shade. In other words, be very sure you want the tree in the place you're about to plant it. It isn't worth growing for the bean pods, but it is an excellent front-yard shade tree. And, thanks for your contributions to this newsletter already! Leo --------------------------------------------------------- Correspondence between Bill Burson and Don Gholston about Che, provided by Bill: From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) To: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Che questions I bought 2 plant about three years ago from Exotica Nursery in Vista, CA. One each male and female, they are planted about 12-18 inches from each other. I have two questions: If one is male and the other female, why do they both bear fruit equally? I've heard the best method of propagation is air layering, what is the best time of the season to begin this? Bill Burson --------------------- On Sun, 29 Jun 1997 00:58:52 -0400 (EDT) DGholston@aol.com writes: Dear Bill: If you are getting fruit, there must be a male and a female lurking somewhere. Possibly one or both plants is bearing both male and female flowers. Have you read my article on the che in the July-Aug. Fruit Gardener? It describes what male and female flowers look like. It also discusses propagation. Che cuttings root so easily, I would not recommend the bother of air layering. Regards. Don Gholston ---------------------- From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) To: DGholston@aol.com (Don Gholston) Thank you for your quick response, 1) Should I Root hardwood or softwood? 2) Yes, I was reading you article in FG. Excellent job. My confusion was why both were fruiting equally? Bill Burson ------------------------------ From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) To: llowder779@aol.com Cc: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Chocolate Persimmon I have had a grafted tree in my yard for ~ 3 years. Each flowering cycle I get lots of blossoms but no fruit ever sets. My Fuyu P., Black Sapote and Chico Sapote all flower and set. The Chocolate P. is probably only 20 feet from the others. Any suggestions for next season? Bill Burson --------------------- Jim Neitzel has just obtained a 386 Windows 95 computer, has an e-mail address, and will be among our grower-reader subscribers. He and Don Gholston are both walking encyclopedias of information about things botanical. I'll swear that Jim knows more about the trees in my own yard than I do. While I'm reaching for the name tags, he'll already have identified them! Jim hasn't ever used a computer and is intimidated by everything thrown at him at once. He has Word Perfect, but no manual for it, and expects to buy a manual. I've had the notion that there must be lower-level word processors that are so intuitive that you don't need a manual. If you know anything about the ease and utility of any of them, would you let me know, before I install them on his computer? Jim's a great friend and I sure want him to succeed in "telecommunicating" as I'd very much like his input in this newsletter. His email will be: jneitzel@juno.com Leo ------------------------------------- Subject: horticultural tour.HTML Here's a site I just stumbled across. Perhaps it's been noted before, but I don't recall. It sounds as if it could lead to several bits of interesting information, but I've only scanned across some of the topics. It's called horticultural tour.HTML, and some of the information available is below: HortGuideŽ:Ethnobotany http://www.horticulture.com/tour.HTML What is Ethnobotany & Why is it so Important The Food Plant Database The Native Tech Home Page The Laboratory of Ethnobotany @ the University of Michigan Anne Arbor American Indian ethnobotany Missouri Botanical Garden EthnoMedicinals Home Page Medical Plant Images Plants of the Machiquena, an Ethnobotanical Study of Eastern Peru Kew Ethnobotany Ethnobotany ETHNOBOTANY PROJECT 1996-1997 Institute of Traditional Medicine CyberBotanica- Plants and Cancer Treatments- Indiana University The Sego Ethnobotany Project The Ethnobotany Cafe >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - July 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 07/15/97 14 My Rose Apple tree is coming in, with quite a few fruit. For those who don't know, the rose apple smells like a fragrant rose, and tastes the way a rose smells, if you can imagine. I enjoy eating them out of hand, but I've never seen recipes for doing anything else with them. I'd expect that candied they'd be tasty. I'm disappointed that my mango crop is going to be so small this year. Maybe 25 fruit or possibly a few more, as opposed to 175 last year. I think it's water and fertilizer that I needed to apply more of and sooner. At least two trees didn't even bloom! I bought a grafting tool (Field Craft's Topgrafter) from A.M. Leonard (I believe it was) a while back, after hearing several local CRFG members talk about it, and the local chapter even bought one. Anyway, after trying it a few times, I don't really like it, and will probably sell it. If you have used it, what's your opinion? Are you getting better takes? I can see that it might be faster, but I don't have the same confidence that I've had over the years. If I'm going to take time to graft, I want it to have the highest possible probability of succeeding. I appreciate the cc's you've sent when writing to each other. I try to include the letter in the next newsletter. And for those who have sent to me the mail for other growers, I have immediately sent a copy to the intended person, and kept one to include in this newsletter. When you come across information that would be of interest to the group, please send it along. If you're not sure, send it anyway, and I'll check it out. ------------------------------------------- Date: Mon Jun 30 20:08:19 1997 From: "Oliver Patterson" My fig trees are not doing well at all. The leaves are turning brown and falling off. I am guessing that the problem is fig rust, but it's possible that nematodes are causing the damage (or contributing to it). I'm not sure. I have sprayed the leaves but this has done little good; perhaps because it rains every day here. Any ideas? Oliver Patterson ----------------- To Bart From Oliver Patterson I live in Lake County, too, and I think that this area is perfect for growing persimmons. I would love to see your orchard and (if possible) buy some fruit from you when your trees begin producing. I planted two persimmon trees today, but I am doubtful of their survival. One of them had a taproot that must have been at least 3 feet long coiled on the bottom of the container. I had to prune it severely. The tree's leaves have already begun to turn brown and fall off. I am hoping for a miracle. Oliver Patterson ----------- To Eileen From Oliver Patterson I am growing lychees and carambolas, too, though I have to worry about severe freezes while you don't! If you have any questions about their culture, let me know. On second thought, perhaps I am not a good person to ask--one of my lychee trees has lost all its leaves within the past week! Oliver Patterson ------------ To Chris From Oliver Patterson Durians and mangosteens are "ultratropicals" that cannot be grown anywhere in Florida except for possibly (with luck and much care) Miami Beach and the Keys. Jakfruit can be grown in southern Florida rather easily by comparison, and in Orange County with good protection against freezes. I encourage you to try your luck with the jakfruit. It's a fascinating tree. I am eager to hear about your experiences in growing any of these trees. Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (USDA zone 9--Sunset zone 26!) --------------------------------- Subject: Pluots From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 01:02:59 EDT I was @ 99 Ranch in SD last Friday and they had Pluots (& plumcots), I have read about them before but never tasted them. NOW I MUST HAVE A PLUOT TREE!!! Does anyone know any "cheap" (or even reasonable) sources in San Diego? 99 Ranch also had Lychees for only $2.99/lb. Quite tasty, I've only had them canned before and I'm not sure I can ever go back. The hard thing will be hiding them from my wife & kids now that they have sampled their nectar. Bill Burson ------------ Bill, plumcots, which include Pluots, are usually shy bearers, and slow to begin to bear. If you have room (and patience) to spare, by all means try one. When you talk to Jim, ask where he'd expect to find reasonably priced trees. Leo ------------------------------- Subject: Passion Fruit From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 01:21:44 EDT Leo, I agree w/ the response that you received that P. Ligularis from Ben P. may be the answer. I just planted one under a fig tree and have grand hopes... 1) Ben has quite a collection, if you haven't visited his place, you should. The North SD County CRFG chapter is having a picnic @ his place in August. 2) Somebody @ the Balboa Park meeting mentioned that Amazon Books (Amazon.com) had "Passion Flowers by John Vanderplank" for less than $32.00. I went home and ordered it. It came in today, if you haven't seen it, it is beautiful. All color, all coated pages, lots of very specific information. Buy it, borrow it, steal it if you must (just kidding, go to a library). (Note: I got one also, and $32 includes everything in California. It is volume 2. I also have volume 1. Leo) ps, regarding the Durian plant, burn it, then bury it deep. (yeech!) C-YA, Bill Burson ----------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 05:43:19 +0000 From: MonaLisa Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 06/15/97 12 Greetings to all! Reference the Surinan Cherry 'Gitit' a New Surinam Cherry Cultivar, can this be ordered from that publication? Thanx, Monalisa ---------- No, Monalisa, it is a professional journal that reviews new releases of fruit trees and plants. I don't know any place where it will be for sale in this country. I also want to find the tree or seeds from it. Leo ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 06:00:57 +0000 From: MonaLisa Subject: Mango Hi, I really enjoyed the info on mangoes in the last news letter. In Florida, (Bradenton area) I grew up eating mangoes that were larger, yellow & sweet. North of Florida, all I find is a smaller, greener fruit. Can anyone tell me the name & where to find the mango I describe? Also, approximately how many years before a mango seedling becomes a fruit bearing tree? Thanks, Monalisa:) ----------- Monalisa, I'd visit the area where you lived and either talk to nursery people there, or neighbors who might know the name of the tree you want to find. It's possible that the mango is available for sale in the nurseries there. Perhaps our Florida readers will have an idea as to what the tree was. There are several mangoes that are larger, yellow & sweet, so you need to know the name, if possible, to ensure you get the tree you remember. Mangoes take several years (4-5) to bear from seedlings, at least. Buying grafted trees from the nurseries will probably get you fruit sooner. Leo ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:39:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Passiflora, pluots, and apples To: Leo Passiflora Apparently the Passiflora edulis cultivar known as 'Frederick' a.k.a. 'Bountiful Beauty' will fruit in partial shade. There is a huge one in a pepper tree at Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista, Calif., and it certainly fruits prolifically (or maybe I should say bountifully!). I have one that has been in the ground for just over a year and it has fully covered a large section of my fence and is loaded with fruit and blooms this year. I would rate the fruit itself to be outstanding in quality. I also have a P. ligularis that has been in the ground a bit longer. It is in full sun. It is doing terribly and I may take it out soon. It has barely grown, and some of the growth has died back. It always looks chlorotic. Someone with the Passiflora Society told me ligularis is a high-altitude plant and may be poorly adapted to my near-sea-level climate. Pluots I have tasted my first home-grown pluot!!! Incredible. It was a Flavor Supreme, which ripened on June 25. It was the only fruit set by my three-year-old 2-in-1 (the other is Flavor Queen) tree. It is somewhat ironic that I got one FS and no FQ, as the FQ bloomed profusely over a one-month period, while the FS had only 5 or 6 blooms over a one-week period after FQ was done. Perhaps the problem with the FQ was I had nothing else blooming concurrently that will serve as a pollenizer. I spoke to Gary Matsuoka, owner of Laguna Hills Nursery in Orange County, Calif. about pluots. He has had some fruit on his Flavor King three years in a row. So, the listed 5-600 hours chilling requirement may be too high, at least for a partial crop. (And, it is SO good, that even one a year will keep this tree in my yard!) Gary also said that someone at Dave Wilson Nursery now thinks that Burgundy rather than Santa Rosa is the best pollenizer for the pluots. They used to have a row of Burgundy next to their pluots. Then they took it out last year and this year their pluots set much less fruit. Apples Also, Gary makes the unusual and controversial claim that apples do not have a chilling requirement. I asked him about that, and he referred to reports of fruiting Rome Beauty and other supposedly high-chill apples in the Philippines. He said they strip the leaves off the trees when they finish a crop to force them into a dormancy and then the trees bloom and set fruit again. Interesting. Matthew Shugart ----------------------------------- Matthew, I have Frederick, in relatively full sun, doing well, and covering everything I'll allow it to. I find the fruit to be somewhat tart, but most passion fruit is. I've been told by several people that P. ligularis requires considerable shade, so that may be your problem. I'm going to get one to try in one of my trees. You might ask Bob Holzinger bholzing@amgen.com or Patrick Worley wildridge@aol.com about P. ligularis, especially Patrick. Burgundy is an excellent plum that I no longer have. I would like to get it again. I've done the leaf-stripping bit for winter dormancy on apples, but don't anymore. I've heard it isn't practiced as much as it once was. I believe that the Rome Beauty will not bear - even in my much more temperate yard than in the Phillipines - regardless of what I do with its leaves. It would be a great research project for you to find out whether it is still done and with what success. I told you, probably, that I became so impatient with my pluots that I dug them up. They - and the other plumcots I had tried - were extremely shy bearers. At that time I also had Burgundy plum. Thanks for writing! Leo ---------------------- Leo, Thanks for the comments. As for the pluots, believe me, they are worth being patient with! Maybe I'll never get a full crop, but even small crops are good enough to justify their existence in my yard! Matthew Shugart -------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 21:15:09 -0400 From: Bart Tibbals cc: Leo Subject: persimmons Hello Eileen, Your persimmon trees may still make it. Just keep watering regularly and look for new buds to form. You will have to really keep a check on the moisture content on plants that are from pots. I am told, from one of the premier growers in north florida that wicking by the porus sand will take moisture from the potting soil. The trees are probably in shock from the heat, root trimming and transplanting. I have one zone of trees from potted plants and one zone from bare root trees and they are the same age, yet the bare root trees are several feet taller than the potted ones. The bare root trees can only be planted in the winter. I hope to have a few native seedlings that can be budded with the fuyu and ready to market on a small basis next winter. These are trees left over from the zone I am expanding the orchard with. In my zone of native root stock I hope to be able to successfully bud to them this fall, but I am having trouble with the soil. I cannot figure out what is going on, but maybe with a little luck things will straighten out. I would be more than happy to have you come to my orchard, even though is doesn't look like much yet, since they are so young. Let me know how your trees are doing, Bart Tibbals ------------------------------ To: LLowder779@aol.com Cc: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Re: Chocolate Persimmon From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) I live in North San Diego County, my trees are on a SW facing hill. I rarely fertilize (occasionally fish emulsions) and mulch w/ misc. "tree chippings". As I said, I get the flowers but no setting, my Fuyu (~20 ft. away) has ~ 20-30 fruit set and growing. Leo Manuel who lives ~ 6 miles away said that his tree did the same for a couple of years and now bears fine. If this is the case, next year I should get fruit on this and a capulin cherry that has given me two similar years of false starts. If you do have a better answer or if I need to do something, please advise... On Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:53:42 -0400 (EDT) LLowder779@aol.com writes: >Not knowing where you are located is a handicap in answering so I will >include info based on some different areas. > >In order for your persimmon to set fruit without being pollinated or >parthenocarpically, it most of the time needs to be at least 5 years >old. >If you live in Florida and live far enough south, that can contribute >to not growing persimmons successfully. > >If you live in Florida, our soils are very mineral depleted, you may >need to spray your persimmon trees with a mineral spray, as Microfilic >and sometimes with extra managanese. In California this is not usually >Premium necessary. Persimmons are very sensitive to soil ph and foliar >spraying >makes the minerals available to the tree, while the ph may keep the >nutrients locked up and unavailable to the persimmon tree even if >it is in the fertilizer. > >I hope this will help some. Jim Mercer (who is an expert in the >field of persimmons) helped me with the information. > >If we can help, let us hear from you. > >Lou Lowder ---------------------- Subject: Stevia From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 12:35:50 EDT Rick, I am a neophyte member of CRFG/sd residing in Poway, CA. I was at Jim Neitzel's yesterday getting him wired for e-mail and the topic of Stevia came up. I have been using an extract mfg by Sunrider for ~ 1 year am a big fan of it. Jim said that you are currently growing it. Also do you have any horticultural info on it, e.g. does it grow well here, hardiness, quality.... Bill Burson -------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Jul 97 23:36:20 -0700 From: lorraine brunner To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: longans we have lychee and longan tree in our new yard. got snubbed this year and let someone pick the fruit for 50 bucks. they made a ton on that on but not sure how much. longan tree was covered. took 15 hours to pick it clean. wish u were here!!!! lorraine brunner ---------------------------------- Lorraine, I have had longans in my yard for years. But, I have never grown them commercially. There are growers who subscribe to Rare Fruit News Online, and some of them undoubtedly can be of help. Where do you live? MIAMI How many trees do you have? WE HAVE 2 LYCHEE 1 HUGE LONGAN What varieties of lychee and longan were they? I DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENT VARIETIES.HOW MANY ARE THERE? Have you lived there long? 2 YEARS What other sub-tropical fruit do you grow? MANGO,KEY LIME,GRAPEFRUIT,SAPPADILLO Do you want to be on the mailing list for Rare Fruit News Online? YES PLEASE I WOULD LIKE THAT. Leo -------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:26:22 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: white sapotes Correspondence between Bill Monroe and Norm Subject: white sapotes Author: norm@flnet.com at smtp Date: 7/8/97 10:52 AM Bill, my experience with white sapote seedlings is all bad. I have grown 2 of them over the years and after waiting 4 or 5 years for the fruit, It was not very good. As for fertilizer, I use the cheapest 6-6-6 I can find. I usually do not fertilize while blooms or fruit are present, but this is a general practice of mine based on the fact that some types of fruit trees will drop their fruit when nitrogen is applied. I occasionally spray minors if the leaves show a deficiency. As I mentioned, the Smathers variety always looks bad. Your yellowing leaves could be the old leaves shedding, or possibly to much water on the roots, or possibly minor element deficiency. If nothing helps, it is probably water. They are very slow to recover from water damage. The white sapote is on of the easiest fruit trees to air layer that I am familar with. I seem to have my best luck with air layers as compared to grafted trees. Air layers will often fruit in 1 year, where grafts often fruit in the second or third year. As far as varieties I would recomend the following 1. Smathers 2. Sue belle 3. Macdill 4. Vernon There are many other varieties that are good, but I find these best by my tastes. If you want a fast growing, heavy bearing with very large fruit, the Macdill is the best. The Smathers and Sue belle are both wolly leaf varieties and may not be quite as cold hardy as smooth leaf varieties, although the temperatures in Sarasota do not seem to do much damage to either type. I do not think that anyone would ever regret planting a good variety of white sapote. Norm ------------ Subject: white sapotes Author: norm@flnet.com at smtp Date: 7/1/97 2:16 PM Bill I am on the opposite side of Fl. and have grown several varieties of white sapotes. We occasionally get temperatures down into the mid 20s, and other than loosing a few of the new leaves to frost, I have had no damage. The trees usually bloom in November and carry the fruit through the winter. You should be careful not to use too much mulch, because the tree does not wet feet. I have a friend whose land is low and his white sapotes look terrible each rainy season. I have no problems growing the fruit. I have frozen the fruit, dried it, and eaten it fresh and it is always good. I have grown 7 varieties, and only one stands above the others; that is "Smathers". It is a wolly leaf variety and is the worst looking tree that I have. It appears that it never had any minor elements, but consistantly produces a large crop each year. The experts tell me that it is probably a genetic thing. Nothing seems to bother the fruit. I think that the white sapote is the least demanding fruit that I grow. Norm ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 13:20:59 -0700 From: Leo Manuel To: Norm Rohrabaugh Subject: Smathers Sapote! Norm, I read your communication with Bill about Sapotes with interest. Is the Smathers variety only in Florida? I'd like to try it. I haven't had luck in getting them to hold fruit (McDill) at my "new" (five years) home, but they fruited well where I lived before. Leo ------- From: Norm Rohrabaugh To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Smathers white sapote. Leo, I cannot tell you much about the history of the Smathers White sapote. I assume that it is one of the varieties introduced by Frank Smathers. It has some unique charasticis. The most outstanding is the lemon background taste. I have never found that taste in any other variety. It is one of the wooly leaf varieties. Another charastic is that it always looks as if it had been totally neglected. The young leaves look good, but as they mature, they take on a look as if they had a mix of magnesium and iron defeciency eventually turning completely yellow and falling off. I have tried everything in my experience and have failed to change anything. Even with this situation, the trees produce a good crop every year. I do not know where the tree is available. I acquired mind as an air layer from a friend. Norm ---------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Comments on July 1 newsletter Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 14:24:17 -0700 Hi Leo, I have a few comments for some of the items in the July 1 newsletter: For Mike Lima--Annona squamosa is not effected by cold until it gets near freezing, but I have lost two in the last two winters, which were quite mild and probably didn't get much below 38F. There must be some other sensitivity that I'm not aware of, so try it with caution. For Tim Hoy and Bill Monroe--passionfruit that I would recommend are P. 'Frederick', P. alata, and P. maliformis. P. alata will need a cross pollinator, the other two are self fruitful. For warm areas in Florida I would also try P. quadrangularis, P. cincinnata, P. laurifolia, all of which need cross pollinators. If a cool area is to be planted, then P. ligularis is a good choice, and it probably needs a cross pollinator. Most of these plants can be obtained mail order from Patrick Worley at Wild Ridge Nursery (wildridge@aol.com). For Haidar Nesheiwat--there is a guava plantation on the Hawaiian Island of Kauai that processes 60 million pounds (I think) of guavas each year. I would recommend finding out as much as possible from them, although they may not be likely to share secrets with a competitor. But it can't hurt to ask. If you can't find them, get back to me and I'll look for their name in my Hawaii file. That's about it, except to report that I just ate my first black sapote fruit from my tree and it was closer to chocolate pudding than to axel grease. The tree I purchased from George Emerich has perfect flowers, so it has done just fine on its own and it is flowering again for next year's crop. All in all not a bad fruit. Take care, Bob -------------------------- Readers: Help! How do you deal with fruit flies in affected areas?? From: Hideko Teruga Date: Thu, 10 Jul 1997 13:02:32 -0300 (EST) Subject: "Worms" in Pitangas in Brazil Hello Leo, My name is Hideko and I live in Brazil (believe me!). I was very curious about your organization since I've been spending some useless hours searching for help in the internet since I have a Pitanga tree in my house and I would really like to know how could I manage not to have that disgusting worms in my little fruits. I know we have big research centers here in Brazil specialized in tropical fruits research, but they seem to pay attention to big growers and not to simple plant lovers like me. Could you please help me?? My tree is 20 years old and by now she is full of flowers!! I wonder that so many flowers will certainly turn to delicious fruits and it would be great if they were "wormless"!!! I live in Santos, a coastcity in the Southeast of Brazil and the climate is very humid. Presently, we are in the wintertime though the temperature never gets lower than 60 F. I am really counting on your help! If you could send me any information on how should I care my tree, they will certainly be welcomed! PS: I also have a guava tree in my backyard. Would it be too much to ask for some info on it too? :)) Hideko Teruya ------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 14:33:49 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Subject: Bob Perry's "Landscape Plants for Western Regions" Amazon.com has Bob Perry's "Landscape Plants for Western Regions" reduced from $62 by 30% to $43.60 plus shipping (maybe $4) Virgie (Local crfg recommends it highly!) ------------------------------------ From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Sun, 13 Jul 1997 00:34:45 -0400 cc: Leo Please forward this to Bill Monroe (or put it in RFNO, or both). Hi Bill, I am also growing a white sapote tree. It is probably the tree that I am most excited about and have the highest hopes for. Mine is young, but it is rapidly growing into a beautiful tree. It has been remarkably trouble-free. It is a very hardy plant (relatively speaking), and in California (where the winters are always cool) it is said to withstand 20 degrees with virtually no damage! In active growth it is (expectedly) not as resistant to cold, so in Florida it won't be as hardy during the winter as in California. Nonetheless, I think it is well-adapted to central Florida. I live in cold Lake county, north of Orlando. I have a friend nearby who has a large white sapote tree, and he has never seen any major freeze-damage on it. His tree has not produced any fruit yet. He determined that the problem may be a lack of dry winters. He has been irrigating the tree during the winter just the same as his other trees. The white sapote needs a cold, dry winter to induce flowering, and his tree has not had such conditions. He decided not to irrigate it in the winter anymore. The flowers generally appear in the middle of the winter, when frosts are likely. My plan is to keep the tree as dry as possible in the winter, and hopefully this will delay flowering until late winter. I hope I don't overdo it and kill the tree. I will resume irrigation when the threat of frost is gone (or when the tree is severely wilting). Of the other trees that you listed, I am growing all but the jaboticaba and longan. I also have a few others. I am very interested in hearing about how your trees are doing. Mine are still very young, so nothing exciting has happened yet. Only the sugar apple has fruit on it (just one). I managed to kill one of my lychee trees recently, so my horticultural self-esteem is very low at the moment. I would love to see my trees grow well, so any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. I think that the "jungle" method that you described is very effective. Visit Gene Joyner's place in West Palm Beach ("Unbelievable Acres") and you will be convinced that it works. I'm looking forward to hearing of your experiences with the white sapote and your other trees. Sincerely, Oliver Patterson ----------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 00:31:02 -0400 From: Richard Buchanan Please put me on your rare fruit mailing list. I am interested in Cherry of the Rio Grande. Are you familiar with it? Do you know if I can grow it in a container in Tallahassee, FL. Thanks. Richard Buchanan ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:27:01 -0400 Message-ID: <3ca7d5f0@mailb.harris.com> From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) cc: Leo For: Oliver Patterson Oliver, How does one get to "Visit Gene Joyner's place in West Palm Beach ("Unbelievable Acres")"? My white sapote just went through a disturbing period in which it lost most of its mature lower leaves. The leaves turned yellow and dropped. I sprayed with minor elements and fertilized with iron and maganese. I found out latter that it may have been getting too much water. From your comments it seems that abundant water affects the white sapote. I just planted an "Ice Cream Bean Tree" underneath my pine tree. They're cold sensitive but for 10 dollars I couldn't resist experimenting. Not a bad price for a 5 foot tree! I understand from a friend the "Home Depot" is selling different banana types. He called to tell me that they just received a order of Hoa Moas and Ice Creams. If your into bananas you might want to check your local store. The next banana type I want to try is the Raja Puri which is called the "Bullet Proof" banana because it with stands the cold and fruits every 7 months versus 18. Could you tell me what causes premature fruit drop on Carambolas? Best Regards, Bill Monroe wmonroe@harris.com ----------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 21:49:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Benefits of Stevia? From: ricknan@juno.com KNO3 (potassium nitrate) is normally sprayed on the trees and will usually hasten flowering and fruiting. If you have a mango tree that has not fruited why not try spraying it. The article I have uses 20,000 ppm solution. Butler Mills or McCalif in San Diego County should have it. Rick ------------------------------------ The site Landscaping With Bananas, with web address: http://www.pathfinder.com/@@5AXicwYAx@WMqCDJ/vg/Magazine-Rack/ Sunset/1996/August Discusses feeding and watering needs of the banana plants, lists varieties with a description of each, and the most effective uses of banana trees in landscaping. ---------------------- Another Banana Site: U.C. Fruit & Nut Research and Information Center - Banana http://pom44.ucdavis.edu/banana1.html U.C. Fruit & Nut Research and Information Center Use that address to get the "hot" links below: Banana Produce Facts Linked from the Postharvest Outreach Program, U.C. Davis Banana Overview, Propagation, and Agroforestry Uses Linked from Cornell University Banana Home Fruit Production Linked from Texas A & M Extension The Banana Linked from the Florida Ag. Information Referral System. Banana Fruit Facts, and Banana Publications Courtesy of California Rare Fruit Growers. Chiquita On-Line Cool Stuff about Bananas Courtesy of Dole -------------------------- Continuing with bananas: (Following is a quotation) http://www.brudys-exotics.com/ Texas based Brudys sells quite a few banana corms, not inexpense ($25-$35 each.) Shipping an additional $5 to $7 per. (Some are rare.) Other "hype" is at the bottom of this page. Offers these varieties with a description of each: African Rhino Horn Brazilian Cardaba Cavendish, Dwarf Chinese Coccinea Double Banana or Mahoi French Horn Giant Cavendish Giant Plantain Golden Aromatic Gran Nain Haa Haa Hua Moa Jamaican Red Dwarf Lacatan Musa Sumatrana X Gran Nain Hybrid Mysore Nino (Honey Banana) Popoulu Praying Hands Pysang Raja (Pisang Raja) Puerto Rican Dwarf Plantain Rajapuri Red Iholene Rojo Saba (Sabah) Thousand Fingers Valery Velatina - Pink Banana White Iholene Williams Hybrid Zebrina Discover the world of tropical gardening with beautiful plants that you can grow indoors during the winter and outdoors during the summer or year-round in a greenhouse. Brudy's Exotics is a mail order catalog established in 1968 specializing in rare unusual seeds, cuttings, rhizomes and bulbs of exotic plants and trees. Our product line includes bananas, cannas, gingers and plumerias as well as fertilizers, books and equipment. Butterfly and hummingbird gardening is highlighted with special sections. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - July 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 08/01/97 15 This newsletter is longer than any, so far, even after trying to pare it down. I hope no one is offended if some letters have the essence intact, but of shorter length than originally sent to me. I was tempted to omit some redundant references, but didn't want to make the difficult choice as which ones to leave/cut. If the mail continues at the pace of the last few weeks, I may need to send the newsletters weekly, rather than bi-monthly. I'd like your feedback. You may be overwhelmed by the size of this newsletter! Any suggestions? Leo ---------------------------------- Several websites that I believe you'll find interesting enough to check out! There are a few others at the end of this newsletter, that I haven't checked. ------------------------------ Digitalseed.com WebSite To Check! Digitalseed: http://www.digitalseed.com/ ---------------------------- Small Farm Center Web Page: WebSite To Check http://www.sfc.ucdavis.edu/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 06:18:05 +0000 WebSite To Check! Subject: GreenWeb-Extracted Quotes http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb.htm "We also hope you'll check out GreenWeb's Exotic Seed Catalog and Gardening Book Store as well. Happy gardening! The web site for people who love plants, nature and the harmony they provide to each of our lives! Here we'll celebrate that fact as well as provide you a source for over 4000 high quality seeds and gardening products to grow everything from exotic houseplants to rare vegetables and fruit trees. GreenWeb's Exotic Seed Catalog FREE for the DOWNLOADING! With Seeds From Around the World!" ------------------- The Tree Doctor WebSite To Check http://www.1stresource.com/t/treedoc/ Hot Links To Other WWW SITES: Xenorhabdus-Nematode Complexes as BioInsecticides Biological Control Virtual Information Center Midwest Biological Control Newsletter Biological Control Home Page" ---------------------------------- This one came with recommendations from Brian White: hewlett@ozemail.com.au Tropical and Subtropical Fruits Notes WebSite Especially To Check!! http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/dpinotes/hortic/tropfruit/tropfruit.html - Topics Listed: - Papaw Ringspot Disease Papaws - Virus and Virus-Like Diseases Pawpaws - site selection, plantation layout and land preparation Ten Things to Know About Growing Bananas Growing Bananas in the Home Garden Pruning Lychees in Southern Queensland Neem Trees - culture Mangoes - packing for market Bananas - crown rot disease Insect Pests of South Queensland Bananas Controlling Banana Leaf Spot Banana Planting Material Basic Requirements of South Queensland Bananas Preparing South Queensland Land for Bananas Fertiliser Recommendations for South Queensland Bananas Ripening Home Grown Bananas Solving Home Garden Banana Problems Grafting Young Avocado Trees Diseases and Disorders of Mangoes Control of Postharvest Diseases of Mangoes What Caused Green Ripe Mangoes? Commercial Production of Persimmons Site Selection for Persimmons Pruning and Training Persimmons Lychees - hydrocooling Lychees - packaging Ginger Plantations - layout and management --------------------------------------------- Tropical Plants and Seeds Address List http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/f35cat.html GARDEN CATALOGS LIST, Version 15 I've included only a small part of the webpage. Leo Begin: This list is a copyrighted publication. It was compiled with the participation of the Internet group Gardens and other Internet sources. It may be freely printed, copied or redistributed as long as it is copied in its entirety with all headers, trailers, credits, and other identifying information completely intact. New addresses, changes, corrections, questions and comments should be directed to the compiler of the list Cyndi Johnson All ratings are opinions of Gardens members and other netizens. Requests for additions MUST be accompanied by the vendor's complete name, address, phone, and a brief description of offerings, or it will not be added. No claims are made as to the accuracy of any of this information. Suggest you call or write before sending money to a source. No warranties are made about the firms listed. For problems or comments with the WEB server http://www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/, contact John Mertus. This list is also available via anonymous ftp at jam.cog.brown.edu under pub/gardening. No claims are made as to the accuracy of any of this information. Suggest you call or write before sending money to a source. No warranties are made about the firms listed. Format: 1.Name (of company) 2.Address 3.Phone 4.Brief Description/Comments including shipping info if available 5.Quality Rating: Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent 6.Prices: $(Cheap) $$(Average) $$$(Expensive) $$$$(Exorbitant) 7.Service Rating: Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent 8.Varieties Offered: Poor, Fair, Average, Good, Excellent 9.WWW address if available End -------------------------------- Several messages were exchanged with Pluots in the subject: (So many, in fact, that it became difficult to remember who wrote what...) Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:37:27 -0700 (PDT) To: powaybill@juno.com From: Matthew Shugart Subject: pluots Bill Burson asks about sources for pluots and comments on the plumcots at Ranch 99 Market in San Diego. Pacific Tree Farms sells all four varieties of pluot and has 4-in-1 and 2-in-1 trees. Pepper Tree Nursery in San Marcos had a few Flavor Supreme and Flavor Queen last year, but I think has sold out by now--they did not get any bare-root pluots this past year. Laguna Hills Nursery has all four varieties, too, and probably the best prices. With enough chill, pluots are not necessarily shy bearers. The nice thing is that, unlike some fruits, they will bare any fruit even on marginal chilling. Preliminary evidence from people I've talked to in southern California is that Flavor King and Flavor Queen will probably produce decent crops on under 400 hours. I had one Flavor Supreme (outstanding!!) in late June, with probably 400-450 hours. Dapple Dandy is in its first year on the market, so its real chill factor is yet to be known. Dave Wilson lists all of them at 500-600 or 400-500 hours (depending on which tag you believe--all the trees have one tag that says 400-500 and one that says 500-600!). I have only one season's worth of experience with my trees, but I can say that they are all highly vigorous growers and that FQ is a good bloomer under my conditions. I'd be surprised if they would not do quite well in Poway. But do not rely only on the pluots or Santa Rosa plum to pollenize one another (despite what the tags say). Get another plum with a progressive blooming period, such as Burgundy or maybe Autumn Rosa. Japanese (not European) Green Gage might do well, too (and is a wonderful low-chill plum!!). I believe the fruit you saw at Ranch 99 is the same that I saw at Boney's Market in Oceanside. They were labeled "plumcots" and are from a grower known as Harvey's Farms. I am certain they are pluots, but they are not one of the four that are sold through nurseries. There are one or two other varieties that are sold only to commercial growers, and a lot are being planted now. I assume that to make it in the market they will have to be sold as plums, as your average fruit-shopper has no idea what a plumcot is, let alone a pluot. They taste mostly like plums anyway, so it would not be much of a stretch. For commercial growers the great thing about pluots is that they have a realtively long bearing period and can even be picked early for market yet already have a very high sugar content. Matthew Shugart Pluot Enthusiast ----------------------- To: Bob Holzinger: bholzing@amgen.com Subject: Re: 99 Ranch Market From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:52:35 EDT On Wed, 16 Jul 1997 11:43:54 -0700 "Holzinger, Bob" writes: >Hi Bill, >I saw your comments in the latest newsletter from Leo Manuel >and since I am going to be in San Diego this weekend, I would like >to know where the 99 Ranch Market is located. I am a former San >Diego resident, so just a rough location will get me there. >I too would like to pick up some litchi at $2.99 a pound! > >Regards, > >Bob Holzinger Bob, Ranch 99 is a chain store with several locations in So. California, mostly in Orange & Los Angeles Counties. The one in San Diego is ~one block east of I-805 & Clairmont Mesa Blvd on the North side of the street. I wish I hadn't just recycled my plastic bags, I could tell you where the others are. A week ago they had dropped to $1.99/lb. Better hurry They seem to always have something good in their produce section. They also have durian (note this is in a different sentence than the "good" fruits). Bill -----------------------------Another from Bill:-------- From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:50:38 EDT Ranch 99 had smooth yellow w/ red-blushed fruit that would rival the sweetest of any plum with a hint of apricot flavor, these were marked pluots, flavour savour. They also have a fruit that looks, very much like an apricot but tastes like a cross between a apricot & sweet plum. To me the flesh had a tartness that was not unpleasant. These were marked Plucots but I don't remember the variety. I know you live in North county inland, but it's worth the drive to Kearny Mesa to try these. By the way I'm relying on memory I hope I didn't mix things up too much. Bill -------------------Another from Bill:--------- Received: (from powaybill@juno.com) Pluots aren't all created equal? Subject: Pluot fever Well Leo, After getting home late last night and reading your e-mail, I woke up early this AM and went to Trader Joes in Carmel Mountain. I saw the Pluots right inside the entrance. I was excited and grabbed a couple of packs, making sure that none of the pre-packaged Pluots were bruised or defective. I rushed through the rest of the store just grabbing assorted juices, preserves, high fiber cereals and something that looks like a tube of toothpaste, but as my dear wife tried to explain, "It's berry flavored and it has ginseng in it." (I bought four of those, I'll report back later if worthwhile). I got into one line and then cut off two other people as I tried to get into a shorter line so that I could get outside and try my pluots. The kids said "Can I have a bran muffin", I lovingly responded "Yea, whatever", thinking more Pluots for me (heh, heh, heh). Well I quickly opened the wrapper, peeled off the label wiped the fruit off on the fabric of my shorts (pesticides? nah). I bit slowly, knowing of the flavorful ecstasy that was to follow. ..... ........ ........ ....... Still waiting, I took another bite,...... ........ ........ Bad Pluot, I'll try another, ...... ....... Wow, of all the Pluots I tried from Ranch 99, all were great, these appeared to be the same, same color on the outside, same label on the outside Kingsburg Apple # 4443, same color on the inside. Being a math wizard, my mind was racing through the probabilities of buying and eating the ONLY TWO FLAVORLESS PLUOTS IN THE WORLD. Unlikely I thought, so I tried a third, forth, fifth, sixth. By now I've eaten an entire package of flavorless Pluots in less than 3 miles while driving home, My stomach hurts a little, I'm out ~ $5.00 ($2.39/six) and I'm disappointed (not to be redundant). My educated guess is that they were picked early or stored too long. They lacked the flavor and high sugar that I remembered. I will try the other package after my stomach says it is ok, but realistically I'll try the edible toothpaste first. For the rest of this year, I'll buy my Pluots one package at a time. Next year I will hoard the good ones, and buy some extra bran muffins for the little guys. I am also going to start a search for the "perfect" Pluot for San Diego Zone 21 (Sunset Western Garden Book) so that we are ready by bareroot season. Oh, Matt, I'll keep an eye out for zone 23/24 for you too. Bill Burson ------------------------------------and another----------- Date: Wed Jul 30 11:24:05 1997 From: Bill Burson Subject: Pluots?, Pleachs? Dinosaurs Eggs? I was at Ranch 99 today and my faith in pluots (or something similar), was reinstated, they had three choices. One was the Plumcot that resembles an apricot with a smother skin. The second was packaged as a FAVOR SPRULT. It looks and tastes as though it is a cross between a Babcock Peach and a red plum. Without explanation, it is individually labeled as a "Dinosaur Egg". Firm and very sweet, worth the $2.49/lb The third was packaged as a "Dinosaur Ball". It looks like a very large, greenish/yellow plum. It was sweet, firm and quite tasty, worth the $2.49/lb as a novelty. Each was individually labeled as "Sweet Pluot I have hidden these from my wife and children. The Lychees are now down to $1.79/lb and still lookin' good. Worth the drive from Poway or Carlsbad Bill Burson ----------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passifloras Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 08:14:04 -0700 To: Mathew Shugart Hello, Mathew: I just read the latest newsletter from Leo and wanted to add my two cents worth on passifloras. P. 'Frederick' is a hybrid, P. edulis f. flavocarpa x P. edulis, and will fruit when grown in partial shade. It will overgrow anything in its way and will take full sun where ever it's grown, as long as it gets enough water. The fruits are sweeter if you let them wrinkle first, but some fruits are just tarter than others on the same vine. It may be exposure to the sun, I don't know for sure. P. ligularis is from altitude in Central Mexico down to northern South America, so I assume it grows in partial shade since it only grows at altitude there. I have seen a couple of healthy plants growing in full sun in Point Loma, but that's it. My experience with P. ligularis in San Diego was disappointing. Most plants grow very slowly and cuttings root slowly then don't grow much at all. The plants in Point Loma were the most vigorous ones I have seen and even the cuttings from these plants didn't grow very fast. I think the trick is to get a seedling that takes off and is put in the right spot, probably in the shade. Like almost all passifloras P. ligularis doesn't take frost very well. I hope this helps some and if you want more info do ask Patrick Worley at wildridge@aol.com. Regards, Bob Holzinger -------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:26:41 -0700 (PDT) To: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Re: pluots I was at the Ranch 99 Market in San Diego last week. The market specializes in Asian products, but has an excellent general produce section. I am thrilled to say that they have Flavor Queen pluots! They are labelled, interestingly enough, "Dinosaur Balls." They are large and green--not fully ripe, but very sweet and richly flavored nonetheless. (That is one of the great things about pluots--they are sweet even if picked before being really ripe.) They also had the same unidentified pluot/plumcot from Harvey's Farms that I mentioned in a previous post: a smaller bright yellow-skinned fruit with excellent sweetness. Another pluot or plum product that I had never seen before was labeled "Dinosaur Egg" on the sticker on each fruit and "Flavor Sprult" [sic] on the package. This one looks sort of like a Flavor Supreme pluot on the outside, but it is more pink than blood-red on the inside, so it must be some other variety. It may be a plum. At any rate, it was very good. Finally, they had a Fortune plum. This is a supposedly low-chill plum that Frank James, a CRFG member in Santa Ana, lists among his recommended varieties for southern California. The trees are avaliable from Burchell Nursery. I had never seen the fruit in market before. It is not as sweet as a pluot (naturally), but would rate among the best plums I have had from a grocery store. Oh, although not in the cateogory of plums and pluots, Ranch 99 currently has sliced Jackfruit for $2.99/lb. and lychees for $1.99/lb.! Matthew Shugart --------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart At 2:43 PM -0000 7/21/97, WMonroe wrote: > Greetings! > >There has been a bit of discussion on "Pluots". What are the >temperature, water, and soil requirements for growing such a tree and >can one be grown in Florida. Specifically, the Melbourne Beach area? >I have not seen a Plout in any of the nurseries nor are any of my >fruit growing friends familiar with the tree in question. I do not know where Melbourne Beach is, but I would not think Florida would be very promising pluot country. We get partial sets in some parts of southern California, suggesting that it may be low chill, but we are probably getting barely enough chill for pluots. Does Santa Rosa plum do well for you? If so, I would think pluots might have a chance, as long as you do not expect heavy crops. >I am surprised that no one is commercially growing the white sapote >in Florida for public consumption. Why is that? Could it be because they bruise so easily? Or just because they are unknown to most people? While on the topic of white sapotes, I have a question. What is the seed of a sapote? I notice that each fruit has a large pit in the center, like a stone fruit, but then there are also flatter seed-like things embedded in the flesh. What are those? Very unusual. I get white sapotes from a tree down the street that bears heavily despite being completely neglected on a vacant lot! Matthew Shugart ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:19:10 -0700 New Florida Subscriber From: Walt Rowe Leo, I would like to be added to your newsgroup posting. My name is Walt Rowe. I live in the south central Florida area. I am currently growing a collection of Carambola, Lychee, Longan, Black Sapote, White Sapote, Muntingia (Strawberry Tree), Custard Apple, Jaboticaba, Papaya, Bananas, citrus, guavas and ice cream bean (small). I have sampled your newsgroup through a friend and was delighted. Thank you. Walt Rowe ------------------------------- From: Hideko Teruga - A Satisfied Customer!! Subject: Thanxs, Leo Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 09:53:24 -0300 (EST) Hi Leo, The more I contact with the association, more excited I get about it! After reading the first newsletter sent to me last week, I sent message to Moshe, who is an agronomist from Israel. He was very kind and sent me a list of things I could do to prevent my pitanga tree from flies infestation. I really have to apologize for not having written back to you about ny reply. I guess I got so busy with the solution ( I hurried to buy the substances), that I forgot to tell about it to you! Thanks again, Leo, and I hope if you come one day to my country, maybe I can show the ex-problematic Pitanga tree! Hideko --------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Mar 1997 13:33:56 -0800 Need Tropical Avocado From: Mohd Johari Abdullah Hi Leo, Thank you very much for putting me on your mailing list and as a matter of fact, I had already received all your back issues and am still going through all of them. For your info, I received responses regarding Avocado from Moshe Nadler and Don Gholston of CRFG for the start. Personal Details for your information are as shown below:- Name: Mohammad Johari Country: Malaysia -I came from East Malaysian State called Sarawak situated at Borneo Island in South East Asia. -climate:tropical-warm,wet and humid type of climate. Fruit Grown:- -50xtrees of Durian -20xtrees of Rambutan -20xtrees of Jackfruit -some few types of bananas -few trees of Carambola -few trees of Mangosteen -few trees of Sapodilla Interest:-Wanted to plant Avocado and some other rare tropical fruits. -still looking for information on Avocado-so far I have never seen an Avocado Trees in Malaysia.I had tested the fruit and sort of like it very much.I am looking forward to get source of seeds of West Indian Varity and would be glad to exchange seeds with fellow RFG enthusiasts. Sincerely M.Johari ---------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 22:38:40 -0800 From: Mohd Johari Abdullah Hi Leo, Thank you very much for putting me on your mailing list and as a matter of fact, I had already received all your back issues and am still going through all of them. For your info, I received responses regarding Avocado from Moshe Nadler and Don Gholston of CRFG for the start.I believed that I can get lots of advice from Moshe and will get in touch with him later. Interest:- Wanted to plant Avocado and some other rare tropical fruits. -still looking for information on Avocado-so far I have never seen an Avocado Trees in Malaysia.I had tested the fruit and sort of like it very much.I am looking forward to get source of seeds of West Indian Varity and would be glad to exchange seeds with fellow RFG enthusiasts. Sincerely M.Johari ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 13:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Avocado Seed Source From: DGholston@aol.com To: Mohd Johari Abdullah : ilang@tm.net.my Greetings: Ed Kraujalis, 1311 SE 14 Terrace, Cape Coral, FL 33990-3721, USA sells rare fruit seeds and might be able to supply you with the avocado seeds you are looking for. Don Gholston California Rare Fruit Growers http://www.crfg.org/ --------------------------------------- O.K. Floridians with Figs. Write to Scott and Phyllis: Date: Sat, 7 Jun 97 21:07:08 UT From: "SCOTT SHAMIS" Hello My name is scott and my girlfriends name is phyllis, We recently bought a house in surfside fl.(miami beach) and on our property we have mango, orange, pink grapefruit, keylime (we planted) and the tree we have questions about...the fig... our fig tree has quite a bit of fruit, but we don't know when to pick it and does it ripen off the vine. We have some bugs. any information on fig trees would be appreciated. SCOTT SHAMIS --------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA In Portugal, Remember? Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:16:24 +-200 (Written in Portuguese, translated to English) I got one more news to give you. It maybe of interest to other members. About some seeds that I bought from Great Company Seeds that you sent me (from the first message you sent to the members to inform us about what you bought, but nobody knew it they where viable). First it looked like it was a cultivar y una was not delivered, and after complaining three times several months ago, I did not received a reply. Now I have verified that a great percentage of those seeds were no good because they were too dry to germinate. I will never buy seeds so expensive anymore. Leo I think that it would be a good idea for us members to send a list of companies that sell plant or seeds from the lands or countries. What do you think about this? Yours sincerely Abilio ----------------------- Visit the Garden Talk site to get help. Replacement for alt.agriculture.fruit (which is spam-overwhelmed) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:00:11 -0700 Subject: New gardening discussion group Dear friends at alt.agriculture.fruit I have set up a new gardening discussion group at: http://209.25.46.109/ or http://209.25.46.109/Garden_Talk/disc7_frm.htm It has threaded discussions, archives (50 meg of space available), and a search engine. One of the five discussion areas is 'fruit.' It should function pretty much like alt.agriculture.fruit , except that messages will stay around longer, and can be found through a search. Good Gardening, Jonathan Byron, mailto: jbyron@junix.ju.edu --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:01:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl Hansen: CHansen@itshqcb Our youngest subscriber My name is Carl Hansen and I am fifteen. I have been a member of the CRFG North San Diego chapter for a year and have been growing unusual fruit for about four years. I am very intrested in this email ring and would love to be part of it. I have growing pitangas, cherimoya, cherry of the rio grande, mulberry, pineapple guava, sapodilla, and I am planning on getting a miracle fruit. Thank you Carl ----------------------------- From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 22:50:38 EDT PowayBill writes: Patrick, how can I distinguish whether my Passion Fruit that was sold to me as Black Knight, actually is one? BillBurson -------- Patrick at Wild Ridge responds: Dear Bill, Send $1.00 to Wild Ridge, 17561 Vierra Canyon Road, Box 37, Prunedale, CA, 93907 and we'll send yoiu off a catalog. I guess the only way to tell if it is a P. 'Black Knight' is the very short internodes, smaller growing habit, very dark fruit with very deep orange flesh and lots of fruit on the vine. If it grows leggy in strong light or doesn't flower it is probably a seedling, no the hybrid. Spanger and many others, including the seed fund have sold seed as P. 'Black Knight', if just doesn't come true from seed at all. I hope that helps. Good growing Patrick at Wild Ridge ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 Diane in NE Illinois subscribes. From: Diane Falk: gardens2@lake-online.com please sign me up for your rare fruit group. sounds very useful and if it is helpful for northeastern, illinois zone 5 perhaps i might mention it on my sprites' sight. visit initial urls from sprites' sight by clicking "visit our sprites' sight" at http://www.lake-online.com/gar dens2.htm located at bottom of serendipity page. ...forgot to mention i am interested in host and nectar plants for lepidoptera up here in antioch, illinois. ie paw paw is a host for butterfly larva and also edible fruit not usually available around here. also persimmon and currants, field crops on a small scale for childrens' environmenta education projects, berries/melons/and yummie fruits potential for my unpredictable weather here would be very useful. thanks and please sign me up for rare fruits discussion group as per your instructions. serendipity gardens, inc. is not yet a non nor not-for-profit entity, but we are attempting to decide how to function within a corporate form. diane falk ------------ Diane, I am happy to put you on the mailing list, but Zone 5 people will find little in common with Zone 9 or 10, where most of the subscribers live. Those in the northern sections of US may attempt to grow sub-tropical fruit, which is sort of what most of us mean by "rare fruit." They will probably use green houses, though, or bring the tender plants in from the cold for the winter months. Leo ------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 07:57:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway: Permacltur@aol.com Hi Diane Leo asked me to respond to your note. Regarding your butterfly garden request, there are a number of suppliers that specialize in butterfly garden plants. Contact me if you are interested in a copy of this database. There may be groups in our data base of non-profit organizations that are concerned with butterfly gardens--I did not check this out as I need to move on. That database TRIP (The Resources of International Permaculture) lists roughtly 2070 organizations (varies daily of course) and I think there are some concerned with saving endangered butterfuly species. I say I think, because funding for such groups is marginal, particularly where they are most needed, and individual entries that I am thinking of may have died of financial starvation. eg butterfly farms in Malyasia And South America. Good luck with your important work. Here we grow lantana, I allow some of the weedy buttonbush to bloom in our pasture, and we have many thousands of passiflora blossoms. I always pick the swallowtail butterfly larvae from my parsley and carrots, where they do damage, and put it on my celery. Some people trim the tops of celery anyway, to make it stockier, so they aren't doing serious harm there, and I get the butterflies in increasing numbers. While we deliberately grow a few butterfly plants, my focus is on the hummingbird plants, particularly those that are effective before the wild campsis (trumped vine) blossoms. I note certain zebra butterflies like the citrus blossoms, as do most bee/fly pollinators, but I guess that is of little interest to you. My son in Massachusetts reports he has noticed regular sumac (Rhus) to be a phenomenal bee plant--I expect most bee plants have potential as butterfly feeding stations. Dan Hemenway --------------------------------- Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 Help with espalier, anyone? From: Bill DeFelice Bill, you said: I would like top be put on your mailing list. I have tried many resources in tring to find the best books or videos on how to espalier without much luck. Maybe your newsletter or the back issues will help. I live in York, PA. Approx. equidistant from Baltimore and Harrisburg and 1-1/2 hours west of Philly. Beautiful country around here. Maybe you've seen it. Thanks Bill DeFelice ----------- Bill, I am willing to put you on the mailing list for Rare Fruit News Online, but I don't think any one of the reader-growers who subscribe know much about espaliering. I know I don't, and I haven't seen the topic come up. I hope one of the readers can help. Leo ---------------------------- Date: Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:02:30 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Is the Capulin self-fruitful? Leo, "The literature" says self-fruitful, but more to the point, there is a tree (Huachi Grande) at the UCSC Arboretum that is all by its lonesome and has tons of fruit on it every year. Don ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 What about Lingonberries in Canada? From: David Anderson Subject: Subscribe from BC.Ca? Hi, David Anderson here in Abbotsford BC.Ca. We own a produce farm and direct market; our main crop is Yukon Gold potatoes. In the last two years we have begun growing Lingonberries, the transplants are available from Fall Creek Nursery in Lowell Ore. email . We are learning how to grow them first and will then concentrate on marketing if the plants do well here on heavy clay soil with a high water table. At the moment our biggest problem is weeds and there are no approved herbicides for Lingonberries in Canada becuase no one has a large enough planting to be able to afford the testing on the "user pay" program. David Anderson --------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Answers Passiflora Question To: "'powaybill@juno.com'" Subject: passifloras Hi Bill, Yes, I am a passiflora guy and most of my passifloras are not grown for the fruit, rather I enjoy the flowers and the different leaf shapes. To ask what will do well in Poway I will need to know what exposure you have, how much frost you see in an average winter and in a bad winter and whether you get any breeze in the summer to keep the heat down. If you have gotten the listed plants through a summer and winter already, then that gives me some place to start. First, let's get some details cleared up. P. 'Frederick' is not a variety of P. edulis, it is a hybrid (P. edulis f. flavocarpa x P. edulis). P. 'Black Knight' is a variety of P. edulis and can be recognized by its growth habit--it's a dwarf with very little space between adjacent leaves and the fruits are always small (about 1 1/2" in diameter) and so dark purple in color that they look black. Most passifloras are not self fruitful, and this includes P. edulis f. flavocarpa, P. alata, and P. ligularis. P. alata x P. caerulea (the usual form of the cross) does not set fruit with anything inside. So, what's left to try? You need to try warm growers, not cool growers and I hope you have P. ligularis in at least partial shade. The few I could recommend are P. maliformis (self fruitful), P. platyloba (cross pollinated by P. maliformis) and P. 'Purple Tiger' (P. quadrangularis x P. alata). A good cross pollinator to have for P. alata and P. 'Purple Tiger' is P. caerulea 'Constance Eliott', which is also self fruitful, but not very tasty. I have all of the above and do propagate them. If you ever get up to Ventura, stop by. Otherwise you need to know when I am next coming down to visit Leo and make a request for plants. At this time I don't know when that will be. Any more passiflora questions, just drop me a line. Take care, Bob --------------------- Help for all of us with Fruit Fly problems From: Nina&PaulVC Hideko in Brazil gets help from Canada! Sent: Thursday, July 17, 1997 6:36 PM To: heideko@fea.unicamp.br Subject: Fruit Fly Control on Pitangas Hi Hideko, My name is Paul, and I am Bob Holzinger's friend. Actually I am Brazilian, but I live in Calgary, AB - Canada. How I got to know Bob is a long story, and how I find myself here in Canada is another long story. I am contacting you, because Bob has asked me some information about Fruit Fly control on your Pitangueiras. I will write you in my unperfect English, so we can share our conversation with Bob, OK? If it gets too complicated I will apologize with Bob and turn into our Portuguese. It will be a good opportunity to improve my abilities on writing English. I am an agronomist and I used to control the insects using insecticide-saturated baits. Instead of spraying the baits I used to put the bait inside some traps, this should avoid the contamination of the fruit with the chemicals. The traps can be done with any plastic bottles, with small holes on it. The holes have to be large enough for the entrance of the flies, but they must create some difficulties on the way out. The baits are prepared with: -100 liters of water -5 liters of Molasses -1 liter of Corn Protein (Proteina Hidrolizada de Milho,(Portuguese)) - And ONLY ONE of these insecticides: -diazinon 40% - 200g OR -malation 25% - 600g OR -paration 60% - 50ml OR -fention 50% - 75ml OR -etion 50% - 60 ml OR -triclorfon 80% - 200g (the one that I used more frequently) Unfortunately, or fortunately I do not know, I have not been dealing with this insect since a long time ago, I do know however that there are some new researches on this field. I have found some very interesting information about the Fly on the Internet. The address is: http://www.pcug.org.au/~jallen/cogint13.htm . This site has a lot of information on Organic Control, and I found it quite complete on the issue. What I did not like on the suggested methods is the creosote repellents that they describe. It is highly toxic, even not being based on insecticides. DON'T USE IT. Well I hope I have been helpful. Take care! Tchau! Paul Connors ------------------------------------- From: Walt Rowe: an39.palmnet.net Looking for Miracle Fruit Seeds Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 21:25:00 -0400 Leo, I am located near Vero Beach on the East coast of Florida. While we are communicating, could you post a request to the newsgroup for me? I am looking for a few Miracle fruit seeds. Thanks ... Walt Rowe ------------------------------ ATTN: Don Gholston Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 From: Dan Hemenway: Permacltur@aol.com Subject: Mohd Johari Abdullah Search for Avocado AND Design a DataBase! It would help to have more than the country or in the case of a huge island like Borneo, more than the general region. Saying Borneo is probably saying less than, say southeastern US (10 US citizens would probably have 8 different lists of states to include and the other two would have given up). OK, we need elevation, temperature range, and precipitation. Then, soil is often important, particularly for varieties sensitive to nematodes. And drainage. Not to mention latitude, meaning day length. From the little I know of Borneo, I'd guess that any variety that does swimingly well in high rainfall high elevation tropics, e.g. Columbia, might work there. If day length is immaterial, even a marginally tropical region such as Costa Rica might be suited. Of course, a variety that developed in Costa Rica at high elevation might be very popular in Florida, due to adaptability, and thence find its way to our friend in Borneo. To complicate these matters, Borneo is experiencing climate change after 150 million years of relatively stable climate, probably due to global deforestation and other human-induced atmospheric changes. Deforestation in Borneo isn't helping. So in this case, we want varieties with very wide adaptation, particularly regarding rainfall. Add termite resistance. All this is by way of suggesting that we need a species/variety matrix by which we evaluate our plants. Many of us, living on the margins of adaptation for species such as avacodo or citrus, can be very helpful in defining limits. Others can describe best varieties under optimum conditions. I have a small database for personal use that includes about 100+ characterizations and other info. It would need modification to change into something useful to people generally--it is tailored mainly to my own uses. (This is on Filemaker Pro 3.0 for Mac.) It would be good to design something that says, here in Wishyswashy, Arizona, this variety survives and produces after 28 degrees F, with minimal fall rainfall, and 21 inches of rain annually, whereas in Mudflats, Florida, the same variety suffered frost damage at the same temperature with 49 inches of annual rainfall with a heavy compliment of fall rains followed by winter drought. I'm oversimplifying to get the idea across. We would want to know how long it was 28, prior temperatures, etc. This means, probably, if we want to do this we all have to keep much better records. My Valencia orange doesn't care about average rainfall, only the rainfall this year. We need to break rainfall into no larger than monthly levels for reporting and of course record daily. Temperature needs to be recorded at least thrice daily to be meaningful and better four times with a nighttime low recorded by a min-max unit. If we can come up with a really good species/varietial recording method it will have the following characteristics: 1) It will include detailed description of characteristics on site. In very marginal situations, we may want some recording devices right at the individual plant. 2) It will allow for every kind of information about the plant species/variety that can be useful in evaluating suitability. 3) It will lend to modification, personalizing and updating without disturbing the general usefulness of the databas exchanged between users. In other words, we need to make the original so good that changes will be only chrome trim--we can still exhange engines. 4) It needs to permit comparison of multiple entries for a single plant species/variety. Most of what I have in my own data base, which does not meet the above criteria, is what I have gleaned from published materials elsewhere. It is spotty and sometimes contradictory. I believe most of the contradictions I read are differences in circumstance, not errors. In particular, chilling hours and temperature tolerances are critical for me because I live in a warm temperate region with pretensions of being sub-tropical. Most temperate fruit varieties don't get enough chill factor here, particularly on my site, which is surrounded by water and therefore milder. We are so close to the limit on subtropicals, e.g. citrus, that I am gambling a significant amount of money on trees that I would not consider 20 miles away. Varieties that I would consider would probably inappropriate for someone smack-dab in the middle of a climatic adaptation zone, who can go for quality and yield and devil take the hindmost. I can't take on another project but will support an effort to create a database. Someone should look at what CRFG has for a database and see if it is useful. It would be helpful to 1) come up with a database design that meets above critera and that 2) can be exchanged computer-to-computer without re-entering data. It seems to me sometimes stupid that I am abstracting entries in a CRFG fruit profile when with batter communications and compatibility I could import it. Well, that's enough steam for that engine until I find out if anyone else is interested. Dan Hemenway -------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: To Bill Monroe from Oliver Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:45:47 -0400 Hi Bill, you wrote: How does one get to "Visit Gene Joyner's place in West Palm Beach ("Unbelievable Acres")"? I am not sure, but I think that anyone who wants to visit can do so without charge. I paid nothing when I went with some other Fruit Club members. Mr. Joyner is a nice guy, and his yard is unbelievable. It is like a jungle full of tropical fruit trees. Mr. Joyner works at Mounts Botanical Gardens, so you could call there to speak with him or ask about his policy concerning his "yard." I have directions to his place. Let me know if you need them. You also said: My white sapote just went through a disturbing period in which it lost most of its mature lower leaves. The leaves turned yellow and dropped. I sprayed with minor elements and fertilized with iron and maganese. I found out latter that it may have been getting too much water. From your comments it seems that abundant water effects the white sapote. It is a drought-resistant tree, and it is said to do quite well in California even when totally neglected (and you know how dry California is). Based on that information, my guess is that you are correct--you gave it too much water. I know that it needs very good drainage. What is the soil like? You said: The next banana type I want to try is the Raja Pura which is called the "Bullet Proof" banana because it withstands the cold and fruits every 7 months vice 18. I have heard the same thing about the Raja Pura. I have eaten them, and I thought they were excellent--very high-quality. You asked: Could you tell me what causes premature fruit drop on Carambolas? Too much or too little water, and wind. Another possibility is lack of nutrients, but you should know if your trees are healthy or not. My lychees fell off the tree recently (very sad), but that is a common occurrence with lychees. A tree needs to be healthy and needs to have CONSISTENT watering and feeding while it has fruit on it. When a tree has a small root system (as all my trees have since they are young), it doesn't take much of a drought to cause it to drop everything. On the other hand, too much nitrogen or water will also cause it to drop its fruit. My advice is to keep your trees healthy, protect them from high winds (if possible), and (most importantly), use a MODERATE amount of water and fertilizer CONSISTENTLY while the tree is developing fruit. My yard is quite boring at the moment, but I have one pineapple forming and one sugar apple (that seems to never increase in size!) on the tree. Please write back and tell me how your trees are doing. Sincerely, Oliver --------------------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 22:47:59 -0400 Hi Leo, What do you think about sending a list to everyone that gives each person's location? I don't think anyone would object. The county and state would probably be sufficient. I know I would love to see such a list. Sincerely, Oliver ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:30:34 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" To: Leo Manuel Subject: No more newsletter?? I haven't seen the fruit newsletter for some time now. Did you discontinue it? Dan ------ Later: Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 23:30:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" Leo, I am very grateful that you took the time to catch me up on the newsletter items. Some very interesting information that I intend to save. I am in Lake Worth, Florida, more or less at the northern end of South Florida, as far as growing fruit is concerned. My passion is mangos, but I'm interested in pretty much anything that tastes good and grows with out too too much fuss. In addition to 8 or 9 varieties of mango trees (most still small), I have several types of annona, some jackfruit trees, including one grafted cultivar, Honey Gold, some citrus, bananas, mamey sapote, jabotacaba, lychee, mulberry, and a couple persimmons that I will mostly like remove, since they seem to want a lot more winter chill to bear fruit. Thanks again. Dan Duprey And Dan, How old are the persimmon trees? Are they Japanese persimmon or American? I had to wait several years before my Fuyu persimmon trees began to bear, but they are worth the wait. I don't know how far south in Florida they bear, but we can ask the several other Floridians. Leo And a reply of: Hi Leo: Both persimmons have been in the ground three years. The Hanafuyu is 12-14 feet tall, and the fuyugaki about 8 or 9 feet tall. Where I live we normally get one or two nights down to freezing, maybe 6-8 nights per winter in the low forties or high thirties. Do you think I should give them another year? I double-checked and the last fruit newsletter was dated 4/14/97. I think the ones you already re-sent take me back to the middle of June. I'm glad to see your mailing list is still growing. It's nice not to be the only one who's obsessed with growing rare fruit! Dan Duprey ----------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:38:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Lory: SHARKWOOL@aol.com We have a fruit that the leaf looks like a split leaf elephant ear. It yields a long banana-shaped fruit that-when ripe- falls off the cobb in kernels like corn. it tastes like pinapple/melon. The outside is a dark green, inside milky white. Can't remember the name! Have any ideas? (Monstera Delisioso [sic] or "The Delicious Monster") We also have a mango tree that blooms after all the other mangos are done and gone. Don't know if it's a gene thing or a funky late bloomer. Someone must know this answer? The fruit is excellent none-the-less! Just to refresh your memory, we have Longans, Lychees, Sapadillo (Neiceberry as the Jamaicans call it- though the spelling is probably off), Mango, Banana-large and mini and the fruit described above. looking forward to correspondence, Lory -------------------------- From: Rosa Martinez-Gange Subject: Mexican Papayas Want: Papaya Seeds Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:59:02 +-1000 Dear Sir, I came across your email and website, just by reading the agricultural news. I opened up the webpage and being a farmer as we are, we are very much interested in your advertisement. We are from the Island of Guam in the Pacific located between Hawaii and the Philippines. The reason we are writing is we are interested in locating the company who sells seeds of our interest. I was just wondering if there is a website where we can order seeds. Right now my main interest is Sweet Mexican Giant Hybrid Papaya or any mexican sweet papayas and cherimoa seeds. Kindly please send email regarding this information. Also please send more information regarding being a member and what one must do to become one and also be a subscriber. Any information will be greatly appreciated. Send email to Rudolfo A. Gange at margan@kuentos.guam.net Also, if you have any catalogs of all your fruits. How can I obtain one? Address is Rudolfo A. Gange 152 Rosita Lane Dededo, GU 96912 I thank you most sincerely, Rudolfo A. Gange ------------------- Rudolfo, I publish the Rare Fruit News Online. It comes out twice each month, is free, and the readers are growers of sub-tropical or tropical fruit. I will publish your letter in the next issue, coming out Aug 1, and I'm sure you'll find help there. This is just a hobby of mine. I don't sell anything, however the reader/growers are extremely knowledgeable and I'm sure will have answers for you. Also, Rudolfo, visit Jonathan Byron's Garden Talk - New gardening discussion group at: http://209.25.46.109/Garden_Talk/disc7_frm.htm and post a request there. It MIGHT help. Also, try: GreenWeb's seeds: http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb/fruit.htm and the World Wide Seedbank: http://www.boldweb.com/greenweb/seedbank.htm But remember, I am putting your request in the next issue of Rare Fruit News Online, so someplace, you should get the help you need. Leo --------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 08:59:01 -0400 Letter Bill <--> Oliver Subject: Popularity of the white sapote From: "Oliver Patterson" you wrote: > I am surprised that no one is commercially growing the white > sapote in Florida for public consumption. Why is that? You know how Americans are--always reluctant to try new foods. The white sapote is often described as having a medicinal taste, which would probably scare off the 50 or so people in this country who would dare to try it. ;-) In other countries (e.g. Mexico, New Zealand) it is much more popular. It is more commonly grown in California than in Florida, too, for some reason. -- Oliver Patterson, Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) --------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 05:40:35 +0000 To: Brian White: hewlett@ozemail.com.au Brian White wrote: Hi Leo You may recall some time ago a discussion we had re: grafted Mangosteens. Attached are gifs of a paper I have regarding Durian, Mangosteen, Mango, Langsat-Duku, Sapodilla. I also have extensive texts re: Lychee and Longan, and Cacao. I have a complete copy of G. Weidman Groff's The Lychee and Lungan - USDA reject copy from Hawaii. Anyway, I hope this gives you something to go on re: grafting mangosteens. Cheers. Brian. Note: This will be available LATER. I'm trying to get a copy clear enough to OCR and send as text, rather than as a graphic. Leo ---------------------------- Small Farm News, Probably free to California residents, published by: Small Farm Center, UC Davis, Davis, CA, 95616 (916) 752-8136 "Links those who need information on small-scale farming with those who have the information. ----------------------- Another publication, free to California residents: *California Agriculture*, Bi-monthly, Division of Agriculture & Natural Resources, 300 Lakeside Dr., Oakland, CA 94612-3560. (510) 987-0044 ----------------- And this seems to be free to all growers, but is aimed at commercial fruit and vegatable growers. You might want to ask for a sample copy: *The Grower* e-mail: 102235.1756@compuserve.com Vance Publishing Corp, 10901 W. 84th Terrace Lenexa, KS 66214. (913) 438-8700 -------------------------------------- From: "George F. Emerich" CC: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Re: Miracle fruit - Bearing in So. Calif? Leo: I have a Miracle Fruit plant, Sapotaceae Synsepalum Dulcificum, (Hortis Third calls it Miraculous fruit) in my shadehouse which occasionally bears fruit but there is no fruit now. Dave Silber usually has plants so is a possible source. George p.s.: I will give you a full run down on Cherimoya Association when I get time but suffice to say, it is alive and thriving. gfe --------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 12:24:37 -0800 From: Leo Manuel Subject: Red Fortune Hyacinth Bean <-- That's Not A Rare Fruit! I have several volunteer plants of Red Fortune Hyacinth Bean, the first of which I planted about five years ago when we moved to this part of San Diego. The foliage (underside of leaves and leaf veins), flowers, and beans are shades of red-purple, and the beans are especially brilliant (possibly magenta?) red-purple. When the beans are cooked, they are green. They are so attractive to see that I seldom cook them. The pods are maybe 3/4 inch wide and possibly two inches long. The dry beans are pea-shaped, black, with a single white stripe going from one end to the opposite end. The vine grows ten to fifteen feet long, and are beautiful most of the year. If anyone wants to stop by to see, or want me to e-mail a picture, I'd by happy to oblige. I got the original seeds probably ten years ago from something called Ornamental Edibles, and the package had Lot #641 hand-written on it. It's hardly a rare fruit, but it's a rare sight! Leo ----------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 15:18:44 -0700 To: Leo Manuel From: "Jose M. Gallego" Hi Leo, As you know, I have a dying miracle fruit plant. I took it in an place it in the kitchen window. It is beginning to so signs of live. As soon as it recovers it should (notice the *should*) flower and bear fruit (wishful thinking). I will let you know. Take care, Jose ------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 01:22:16 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Miracle fruit - Bearing in So. Calif? Leo, Talk to Roger Meyer, 16531 Mt. Shelly Circle. Fountain Valley, CA 92708, (714) 839-0796. He sells the plants and has fruited them. Don ------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:41:37 -0400 From: Bill Monroe: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com Subject: Wax Jambu/ Fruit Tree Greetings, I just purchased a rather large potted Wax Jambu (?) from a friend of mine. My friend says the Wax Jambu is similiar to the rose apple but I have not yet been able to confirm this via the internet or traditional hardcopy source material. I would appreciate ANY information on this tree. Thanks in Advance, Bill Monroe, Palm Bay, Florida, Zone 9 ------- From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "WMonroe" Subject: Re: Wax Jambu/ Fruit Tree Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:09:40 -0400 Bill, the wax jambu is from SE Asia, though it has been introduced into Jamaica, Surinam and many other tropical countries. It bears fruits that look very appealing to me (though I have not yet had the pleasure of trying one). If I am not mistaken, it is also known as "Java Apple," and its botanical name is Syzygium samarangense (or malaccense). Since it is in the Syzygium genus, which includes the famous rose apple, I think it is reasonable to assume that it has similar cultural requirements, though I am sure that it is much more sensitive to cold (the rose apple can be grown even in San Francisco, which has a climate that surely would not be suitable for the wax jambu). It needs fertile soil for good fruit production, and it likes a long dry season. I once saw a very large wax jambu tree being sold for a *very* cheap price, but it was too large for my car. You are fortunate to have one. I hope it grows well! Oliver Patterson, Mount Dora, Florida (Sunset zone 26) ------------------------------------ To: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson), WMonroe@mailb.harris.com From: Matthew Shugart At 5:05 AM -0000 7/26/97, Bill Burson wrote: >>A suggestion was made to spray mangos with calcium nitrate to promote >>fruiting. >>Does this work on other fruit trees? That would be *potassium* nitrate, KNO3. There was an article in Fruit Gardener within the last year about this. Frank James, a CRFG member in Santa Ana, Calif. (whom I have referred to before) says you can use KNO3 on stone fruits that have received insufficient chilling. I have the notes at home on how to do this if anyone is interested. I have never tried it myself. Matthew Shugart ------------------- Bob Holzinger says: Hi Leo, The topic of miracle fruit was tossed around in some of your earlier newsletters, but most of the people who said they had bearing plants were in Florida. Do you know anyone with a bearing plant in So. Calif.? If you go to the monthly meeting of CRFG could you ask around and see if anyone has a bearing plant? I and one of my fellow Amgen employees have a slight scientific interest in the properties of the fruit, so we would like to get a couple of fruits to test the "miracle" abilities. Ultimately I would like to have a plant, but that's looking like a costly proposition ($60 from Exotica). Talk to you later, Bob --------------- To: SherHoudin@aol.com More Websites To Visit Subject: web sites for exotic fruit trees & seeds From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Joel, you had e-mailed me regarding wanting web sites for rare fruits. A couple of weeks ago I stumbled on one master listing, but got booted of while perusing, before I could bookmark it. If anybody knows of it please let me know. Meanwhile, here are some others http://www.datasync.com/sbe/fruit.html http://www.tradepbs.com/pbscgi/pbsquote http://www.mnsinc.com/menoldre/R&D_Enterprises/Fruitnut.html http://www.gen.com/exoticseeds/seeds/frunut.htm http://www.e-universe.com/richardm/fruit.htm ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 Amos needs KIWI advice and help From: Amos Yoder Hello I am from Goshen, Indiana, USA and I am interested in rare fruit and how a person grows kiwi fruit, and could you put me on your mailing list ? Thanks for your time Amos Yoder --- Amos, you probably know there are several very different kiwi fruit vines. Some will grow outdoors in Indiana, but others will not. I'm hoping one of our readers will send more information to you, as to what you can try there. Also, post your question in Garden Talk: http://209.25.46.109/ or http://209.25.46.109/Garden_Talk/disc7_frm.htm Leo ----------------------------- I hope Carol can get help from any of the few of you who are growing banana trees and other tender subtropical plants in the colder climates. Please respond directly to Carol c/o Kenneth Walton, as she has not yet subscribed to Rare Fruit News Online. Leo Subject: How to care for a banana tree in New York state Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:08:04 -0700 From: Kenneth Walton Hi. My name is Carol. I live in a small town called Plattekill in New York state. I have purchased a Banana tree, and I am interested in knowing the proper way to care for it. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you. Carol --------------------------- End of RFNO #15 >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - August 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 08/15/97 16 This issue is a dwarf in contrast to the one preceeding it. You may find it more inviting to read. ------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Earl" Subject: Bananas for cooler climates Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:44:15 -0700 Hello... In the last newsletter there was some discussion about growing Bananas in colder areas. I live in Modesto, which is in Northern California, abount 60 miles east of San Franicisco. (San Joaquin Valley) I have fruited Bananas for several years now. We get about 10 days a year that it goes below 32F. I have even carried fruit on the plants through our cold winter (Many days the temps didnt rise above 45F.) And they still ripened in the spring. The type of Banana I grow is a dwarf that fruits at 5 to 6 ft high. I call it " California Gold." Though I believe it to be a Orinoco type Banana, this Banana is quite tastey. I never provide my bananas with any protection. The leaves freeze just about every year. But the trunk survives and produces about 50 lbs of fruit during the summer. Sometimes I have offshoots available for free if picked up at my place. Feel free to visit my web site........http://www.thevision.net/jearl/ or email me at ..........jeff.earl@ccc-infonet.edu Jeff Earl Modesto,Ca ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 17:24:48 -0400 From: Bill Lady Subject: New E=Mail Address Hi, All: Please change my e-mail address to the following: blady@peganet.com Thanks, and please pardon the inconvenience. Bill Lady -------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 10:15:37 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: Bananas in Florida Greetings: Carol and Ray I understand you are interested in Bananas. I live in Palm Bay, FL. Zone 9. Palm Bay is located on Floridas east coast just below Cape Canaveral. Currently, I am growing in my limited backyard the following types of bananas: Raja Puri (tasty, bountiful, cold hardy) Thousand Fingers (thousands of tiny bananas are produced on the head) Praying Hands (Bananas are fused, appear as if praying) Orinoco (Regular "Horse" Banana ) Mysore (Beautiful specimen, tasty) Dwarf Orinoco ( Short and very stout) Golden Aromatic ( Smells great when flowering) Saba (Giant among the bananas, 25 plus feet tall!) I also fertilize my bananas with miracle grow, but I use the Acidic type. They seem to respond better and since its very hard to over fertilize bananas I feed them every weekend. On one of my Orinocos I have a head with over 60 bananas! Now if it can survive the intense thunderstorms we have been having I will be in banana bread heaven in 60 plus days! :-) I have read "The Complete Book of Bananas" and find it very motivating and filled with curious bits of data. I would like to trade bananas suckers with those who also find bananas of interest. I now seeking a Red Jamican, Ae Ae, and "Gold Finger". Possibly we could trade? Ray, when you bare root your bananas they don't dry up and go bad? Do you wrap the corm or do anything special to it? Regards, Bill Monroe Zone 9 -----------Ray Responds:------------- Date: Mon, 4 Aug 97 00:10:51 UT From: "Raymond Gerlach" Subject: response to bill monroe's question You asked if when I bareroot my bananas for winter storage I do anything special such as wrapping the rootball.No,the only trouble I've ever had is with very small babies so I pot them up and place them under grow lights or give them to friends to place in a sunny window until they can plant them outside the following spring. Half of my basement is unfinished and closed off (no heat and a dirt floor), so I can store bare rooted plants, bulbs,corms,figs,plumerias,etc. and not bother with them until spring once again arrives. Ray Gerlach ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:02:29 -0400 (EDT) From: David : Rack12@aol.com Subject: Miracle Fruit Some people have been asking about growing miracle fruit in California. I live near Santa Monica and, after several failed attempts, have figured out how to grow the beast in our rather rigorous climate. I have mine planted in the ground in the complete shade of my guava tree. There is no direct sunlight. That seems to be very important. Every other plant with any amount of direct sunlight has died. I have placed a "growth tube" around the plant to increase the humidity and to stave off the, er, uh, comparatively cold winters we have here in L.A. Basically, all you gotta do is take a 15 gallon pot and cut off the bottom. Place what's left over the plant. The sides of the plant will be covered but the top is left open. I did this last winter in a desperate attempt to keep it from dying from the cold and it worked. The leaves of the plant are just now reaching the top of the pot that surrounds it. Next winter I will use a larger pot. A few years back I got a miracle fruit to produce one miraculous berry, so it is possible in Southern California. David -------------------------- From: Trudy : sche@webtv.net Message-Id: <199708021057.DAA03534@mailtod-111.bryant.webtv.net> Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 06:57:57 -0400 Subject: personal note Leo, It did take a while to read, but I loved it. It was loaded with information and I've got lots of new bookmarks. I would have been happy if it were three times longer. Thanks for all your trouble. Trudy -------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 21:09:07 +0000 Subject: Using Gibberellic Acid on Plants Sent by Don Gholston Gibberellic Acid Gibberellic acid (actually a group of related substances called gibberellins) was discovered as a metabolic byproduct of the fungus Gibberella fujikuroi, which causes the stems of growing rice to elongate so rapidly the plant collapsed. Synthetic forms of gibberellic acid are available commercially. Gibberellic acid (GA) is a very potent hormone whose natural occurrence in plants controls their development. Since GA regulates growth, applications of very low concentrations can have a profound effect. Timing is critical: too much GA may have an opposite effect from that desired; too little may require the plant to be repeatedly treated to sustain desired levels of GA. Effects of Gibberellic Acid 1. Overcoming dormancy. Treatment with high concentrations of GA is effective in overcoming dormancy and causing rapid germination of seed. Concentrations of about 2 ppm can cause tubers to sprout earlier. 2. Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers.] 3. Increased fruit set. When there is difficulty with fruit set because of incomplete pollination, GA may be effectively used to increase fruit set. The resulting fruit maybe partially or entirely seedless. GA has increased the total yield in greenhouse tomato crops both as a result of increased fruit set and more rapid growth of the fruit. 4. Hybridizing. Pollination within self-incompatible clones and between closely related species may some times be forced by the application of GA and cytokinin to the blooms at the time of hand pollination. 5. Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees. 6. Frost protection. Spraying fruit trees at full-blossom or when the blossoms begin to wither can offset the detrimental effects of frost. 7. Root formation,. GA inhibits the formation of roots in cuttings Recipes Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry. Avoid ingestion of GA. The powder may be dissolved as specified below to give the desired concentration. Concentration GA Water Purpose parts/million mg. ml (or cup) _________________________________________________________________ 50-------------125--------2400---10 1/2-----Early flowering 200------------125---------600----2 1/2-----Early flowering 800------------125---------160------2/3-----Blossom set 2000-----------125----------60------1/4-----Seed germination 1% paste-------125----------1 tsp. lanolin--Growth promoter =========================================================== Date: Sun, 03 Aug 1997 19:41:22 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 08/01/97 15 Hi Leo, I think you have created a monster!!! It is amazing to me just how much interest there is in rare fruits. If anyone is interested, I have a collection of scientific papers on Miracle fruit, and actually wrote a thesis on the subject about ten years ago. There are a number of plants which produce protein sweeteners, of which Synsepalum dulcificum is one. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------- From: "Ryan Samuelson" Date: Sat, 2 Aug 1997 22:39:40 -0700 My name is Ryan Samuelson and I'm a student at the University of CA Santa Barbara. I have some dwarf bananas and papayas growing in containers and I recently bought some cassabanana (sicana odifera) seeds. All I know about it is that it's a vine approx. 40 ft. long with orange/yellow banana shaped fruits with a sweet odor. If you have any information at all on the plant I'd appreciate it. I'm also very interested in your newsletter and would like to subscribe. Thanks, Ryan ------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 13:24:51 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: Ryan: croton@earthlink.net Subject: cassabanana (sicana odifera) seeds. Dear Ryan: Leo Manuel sent me your inquiry to answer. The cassabanana vine is perennial, herbaceous, fast-growing and heavy, requiring a strong trellis. In the wild it will climb trees to 50 ft. or more. Flowers are white or yellow, urn-shaped, the male 3/4 in. long and the female about 2 in. long. The ellipsoid or cylinderical fruit is renowned for its strong, sweet, melon-like odor. The fruits are 12 to 24 in. long and up to 4 1/2 in. thick and are hard-shelled with a orange-red, maroon, dark purple or entirely jet black color. They are smooth and glossy when ripe with firm, orange-yellow to yellow, cataloupe-like tough, juicy flesh. The cassabanana is grown from seeds or cuttings. The seeds should be planted in a light medium with bottom heat in much the same way you would treat squash or cucumber seed, and should germinate within about 2 weeks. A high temperature during the fruiting season is needed to assure perfect ripening. The fruit remains in good condition for several months if kept dry and out of the sun. The ripe flesh, sliced thin, is eaten raw, especially in summer when it is appreciated as cooling and refreshing. However, it is mainly used for making jam or other preserves. I hope some of this helps. Don Gholston California Rare Fruit Growers http://www.crfg.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:46:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Thomas Carr: MysteryCpl@aol.com Subject: Black Sapote Hello...I found you on the internet after an extensive search for information about Black Sapote. I am a Pastry Chef, and I I am interested in using this fruit in my restaurant. If you could send me some information about it, ie. seasonal availability, possible contacts for purchase(no one in my area can get it or had ever heard of it), it would be greatly appreciated. I am in E. Central Iowa. Thank you for your time Thomas Carr C.P.C. Note to readers: If you have additional information for Thomas, please write directly to him at the above address. Leo -------------- From: DGholston@aol.com To: Thomas: MysteryCpl@aol.com Subject: Black sapote Greetings Thomas: Your request was forwarded to me for an answer. Black sapote can be grown in southern Florida and parts of southern California, but is seldom seen in the markets. You might try one of these Florida sources, however: J. R. Brooks & Son P.O. Drawer 9 Homestead, FL 33090 (305) 247-3544 Garden of Delights 14560 S.W. 14th St. Davie, FL 33325-4217 (305) 370-9004 Don Gholston --------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: mangos Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:05:39 -0700 Hi Leo, I had an interesting visit with Tony Brown this past Saturday. He bought the Bates Rincon Delmar Rancho a year and a half ago and wants to grow a little of this and a little of that for commercial fruit production. One fruit he is definitely going to try is mango. He bought all of Rob Brokaw's seedling trees (~100 Criollo (sp?)) and has a frost free spot to plant them. He is coming down to San Diego this month sometime to talk to Jerry Stadeli and I suggested that he talk to you and Jim about your varieties. So you will be getting a call from Tony soon, if you haven't already heard from him. He plans to plant the rootstocks to see how they will do (they're about five foot tall in tall fives) and then go back to topwork them to the varieties he has chosen. So you have me to thank (or curse) for his call. Talk to you soon. Later, Bob ------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: Carol: Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 07:22:03 -0700 Hello Carol, I saw your request for info on bananas and thought I would drop you a quick note. I am growing 20 varieties of bananas in So. California and I live 20 minutes from Seaside Bananas which has 14 acres of bananas with over 60 varieties. If there's something specific you need to know, if I can't help you, then Doug Richardson will (he runs Seaside Bananas). It would help if you could tell me what variety of banana you bought, most likely it's a Cavendish of some sort. All bananas will fruit when they have put out their pre-determined number of leaves, so don't think it will never fruit, you just have to be patient. I would advise putting it in the largest container you can find that you can put wheels on to roll it inside for the winter. That way it doesn't lose a lot of roots each time you dig it up to take it in for the winter. Bananas are heavy feeders and drinkers in the heat of the summer, but they stop growing when the temperature goes below 50-55 F. No serious damage will occur until the temp. approaches freezing. If there is to be a brief frost and you want to protect the banana outside, the most important place to have coverage is over the top of the tree, sides are secondary. Any more questions, feel free to email. Sincerely, Bob Holzinger ---------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: Raymond Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 08:30:10 -0700 Hello Raymond, The two sources of bananas through the mail that you could try are Seaside Bananas in La Conchita, Calif. and Going Bananas in Homestead, Florida. Both places have a large selection of varieties and will send corms through the mail. I don't have their mailing addresses on me right now, but if you can't find anything for them, let me know and I'll dig something out for you. Good luck! Sincerely, Bob Holzinger --------------------------------- Help Request Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 18:21:09 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Hello Leo: Thank you for your reply, and the chance to recieve your newsletter. I currently live in Charlotte, NC. I am a long-time organic vegetable gardener, recently converted to the organic fruit faith. My collection currently contains banana (dwarf cavendish, velutina, and an unknown var), Kiwi (A.deliciosa, Issai), peaches, apples, blueberries, strawberries, western sand cherries, american plums, juneberries, passionfruit (maypop), cornellian cherry (dogwood) and several Table Grapes. All of my tropical stuff is in 15-30 gall barrels to be moved into a sunroom at the first hint of cold. I am interested in shareing general info and especially info on var.s that can take some chill. I am in the process of buying/researching: Raja puri, williams hybrid, grand nain, dwarf red(?) and basjoo bananas; star fruit; meiwa kumquat; Changsha (changshi?) mandarin; Keriberry (day neutral raspbery); meyer and ponderosa lemon; pineapple guava; gooseberry/currant/jostaberrys; Pineapple guava; and others such as tea camellia and stevia. As protected space is limited, I am especially fascinated with vars. such as basjoo banana, keriberry, and changshi mandarin, that are far hardier or otherwise different from their more popular cousins. Also desireable are fruits that bear more than once a year, or based on factors other than season. Thanks again for the opportunity to share information on these topics. Darryl Clark and, later: Hello Leo: First of all YES, I need your back issues! Thanks very much for offering them. I have something called a Dwarf Red banana on order. I don't know much about it's habits or cold tolerance, so I plan to put it on my list of high attention plants until I know more. My climate zone is USDA 7, but I consider my propery a 7+ or 8- probably because of being on a southwest facing hill. I checked out the resources that you recommended and thank you. One of the things I have not been able to find on the net is information on specific vars. Many websites have general info on citrus or bananas, etc. But I haven't found many that mention specific facts about specific vars. It would be great to see the different varieties mentioned along with their fruiting speed,fruiting needs, hardiness, insect/disease resistance, shade sensitivity, etc. A general description of a fruit type does not help when trying to decide what variety to aquire. Even when this info is mentioned in catalogs, there seems to be much contradiction between sources. Do you know of any sources for this kind of info? Thanks again for your time Darryl Clark ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 15:56:57 -0700 From: Robert Stone Hi, Leo- I have been out of touch for a while, and usually look to Juno for my e-mail. I finally looked on Netscape and found several of your messages. I am taking notes and will send some messages soon. I'm glad your apple graft is coming along well. My tag on thet tree shows the variety to be IRUZO, but it may also be IRUZU. I understand it came from Costa Rica. On August 23rd there will be a tropical fruit seminar at Selby Gardens, in Sarasota, Florida. I have no further information at the present time, but will respond to e-mail at robsto@juno.com with any information that might come along. If I get more details I will send them to you. On Sunday, September 21st, the Sarasota Fruit and Nut Society will have a rare fruit tree sale at Phillipi Park on Route 41 in south Sarasot from ten to four. I will send you the e-mail address of the lady who will be running it. Her name is Debra Sims. That's all for now, Bob -------------------- Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 14:40:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jared Corbett Browning Hello, My name is Jared Browning and I live in Palo Alto, CA. I enjoy growing or attempting to grow tropical and sub/semi-tropical fruit on my windowsill and small back patio. Since moving to California one year ago, I have started the following plants from seed: cherimoya, key lime, sugar apple, carambola, guava, feijoa, mango, avocado, white sapote, pink grapefruit, blackberry-jam fruit, cashew apple, tamarind, raisin-tree, naranjilla, annatto, and tamarillo. I am also trying (not from seed) lychee, coffee, Chinese mombin, dwarf banana, pineapple, and Maclura. The plants that I would dearly love to grow next are ice-cream bean and star apple-- the latter I have tried from seed without success. I look forward to reading your thoughts in the Rare Fruit News Online. Sincerely, Jared Browning -------------------------- Date: Sat, 02 Aug 1997 15:26:53 +0000 From: sainaron@samart.co.th Subject: Re: Any Australian fruit grower? Are there any Australian fruit fruit grower reading this news group? I grow longans for a living in Thailand, and I would very much like to share discussions with you. -------------------------------- If you live in or near Florida, listen up!! From: robsto@juno.com Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 11:01:56 EDT For all Florida members: There will be a tropical fruit seminar at Selby Botanical Gardens in Sarasota on Saturday, August 23rd.Many experienced growers and experts will make presentations. There will be displays and printed material available. Usually there are fruit trees donated for a silent auction. The fee is $27.50, and includes a box lunch. Contact the gardens by phone at 941 054-1237 or by mail at 811 Palm Ave. South, Sarasota, FL 34236. For directions to the gardens, contact me at robsto@juno.com Bob Stone -------------------------------- Found on the Internet: Something else to subscribe to Subject: New Listserver for Banana, heliconia, ginger etc. Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:39:01 -0500 From: Keith Benson Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison Hello, All interested parties are invited to join the zingiber list, an internet group dedicated to the Order Zingiberales. Discussions will include the taxonomy, history, culture, and biology of Banana, Heliconia, Ginger, Strelitzia etc. We hope that this list will also serve to help members locate plant materials, but ask that commercial advertizing be kept to a minimum. Signup is on a webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/Zinlist.html or http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/Musa.html Hope to see some of you there! Keith --- Keith Benson DVM http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/ --------------------- Help! Tell me about my galapagos guava (Psidium galapagea) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 22:22:09 -0700 From: Richard Reid Leo: Please add me to your rare fruit mailing list, it sounds very interesting. I live in Lakeside, here in the SD foothills. I am currently growing citrus, avocados, star fruit, tropical guava, pineapple guava, jaboticaba, mammey sapote, black sapote, cherimoya, mango, lychee, longan, papaya, jakfruit, pineapple, bananna and probably others that I am forgetting about. I also have a standard assortment of temperate fruits (peaches, apples, grapes and so forth). I have been growing for about two years now, so I am still learning what will and will not grow out here. I do have a question; at one of the SD CRFG chapter meetings I won a plant called a galapagos guava (Psidium galapagea?), do you or any one know anything about this fruit? It is growing very well, but I cannot find any information on what it is. Thanks, And I look forward to the newsgroup, Richard Reid ------------------------------------- Want: Green Sapote Seeds! From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Green sapote Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:17:10 -0700 Hi Leo, I just read an old CRFG Yearbook (1973) and got inspired to try more types of sapotes, true sapotes that is. An article on green sapote (Pouteria viride) and Mamey sapote (P. sapota) gave me some ideas and now I need to find a source of green sapote seeds. Is there anyone on the newsletter mailing that has green sapote seeds that they can share? I can send peatmoss, bags and enough money to cover postage. A short note by Paul Thomson suggested that mamey sapote could be grown in California if it is grafted on a green sapote rootstock. So that's what I plan to do, once I get some green sapote seeds. I will also grow the green sapote for its fruit also. Thanks Leo. Later, Bob >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - August 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 09/01/97 17 This edition is a largish one again. Number of subscribers is about 95. That is enough that my email system is sometimes balky. IÕm going to try to divide the list into three parts, mailing each newsletter three times, so the likelihood of making errors on my part will be great. Be sure to let me know if you donÕt get the newsletter within a couple of days after I mail it. You know that it has been coming on the first and fifteenth of each month. I will try to keep that schedule, for the time being, anyway. My only concern is that IÕll screw it up, so IÕm counting on you to help me keep it on course. The NEEM supplement was too large, but I didnÕt want to edit it down. I should have looked for a description more slim, but didnÕt think of it. I think I may have another NEEM supplemt consisting of responses to the first one, but it will be a few days away. So, if you have anything to pass on about NEEM, you have time. I appreciate it when your Subject: line is descriptive of what your letter contains. Otherwise, I feel obliged to modify it, and that takes time.... Thanks to those who did! ---------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 12:22:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Keith Benson Subject: Tissue Culture Hello again, Anyone out there have experience with tissue culturing any of the zingiberales? I have tried bananas and would like some input from the more experienced. thanks, Keith --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 16 Aug 1997 22:57:27 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" To: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com Subject: Bananas - Exchanging Plants Bill, I'm growing some bananas in Lake Worth, a bit south of you. I do have a goldfinger, that I bought from Going Bananas, but I lost track of which plant it is. Eventually, after some of my bananas fruit, I may be able to figure it out, and by then should have some pups to share, if you are still looking for one. Meantime, if you would like a pisang raja, mine has a healthy pup that you are welcome to. I do have one small Jamaica Red you're welcome to, but it's never been healthy, so you would be risking spreading disease or nematodes into your plantings. I also have a Kru, that I would like to get rid of, because it hates nights that go below 40-some degrees. Do you have a greenhouse?? I have a couple questions for you: Has your golden aromatic fruited yet, that is, have you personally experienced the fragrance it's noted for? Someone in the local rare fruit club said that his golden aromatic plants produce good fruit, but not the aroma they are noted for in their native land. I'm interested in knowing a bit more about your Miracid regiman. Do you use standard strength? How much do you give each plant? Do you fertilize through the cool part of the winter as well? Dan Duprey - Central Palm Beach County, Florida ---------------------------------- Subject: Letters between Jeff Earl and Edward Gribble about BANANAS "Jeff Earl" Edward Gribble Subject: Information on FloridaÕs ŌGoing BananasĶ Somebody wanted specs on my neighbor, "Going Bananas". 24401 SW 197 Ave. Homestead, FL 33031 (305) 247-0397 He sells large, healthy, carefully prepared stock, and this care is reflected in his prices. Ed Griffin - egriffin@shadow.net - USDA Zone 10b (FL) - Sunset 25 ---------------------------- Subject: Fruit Drop (premature) From: Bill Burson: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 00:36:42 EDT About two weeks ago my Che bushes had ample berries to bring to the SD CRFG for the share table, but they weren't ripe yet. I haven't been able to visit them this last week because of a knee injury (my knee is trying to convince me that I cannot play full force with 7 year old kids without paying for it later). That aside, today I noticed that most of my Che berries have dropped (flavorless) and I have only <5% of what was there two weeks ago. I have been watering regularly and never fertilize so... Any ideas to prevent this for next year? By the way the ones that are left are exquisite. Any body that wants a few, can come over and taste them this week, I'm not sure they will last any longer than that. My Frederick has dropped so many PassionFruits that I may set up a roadside stand, I'd also sell some of the Strawberry Guava & Burgundy plums that are testing the limb strength of the mother tree. Bill Burson -------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 12:57:58 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: powaybill@juno.com Subject: Re: Fruit Drop (premature) Bill, I am amazed that you have ripe ches this time of the year. Mine won't be ready for another six weeks or more. It is hard to say what the cause of your fruit drop may have been. Try giving the bush some fertilizer next year. Don Gholston ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 02:01:26 -0700 From: "Jose M. Gallego" Subject: Re: Fruit Drop (premature) Hi Bill, The Che at Quail Gardens is also dropping some of its fruit and those that are ready on the tree their quality is poor. May be a couple of weeks more. One of the ways to find out what is going on is to test your soil. If you are coming to our meeting next week bring me some soil from your Che. Dig a hole about 6"-12" (or as soon as you see the feeding roots) at the middle of the drip line. Bring about 1/4 lb. If you want, you could make a composite from several holes around the tree. Also bring a couple its leaves. Give a call if you want to talk about it. As you mention, chances are that it may needed to be fertilized, more potassium and/or phosphate, but to be sure I could do a quick test on its soil. Save some, will ya? :^) ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 01:10:24 -0700 From: the ancient mariner Reply-To: sainaron@samart.co.th To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 08/01/97 15 I thought I am on your list of The RFNO. I must be mistaken as I have not received the mid-August issue at the time of writing. If I am not on your list, what must I do to get on it? Bless you for your work which benefits the community. -------- Leo replies: I'd like your name, please, and remind me of where you live and what you are interested in growing. Leo --------- And A. Mariner replies to LeoÕs reply: My name is Sainarong Rasananda. I live in Thailand. My e-mail address is as above. I grow longans, over 1000 of them, for a living. (I have been using the pseudonym, the ancient mariner, for a long time, and am too lazy to keep changing the 'option' box. I use the pseudonym even in correspondence with my children and my close friends). If you require anymore info, please let me know. Looking forward to hearing from you, and to receiving the RFNO. Sainarong Rasananda ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 1997 13:46:25 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: GA Concentration To: DGholston@aol.com, leom@rarefruit.com Don, Where would you purchase "Gibberellic Acid" and could you recommend a process for applying to bananas to promote growth and fruiting? Would I apply as a paste or a mixed spray? How much? Best Regards, Bill Monroe Zone 9 Palm Bay, Fl -------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 12:39:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com Subject: Re: GA Concentration Bill, Farm supply places (at least here in California) sell a Gibberellic Acid liquid product that is called Gib-Gro. I believe this is sprayed on the whole palnt. Attached is some information on the use of GA posted at our web site. It describes applying GA in a 1% lanolin paste to the growing bud. To get "pure" GA you probably need to go to a chemical supply compay. Monsanto is one that sells it I believe. Don Gholston Sent by Don Gholston Gibberellic Acid Gibberellic acid (actually a group of related substances called gibberellins) was discovered as a metabolic byproduct of the fungus Gibberella fujikuroi, which causes the stems of growing rice to elongate so rapidly the plant collapsed. Synthetic forms of gibberellic acid are available commercially. Gibberellic acid (GA) is a very potent hormone whose natural occurrence in plants controls their development. Since GA regulates growth, applications of very low concentrations can have a profound effect. Timing is critical: too much GA may have an opposite effect from that desired; too little may require the plant to be repeatedly treated to sustain desired levels of GA. Effects of Gibberellic Acid 1. Overcoming dormancy. Treatment with high concentrations of GA is effective in overcoming dormancy and causing rapid germination of seed. Concentrations of about 2 ppm can cause tubers to sprout earlier. 2. Premature flowering. If a plant is sufficiently developed, premature flowering may be induced by direct application of GA to young plants. This action is not sustained and treatment may have to be repeated. Formation of male flowers is generally promoted by concentrations of 10 to 200 ppm., female flowers by concentrations of 200 to 300 ppm. Concentrations of more than 600 ppm markedly suppresses initiation of both male and female flowers.] 3. Increased fruit set. When there is difficulty with fruit set because of incomplete pollination, GA may be effectively used to increase fruit set. The resulting fruit maybe partially or entirely seedless. GA has increased the total yield in greenhouse tomato crops both as a result of increased fruit set and more rapid growth of the fruit. 4. Hybridizing. Pollination within self-incompatible clones and between closely related species may some times be forced by the application of GA and cytokinin to the blooms at the time of hand pollination. 5. Increased growth. GA applied near the terminal bud of trees may increase the rate of growth by stimulating more or less constant growth during the season. In a Department of Agriculture experiment, the GA was applied as a 1% paste in a band around the terminal bud of trees. Treatment was repeated three times during the summer. Walnut tee growth was 8.5 ft. for treated trees, 1.5 ft. for untreated trees. 6. Frost protection. Spraying fruit trees at full-blossom or when the blossoms begin to wither can offset the detrimental effects of frost. 7. Root formation,. GA inhibits the formation of roots in cuttings Recipes Although GA is not listed as a "poison", the following precautions should be observed: Flush with water any GA that may get into the eye. Avoid skin contact if possible. If skin contact is suspected, wash with soap and water. Do not re-enter an area after spraying until the GA spray is fully dry. Avoid ingestion of GA. The powder may be dissolved as specified below to give the desired concentration. Concentration GA Water Purpose parts/million mg. ml (or cup) _________________________________________________________________ 50-------------125--------2400---10 1/2-----Early flowering 200------------125---------600----2 1/2-----Early flowering 800------------125---------160------2/3-----Blossom set 2000-----------125----------60------1/4-----Seed germination 1% paste-------125----------1 tsp. lanolin--Growth promoter =========================================================== To: leom@rarefruit.com Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:25:52 +0200 From: Jack Tomlinson Hi, while searching for useful info on longan I came upon your site My name is Jack Tomlinson and I am a litchi farmer in South Africa. My orchard is 16 years old and is really giving me great fruit I live in a little town called "Hazy View", situated in the eastern lowveld of the now Mpumalanga province. To make it easier to find on a map, we are 25Km from the Kruger National Park's south western border. Our elevation is about 550 metres above sea level. My litchi's (lychee) are of the Mauritius cultivar, my mango's are Kent, my avacado's are Pinkerton and Fuerte and I also have a few hundred Macadamia nut trees cultivar unknown, but great bearers.Our rainfall is in the region of 600-900 mm per year, mostly from August to March. During the winter months we have to irrigate.It is done with micro irrigation delivering approx. 100 Litres per hour. I also planted some longan a couple of weeks ago, but can not get a cultivar name from my supplier. So I am really in the dark, will surely make the best of it. Looking forward to hearing from you Jack ---------------------------------------- From: Darryl Clark Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 05:55:10 +0000 Subject: Star Fruit from seed and plant/seed exchange Darryl Clark wrote: > > Hello again Leo: > > Have you ever tried to grow Star Fruit from seed? My local supermarket has a few of them on the shelf and I was wondering if this experiment will end up being a complete waste of time. Also is it acceptable to ask for plant/seed trading partners through your newsletter? Thanks again! Darryl Clark ------------ Leo replies: Darryl, I haven't tried to grow Star Fruit from seed. I will post your letter to see if any of the readers respond. It's ok to post what you have to trade and want to receive, but be careful of import regulations into your location. So long as the major focus of of this newsletter is exchange of information about plants, I have no objection to an occasional such post. Leo ---------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: "'jeff.earl@ccc-infonet.edu'" Cc: "'Leo Manuel'" Subject: bananas Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:23:51 -0700 Hello Jeff, I saw your comments on bananas in Modesto and thought I would give you my ideas. You might consider a top over the banana plants for the winter, one that the leaves don't touch. It would save some of the leaves from freezing, especially if you put a 110 W light (or larger) at the base of the plants for heat. The Orinoco is the hardiest variety I have seen so far. The fruit has three sides, it's quite triangular. There are better eating bananas, but in your climate non that could take the cold and still mature fruit. Keep up the good work! Sincerely, Bob Holzinger ----------- Bob, You are right. I could save some of the leaves if I covered my Banana trees, but I found that to be somewhat of a hassle. Also the fruit bunch dosent seem to be affected much by the loss of leaves during winter. I try to time my plantings so that my trees are around 4 ft tall when winter comes, that way they have time to regrow at least 10 leaves before they flower in July. This seems to be a sufficiant number to bring the fruit to maturity in October. They average 7 hands of 8 Bananas. Your description of the Orinoco Banana leaves me wondering if my trees are of that Variety. All of my Bananas have at least 4 sides, not the 3 that you mention. Have you seen my web page? Its at ....http://www.thevision.net/jearl/ I have pictures of my plants and fruit, perhaps you could help me verify my trees. Jeff Earl Modesto, CA --------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 01:08:40 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Standard format for e-mails The Rare Fruit Online News is getting voluminious. Every message is very interesting. However, some readers may be interested in certain subjects only. To help these readers shift through the news quickly, may I suggest that you, Leo, set up a standard format for all correspondence? For example, The 'subject' should describe precisely what the content of the message is about. Thanks for a very useful newsletter. Sainarong ------------ Sainarong, and to all readers of Rare Fruit News Online, I hadn't thought about asking the readers to make the SUBJECT be descriptive, but it would help me a lot, also. Believe it or not, I've edited many of the SUBJECT contents, (as well as the MESSAGES) to make them more meaningful. May I also ask, that you edit to remove the "> quotations " unless they're needed for clarity. And, I also ask that you not interweave your answers with the "> quotations " as it complicates editing. In other words, as much as possible, let's try to keep our good humor, but also aim for clarity and brevity when possible. I may try to include the SUBJECT of each message that's going to be in the newsletter at the top of the newsletter, so you can go directly to what you most are interested in. That is, if the SUBJECTS get to be sufficiently descriptive. I'm not complaining - I'm happy with the interest that the newsletter has generated, but I think YOU will find RFNO more inviting when the rest of YOU have done this. Leo -------------------------------------------------------- From: "Staples, Ian" To: Leo Manuel Subject: On the subject of Subjects & quotations Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:05:00 +1000 G'day Leo. You surprised me by saying: >> Sainarong, and to all readers of Rare Fruit News Online, I hadn't thought about asking the readers to make the SUBJECT be descriptive ... What's the point of "Subject:" if people don't use it?? But then I realised that some of my own colleagues often send out messages that give no idea of their content until they are read -- and often one has to "open" an attachment to do that. [And then find it's of no interest whatsoever. :) ] So, yes, it would be very useful (I should have thought, mandatory) if people would use sensible "Subjects" in their contributions to you. However, I'm not quite in such full agreement with this: >> May I also ask, that you edit to remove the "> quotations " unless they're needed for clarity. And, I also ask that you not interweave your answers with the "> quotations " as it complicates editing. I guess it rather depends on the topic and the contribution, but it is certainly an old Usenet protocol to quote material one is responding to in the course of the actual response, so readers can quickly see the "cause and effect" of each point made, so to speak. But that may be more in the context of a "debate" than simply providing information in response to a request. I notice that some people in Usenet discussion groups insist on quoting the whole of a previous contribution, even if only responding to a few specific points embedded in it. While there may be some argument for this practice in an adversarial "debating" situation -- so that you can't be accused of "taking material out of context", for example -- I personally find it a nuisance to have to work though reams of previously read material only to find a few "Me too's" buried in it. :-) But the thing that most annoys me is the practice of including the *whole* of a previous contribution as a simple appendage to a response. What a waste of bandwidth! (Aided and abetted I might add, by the that stupid default of "quote the lot back" implemented in Microsoft's mail systems. I'm sure that, at least half the time, users don't even realise they are doing it!) Cheers, Ian Staples ------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:16:46 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Re: Star Fruit from seed and plant/seed exchange Thanks again Leo, I really appreciate the way you handle this newsletter. I would read 100 pages of this info if it got that large. Take care. Darryl Clark ---------------------- From: "Greg Daley." Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:27:01 +1000 In reply to "Any Australian Longan grower" Sainarong Rasananda (2nd August). Let me introduce myself, I operate a Subtropical fruit and nut nursery in Australia (Northern NSW) and propagate quite an extensive range of fruit and nuts and am always fascinated about anything new. Regards Longans I have a good friend that grows them commercially and has found quite a good market late in the season following the lychees. Our latitude is 29 degrees south of the equator with mild winters. This friend does not have internet connection so he cannot reply. He used to grow quite an extensive selection of exotic fruits, but as the demand for economics out of his block of land became more important he has gradually increase his longan trees in preference to other less productive types. I have been propagating Longans and do find them rather difficult to graft. I have discovered though cincturing the scionwood in Mid summer and grafting in Autumn 2 months later the most successfull. Marcotting is also more difficult than Lychees but it certainly is quite viable. If any one has any ideas or tips they would be appreciated. It is one week off the beginning of Spring here now and we are grafting all sorts of trees at present. If any one is interested in Pecan propagation I feel we have perfected container propagaton of grafted trees. We can grow an excellant grafted tree from seed germination to grafted tree ready to plant out within 18mths. HereÕs a question for someone. Can Canistel or Yellow Sapote be grafted onto Pouteria obovata successfully? Regards to all Rare fruit lovers Greg Daley gdaley@nrg.com.au ---------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 07:15:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Subject: Rare Fruit: Castor Beans Hi Leo Well castor beans aren't rare and most people wouldn't think of them as fruit, but I think people on this list can help. I lost our nice tall red-leaved strain when we moved and so bought some more seed. They turn out to be a stunted ugly shade of green plant that has not yet reached halfway to my knees. I use castor beans as quick shade a lot. Would anyone have seed of a nice tall variety? I'll work out a trade or just pay for the seed. Dan Hemenway -------------------------------- From: Clarence Hester Subject: Whatever happened to Richardson's? On the subject of bananas, does anyone know what has happened to Richardson's Seaside Banana Nursery in La Conchita, California? I have posted on rec.gardens and other lists, and have even gotten some responses back from Ventura, CA area gardeners. Still, no one has the answer. A synopsis of what I've heard (and partially confirmed) is that their phone number is **definitley** disconnected, and has been for several months. On the other hand, people say they've driven by there and they are still open for business as recently as 3 weeks ago. Why does it matter? For one thing, I found Richardson's to be the best source for some of the harder-to-find bananas. Also, the corms they shipped were huge and very healthy, although considerably more expensive than Going Bananas in Homestead, FL. Richardson's always had the Ae Ae, Ele Ele and others in stock and you didn't have to wait for months on end. Also, while I've heard from several sources that some types of bananas in South Florida (e.g., Apple, Ice Cream) had come down with some type of Panama disease, I didn't hear the same about the CA bananas. (BTW, the Panama disease thing about Florida must have some truth to it. For example, "Robert is Here" tropical fruit in Florida City no longer grows their own Apple Bananas because of the virus problem). [BTW--don't misinterpret that I don't support Going Bananas or other Florida nurseries, because they are great in their own respect and much more reasonably priced. My only issue is that you have to look around sometimes for the harder to find varieties] If anyone knows the dirt on Richardson's, please let the list know. I plan to write them to see if they still respond that way. Don't bother calling the phone number that you can find on the net; it is definitely disconnected and there is no new listing. Clarence Hester -------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 19:51:44 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Darryl Clark Subject: Find a source for Musa basjoo? Darryl, if you find a source for Musa basjoo that is reasonable, I'd like to know about it. Also, how edible is that one? With an alternate name of Japanese fiber banana, it makes me wonder.... Leo ------ Leo, I have to agree Fiber Banana is not the most appetizing description. The most info I've seen was in the Oregon Exotics catalog (503) 846-7578. I haven't seen it reasonable anywhere. My goal is to find someone who is willing to trade a pup. The taste has been described to me as "good but seedy". I would love to learn more/ acquire one of these so if you hear anything more about it please let me know. I will of course do the same! Take Care, Darryl Clark ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 15:06:57 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Musa basjoo - banana Leo, My information sources tell me: "M. basjoo is a native of the Ryuku Islands, just south of Japan. It grows about 10 ft. tall and, like M. ensete, is somewhat more resistant to cold than most other kinds of bananas." This doesn't sound close to the cold hardiness given by Stokes. Another source of M. basjoo is Lousiana Nursery, Rt. 7, Box 43, Highway 182, Opelousas, LA 70570. Don Gholston ----------------------------- Hello Leo: Have you found your Basjoo yet? I have read a little more about taste and it sounds good, it does have seeds though. I'm wondering if you have seen any information on it's genetic parenthood? That would be quite interesting. Take care. Anxiously awaiting your next newletter! Darryl ------------ No, Darryl, but I've not actively searched much for it. I thought it would be something for relatives in Kansas and Oklahoma to try, but I seriously doubt that it's as cold tolerant as I first heard. However, if a reasonably priced one shows up, I'll take a chance on it. Leo -------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Musa basjoo Hi Leo, From the description of this banana I would say that it's for fiber and ornamental reasons one would grow it, not for the fruit. This is reinforced when I looked it up in Cornucopia by Steve Facciola. He will list every obscure culinary use of a plant and all he says about this banana is that the nectar is drinkable. Period. From that I sure wouldn't grow it for the fruit. Now, after all that, if still want to seek it out, Steve lists two sources of M. basjoo in his book: 1) Copacabana Gardens (415) 254-2302, PO Box 232, Moraga, CA 94556 2) Louisiana Nursery (318) 948-3696, Route 7, Box 43, Opelousas, LA 70570 Both places have catalogs for a couple of bucks. Happy hunting! Later, Bob ----------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:00:00 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda To: moshe@coqui.net Subject: Re: Longans in Thai land to summarize about what I have already written in bits and pieces in other e-mails. longans is probably native to southern china and india. somehow thailand appears to be the biggest producer of longans. it is our number one fresh fruit export. in the past year, we have started a dried longan industry for export. the majority of longans are for consumption by chinese. the caucasians deem longans too sweet. most of our export goes to hong kong, and from there to china. I understand that dried longan is part of the ingredients of a chinese concoction to stimulate sexual prowess. longan technology is pretty undeveloped in thailand for various reasons which I shall not go into. however, recently, the authority have woken up to the fact that it is our number export, and there will be plenty of competitors, from vietnam, china, indonesia, taiwan and maybe australia. so they are beginning to set up funds for longan research. however, government is very inefficient. if we wait for them, we may never get anywhere. so I intend to complement their work. I am considering setting up a national longan growers association, and work with the government. at the moment, I doubt we know how many species there are around the world. as to the cultivation of longan, I find that experience and knowledge of the long-time small uneducated growers are more reliable than books written by so-called experts who probably have not visited a longan orchard! I am not saying that technical knowledge are no good. I have great faith in technology. I am saying that we have not done adequate proper research into longans. the agronomists here know much more about mangoes, and, to a lesser extent litchi, and I think they are extrapolating their finding to cover longans without adequate field works. so your thoughts and inputs will be very welcome. any info you have whatsoever on longans will also be very welcome. Sainarong Rasananda ------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:16:24 +0800 Hi there, My name is John Sojka and I am very interested in your news group .I would like to know if I could join in, though I do not know what to do. I live in Albany Western Australia.We have a temperate climate and rarely get a frost or extremely hot summer days.(however there are exceptions we had 4 days of minus 1 oC which set me back a bit) I am a christian Pastor, and growing wierd as well as normal fruit trees is a hobby I have got into in the last couple of years. As well as fishing it is a nice escape to keep life balanced. I only have a 730 square meter block and I have just about filled up my yard with fruit trees and a hothouse that is very full. Here is what I grow some of which is only small and is in my hothouse at present:Cherry (stella),White Sapote (definately my favourite fruit though mine are not yet bearing) Apples, Fuyu Persimmons, Fejioa, Cherry Guava, Inga (ice cream bean), Apricot, Nectarine, Tree tomatos (yellow & purple), Grumichamas, Abius, Custard Apples, Whampi, Various Paw Paws, Currants, Babacos, Banana and normal passion fruit. There are many other varieties I have too many to name Oh also The Black Persimmon. one of my joys is to look for rare fruit in the shops, save the seeds and grow them.I am not sure what will come of them but one day I may find someone who can send me cuttings to graft. My poor wife is very patient with me as her laundry is full of my prize seedlings over winter.My miracle fruit tree (which is now fruiting) often gets in her way. If anyone has access to the following seeds I would like to hear from you if you can send me a small quantity. I am after the CASANA a relative of the Tree tomato.I also wish to get seed of the LUCMO, ASIMINA TRILOBA .I am happy to cover postage and costs.. So thats my story,I am always on the lookout for new fruit and contacts. I look forward to keeping in touch with you and your news group. Kind regards and best wishes from downunder, John Sojka --------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" To: "'wmonroe@mailb.harris.com'" Subject: bananas Date: Mon, 25 Aug 1997 08:09:42 -0700 Hi Bill, You are looking for a source of bananas. If you haven't visited "Going Bananas" in Homestead, then I suggest a trip to check them out. They have a good selection of varieties and usually have some fruit on hand that you can taste and compare. Their address is: 24401 S.W. 197 Avenue Homestead, Fl 33031-1174 (305) 247-0397 The owners are Don and Katie Chafin who are very friendly and willing to give a tour of the grove and answer any questions, as well as offer fruit to taste. They are also growing lychee and longans, which may be of some interest. Their place is just down the street and around the corner from The Redlands Fruit and Spice Park, so you can get two stops in one trip! Take care. Best wishes, Bob Holzinger ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 12:19:34 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Subject: What to do with my Inga? John Sojka wrote: I am also interested in finding out what to do with my Inga---Ice cream Bean as I have no information on it. Leo replied: I have an Inga, and it makes a very large spreading tree with large 12 inch one-inch diameter beans. The tree grows rapidly and makes a good shade tree, and fixes nitrogen, I believe, so it has value IF you have room for it. It makes a great climbing tree for the child in each of us. The beans are a curiosity, favored by youngsters for a while, but not of much value to my knowledge. The pulp around the seeds is sweet, but has no other flavor, and must be harvested soon after reaching maturity, as the seeds begin to sprout on the tree in the pods, ruining the pulp for later consumption. The beans fall around, making additional cleanup necessary. However, I like the tree in my yard where it is planted, but there isn't another place in my yard were I would even consider planting it, now that I see how large it gets. Leo ------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Subject: Looking for CASANA, LUCMO, and seeds of Asimina Triloba, etc. Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:10:46 +0800 Dear Leo, I wonder if you could Email me your previous newsletters? I found the one you sent me very interesting. I found another Australian Barry White, can you let me know the Email address of the other Australian or pass on mine to them. As I mentioned in my last Email can you include my details in the next newsletter including my request for seeds. I am interested in many types but especially the CASANA, LUCMO, and seeds of a good quality low chill Asimina Triloba.I am also interested in finding out what to do with my Inga---Ice cream Bean as I have no information on it. I may take some time replying to some Emails as I will be on holidays from 29th August to 14th of September but I am very keen to keep in touch.I leave a website link in case you are interested in seeing where I live in Australia. My best wishes to you and your wife and family.(and dog Jocko ). See---------- http://worf.albanyis.com.au/aol/welcome.html Regards John Sojka ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 22:32:16 -0400 From: Bob and Robinn Eck Hello tropical fruit growers, Somehow clicked my way to your webpage. This web stuff is so cooool.. Since newsgroups on 'rare fruit' are even rarer, my wife and I would enjoy receiving email on tropical fruit. Here in S FL we grow mango, lychee, mamey, sapodilla, sugar apple, atemoya, ilama, jackfruit and of course, citrus on a typical city lot. Small area but productive since we try to grow only semi-dwarf varieties and/or prune alot. Jackfruit hold particular interest lately since several dwarf varieties with small fruit (for shipping) are being tried here. Wish cherimoyas fruited reliably here. Have heard that 'Spain' will occassionally produce fruit in S Fl. Might try to make room for that variety. Regards, Bob and Robinn Eck near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida -------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 07:27:50 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (Bill Monroe) Subject: Carambola (Star Fruit) Greetings All: In my back yard I am growing the Carrie, Shrieken Begin (sic), and the Fuang Tung (sic). I would like to add additional sweet varieties of carambola to my collection. I am asking the readers of this newsgroup to submit their choices for sweet carambola varieties. For example, the Maha and Arkan. In addition, please add a note on sun/shade requirements, watering, and any other information you may think is pertinent to a fellow rare fruit grower. Thanks!! Bill Monroe Zone 9 ------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 15:39:07 -0400 From: Sven Nehlin Subject: Seeds from Trinidad I am interested in some rare seeds from Trinidad. Have you got any contact there? I can offer you most of the Venezuelan fruits and I am an old member of Rare Fruit Council International, Regards, Sven Nehlin ----------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 09:55:47 -0400 (EDT) From: FinulaM@aol.com Hi, I would like to receive your letter. I have been growing the rare and unusual with a stress on the useful and beautiful for much of my life. I usually start with seeds and then see what will survive an indoor winter in zone 5. This May a very unseasonable frost killed my theobroma, baobob, cashew, avocado, orchids, passion fruit and a host of other more ordinary things. I am slowly starting again. I have purchased seed from a number of mail houses and I will see what comes up. I would very much like to know what does well overwintering indoors, what are people's favorite fruits, can I get some ripe fruits from which to extract viable seed or perhaps seeds which are already germinating. My two most particular goals are to grow Tea and Cocoa. I have some sonensis that just arrived from the Banana tree. They were already germinating but were culturing mold from the delay in the mail. I treated them with fungicide and planted them and am now waiting to see how they do. I am told that there are three main species of Cocoa with one being the common bland commercial chocolate and the other two being more delicate and much more flavorful. I would very much like to be able to try my hand at the propogation of the latter two. I live in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We tend to have a cold, wet winter; with a number of sub zero days each year. This summer has been unusually cool. We usually have several days over 100 and many weeks in the 90's with high humidity. This year has been so cool and often wet that we don't even have any ripe tomatoes in our garden yet! That is at least three weeks behind the usual. Pittsburgh is home to the Phipps Conservatory, which was where I got my successful cocoa beans. One of the staff was kind enough to give me a pod from their specimen tree. We probably have about another month where sunlight will be hot enough at times to germinate tropicals. Our weather at the moment in running about 30 degrees cooler than usual at the moment. I have bought several grow bulbs to help encourage things through the winter. I also use the steam radiators to provide strong bottom heat. Any advice or leads are most welcome Finula McCaul ------------------------------------------------------- From: Sal Schettino Subject: All-Spice Flower/No Fruit; Quadrangularis- Not Tasty I had my all spice flower this year but no fruit no berries... Is it because I need a male and a female ? I have had quadrangularis fruit here in Carpinteria for over 8 years and was wanting to know how do you eat it? It does not seem to tasty out of hand when ripe and I was thinking maybe you cook it or dry it or eat it green or something. I do enjoy the flower,. I am a member of CRFG. I grow mangoes, sotote, lechie, macadaimia nuts , Cherimoya,ect. Thanks Sal Schettino Carpinteria, Ca. ------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 07:04:23 +0800 From: adrian colley Hi Leo, love your photo at the intro - beautiful. We're on the bottom edge of the world in Bunbury Western Australia (next stop Antarctica) but we're blessed with a good climate. There's a couple of us down here who grow rare fruits On my place I have feijoa, guava, kei apple, grapes, olives, grumichamas, macadamia, cattley guava, apples, papaya, 2 citrus, pasion fruit, cherimoya, white sapote, white shartoot, and probably something else I can't recall right now - yes, just put in an acerola. I hope next year to start experimenting with our own native Santalum species; sandalwood and quandong. I've just come back from the arid lands and been impressed by the nuts and fruit of both. Keep up the good work Adrian ----------------------------- Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 19:04:57 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Signoff Hello Leo: I just want you to know that your signoff "hordicordially" is way cool! It reminds me of times past when everyone seemed to have time to write at some level, even if it was just grandma letters. I was important to have a more nifty way of saying goodbye to people you liked, than just "sincerely" or "yours truly". I've been tempted to borrow your stroke of linguistic cleverness, but decided that those who knew me would know instantly that I could not have invented it. So, instead I'll just use "Happy Horticulture" for a while to see how it fits. Happy Horticulture! Darryl Clark ------------------------------- Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 11:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Joel Moskowitz: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: Giant White Fly - What Works For Control? An epidemic has beset fruit and exotic plant growers in San Diego. The Giant White Fly. They especially love hibiscus. My inquiry is to poll the readership as to what methods have proven successful in eradicating these noxious creatures. Joel Moskowitz ------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 06:28:30 -0400 (EDT) From: John Fernandez Hi Leo: I'm in Melbourne, Florida east of Orlando. My name is John Fernandez. I'm already gowing many kinds of rare fruit in my yard. Right now I'm getting Atemoyas, lemons, starfruit, and guavas. I have Japnaese persimmons, white sapote, jaboticaba, pineapple, canistel, fejoia, IIIama, sugar apple, soursop, lychee, inga, papaya, malabar chestnut, and longan, including many others. I'm interested in anything new and different from the usual rare fruit. Any info would be appreciated. John >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - September 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 09/15/97 18 The number of readers is about 100 now! It's amazing that there are so many countries represented, and so many states outside of the sub-tropics in the US. Please include your name in any correspondence to me or to Rare Fruit News Online. I like to know to whom I'm responding. Also PLEASE have the SUBJECT be relevant to what you're discussing. It is a courtesy to readers who want to spend the limited time they have available reading what's most interesting to them. I hope you are almost as pleased as I am with the community of readers/growers of Rare Fruit News Online. Thanks! Leo ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 97 00:04:25 UT From: "Raymond Gerlach" Subject: Musa Basjoo Going Bananas has Basjoo as does Stokes Tropicals. I was on a waiting list for it at Going Bananas and Katie just informed me that it and an Ele Ele are being shipped to me. Unfortunately I still have a while to wait to get my Ae Ae. Until the last two newsletters I thought that I was the only banana nut out there. Anyone want to trade pups? Leo, The newsletter is great reading, thanks for all the effort. Ray -------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 18:46:29 -0400 (EDT) From: FinulaM@aol.com Subject: Re:musa basjoo source Hi, Stokes tropicals has musa bajoo and a number of other lovelies very much on sale right now. With the additional online discount, I just ordered 10 corms and plantelets from them for about 100$. Still looking for cocoa! Finula ------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 20:30:32 -0500 From: Adam Benson Subject: New Subscriber from Texas I have three papayas, a tangerine, and 5 huge banana patches. I have not gotten any fruit from my banana trees yet, some of them are over 2 years old. I like 30 miles south east of San Antonio, Texas is zone 29/28. There are some winters were there are no freezes and some winters like the last two when the temp have dropped to 20 degrees, but only for like one night. In downtown San antonio on the river walk they have 10,000+ banana trees! Some of these are real old, they were planted 30 to 40 years ago, and they fruit every year. The river walk also has some papaya, and citrus (grapefruit, orange and tangerine), plus thousands of other tropical and sub-tropicals plants. There river walk is in a micro climate and stays about 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the area. Supposely there is a coconut palms growning somewhere on the river walk, but i can't find it. There is a hong kong orchid tree that is about 25 years old and that is about 30 feet tall. At the botanical garden they have huge papaya trees, that have lot of fruit. There was a papaya tree on Fort Sam army base that was bigger than a house, but it died a couple of years ago in a 20 degree freeze. Most people do not know this but there are many citrus plants in San Antonio, mostly tangerines. Some are huge trees, and a few ruby red grapfruits brought up from the lower rio grande valley also grow here in protected spots. San Antonio is in 4 climate zones, 28, 29, 30 and 31 and border lines zone 9a and zone 8b Adam -------------------------------------- From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: Tropical Fruit To: John Hello, I also live in Melbourne (actually Palm Bay). I am a member of the Brevard/Indian River Rare Fruit Council. Maybe we've met?? Anyway, if you would like to get together for trade and information please feel free to contact me at: wmonroe@harris.com 14077274191 (work) For a source of bananas you can contact my friend John Rodgers at 725-1923. John lives in Melbourne and has over 35 different varieties of bananas growing on his three acres of land. John sells at $7.50 per plant. In addition, John has fruiting cherimoyas, atemoyas, ingas', mangos, and avacados among his extensive collection. John does not have on-line access, but it is okay to contact via telephone. Regards, Bill Monroe ----------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 12:37:19 -0400 From: CJackson@mailb.harris.com (CJackson) Subject: Please add me to your list Hi, I am a friend of Bill Monroe's and he passed along the info about your list. I live in Central Florida on the east coast near the ocean. I am currently growing: Carambola, Sugar Apple, Longan, Lychee, Avocado, Guava, Macadamia, Fried Egg Tree, Strawberry Fruit tree, Monstera, Barbados Cherry, Grumichama Cherry, White and Black Sapote, Bombax Glabra, Sapodilla, Chiemito, Inge, Miracle Fruit and various bananas. I have been doing this for about 3 years now and my efforts are just starting to pay off with fruit. Look forward to future correspondence, Chuck Jackson Grant, Florida Zone 9 ------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:27:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Pluots and dinosaurs A while back there were many messages on pluots. Some (including one by me) noted that some of the pluots were being marketed as "Dinosaur Balls" or "Dinosaur Eggs." I have since been informed that the Dinosaur Ball is the name that was originally proposed for Flavor Queen and that Dinosaur Egg is Dapple Dandy. The "Dinosaur" names were suggested because the fruits were devloped around the time of the Jurassic Park movie, but I think the story is that Dave Wilson objected, and registered them under the Flavor Queen and Dapple Dandy names. Apparently the commercial growers have revivied the dinosaur names. I had described Dinosaur Egg as pinkish. Some descriptions of Dapple Dandy that I have read describe the fruit as white-fleshed and others describe it as red-fleshed. I perceived it as pink, which I guess means I'm just splitting the difference! Matthew Shugart ---------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:27:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Banana and mango ripening Greetings. I have fruit for the first time on an 'Ice Cream' banana that I planted about a year and a half ago. I also have fruit on a 'Valencia Pride' mango that has been in the ground since spring, 1995, but never before held its fruit past a very immature stage. I am not sure what to expect in terms of how long till it ripens or even how to identify when it is ripe. So, I am looking for advice. The banana started forming its fruit in early July, I think. They are now well formed, but still bluish-green. Does this variety turn yellow as it ripens? Or what? The mango tree, which is about 6 feet tall, has six or so fruits on it that are the size of fairly large avocados. They are still mostly green, but some are starting to develop a reddish blush at the stem end. How do I determine when they are ripe? I know not all mango varieties are the same color at maturity. Anyone out there with experience with this particular variety? My location is Carlsbad, CA, about 1.5 miles from the ocean. So the biggest issue would seem to be getting enough heat. The bananas are against a southeast-facing wall. The mango is just in an open spot in the backyard, but definitely full sun and I put some white rocks on the south side to try to reflect some heat. My location is hot for a coastal area, but it is still coastal. Any special care in terms of watering or fertlizing (or not) that I should follow between now and what I hope will be a successful harvest? I have not fed either since early July, but have continued the same irrigation as before the fruit formed. Thanks for any help anyone might be able to give! Good growing. Matthew Shugart ------ NOTE: Matt, Steve White bought Paul Thomson's Edgehill property, with the mangos there. Steve claims that if he could only grow one mango, it would be Valencia Pride. My obversations is that it seems to bloom over a very long interval, so that one probably could have two trees, and have one bear early and the other late, by removing the young mangos on the one you want to bear late. I'd let the fruit change color and begin to feel just a little soft, before picking any, or possibly let the first one ripen on the tree, before picking any, and then pick others to ripen off the tree, if you like. Leo ---------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 15:27:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Mystery fruit While traveling in the Czech Republic, I encountered a fruit that was unfamilair to me. I wonder if anyone can identify it by my description. It was round, about the size of a cherry (or a bit larger), bright orange in color, had a husk like a tomatillo or gooseberry, and was sweet. It was presented as a topping on an ice cream dessert. The husk would lead me to believe it was related to tomatillo or gooseberry, but it definitley was not like any variety of those fruits that I've ever had. Matthew Shugart ------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 22:04:15 -0400 From: WALT ROWE Subject: star fruit from seed Leo, Darryl Clark asked for information on growing star fruit from seed. Please inform him that it is a viable option. I have personally fruited Fuang Tung and Kari seedlings. Both came true from seed. In fact I have one Kari seedling that fruited for the first time this year. Not only was the taste identical to the parent tree (that was a grafted Kari), but to date the fruit has been seedless and fiberless. There are still about 24 pieces of nearly ripe fruit on the tree so the jury is still out as to whether they are all seedless but I'm hoping! The Fuang Tung also tasted identical to the parent plants. It takes 30-45 days for the seeds to germinate and mine fruited at 2 years of age. I have 18 seedlings at the present time ranging in age from 1 to 3 years. I also have my grafted collection. Happy Planting Walt Rowe ----------------------------- To: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: Giant White Fly From: powaybill@juno.com (Bill Burson) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:04:23 EDT I had a small outbreak on ~ 4-5 citrus trees @ my home. I sprayed them with Dr. Bronner's Peppermint Castille Soap diluted to ~ 20%. I applied it with a pump style hand (1 gallon) sprayer and did not wash it off. This was a few months ago & if it doesn't work, please do not tell the white flys as they have not yet returned. Bill --------------------------- NOTE: Bill, I sprayed some pepper plants that were infested with the Giant White Fly with Neem oil extract. It knocked them down BUT the effects were short lived. The bugs are back in full force within a few days of spraying. Leo --------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 09:44:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Re: Giant White Fly I found a product called Jungle Rain to be very effective. I think it contains basically the same soap, plus a citrus oil. Sunshine Gardens sells it. It is fairly expensive. If Dr. Bronner's works just as well, maybe I'll go with that next time instead. Matthew Shugart --------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 01:37:03 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Re: [Fwd: star fruit from seed] Hello Leo: Thank you and Walt for the star fruit info. I appreciate the encouragement from Walt. It difficult not knowing how long is reasonable to wait for something to happen that may never happen. I've planted one seed so far. If anyone has a few seeds they want to share I'd be much obliged. The local markets (Charlotte NC) rarely have such interesting produce for sale. Anyone else from this locale out there? Know of any good tropical fruit stands? Also, regarding the neem article. I posted the medicinal part of your article to a medicinal herbs list that I subscribe to. No one has expressed interest so far. The list seems to be very sensitive to the wild caims that a abundant in the health food and herb industries. I thought I'd get a quick confirmation or rebuttal. So far no interest. I guess neem isn't the "third rail" topic I thought it would be. Take Care. DC ------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 11:37:53 -0400 From: Martin Tanner Subject: Pests and Indoor Gardening Hi, I was wondering if you could help me or direct me to someone who can. I live in Chicago and I am trying to grow several citron trees. The trees are in large pots and are currently about 4-6 ft high. Last winter the trees were in my living room where they developed a terrible infestation of (what I believe to be ) mites. There was substantial webbing under the leaves and a webbing on the leaves toward the top of the tree and where there was new leaf growth. I brought the trees outside this spring and that problem seems to have vanished. Can I expect the mites to return this winter? How do I protest the trees? Should I spray them before I bring them in (probably in late October)? Another question deals with bearing fruit. The trees do blossom but only a very small percentage of the blossoms (1-3%) turn into fruit. The ones that do turn into (tiny) fruit eventually fall off. The trees are actually quite lush now and are in blossom- but the blossums are fruitless. I can see lots of filaments with pollen- but no stigma. The trees are about 4 years old. How can I get them to be more fruit bearing and to retain their fruit? I thank you in advance, Martin Tanner ------------------------- Picked Up Off The 'Net FYI for indoor lights for plants. Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:32:53 +0000 Subject: Lighting: Indoor Gardening List Gotta go with metal halide, here is something that was posted on the indoor gardening list that will better explain the lighting choices than I can: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Basic unit for the total amount of light = lumen light intensity (this is what really counts) is expressed in lumens / area the common expression of light intensity is the foot candle which = 1 lumen per square foot direct summer sunlight = about 10,000 foot candles direct winter sunlight can drop to about 7,000 foot candles the closer you can get these light intensities the better next chapter: light output..... incandesant lights generate about 4 lumens per watt, so a 100 wat bulb generates 400 lumens total. if you could concentrate all of this bulbs light energy so that is falls on 1 square foot, the light intensity would be 400 foot candles. realistically you could probably only obtain about 60% of this, so 240 foot candles. if you spread this to a 2x2 area... 400 lumens / 4 = 100 foot candles quartz halogens do only slightly better at around 10 lumens per watt 1000 watt * 10 lumens = 10000 lumens, assuming 40% loss = 600 lumens / 1 sq ft. = 600 foot candles if you spread this to a 2 x2 area, 600 lumens / 4 sq. ft = 150 foot candles under this you could grow low light plants assuming you can deal with the heat mercury vapor = about 30 lumens per watt 100 watt mercury vapors are pretty rare common houshold yard lights are 70 watt 70 watt * 30 = 2100 lumens, the reflectors are a bit better in these fistures, so lets assume 75% effeciency 2100 * .75 = 1575 lumens spread this over a 2 x 2 grow area = 1575/4 sq ft = 393 foot candles with this we can still grow only very low light plants full size flourescent = about 75 lumens per watt since the fixtures are 4 ft long lets assume our grow area is 4' x 4' and we use enough fixtures to fill in the earea shoulder to shoulder, this = about 8 fixtures with 2 40watt tubes in each. this gives us 16 tubes * 40 watts = 640 watts total. 640 watts * 75 lumens = 48000 total lumens. lets assume 75% effeciency.... 48000 * .75 = 36000 lumens over a 4' x 4' grow area (this would assume that we have the fixtures right down on top of the plants 36000 lumens / 16 sq ft = 2250 foot candles (remember daylight is 10,000 fc) we are only at 22% of daylight! with this you can grow leafy vegtables, lettuce, spinache etc african violets kick butt unter this... metal halide (now we're talkin') 125 lumens per watt I always use 1000 watt fixtures, 400 watt ones are ok, but why waste your money when the 1000 watt fixture is only 40 dollars more 1000 watts * 125 = 125000 lumens assume 75% eff again 125000 * .75 = 93750 lumens cover a 4' x 4' grow area.... 93750 / 16 sq ft = 5859 foot candles. now we have a little better than 50% of daylight to work with. So if you are serious about indoor hydro, you have to be serious about lighting and lay down the bucks for the metal halide fixture. In the long run they are cheaper too , because they are more energy effecient and the bulbs last a lot longer. I have found Hydrofarm lights to be the chapest way to go. They are acturally cheaper than trying to get commercial warehouse fixtures too, (been there, done that). Cary Chleborad Sacramento Valley Astronomical Society ------------------------- Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 23:32:03 -0400 (EDT) From: SherHoudin@aol.com Subject: ? Looking for ideas of a ground cover which would hold a 35 degree slope and yet not be invasive to the extent that it would surround fruit trees and smother them. Best would be a ground cover that also produced edible fruit or vegetable. Thanks, Joel Moskowitz ---------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 19:45:12 -0700 From: Victor Biver Subject: papaya Hello, I'm Vic in Miami. While perhaps not a rare fruit, perhaps someone could tell me the technique of protecting growing papayas from insects. Is there some method of wrapping them in plastic (?). Many thanks. Also, I have some seeds that I can no longer identify. Anyone willing to look at them? Victor ------------------------- From: "Bruce & Marcia Ross-Adams" Subject: Subject of Rare Fruit Date: Fri, 5 Sep 1997 08:55:05 +0800 Hi, Leo & others, I live in Perth, Western Australia, about 3 kms from the beach. I am originally from South Africa, so have taken to growing Fruit trees that I grew up with, even though most of the soil here is limestone! I am very keen to join your group and talk about what works and what doesn't. I don't have a big garden, but I do have the following in the ground: Lychee - seems to be slow growing and struggles with the salty wind Avocado - three varieties that are beginning to take off Feijoa - doing okay but the fruit have not been very big Guava (my favorites) - Cherry guava (although we used to call it 'chinese guava' in Africa) it's growing quite well - Indian Pink which is great tasting guava, very similar to the taste of tinned guavas (ex Africa) - White Guava (white flesh that is) not sure what variety Mango - Kensington Pride, early stages PawPaw (or papaya)- Pink insides - had two but one didn't survivethe last salty winter. I am not sure whether I can hand pollinate these things Orange valencia, but grown from pip Grenadilla (or passionfruit) Two varieties Cherry (wild, or Brazilian as a friend calls it) I grew up eating these as a kid. They go a blood red almost black when fully ripe and have ridges on them. Plant is still small but I can wait. Natal Plum or "amatingulu" (which is the Zulu word for it). Very thorny, tough and make great hedges - nothing will go through it! Fruit is tart with white sap, goes dark red when fully ripe. Ilove them, but definitely an acquired taste. Murtle Berry, or Lilly Pilly as they call them down here, grows very quickly "Deadly Night Shade" or what I call a "ma'sobe'sobe bush" It is supposedly a 'weed' down here that also grew in Africa which has small black berries which a very nice, and no they have not killed me yet! Cape Gooseberry - which does grow like a weed but the fruit are terrific, and if I can stop myself from eating them all, they would probably make great jam. Anyway that's a bit of an overview, and I look forward to hearing more from you. Cheers Bruce & Marcia --------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 20:05:49 +1000 From: John Lambert Dear Leo, Thanks for the email. Yes I would be happy to be included on the mailing list for your newsletter. I live near Byron Bay - the most easterly point of Australia. According to Jose it is a very similar climate to southern California - except 6 months shifted. I do have a question that you or your readers may be able to help with :- I have an Elephant Apple Tree - Dillenia indica - (also known as Simpoh or Wormia) with heaps of large green fruit - but no idea with what to do with them? The sepals are large and fleshy and rather sour - I have heard that they are used in India to flavour curries? Regards, John Lambert Australia ----- Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 12:48:23 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Elephant Apple Tree - Dillenia indica-Fruit Use? John, Your question on Elephant Apples was forwarded to me by Leo Manuel to answer. The fruits are described as aromatic, juicy, acid and are usually used in curries, preserves, drinks or fermented into vinegar. The fleshy calyx has an agraeeable acid taste and is eaten raw or cooked, put in curries or made into jellies, drinks and sherbets. I hope some of this helps. Don Gholston ----------------------------- Reply-To: sainaron@samart.co.th To: Leo Manuel Subject: Request for previous editions of Rare Fruit News Online Can you send me previous editions of RFNO? I have been asked by the editor of one of the most popular horticulture magazine in Thailand to write articles on the benefits of the Internet for the local orchard growers. I have decided to write about the RFNO and the CRFG, amongst other things. I am hoping that the articles may stimulate people into creating similar organizations and discussion groups for the Thai orchard cultivators. My wish may be just that, wishful thinking, as electricity and telephone lines have not yet reached all farmers, let alone computers, Internet, and the knowledge to use them. Nevertheless, I think it is important to get people thinking. I am also asking your permission to use letters posted in your RFNOs in my articles. I assure you that they will used to the benefits of the orchard growers of Thailand. If anyone has any ideas on this, I would greatly appreciate it. sainaron ---------------------------- Subject: New Reader from Ecuador From: "Rita A. Padilla" Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 11:31:36 -0500 Hi, my name is Rita Padilla and I live in Ecuador. My boy friend (Manuel Ruiz) owns an hacienda in the central part of the country and we are interested in growing kiwi in greenhouses since the weather where the hacienda is located might be a little to cold to grow this plant without the protection of the greenhouses. We are just getting interested in this project and have very little information on how to go about it, we will appreciate whatever information you can provide. Thanks, Rita -------------- NOTE: I've misplaced the response Don Gholston gave to Rita, but he suggested that Kiwi is probably not a good candidate for greenhouse growing, that it could be tested outside the greenhouse. Sorry, Don, if I've mangled your recommendations. Leo -------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 8:16:18 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Rarefruit News letter Hello, I recently enjoyed your web page and I am interested in your electronic news letter. In my Point Loma (San Diego) back yard I grow several varieties of banana, tropical guava, several varieties of papaya including babaco, cherimoya, mango, feijoa, jaboticaba, pepino dulce, and kiwi. I also enjoy many of the more common edible plants grown in S. Cal such as: several varieties of oranges, kumquat, tangerine, lemons, lime, apples, apricot, plum, grapes, figs, avocado, and blueberry. I look forward to receiving your news letter. Geoff Buckner -------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Sep 97 13:37:53 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: re: Welcome, Rare Fruit News Online Leo, Thank you for the welcome to the RFNO. The following paragraphs are some answers to your questions. I am currently growing a Carrie mango in the ground. No fruit yet on this specimen because it is still young. I have had fruiting success, in the past, with the Carrie cultivar (as a container plant) near the coast. Thank you for your coastal mango suggestions. I have been toying with giving Early Gold a try. I am currently growing Sharpblue and Georgia Gem Blueberries in the ground. Due to the acidity issue, I started them out in pots but transferred them to the ground because of the high maintenance necessary with container gardening. I mulch them with peat and pine needles and occasionally throw out a handful of ironite. The Sharpblue is especially vigorous and productive. Due to the sandy (well drained) nature of the Linda Vista Formation which is exposed on Point Loma, I have been successful with growing tasty Dwf. Thai, Solo, and Babaco Papaya without a winter rot problem. With diligent hand pollination, the cherimoya is very productive and very enjoyable. Passaflora is on my to get list. Do you have a recommendation for a good eat-out-of-hand cultivar that will excel near the coast? Regards, Geoff ------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passiflora for coast Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 08:18:19 -0700 Hi Leo, Regarding the letter you got from Geoff Buckner, I would also recommend P. 'Frederick' for the coast if it can be planted with a south exposure. Otherwise the fruit won't color up or sweeten up like they should. If nematodes are not a problem, which they can be in sandy soil near the coast, then I would also try P. ligularis. This species will need a cross pollinator, so I would plant two plants from different sources. These would be the best choices for fruit on the coast at this time. Patrick Worley is developing another cool grower that he says has a good taste, but it won't be released for a while yet. Take care, Bob ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Sep 97 8:23:09 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" I received the last issue of RFNO and enjoyed the running dialog. I would say the Sharpblue flavor also is blueberry-like with nice tart/sweet balance. I keep it pruned to approximately 3 ft. I will let you know if I find an Early Gold. Geoff -------------------------------- Subject: New Reader from India & Passion Fruit Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 06:20:52 +0530 From: Avinash Joshi Dear Sir, I have passion for passion fruits and since last 3 years I have worked on Passiflora Edulisa, yellow variety. I have succeeded for 2 years to have nearly 200 fruits per vine and in a short span of 5000 sq ft, I had 35,000 fruits. I came across CRFG and is member since last 6 months. I have interest in varieties of Passion fruit, Grape fruit, Kiwi, Persimon. Avinash Joshi ----------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Passion fruit Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:57:14 -0700 Hello Avinash, Leo Manuel forwarded to me your email expressing an interest in passion fruit. Probably the best source of new species and varieties is the Passiflora Society International. They are headquartered in Florida and have a foreign seed bank co-ordinator in The Netherlands. You have to be a member in order to take advantage of the seedbank, so you should contact the membership chairman: Anna Zinno Passiflora Society Int. c/o Butterfly World at Tradewinds Park 3600 W. Sample Road Coconut Creek, FL 33073 U.S.A. The seed bank manager is Cor Laurens and his address is: 4471 BJ Wolphaarstdijk Netherlands Telephone: (31) 113-582052 Good luck in your search, it sound like you have a good place to grow passifloras, considering the yields you got with the P. edulis f. flavocarpa. Best wishes, Bob Holzinger ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 06:34:53 +0530 From: Avinash Joshi Dear Bob I appreciate the information. I will write them today itself. My yields are higher , but I want to confirm it by planting more vines and taking their average. I hope to do so by next year. I would plant about 2000 vines propogated from seeds and plant it in my friends farm. My farm has water scarecities and more vines are not feasible. In fact I have planned only one crop during monsoon when water is plenty. My friend's farm which is about 600 kms from my place has perennial supply of water. Any comments from others regarding more crops. Avinash JoshiHolzinger ------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:58:38 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Stumbled on some banana stuff The following info on Basjoo echos what I have heard elswhere: tastes good, annoying seeds. I thought the other varieties mentioned sound interesting as well. Darryl C "... similar to the apple banana but with seeds ... 3 inches long by 1 inch wide, 12-24 bananas to a hand and 4 to 5 hands per stalk. ... Flowers and fruit come in the 3rd or 4th year [in Vancover, BC]." -Mattei "... fruit to 2 3/4 inches long, 3/4 - 1 1/8 inches wide, greenish-yellow with white pulp. Ryukyu Islands. Cultivated for fiber and in southern Japan as a prized ornamental. ... Perhaps the hardiest of the species. Zone 9, and perhaps in sheltered sites in Zone 8." -Hortus 3rd Some other interesting bananas listed in Cornucopia: Oriana: Red-skinned fruit, 5 inches long; very sweet white flesh, seeded. Only grows 2 1/2 to 5 feet tall. Discovered growing in a very dense jungle under low light conditions. Ideal for indoor culture. E31M Ty Ty Gold: Found growing at an old southern plantation house fifty years ago. Produces fruit about every other year. Tasty, yellow fruit; ripens around Thanksgiving. M31M, M31M{PR} Orinoco Victoria: Very cold-hardy; easily survived the winter of 1983 in the southern United States. Produces medium-sized bunches of large thick-skinned fruit of good flavor. Can be eaten fresh or cooked. The trunk is thick and strong; reaching 14 to 16 feet. Rapid growing. E31M Rajapuri: A vigorous dessert cultivar from India which withstands wind, cold, and adverse conditions. Produces small to medium bunches of sweet, fine flavored fruit. Mature height 8 to 10 feet. One of the favorite bananas of India. A79M, E31M, G77M, I83M, J81G, N84. Sources: E31M is Garden World in Laredo, TX, (512) 724-3951. Unfortunately I don't think they sell bananas anymore [Cornucopia is going out of date.]. Another source was Banana Tree and I don't think they are selling bananas either. Pacific Tree Farms in Chula Vista, CA, (619) 422-2400 has some. M31M is Ty Ty South Orchards in Ty Ty, GA, (912) 386-1919. A note on Southeast US versus Pacific Northwest US: The climates are very different and a banana good in one is unlikely to be good in the other. The SE US is tropical with occasional blasts of cold Canadian air in winter. The Pacific Northwest has a mild climate year round, but almost always cool, some years there are no summers. This climate also extends into some regions of California. Bananas (with the exception of Musa basjoo) don't like cool (<50oF) and tend to rot under such conditions whereas they will tolerate some hot and some cold or some wet and some dry (going dormant during unfavorable conditions). And of course they grow quite well in California from SF on down and in Florida and Hawai'i, Puerto Rico, etc. The only commercial US banana farm in the 48 states is in Santa Barbara, CA. But they can be grown well to the north, like cannas, digging the corms for the winter (they can't tolerate ground freezing). --------------------------------------------------------- NOTE: Anyone try growing blueberries without acid soil? This internet letter says acidity isn't the primary problem. I'd like your reaction. Leo Date: Sun, 28 Jul 1996 17:16:48 +0000 Subject: blueberries w/o acid soil? What blueberries really need is mycorrhizae. You can now get these beneficial fungi from Don Chapman, 1-800-604-0444 They have shallow roots and depend on these valuable fungi to supply their mineral needs. It isn't that the pH matters, no matter how many people claim this. What is important is that the soil be adequate. These plants may not be able to pick up the minerals they need, so you should provide them with the chelated minerals from seaweed (Maxciop). They need calcium, for the sake of that mineral, and that is nothing to do with pH. Arden Andersen makes a strong point about the need for phosphorus, because the nutrients the root takes in should be attached to phosphate, to be assimilated. B. Rateaver ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 06:00:01 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Picked Up On The Internet Subject: SoilGard-Alternative to Soil Fumigation? http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/np/mba/jan96/lumsden.htm SoilGardTM R.D. Lumsden, Research Leader, Supervisory Plant Pathologist, J.A. Lewis, Research Soil Scientist, and D.R. Fravel, Research Plant Pathologist, Biocontrol of Plant Diseases Laboratory; and J.C. Locke, Florist and Nursery Crops Research Unit, USDA, ARS, Beltsville, MD 20705. Scientists at the USDA, ARS, Beltsville Agricultural Research Center have responded to the need to identify and develop alternative strategies for soil fumigation, which has been done traditionally with methyl bromide, by directing several research programs to address this critical problem. A total of six permanent scientists (SY's), along with their support personnel, are currently involved in this effort. These SY's represent several disciplines: plant pathology, soil science, microbiology and nematology, providing a range of expertise related to the control of soilborne plant pathogens. Soilborne diseases caused by pathogens such as Pythium and Rhizoctonia are constant problems in the horticultural industry and require the use of chemical fungicides, including methyl bromide. For decades, researchers and growers throughout the world have noted that while some soils tend to encourage soilborne diseases, other soils tend to suppress these same diseases. Years of research have indicated that beneficial soil microorganisms such as Gliocladium virens are responsible for this disease suppression. Yet, until now, problems with formulation inconsistency and application have prevented the commercial application of many biological organisms to control plant pathogens. SoilGardTM is a technological breakthrough and captures the pathogen suppressiveness of the fungus Gliocladium virens GL-21 in a convenient, stable and highly effective form. Developed in collaboration with Grace Biopesticides and the Biocontrol of Plant Diseases Laboratory of USDA, ARS in Beltsville, Maryland, SoilGardTM is an entirely natural product consisting of spores of the fungal strain GL-21 in a granular formulation. SoilGardTM is registered with the U.S. EPA for control of damping-off and root rot pathogens of ornamental and food crop plants growing in greenhouses, nurseries and interior gardens. The label will be expanded for use in the field. Although SoilGardTM was first found to have activity against damping-off caused by Rhizoctonia solani and Pythium species, it has recently been found to protect row crops from Sclerotium rolfsii and possibly other host-pathogen combinations. When incorporated into potting media, SoilGardTM controls plant pathogens through a variety of mechanisms including parasitism, antibiosis, competition and exclusion. Gliocladium virens is known to parasitize some soil pathogens such as R. solani. The Gliocladium will actually wrap itself around the pathogen and release enzymes that destroy the pathogen's cuticle, leaving the pathogens susceptible to attack. GL-21 also produces a broad spectrum antibiotic called gliotoxin which kills many soil pathogens. Gliotoxin is not found in the SoilGardTM formulations, but when the spores of GL-21 begin to grow in the soil, GL-21 produces the antibiotic. SoilGardTM represents the new generation of environmentally friendly pesticides. SoilGardTM has a "Caution" label, but the product has essentially no mammalian toxicity. It is exempt from tolerance for use on all food crops. SoilGardTM has the minimum re-entry interval allowed by the U.S. EPA and has a "zero day" preharvest interval. The team at Beltsville is carrying out studies to expand the use of SoilGardTM to determine its effectiveness in integrated pest management (IPM) and sustainable systems for replacement of methyl bromide. If successful, this product may be used immediately in applications where methyl bromide has been used routinely for control of soilborne disease problems. The team has identified several additional beneficial microorganisms for control of soilborne plant pathogens. Some of these microorganisms have been recently discovered, while others are near transfer to industry for development as commercial products. ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Sep 1997 05:23:23 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Richard Buchanan Subject: Trilogy Fungicide/insecticice/miticide Richard Buchanan wrote: > > Where can I purchase neem insect repellent? > > Thanks. Richard, I don't know. I know Trilogy is one brand name manufactured by Grace Biopesticides, 7500 Grace Dr. Columbia, MD 21044-4098. A friend gave me about a half-gallon in a 5 gallon container. I expect you can find sources on the internet, but it would be cheaper to find it at a local agricultural supply place. Leo ---------------------------------- From: "Bob Cannon,II" Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 21:08:59 PDT Leo, I live in Englewood, Florida, USA. I grow a lot of odd things, with special interests in Artocarpus, Passiflora and little known edibles. I also have ferns and peperomias in my collection. Have you been to rare fruit home page at its new location? www.gate.net/~tfnews Best of growing, Bob --------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 00:45:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Darryl Clark Subject: Banana Virus Danger Trading Banana Trees - Caution! Clarence, I was afraid this would be the answer. Kind of dampens the incentive to trade. Don't want to give it to someone else and certainly don't want to recieve it. Hmmm, maybe good idea to cut out the promiscuous horticulture. DC > Lessard's book has a section on banana viruses. I loaned my copy to a > freind, so I cannot respond except from recollection; however, there are > at least four races of "Panama disease", a virus that attacks bananas. > This is supposed to be the reason that the old variety "Bluefields", > once sold commercially, has now been replaced with other varieties > (Bluefields was/is susceptible to the virus). I also know for sure that > a Panama virus was spreading through South Florida in the recent past, > affecting "Apple" (Manzano) and "Ice Cream" (Blue Java) bananas, but not > some of the others. **Beware** when you obtain corms from unknown > sources. Once the virus is in your yard, you'll have to destroy the > affected banana trees. > > Clarence Hester ----------------------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Bananas Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:08:25 -0700 Hi Leo, I asked Doug about the Oriana banana and he doesn't know that much about it either. It also sounded like he didn't think it was that interesting to check out, either. It could be something for people in northern areas to grow, but as long as I can grow the different varieties that I have outdoors, I'm happy. In fact, my list of bananas with fruit on them right now includes: Monthan, Praying Hands, Colorado Blanco, Haa Haa, Goldfinger, Dwarf Brazilian, Dwarf Colorado Blanco, Red Iholena, and Ice Cream. So you can see why I'm feeling pretty good. I'm currently eating Ice Cream from a bunch I cut down on Monday. Talk to you later, Bob ------------------------------------------------ From: "Bruce & Marcia Ross-Adams" Subject: Clarification of Fruit I Have Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 08:54:32 +0800 Hi, Thanks, and thanks for the help. The Cherry guava I think is actually called a 'strawberry' guava. The fruit are smaller than the other guavas (a large one is about half the size of other guavas), white flesh, but the skin is very thin and goes blood red when ripe. The foliage is small dark green leaves that have a reddish colour when new. Tree tends to be up to 2 metres high by 1 metre wide. It's tough and quite hardy. I will send a photo of this one and the 'myrtle berry' soon. Regards Bruce Leo said: > I have a few questions. What is the Cherry guava? Is it a tropical > guava type, similar to the Indian Pink and White in foliage? > What's the fruit of the Murtle Berry like? > > I'd guess the Brazilian cherry is what we call Pitanga, Surinam Cherry, > or Eugenia Uniflora? > > Leo -------------------------------- Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 16:48:32 -2050 From: Bob Cannon Subject: Botswana Melon - Latin Name and Uses Leo, For members at large; While in California two years back I obtained seed of a plant called "Botswana Melon" Green, round, bigger than a bowling ball. Pale yellowish flesh. Not bitter but not sweet. Anyone know the latin on this? What is it used for? I've ripened two and have some seed to share. Enjoyed the comments on neem. Mine is recovering well after being killed to the ground by frost last Feb. Best of growing Bob Cannon -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:39:18 -0700 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Re: May, June, and July of RFNO Hello Leo: I've only recieved the May-July back issues of the newsletter. Are earlier issues available? If so I would greatly appreciate the chance to read them. Thanks, DC PS: My one starfruit seedling is doing fine so-far. Its a delicate plant with light sensitive leaves that fold down in the dark. Way kool! DC >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - September 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News 10/01/97 19 This issue is long, (about 70k!) but contains an enormous amount of information. For many of you, it's far more than you will ever need to know about certain topics, such as "Problems getting longans and litchees to flower and bear in tropical climates." Some will find the articles of interest, so I decided to include them. I've placed the detailed discussion of problems getting longans and litchees to bloom and bear at the end of the issue. I ordered the topics in order of probably decreasing interest, for most of you. I am just now trying to deal with a rat problem. I'm sure anyone who has fruit will have attracted mice and rats, whether they are aware of it or not. What have you found successful reducing their numbers? Guns in the city are out of the question. Mangoes have just started to ripen in the last few days. I've had some from Winter (FLA #20222), Glenn, and various seedlings. I don't think Glenn is as tasty as most others I have. It doesn't have the mix of flavors I personally prefer. Has a slight taste of pumpkin flavor among the otherwise very good flavor. Yet, I know people who rate it as excellent. Also, the guavas, mostly white, are ripening, and pitangas, as well. The Vermillion variety of pitanga is very nice. Large, red-when-ripe, sweet, and relatively free of the metallic bite many have. Guavas, mostly white ones are ripening. They usually have a more mild aroma than the pink-fleshed ones. I'm going to Los Angeles, October 4, for the CRFG Annual Meeting. I hope to see those of you who are there. Horticordially, Leo ---------General Order Of Topics in this Newsletter------------- New Subscribers With Questions. Can You Help? General Mail Responses to Leo's query for growing Neem from seed. Exporting Neem Emulsion To You Detailed discussion of problems getting Longans and Litchees to bloom ---------------------------- New Subscribers With Questions. Can You Help? ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 23:11:33 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: New Subscriber in Hollywood, FL - Growing "Everything!" Thanks for getting back to me Leo: I live in Hollywood, FL about 1/2 mile in from the ocean. I am growing (forgive the spelling): brazos blackberries, pineapple, sugar apple (cv Kampong Mauve), australian beach cherry (eugenia reinwardt...), blackberry jam fruit, atemoya (cv 28 -10 developed by Zill), wampi, pommelo, orange, tangerine, key lime, meyer's lemmon, persian lime, rough lemmon, carambola (cv Arkin?), several bananas (Raja Puri, Orinoco, Brazilian, Goldfinger, Mysore, Kru, Dwarf Puerto Rican), mango (cv Keitt with grafts of Hayden, Carabao, Okrung, Dotson, '76, and some others I can't recall), muscadine grapes, Jaboticaba, strawberry guava, bunschia, miracle fruit, loquat (cv Premire and Big Jim), misc hot peppers, lychee, montingia aka strawberry tree, purple mombin, passion fruit (cv Joyner Everbearing and Quadrangularous), grumichama, cherry of the rio grande, pitanga, black mulberry, fig (cv Magnolia and Green Ishue), chaya, stevia and malabar spinach. I am interested in exchanging information about: a) any desirable tropical or sub-tropical fruit, exotic vegatables or herbs("Edibles") that might do well in So. Florida's climate and soils; b) Edibles that do well in parts of Australia (many Australian plants thrive in So. Florida, like Malaluca, Casurina, macadamian nuts etc.); c) the affect of mycchorizal fungi on the growth and fruiting of Edibles; d) winemaking with tropical fruit; e)what other enthusiasts are growing in similar climates worldwide; and f) anything else remotely related. I am very pleased to discover Rare Fruit News Online. Thank you for making it available. Russell Kaplan, Hollywood, Florida, Zone 10 --------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:08:12 -0700 From: "Francis A. Calasanz" Subject: New Subscriber in La Puents, CA I am glad to see your home page which happens to be a link to the CA Rare Fruit Growers page (http://crfg.org). I live in La Puente, CA and grow a few "rare" tree. I have what I think is Philippine mango (you know it once you taste it). I got this from a nearby Armstrong Garden store. This particular tree stayed on a 5 gallon pot for 4 years and I finally planted it on the ground 2 years ago. It finally bore fruit this summer. This is a dream come true for me. I shared most of the first fruits with my family and friends. I am very tempted to publish the picture of this 10 ft mango tree with a caption - "Yes! It can be grown in LA!". My 10 other Mexican variety mango tree are still in their 5 gal pots. I also have a couple of "Atis", this fruit tree is common in the Philippines but I do not know its scientific or English name. Lastly, my other prized possesion is a Thai guava - the one that bears BIG guava with very few seeds. This year it really produced hundreds of smaller guava that one branch split in half. I had to support it with a 2x4 just to hold it up till they ripen. That is all I have to share. I will wait for your newsletter. Hope to hear from you guys or see you at the CRFG Festival of Fruit at the Arboretum on Oct 4. Francis A. Calasanz Leo's Note: Francis, Atis is known as Atemoya in the U.S. I'm going to be at the CRFG Festival of Fruit on October 4. If you have seed to spare/share, I'd be interested in trying to grow them. Leo ----------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 18:28:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Marsha Jackson:MSJ1819@aol.com Subject: New Subscriber in Maryland and Puerto Rico! I'd love to be on your mailing list. My husband John Dockstader and I live in Maryland and just acquired a small (5 acre) plantain farm in Puerto Rico. We're also interested in paw paws and other fruit for our Maryland 4 acres. We've been farming vegetables for a long time but no fruit other than a couple of pears, apples, berries, etc. Looking forward to receiving your information!!! Marsha Jackson ------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 09:23:14 -0700 From: Kevin Subject: New Subscriber in Louisiana Wants Black Sapote Hi Leo, I applied for your news letter, my actual name is Kevin Chedville. I live 40 miles southeast of New Orleans, Louisiana and i have been trying to grow Papaya for the last three years. With NO luck. The winter usually gets them before I can save them, I was lucky this year 2 came back from the roots. I am really interesed in trying to grow Black Sapote and would like to know where i can purchase a couple plants, and more information on growing them. I have lots of banana plants, 3 varieties, and the oldest produce banana's every year. The other 2 I have just for ornamental. Also 4 Kiwi vines that are doing terrific also, but no fruit as of yet. My wife is into growing flowering plants, I like tropical fruit plants. As of now, I don't have much yard, my lot is 75 x 150 feet with a 1400 sf house in the middle. I have a Japanese Plum that is doing very well, is less than two years old, of which they are plentiful down this way. Wife planted an Apple tree and is doing fine also. I have planted 4 hardy kiwi vines and they surived last winter and the are doiing well also, but i still need to build a trelis for them to grow some more on, they are growing all over each other right now. I am really interesed in trying to grow the Diospyros Digyne (Black Sapote).... If any of your readers are growing them, I would like to acquire a plant or two in some way. Thanks, Kevin Chedville --------------------------------- General Mail From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: RE: Bananas Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:51:03 -0700 Leo, I do like Monthan, but I haven't tasted enough ripe bananas to say just how good it is. I have not tasted Praying Hands, but mine is flowering so I hopefully will know by next spring how good it is. The Kru I have only seen in Florida (and obviously at your place, even though I didn't know it). I have always liked the red bananas and still consider them my favorites, I guess. Bananas do flower and fruit when they want to, so if you can figure out a way to get them to flower only in the spring, you could patent it and make some money. I went to a mango tasting at Tim Thompson's last night and learned some things that need to be spread around. Tim suggests planting monoembryonic seeds for rootstocks and for the fruit because they are Indian in origin and should have most of the undesirable traits bred out, so the seedlings will be mostly good. Also, he uses the Terpentine as a rootstock also, but not as seedlings, rather as rooted cuttings. He found out that Terpentine cuttings will root easily and produce strong root systems. This way you can have rootstocks ready when you want them, not when seeds are available for planting. Take it easy, Bob ----------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:04:34 -0700 (PDT) From: libby@igc.apc.org (Libby J. Goldstein) Subject: Mites on Citron trees Martin, You should probably expect another mite infestation on your citrons as soon as you turn the heat on. Mites love dry warm weather, and when the heat goes on, the relative humidity in a house or apartment go as low as 5-10%. I'd put the containers on fairly large pebble trays and group them close together to keep the humidity up. You might want to try a humidifier. It will be good for the plants and also for your furniture and your health. If the pots aren't too huge, you could try putting them in the shower every couple of weeks. It will wash off the mites and save some watering as well. Hope this helps. Maybe other people have better info, I've noticed that ome of my citrus trees also bear stigma-less flowers for a while, but that later flowers are complete. The flowers should be pollinated by various insects while they're outside, but if you do get complete flowers, you can pollinate them yourself. I just stick my finger into a pollen bearing flower and stick the pollen onto a sticky style. If it's not sticky, it isn't ready to be pollinated. Libby Philadelphia USDA zone 7A Sunset zone 32 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 17:17:36 -0400 From: Bill Lady Subject: Planting kiwi in Ecuador Dear Rita: My wife saved some seed from kiwi fruit bought in a store in the U.S. She did this by macerating the fruit and then letting it ferment, the same way you do to save tomato seeds. She planted the seed at Valle de Angeles, Honduras, at an elevation of 5,000 feet above sea level, where it gets quite cold, and the plants are doing fine in that climate. I don't think you will have any trouble in Ecuador. The plants grow very large, and bear heavily. You will have to install very strong supports (trellises) for the vines and fruit, because of the weight. My wife gave plants from the original seed to friends in Honduras, and they are now raising kiwi at several other elevations above 2,500 feet. It might not do well at low elevations in the tropics. Good luck, Bill Lady ------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 97 17:15:30 -0700 From: lorraine brunner Subject: Longans and Lychee Hi Leo, Wonderful news! My Longan tree had a fruitful crop and now I have 500 little trees growing in my nursery. They have all taken to their new home extremely well. I also have air layered my Lychee tree with great care and pray for success there. I believe the Longans will be ready-for-sale in about 6 months, if anyone needs a crop. I have a friend who has a Lychee tree crop. I can get help from him anytime, he is very experienced with these plants, if the couple from Australia would like to contact me with questions, please let them know. I will also try to contact them. I also got great help from someone through Rarefruit and I really appreciate your newsletter. Keep up the good work. I am sure it is a great deal of work and your doing a super job. Sunshine to you, Lory p.s. I have a new E-mail address please note. --------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 17:36:59 -0400 From: moshe Subject: Re: Terpentine cuttings as rootstock? Leo Manuel wrote: Moshe, Bob Holzinger Subject: paw paw I have a paw paw tree in my yard which is really producing a large crop of paw paws this year. My problem is that I can't find any recipes for paw paws. Does anyone know of any you could forward to me. Thanks, Jay ---------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 20:43:58, -0500 Subject: JLHUDSON contact info? From: Diane Hi Leo! I guess I just didn't have anything to say for a while! I'm still here and still growing things. JLHudson is a great company, but they are NOT on line, nor do they have a phone #. Send $1 for their excellent, almost non illustrated, encyclopedic catalog. You must be a serious seedaholic with an interest in odd items, lots of them, to enjoy this catalog. When the new one comes I spend days poring over the entries. My family doesn't understand the addiction at all. Catalog requests (and the dollar) can be sent to PO Box 1058, Redwood City, CA, 94064. Everything is listed under its Latin name. The prices are extremely reasonable, typically $1.25 per packet with some rarer seeds going up to a few dollars per packet. I have been ordering from them for years, and now I even write them with occasional results, and recently sent them some seeds for offering in the catalog! Diane ------------------------------ From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Bananas Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:24:49 -0700 To: Matthew Hello Matthew, I just harvested a bunch of Ice Cream bananas that flowered in September 1996, so I would say that you have to wait until at least next spring to taste your bananas. I let my bunch sit on the tree until the first banana turned yellow, possibly it would go faster if you cut the bunch when they are mature in size and hold the bunch in a cool area. I've always left my bananas on the tree until the first one colors up. The mystery fruit you ate on the ice cream was probably Physalis peruvianus, the Cape Gooseberry. It's a Solanum and is easy to grow, just find someone how has seeds and you're in business. Take care, Bob Holzinger ------------------------ From: "John Sojka" Subject: In search of CASANA, LUCMO, GREeN SAPOTE & ASIMINA TRILOBA Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 12:41:47 +0800 Hi there from Western Australia, I am back from my holidays now and I thank you for sending me the latest newsletters.When you come to doing the next newsletter I would very much appreciate you including these requests and questions if possible. I am still trying to get a small quantity of seeds of the following rare fruit trees namely CASANA, LUCMO, GREeN SAPOTE & ASIMINA TRILOBA. If anyone can send me some I will cover expenses, I look forward to getting Email from anyone who can help. I am also keen to hear from someone who has an idea how to graft or bud White Sapotes.I have a number of seedlings and three grafted ones that can be used for wood and cuttings. Once again thank you for the work you do and I thoroughly enjoy reading the information. If there are any old newsletters available I would like to recieve some when it is convenient. Regards and best wishes from downunder. John Sojka. Note: John, have you received what you want, yet? Leo ---------- From: "John Sojka" Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 17:29:12 +0800 Subject: Black Sapote From Seed Hi leo, Regarding Dick Gross I have grown many Black Sapotes from seed and they are very easy to germinate and grow.I just clean the seed and put it in a sealed plastic bag in moist paper toweling or vermiculite. Regards John Sojka. ---------------------------- From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Wanted: Australian and Israeli web-sites on tropical fruits If anybody knows of any Australian web-sites on tropical fruits - they may be web-sites of magazines, research institutions, association of fruit growers, etc. - I would very much appreciate hearing about them. The reason for my interest is this - in Thailand, we have great respect for the Australian technology on tropical fruits. We feel we have a lot to learn from them. It is many Thai fruit growers' dream to make a horticultural visit to Australia, particularly Queensland. I am also very much interested in Israeli web-sites on the same topic. We Thais also have great respect for the Israelites. Sainarong Rasananda ---------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:16:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway: Permacltur@aol.com Subject: Growing Feijoa from Seed I have tried twice, with two different seed batches from different sources, to grow feijoa from seed. I'm a pretty good horticulturist and usually succeed. It seems possible but unlikely that both batches of seed were bad. More likely, I'm missing some important condition or step. I'd like to get quite a few seedlings going so that I can get some scion wood and have some nice feijoa varieties here. If anyone can suggest a proven way to germinate the seed, please let me know. Also, I'm in the market for a batch of fresh seed from a new source. Dan Hemenway ----------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 19:33:54 -0700 To: BillLady Subject: "Raspa" - Interesting!!! Bill, I don't remember whether I commented on your paragraph, but I found that very interesting. There must be lots of fascinating facts about plants floating around, if one just knew how to tap into them. Thanks for passing it on! Sincerely, Leo ------------------------------------------ From: "John Sojka" Subject: Re: Australian web-sites on tropical fruits - Where? Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:49:17 +0800 Dear Leo, Here are two sites, http://www.dpi.qld.gov.au/dpinotes/hortic/tropfruit.htm#Tropical and subtropical Fruits Notes and http://www.aoi.com.au/atcros/YF.htm If I see any others I will Email You. Also look up The W.A.Treecrop association, I dont know the site off hand. Regards John sojka. ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 22:10:54 -0400 From: Ricky Maseda Subject: Bay Rum Greetings to all Rare Fruit people reading this. I picked up a Bay Rum tree at the Sarasota Fruit & Nut sale last weekend. Its only 7-8 inches in height. Will this Bay tree take forever to grow like my Bay Laurel? That one seems to grow only 1-2 inches a year. The Bay Rum leaves have a wonderful perfume aroma. Back in the 50's the barber put Bay Rum tonic on our hair. What a terrific smell. Guess thats why I bought that little tree. Brings back memories. Best regards, Ricky Maseda AKA Guavaman Tampa, Florida PS - the dealer I bought the tree from is also a mail order outfit if anyone wants their name & number just email me. -------------------------------------- From: "Ed Griffin" To: Sainarong Rasananda: sainaron@samart.co.th Subject: For your reading pleasure - lychee club From G Weidman Groff's classic text - "the Lychee and Lungan" (1921) You might enjoy this. Cheers Brian -------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 10:46:42 -0700 From: Leo Manuel To: "Bill Burson (CA)" Subject: Best "Permanent" Marking Pen? My Test of a Dozen Pens The best pen of the dozen I tried for longevity in sunlight, written on plastic tags, was PILOT Ultra Fine Point Permanent SC-UF. I wrote on white plastic tags and stapled them to a board outside in the elements. There was quite a variation in performance. Leo ---------------------------- From: "Darla Dunigan" Subject: Growing Mangoes Commercially Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 21:34:56 -0700 Hi Leo, We primarily grow mangos but we also grow a number of other tropical and subtropical plants just for fun including: coffee, papayas, macademia nuts, mamay, cherimoya, and plumaria. If you would like to have a list of the mangos in our collection, send me your fax number and I will fax it to you. We have approaching 100 recognized varieties from around the world in addition to the ones we are developing. We have planted about 1,000 seedlings this year as part of our development program here in Camarillo. We are located between L.A. and Santa Barbara, about 10 miles from the ocean. We normally have mild winters with occational freezes. In 1990 it got down to around 26 or 27 degrees twice with some serious crop damage to the local avocados and citrus. We have some mango varieties that withstood that with minimal damage. Tim --------------------------- From: "Darla Dunigan" Subject: Re: Mango newsletter Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 17:06:07 -0700 Hi Leo, We do not have a scanner to scan the list. If you are going to be at the CRFG festival of fruit next weekend, we can give you a copy of our list if we see you there. We are providing fruit samples from about 25 different mango varities for the display table. Darla Dunigan -------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 07:48:16 +0000 To: John Sojka Subject: Durian: Love the taste or hate it! No middle ground.... John Sojka wrote: > Recently I tried Durian for the first time and i assure you > I will not be doing it again!!!!!!.A terrible smell and an overpowering > taste that i would not care to describe. > > Regards from downunder, John Sojka. John, there is no middle ground when it comes to appreciation of the taste of durian. I happen to think it's great, and have eaten half of one in one sitting, with a friend who ate the other half. Probably most people think it's the worst taste in the world. Leo ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:08:54 -0400 From: WMonroe@mailb.harris.com (WMonroe) Subject: Pawpaw Tree (Bark Fights Cancer) Greetings: An article from "Businessweek" dated September 22, 1997. "Purdue researcher Jerry McLaughlin says his group has discovered more than 40 potential anticancer compounds in the bark of the pawpaw - a common North American tree that bears the largest fruit of any native species. In recent laboratory tests, one group of compounds killed off long surviving cancer cells, seemingly by blocking the energy such cells utilize to operate. Purdue has filled for patents on the use of these compounds and is already gearing up for animal tests." Has anybody used the leaves or bark of the pawpaw in a tea? Regards, Bill Monroe wmonroe@harris.com --------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:42:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Shugart Subject: Passion fruit on coast and Valencia Pride mango 1. Passiflora 'Frederick' vs. ligularis. In regard to Bob Holzinger's reply to Geoff Buckner on passifloras for the coast, let me put my two cents in. (Sorry if I've said the same things before, which is likely.) I have P. "Frederick' a.k.a. 'Bountiful Beauty' on a fence running NW-SE where it gets sun most of the day. The location is Carlsbad, CA, about 1.5 mile from the ocean, Sunset zone 23/24. The vine is was planted in April, 1996, and has done wonderfully, covering about 25 feet of the fence and climbing all through a nearby pomegranate bush and some neighbors' trees. I have a real bounty of fruit this year and it is very tasty. The fruit gets to a dark purple color outside and has a nice sweet-tart balance. I also planted a P. ligularis a few months before the 'Frederick.' It has never done well at all, and may actually be smaller in size now than it was the day I bought it. It gets the same water and feeding regimen as the other vine and is gorwing in the same almost pure sand soil. It is located in front of my house, which means a NE exposure. It is in sun most of the day, but some shade by late afternoon. I do not know what its problem is, but I have assumed that it does not like the heat. It always has yellow leaves that no amount of fertilizer seems to correct. It may be dead by now--it has shed its few remaining leaves in recent weeks. 2. 'Valencia Pride' mango. A while back I posted a query about Valencia Pride mango. I tasted my first one on Sept. 27. It was exquisite! No fiber to speak of. Fairly small seed. I would describe the flavor as having hints of coconut and vanilla. Really terrific. The fruit was about 8 inches from end to end, and very plump. The only bad thing was it had started to split, so it did not ripen evenly. Any tips on what I can do to avoid splitting in the future? I still have 6 or 7 more fuit on my two-and-a-half year old tree. Matthew Shugart ---------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 01:22:17 -0700 From: Darryl Clark To: WALT ROWE Subject: Thanks for Starfruit info. Hello Walt: This is Darryl Clark.. I just received my newsletter and thank you very much for the encouragin information. I started one seed (misplaced the others and the supermarket hasn't had starfruit since) and held out long past what I thought was reasonable to wait for germination. Actually I just forgot to go throw out the soil for a few days and when I got around to it why there was a 4 inch seedling of excuisite beauty and fragility. ME HAPPY! May I ask how you've taken care of your seedlings in terms of light, fertilizer, and temperature, etc? You sound very successful at this sort of thing. Also, are you willing to trade some seedlings? I Don't have much yet except for bananas, hardy fruit, and herb seeds. I'll have more once i get the hang of this propagation thing. This hobby sure beats electric trains and baseball cards! Thanks DC ---------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 22:09:58 -0400 From: WALT ROWE Subject: Re: Thanks for Starfruit info. Hello Darryl: Carambola seedlings are somewhat hard to bring through the "infancy" stage. First rule of thumb is NEVER let the soil dry out. This will cause total defoliation and mature trees will shed their fruit. Keep the soil moist but make sure it is well drained as they will die rapidly under flooded conditions. As far as light conditions, everything you read will indicate they should receive full sun, but here on the east coast of Florida, the trees I have in partial shade look much better and fruit better also. The young seedlings are very tender to cold and as a rule, I try to protect them from temperatures below 40 degrees. The cold really slows the growth process so the warmer you keep them in the winter, the faster they will produce fruit. Walt Rowe ----------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 22:42:44 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Neem When I first saw your posting on 'neem', I must admit that I ignored it as being of little interest to me. Then I saw your later posting on 'neem', and a bell rang inside me. So I did a little checking, and my hunch proved right. In Thailand, we have heard of neem for a long time. The local name for it is 'sa-dao'. That is why the name neem did not ring a bell the first time. Although it is the Indian neem which is well-known, there is also a local variety of neem in Thailand. I have never, until now, heard of its healing properties, but I am familiar with its insecticide properties. A lot of research on neem has been done in Thailand, and the government is trying to promote its use, extolling its non-toxicity to humans. Let me quote from one of the papers on neem.....At present, many people are using products obtained from neem as insecticides. However, correct knowledge about neem is lacking among the users, resulting in ineffective uses of neem...........It is important that we need to fully understand the working of the active ingredients of neem in order to make the use of neem as insecticide economically justified. I myself have been very interested in neems as I have been using far far too much insecticide for my own peace of mind. I have been searching for an alternative ways of getting rid of the butterfly larvae, which is both non-toxic, effective and less costly. I have been reading about neem, and have even bought a liter of neem solution. However, I have not used it yet, as it 'seems' to be more costly and less effective than my hated insecticide. So I agree entirely with the above paper. I have visited an orchard where the owner have successfully used neem as insecticide. However, he grow his own neem trees, and does the entire proceesing of neem himself. However, I am not too sure whether his orchard is earning him sufficient income - he does not seem to worry much about profits. If anyone wants to know more about neem, there are a lot of technical papers - in Thai - on neem. I want neem to become a viable alternative to the 'cabaril', and 'monochrotophos' which I currently and unhappily use. Sainarong Rasananda --------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:32:15 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Neem I shall probably be repeating my earlier e-mail quite a lot. I apologize. I am very much interested in using neem or its equivalent as pesticide, but I have been deterred from doing so for many reasons. I do not know enough about neem. It seems rather costly compared to the insecticides I currently use. I have to spray quite frequently. It may not work for my orchard. The effect of neem takes some time, but the outbreak of pests is sudden and widely damaging; I need immediate response. I know that a lot of work on neems has been done in Thailand, but spreading out news has never been our strong point. I grow over 1000 longan trees in Thailand. My orchard is right in the middle of longan country. You can travel for miles and see nothing but longans. My orchard is surrounded by other orchards. We use carbaril and monochrotophos. Sadly, even the birds are killed. I do not see any birds around any more - very sad and unwanted. I sprayed by hand. To use an air-blower would require considerable more investments in the blower and in improving the facilities such as roads etc. I do not have the money at the moment. My orchard does not generate enough income for improvements in the next few years. I wonder if any of you have some advice for me. Sainarong Rasananda --------------------------------- Responses to Leo's query about growing Neem from seed. ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 13:17:37 -2050 From: Bob Console IIcx Subject: Re: Help request, if you have Neem seed experience... Scarify 'em (scratch seed coat), soak 'em (4-6 hours), plant 'em in a clean mix. You could use 4-6" pots. You may also water them in with a mild fungicide. (Most of mine rotted). Best of growing, Bob --------------------------- From: YWTM48B@prodigy.com (DIANE CHAMBERLAIN) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 12:37:03, -0500 Subject: Neem from seed Hi Leo, I have a neem tree that Bob Stone started from seed. They ARE easy to transplant. You can root pieces, too. Perhaps Bob Stone has the best germination methods, but from what I've heard- yes, plant immediately- germination declines rapidly. Diane, in the Tampa Bay area, where we've had over 11 inches of rain in the past 24 hours! -------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT) From: tlong@michele.gcccd.cc.ca.us (Robert Long) Subject: Neem from seed For whatever help it is, I've been growing Neem plants for about a year. They were ordered this time last year from Banana Tree. I initially planted them in nursery six-packs, transplanted to 1 gallon pots, and when large enough (a few months ago) transplanted into 5 gallon containers. The only problem in transplanting (that I found) was the feeder roots stuck to the plastic, especially on the bottom and some were torn loose during transplanting. They were put into the shade for a few days to recuperate but showed absolutly no signs of transplant shock. Germination was excellent but irratic, some coming up as long as a month later. Their best growth seemed to be during July and August in hot direct sun; they hate the winter cold and grew slowly during this period. Hope this is of assistance, Bob Long ----------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:24:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway: Permacltur@aol.com Subject: Re: Help request, if you have Neem seed experience... Neem seeds DO have to be planted immediately. I'd guess that the usual depth requirements of 4x the diameter of the seed will work. Keep moist but NOT WET. NEEM HATES WET. Warmer than room temperature would be best, I suspect. They transplant readily from pots, bare root is also not bad but a bit more chancey. This I do know from experience. The tree is easily propagated--both sexually and vegetatively. But it doesn't give directions. I suspect that if you stick them into pots most will germinate. I've also emailed an inquiry to someone who DOES propagate neem from seed. Once they are going, apparently they root sucker, according to NAS. Good Luck. Dan Hemenway ------------------------ From: "Staples, Ian" Subject: RE: Help request, if you have Neem seed experience... Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 16:40:00 +1000 G'day Leo, Neem seeds are "recalcitrant" -- i.e. they don't store for long, hence that instruction to plant immediately. We have raised them in simple tree seedling tubes quite successfully. Our tubes are about 17 cm deep and 4 cm in diameter. They have small vertical ridges molded into the plastic, and a slight taper to about 2 cm from the bottom at which point they taper sharply to a 12 mm hole. The ridges allegedly reduce root circling, the slight taper makes the seedlings easier to take out for transplanting, and the open bottom is intended to promote air-pruning of the roots to keep things neat for planting out. I've also raised the things successfully in planting bags (those black plastic things) and in conventional plastic pots, and planted these out successfully too. But the tubes are best for convenience and reduced planting effort in the field. Cheers, Ian S. :-) ----------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Subject: Re: Help request, if you have Neem seed experience... Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:51:09 +0800 Dear Leo, I am not sure about Neem trees but I thought I heard they had a long tap root so it is best to plant them where they will stay. Like a carob they can be put in a PVC pipe until the root is to long. If i am wrong on this then im sorry.An expert who is very much into Nheem trees is Charles Peaty BSc at 5 Luth Avenue Daglish Western Australia 6008 Im sorry but i dont know if he has an email when I see him i will ask and let you know.By the way I am still keen to hear from anyone in the world who can send me a small quantity of seeds of the following fruit trees.If possible could you repeat my request in the next rare fruit online. I am looking for seed of; CASANA,GREEN SAPOTE,LUCMO and ASIMINA TRILOBA and I of course will cover postage costs .Those who can assist can email me ,even if they can give me a lead where to look. Recently I tried Durian for the first time and i assure you I will not be doing it again!!!!!!.A terrible smell and an overpowering taste that i would not care to describe.I did however plant Durian and Jackfruit seeds and seeds of the Jaboticaba or brazilian tree grape.If anyone can tell me what to do with the plants I would be interested to know,especially if it is worth growing them from seed/???. Anyway all the best to you and thank you for the work you do and i look forward to the next issue of the newsletter, By the way when does it normally come out? Note: John, it is trying to come out on the first and fifteenth of each month. Leo Regards from downunder, John Sojka. ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 18:50:12 +1000 From: Brian White To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Help request, if you have Neem seed experience... Hi Leo, Neem trees grow well and quickly in a wide range of climates, but they don't particularly like frost. Try a 12" pot, then transplant when they get to about 2'6" tall. Cheers Brian. --------------------------------------- Leo We have just planted a 1000 neem seed. My experience in the past is they germinate readily if conditions are warm. You are coming into Autumn now so don't expect much growth at this time of year. Neems suffer from root rot so make sure your potting mix is well drained. Apparently you can graft neem onto White Cedar to make it more cold hardy and tolerant to root rot. Best of luck Greg -------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:51:12 -0400 (EDT) From: FinulaM@aol.com Subject: Re: Help request, if you have Neem seed experience... I would suggest calling Frank at the Banana tree and asking him. Finula ----------------------------------- Exporting Neem Emulsion To You ------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 16:50:36 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Exporting Neem Emulsion To You #1 Hi Leo, many people have expressed an interest in neem. I would like to let you know that if anyone is interested, I can get neem for them. The oil is standardised and will not solidify at low temperatures. The azadirachtin content of the neem is guaranteed to remain stable for 2 years in the supplied packaging. Owing to the logistics, only orders of 1000 litres or more are possible, with packaging to the buyers requirements, unlabelled. This product is emulsified, and is miscible with water. The product is systemic to the plant, and a frequent spraying during spring will ensure an adequate buildup of neem in the plant to protect it from pests. Concentration used is 200:1 for most pests (1litre neem emulsion to 200l spray). We have mixed it with an Australian fish fertiliser for good effect on plant health and resistance to pests. Effectively, the emulsified neem acts as a wetting agent for a foliar fertiliser, and an antifeedant to insects. Price, FOB Brisbane is AUD20/litre. Samples can be arranged, at buyers cost. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------- Subject: Exporting Neem Emulsion To You #2 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 14:28:21 +1000 From: Brian White Hi Leo Have spoken with my indian friend again, and he wishes to pass on the following: Bottles of neem emulsion can be sent labelled, but we will need to know what your local labelling laws are; Samples of 1 litre are available at buyers cost ($AUD20+freight) 10% azadirachtin powder is available for under AUD400/kg, just what price we are working out now with our Indian suppliers. This quantity is enough to do 10000litres of spray. With neem, spray once every ten days for a month, or until problem ceases. Then it stays in the plant giving a lasting deterrent effect, and totally disrupting the insect's life cycle. Neem is bird-friendly, as it makes insects docile and easy for birds to catch, and will not harm these little farmers friends. Compare that with your organophosphates, guys. Hope this is some help. cheers, Brian. ---------------------------------- Subject: Exporting Neem Emulsion To You #3 Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:06:53 +1000 From: Brian White Leo The product is unlabelled because in Australia, and probably in your country too, there are some hassles with neem, because it is not registered as a pesticide. It is not registered, because no large ag-chem company in Australia has bothered patenting it. How can anyone patent an ag chemical with 10000 years of prior art? Neem is mentioned in the oldest indian religious texts which date back approximately 8000 years, and many uses have been documented since then. So, in Australia, it is sold as a wetting agent for foliar fertilisers, and as a fortifier for natural pyrethroid based insecticides. Hence, we make no claims on our Australian label, simply what it is, directions for use, and quantity in the bottle. This is what we have to do in our country to get over the ag chem registration hurdles. We suggest people interested in neem find out what they need to do with labelling laws in their own country - that's not something we can do effectively from Australia. It is unlabelled, because we don't want the hassle that can go with labelling this product. What we find is that people know a bit about neem, and want to try it. If they want to know more, then there are independent sources they can go to, such as outlined in the attached. AUD20/litre is a cheap price for standardised neem oil emulsion, and is comparable with other pesticides. This is possible because the neem comes from large scale cottage industry in India. Exchage rate is USD0.72/AUD1. This means roughly USD14.40/liter on the present exchange. No, my people do not export to the US yet, but we are looking for people to work with us on this - hence the offer on rarefruit. If you don't feel comfortable putting this on, that's fine, I understand. Still, there is an interest in the product, and if people want to try it and use it, and develop their own little distribution networks to sell neem, then this is an opportunity. We are not big business, and if there are other people who are happy to work this way, then we can get good neem at a fair price for you. Cheers, Brian --------------------------------- Detailed discussion of problems getting Longans and Litchees to bloom ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:48:15 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: leaf analysis I wonder if any of you have any advice on the benefits and reliability of leaf analysis. I am very much interested. Let me explain my interest. I grow over 1000 longan trees in Thailand. The income from longans is very important for me. The major problem facing us is that longan generally flowers once every two years. I grow the cultivar, Daw, which flowers most easily among the whole bunch, and yet, we still have problems. I know that Daw can, under the right conditions, flower every year. I have seen an orchard, quite far away from mine, which flowers every year, and the owner does not take great care of his orchard! It is general concensus among the Thais that the reason for flowering bi-annually is the short period of recuperation. The harvesting of longans ends by the end of August, and longans generally flower by the end of January. Within the short period of 5 months, we have to get the longans to grow new leaves twice, prune them thoroughly, stress them. If we do not do everything perfectly, the chances are that the longans will not be healthy enough to flower. On the other hand, if we over-fertilize or under-stress the longans, they will sprout leaves instead of flowers. So Far, I have hit upon the right combination yet. Leaf analysis may provide the answer, or will it? I would very much like to know. Sainarong Rasananda -------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 18:08:16 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Getting longans to flower Warning: I have a feeling this is going to be quite a long e-mail, so if the topic is not sufficiently interesting for you, just delete it. I am going to discuss the subject with Moshe in the hope of getting a solution. Doing experiments on fruit trees in Thailand is probably much harder than in Israel, because in Thailand, there are so many important uncontrollable factors/variables. Thailand is so perfect for growing fruit trees - the soil, the climate, the temperature, the humidity, the wind, the rain, the dampness in the soil are so conducive for growing fruit trees, and all these factors are uncontrollable. So, quite often, it is very hard to reach a conclusion on experiments. Longans are like sons. They are very easy to grow, very easy to take care of, and when they flower, they do so in profusion, but they will flower whenever they feel like it, not when you want them to, and quite often, you have no idea whether they will flower. Exasperating! Uncontrollable. Weather appears to play a very important part in the process. So, what most people do now is to make the trees as healthy as we can and pray. The fruit growers do not put in a lot of cow manure after harvest, because they found that this resulted in 'leafing' instead of flowering. Water-strees is common practice. The rain stops sometimes between late October and early November. Harvesting is in July through August. Most people do not water after harvesting, until flowering, except when they are fertilizing. In fact, we are more guily of over-stressing, if anything. Often, the trees withered in December. We find that the trees which are given some water in December to prevent them from withering flower better than those which were not given any water at all. Harvesting, for me, takes about a month. I cannot do it in a shorter time. After the harvest, I fertilize the trees first, and prune them afterward in an effort to get them to 'leaf' early. Everything takes quite a lot time. At the time of writing, I am just about to finish my pruning. Let me give you the history of my orchard last year. Two things you must know. First, last year was a bumper crop for any fruit trees in Thailand. Even my lychees which normally do not flower well had a record year. Secondly, I have many small plots of longan orchard which are not neccesarily adjacent, but are close to each other. The trees are between 9 and 16 years old. There were 3 plots which I decided to leave alone, because they had a good harvest in the previous year, and did not look too healthy. These plots, I put a lot of cow manure, put plenty of chemical fertilizers, even dug up 2 of the plots, and I did not water-stress at all. I gave them considerable water. They all flowered profusely. I was quite confused. What I did should have caused the leaves to sprout profusely, but I had instead flowers. One of the aforementioned plot only 'leaf' once. Normally, they should 'leaf' twice before flowering, but it still produce a lot of flowers. On the other hand, another plot which did not flower the previous year, and I had high hope of flowering. I did what I thought was the right thing. You know, early pruning, just the right amount of fertilizer early, water-stress at the right time. All my neighbors, who are also orchard owners, said what a lovely plot. What happened? Almost no flower! Why? I have no idea. I noticed, however, that the trees 'leaved' three times, but that should not have caused any trouble, because the last bunch of new leaves started sprouting in late November - 2 whole months before flowering time. I noticed that the leaves too a long time to 'mature'. In fact, by the end of January, the leaves were still not dark green. I find that the darker green, the new leaves, the morelikely the trees are to flower. Why? Again, no idea. Lack of secondary nutritients. Some of my neighbors commented that I did not prune the trees sufficiently, and there were too many leaves. Yet, another plot of 16-years old. Three years ago, we had a really bumper crop at the time when all other orchards had a bad time. The following year, almost no flower. So, I had high hope last year. I did all the right thing, or so I thought. What happened? A failure. Why? Again, I have no idea. Some neighbors say that the trees are very big, and are very close together, and I need to cut some trees down to give the others more rooms to flourish. Only one plot ran true to form. Good crop two years ago. Last year, not a good harvest. I found that all the special chemicals/hormones did not do any good. It also did not matter what kind of fertilizers I used, as long as I used sufficient fertilizers at the right time. Many orchards which regularly win prizes at the fair only use the most common fertiizer, 15-15-15. Yes, Moshe. Mangoes may be harder to grow, but they are much easier to control. BTW, the orchard which flower well every year. The orchard is on flat sandy soil. The water level is generally less than one meter deep. The water seeps through very fast. Ditches of water are dug in such a way that every tree is only 2 or 3 meters away from a ditch full of water on either side. My friend and I conclude that the trees must obtain quite a bit of water, even in the winter. You see, we are confused. But I shall keep on truying to find the answer which is very important to me. Sainarong Rasananda ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:57:57 -0500 From: moshe To: Sainarong Rasananda: sainaron@samart.co.th Subject: Longans and Litchee-Regulating Bloom; Leaf Analysis Help? Sainarong Rasananda wrote: I wonder if any of you have any advice on the benefits and reliability of leaf analysis. I am very much interested. Moshe replies: we had the same problem in Israel with litchis. they looked vegetative perfect but didn't flower well. the problem was that we over fertilized them, but more important, over irrigated them. with water stress that is recommended now in Israel, all orchards are flowering every year and they give good yields. in Israel we finish picking at august. we prune and them we stop irrigating (usually after one new flush). in October the cold winter comes and also the rains. then in April we have a very good flowering. the neglected orchard that you mentioned, the flowers well, is under constant stress, I guess, that is why it is flowering better. anyway, I don't think that leaf analysis will give you the answer. also there wasn't enough reaserch about the optimal nutrients level in longan so I don't know if the standards they have in this laboratory, can really tell something. Moshe ------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:50:44 -0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda To: moshe Subject: Articles on longans and lychees Hi, Moshe! Today, I received all your 8 articles on longans and lychees. What can I say? I am absolutely speechless. They are indeed very valuable to me. I shall read and re-read all of them, and shall treasure them. There are so few original papers on longans. If anyone knows of any, I would very much appreciate hearing about them. I am collecting them. Sainarong Rasananda ----------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 04:36:28 -0500 From: moshe Subject: Re: Getting longans to flower dear Sainarong Rasananda! in the sub tropics, (like in Israel) flower will occur in the spring, after a cool winter. I guess that in your area the temperatures are not low enough (that is why your litchi is not flowering well). but even with out the induction of low temperature, flowering flushes should occur on terminal buds after long periods of stem rest. now, you said that your trees sometimes flush 3 times. this maybe the reason why your trees are not flowering every year. for ex. in litchi in Israel we prone the trees after picking (mechanically) then give them a lot of water and fertilizers in order to get one flush only !! then we hold the water for a period of time which depends on the soil, irrigation system etc. and we let this flush mature. this mature flush will go into the winter in the right stage to be able to receive the cold temperature induction. young flush will pass the winter but will not flower, because the terminal bud, that received the cold induction wasn't in the right stage to get the induction and flower. longans are more tropical but there should be an induction for them too, maybe low temperature also (although not as low as in the sub-tropics), the flushes that go into the induction period should be mature enough in order to flower later. too many flushes will bring too young flushes into the induction season and they will not flower. also keeping fruits late on the tree or pruning late will cause to late flushing that will not get the induction to flower and will not flower on the year after. this will enhance the phenomena of bi annual bearing. you can try, on small scale, reducing the amount of panicles on the tree by 50%, manually, this way the tree might give 50% of it's production, but each year on different panicles. which is a better situation then getting high yield once every two years. again, it's hard to think of a solution over the internet, but I tried to think of some ideas that maybe will help, I still think that leaf analysis will give you nothing. we do it here every year but in order to see if we are OK with fertilizers and to correct deficiencies. I was a little bit confused regarding to the time of flowering, fruit set, picking etc. if you can, please describe a cycle of one year, from picking to picking, with all the operations you do in the field and the climate in each stage. (temperature, rain fall etc.) Moshe ------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 09:35:23 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Re: longan Dear Sainarong Rasananda Sorry about the delay in getting back to you, but I have been very busy doing consulting work. Ok, first of all, the old longan tree - yes, its age is a good estimate. When I was a child (25 years or so ago), this tree had a diameter of about 60cm at its butt. Chicken tongue seeds are those special seeds which are non-viable, and are shrunken and small. What this means is that the aril of the fruit has developed parthenocarpically (ie the fruit has developed without fertilisation of the flower). Usually, with lychees and longans, the seed is large and full, but with chicken tongue fruit, there is only a tiny seed, with a big juicy fruit surrounding the seed. Surely you have come across this. Further to your discussions with Moshe about your biennial bearing problem. In the years where your trees flower heavily, try pruning off more than half the flowers on some trees. Longans tend to be very prolific bearers, and this takes a lot out of the tree. So much so that sometimes the trees growth can be stunted if it is grown in a cooler area, where flowering tends to be even more prolific than in tropical areas. This means the tree does not have enough "oomph" to flower the following year. So if you reduce the flowering by pruning, you can get another crop next year - so the theory goes. Any stress, but particularly water and even more so, cool temperatures can bring on flowering. Some Australian growers practice the ancient art of cincturing to bring on flower set in "off" years. This involves taking a saw, and very carefully cutting through the cork cambium only on each branch. If you cut below the bark, and into the vascular bundles, you will kill your branch - so practice on a small scale first!. This has the effect of concentrating whatever it is in the branches that causes flowering, and initiates flowering. It has been years since I knew everything about cincturing, so I suggest you look it up and ask someone who knows. I believe there is an Australian by the name of Keith Chapman working on an ACIAR (Australian Centre for International Agricultural Research) exchange at some University just south of Bangkok. Keith is a real treasure trove of info on tropical fruits - especially lychee and longan. Find him, it can't be too difficult - and your search will be rewarded with good company and valuable information. Cheers Brian. --------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 08:09:18 +1000 To: Sainarong Rasananda: sainaron@samart.co.th From: Crop Tech Subject: Longan Production. Dear Sir, This Email is in response to your letter that I received this morning. My name is Malcolm Frick and I am one of the consultants that works for Crop Tech in Australia. I am going to discuss your problem and include some information on sap petiole analysis. YOUR PROBLEM: Biennial bearing is a huge problem everywhere in that type of crop. Australia grows a lot of lychees (a very close relative) and some longans. The problem of biennial bearing is evident here also. At a recent lychee conference held near here, the discussion on fertiliser programs and irrigation timing and tree management was discussed and it was evident that there were a lot of different ways of manageing lychee trees with different areas and growers recording very good results, somtimes using totally opposite managment strategies. Biennial bearing stems from a combination of irrigation, nutrition, climatic factors and tree canopy management. To obtain a consistent yield, it is important to get a balance between the level of flowering and fruiting, and vegetative growth. If you have a year with a very large fruit load, then the tree tends not to store as much carbohydrate in its limbs (reduced vegetative growth) and there may be a problem with reduced fruit size also. The lack of fruit size is a factor of not enough stored nutrients and insufficient uptake of required nutrients (eg potassium). This will also tend to lead to a reduced flowering in the following year due to the reduced storage of carbohydrates. To reduce the nutritional demand placed on the tree, adequate applications of the appropriate nutrients can help offset the lack of supply to the tree, resulting in better vegetative growth and better fruit size and fruit colour. Sap analysis is an ideal method of assessing the nutritional status of the tree. To obtain the most out of the testing, I usually advize my clients to monitor regularly (monthly for trees) so that the trends of each element can be looked at. For example; Potassium is required in larger amounts after fruit set and increasingly as fruit size increases. If you only took a single sample you would not be able to know whether the sap levels were increaseing or decreasing. If you monitor regularly you can see which way the levels are headed and fertilise accordingly. This also enables you to effectively increase the applications of a particular element directly relating to tree requirement. So in a heavy crop year the levels of nitrogen and potassium can be applied relating to tree requirement. You have indicated that you apply a stress to the trees which I assume is an irrigation stress. This type of stressing works best if you are able to quantify the level of stress that is applied. Using the EnviroScan (state of the art soil moisture monitoring equipment) we have been able to do just that. Also by accurately monitoring the soil moisture during flowering, fruit set and vegetative growth, the amount of moisture stress applied to the tree can be reduced, thereby decreasing the overall stress to the tree and improving nutrient uptake. This will result in better fruit size/colour, better tree vigour, stronger vegetative growth and possibly reduced stored carbohydrate use by the tree. All in all, this will help to overcome the biennial bearing by reduceing tree stresses in the big crop years. The interpretation of a sap analysis test is quite different to that of a dry tissue test. There are a lot more factors to take into account and without the proper interpretation optimal levels and interpretation notes it is almost impossible to be able to deliver an effective recommendation. This information is only available to Thai AgroTech and will not become available to anyone else in Thailand, as we released this information under a confidential licencing agreement. Following is a grower sheet that John and I have written to explain the principles behind petiole sap analysis and how it differs from dry tissue analysis. I hope that you find that it answers a lot of your questions. If it doesn't, please feel free to contact me again with more detailed questions and I will answer them as best I can. Best Regards Mal Frick B.Agr.Sc. (Consulting agronomist) FRUIT TREE PETIOLE SAP MONITORING PROGRAM This program is designed to collect data by regularly monitoring nutrient levels in the petiole sap and analyse the trees' physiological reaction to the environment and agronomic management. Sap testing provides an indication of the rate of tree metabolism and this can assist in the development of an overall crop fertiliser management program for each season. Trees are cyclic in their growth patterns, with these patterns following the various plant physiological phases throughout the year, these being; vegetative (flushing growth), dormancy and reproductive growth. This means that the optimal levels of nutrients in citrus are not necessarily constant throughout the season, and therefore, are graphed and compared against optimal level graphs relating to that particular stage of growth. This emphasises the importance of studying and understanding the dynamic changes of nutrient demand and supply over the season. By understanding the dynamic changes in nutrient levels, it is then possible to more accurately time fertiliser applications, in either solid, fertigation or foliar forms, to meet tree peak demand. The size of a crop on the tree will have an effect on the nutrient demand on especially potassium and with regular testing the immediate shortfall towards the end of fruit fill can be offset by foliar applications of potassium. There are a number of external factors that can influence the nutrient levels in the sap flow, such as, weather, irrigation and temperature. In general, these factors only play a minor role except in the cases where the period of influence is for an extended length of time. These factors need to be considered when making recommendations from any leaf test. We believe, that by using the petiole sap levels to assess the dynamics of the changes over a period of time, we can, when combined with weather, tree management factors and crop performance data, get an overall picture of the crop nutrition through the season. A graph showing the optimal range for each element is drawn up for each crop and adjusted as more information is collected. When the tested level is higher or lower than the "optimal window" a diagnosis is made from the above criteria. Changes in levels are a good indicator of changes in nutrient status. When comparing changes in more than one nutrient, antagonistic effects can be identified. Nutrients Monitored: Nitrate Phosphate Potassium Calcium Magnesium Sulfur Zinc Copper Iron Manganese Boron Information that can be Gained From Sap Testing on a Monitoring Program: (a) Responses to applied nutrients. When nutrients are applied to soil sometimes they are not taken up and this can often be observed. (b) Affects of water stressing (irrigation or rainfall) on nutrient uptake; over-watering often causes poor uptake of nitrogen, phosphorus, and calcium. Nutrient patterns can be used to pinpoint poor irrigation practices. (c) Affects on nutrient uptake of weather stresses. Dry often reduces uptake of nitrogen and Calcium, while cold overcast weather can reduce uptake of potassium. Foliar supplements may help to offset this stress by reducing the length and severity of the deficiency. (d) Depletion of nutrients by heavy usage, e.g. Heavy crops can use more potassium than can be supplied by the soil. Foliar applications may help to overcome this shortfall. (e) Deficiencies in trace elements induced by application of macro nutrients. Excess K can induce Mg deficiencies. Heavy applications of P can reduce Zn uptake. (f) Affects of nutrient imbalances in the soil, e.g. high Mg in soil can inhibit sufficient uptake of potassium. (g) Levels of nutrient at harvest are important for quality, and adjustments can often be made leading up to harvest in an attempt to optimise fruit quality e.g. Calcium and potassium. (h) As tree crops rely on reserves of carbohydrates and minerals, it may be possible to detect and offset dwindling reserves and reduce the depression effect on the following crop. This is not as yet known, but work in Israel has shown that it is possible in some crops. (i) The best time to assess the status of particular elements in the plant is not the same for each element. The most appropriate time to test for a particular element is when it is in demand and being used heavily by the plant, eg. nitrogen during vegetative growth, phosphate and zinc during flowering and potassium and calcium during fruit development. It was also noted that the changes in the element levels were indicators of the reserves, usage and uptake of the elements. (j) A basic set of nutrient/plant relationships have been found to be relevant to almost all plants monitored. (e.g. growth stages vs nutrient uses; effects of water management; soil nutrient imbalances etc) (k) Putting it simplistically, sap testing is a snapshot of elements in the sap stream while dried tissue is the total amount of element in the leaf; sap testing, therefore, can detect a temporary shortage caused by a range of factors other than nutrient deficiency in the soil. This can be critical if the higher demand is due to heavy fruit load and supply is restricted by an imbalance of cations (for instance). In this case, adequate potassium in the soil is not taken up fast enough due to competition with magnesium, and yield and quality can be limited by temporary deficiency in the plant. To be able to obtain a full picture of the nutritional status of the tree, it is advisable to monitor on a regular basis. A typical program for citrus monitoring would be as follows: 1. Just prior to flowering. (full analysis) 2. 2-3 weeks later. (short test) 3. Every 3-4 weeks till harvest. (alternate full and short tests) This type of program would result in between 7 and 9 tests over the whole season. The nutritional corrections that can be made as either foliar or soil applied applications. By looking at the full seasons set of sap tests (in conjunction with a dry matter leaf analysis if available) the next years fertiliser program can be fine tuned for maximum production in the following year. These guidelines are used as a basic tool to interpret results of leaf petiole tests, but it is essential to understand the dynamics of nutrient testing, other management criteria and crop data. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - October 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 10/15/97 20 This issue is small, possibly because readers are still digesting the very large issue of October 1. Topics in this issue: Subject: Rats - Let 'Em Wage War On Themselves! From: Finula Subject: Appreciation, and What About Early Gold Mango? From: Doron Kletter Subject: Hi, Neighbor, Tell Me About Mycorrhizal Fungi From: Daniel K.Duprey [Note: Dan's letter stirred my curiosity, so I wrote to B. Rateaver for her point of view. She's very knowledgeable, lives in S. California, but I am not acquainted with her, personally. I'd like to hear more points of view from you on Mycorrhizal Fungi. (Also, how do you pronounce it?) Leo] Subject: mycorrhizal fungi - Tell me about it. From: B Rateaver Subject: My Location and My Company's Looking for Consultants From: Tim Hoy Subject: Old Friends, Former Neighbors, New Readers From: Carl & Maria Erlandson Subject: Renew Subscription From: Richard K. Gross Subject: Leo's Cardiac Surprise Subject: Renew Subscription & Involving the Heart From: Richard K. Gross Subject: Carob, Durian, Jaboticaba and Marking Pens From: John Lambert Subject: Neem: Thai vs Indian From: Dan Hemenway Subject: Neem From Seed - I Was Told To Tell You... From Dan Hemenway Subject: Replying to Brian re: neem From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Exchanging Litchi/Longan Research From: moshe Subject: Request for publications on longans From: Sainarong Rasananda: Subject: New Subscriber Needs Lychee Facts From: Robert Allen Subject: Tissue Culturing Bananas From: Keith Benson The last two letters deal with which direction the publications from California Rare Fruit Growers should take. Is it time to change course somewhat? Should e-mail be utilized more in communicating with special interest groups in the organization? Subject: CRFG Publications - Where Are We Headed? From: Robert Chambers Subject: Re: CRFG Publications From: DGholston@aol.com ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 3 Oct 1997 09:35:12 -0400 (EDT) From: FinulaM@aol.com Subject: Rats - Let 'Em Wage War On Themselves! I have never forgotten what my old animal behavior professor told me about how you get rid of rats. Bring in a few more rats! Rats have an extremely strict pecking order. If you have a big rat problem, beyond what a cat or a terrier can handle, then the thing to do is start a rat war. Exchange a couple of trapped rats with someone in a different area and release them. Those rats will have to fight with every other rat for dominance. After they are dead all the other rats have to fight each other again to reestablish the disrupted pecking order. By the time it is over, 90 to 98 percent of the rats are dead. It takes them about two years to breed their numbers back up. Hope it helps Finula ----------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 14:01:02 PDT From: Doron Kletter Subject: Appreciation, and What About Early Gold Mango? Leo, Thank you for your quick response. I did not had a chance yet to study the contents of the Rare Fruits News Online in deail, but just from what I saw so far I can tell this is going to greatly suppass my expectations. I live in Sam Mateo, which is half way between San Francisco and San Jose. I am situated on the eastern slope of the hills, some 15 miles away from the ocean. Never had a freeze in the five years I've been here. I don't get much fog either, as it usually dissipates by the time it gets to the Crystal Spring Reservoir. Would you happen to know if Early Gold is poly- or mono- embryonic? I would very much like to take you on your word and see your trees sometimes. I'm afraid I don't get to visit San Diego that often. -- Doron -- ----------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 07:09:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" To: russell@icanect.net Subject: Hi, Neighbor, Tell Me About Mycorrhizal Fungi Russell: I saw your posting in the rare fruit newsletter and have some of the same interests that you do. I live in Lake Worth, which is maybe 40-some miles north of you. I'm also 5 miles inland, so I have to worry more on cold winter nights than you do. I just started applying mycorrhizal fungi to some of my fruit trees and banana plants during the last couple weeks. I used Mycor Tree Root Saver, which I ordered from Professor Will in Ft. Lauderdale. He spoke to the Palm Beach County Rare Fruit Council a few weeks ago. He made Mycor products sound too good to be true, but since I had taken a course in tropical fruit from him many years ago, I have a lot of faith in his integrity as well as his knowledge. (Since you seem to have several Zill cultivars in your collection, I'm wondering if you took the same course, including the field trip to Zill's.) So far I've only applied the Mycor to the plants that, for one reason or another, seemed like they could benefit from a "boost" and it is too early to tell if it is going to help them. The Mycor did not come with much documentation about how to use it, how to store it, what its shelf life is, how to determine if it is still active, etc. so I don't have much information to share. I will let you know how things are growing though. I have read a couple articles about how mycorrhizae function in nature, in recent issues of Tropical Fruit News, but they probably covered material you already know. What has been your experience with mycorrhizae so far? I'll be writing to you again, about mangos and muscadines, and jakfruit. But for now I wonder if you'd tell me a bit about the "Dotson" mango cv. I have "Dot" and "Hodson", but I've never heard of Dotson. Is it from Zill? Have you tasted it yet? Dan Duprey ---------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 11:29:16 -0400 (EDT) From: BRateaver@aol.com Subject: mycorrhizal fungi - Tell Me About It It seems to me, when you think of a tree, that lives long and produces much, that the comparatively small price of a mycorrhizal culture is small price to pay in thanks to the tree, and presumably once it is in that soil, it stays there and multiplies. Often those fungi are already there, but it does not hurt to put a culture in, and I would certainly always do it. It should be possible to find out what type of mycorrhizal culture is best for the plant you consider. You should be able to get that information from the culture supplier. Another point--in a forest, so I suppose also in a tree farm, you would get sharing between trees. Whatever one tree gets in fungus, neighboring trees get also, as the fungus has just one aim in life--to live and grow and reproduce, so it ranges farther and farther all the time, merging with other trees' fungi so the whole place is one big tangle of mycorhizal fungus strands, interwoven. I think that is marvelous and certainly worth a few dollars. Don Chapman in Camarillo is the nearest source to me. In the east there is Don Marx. I don't recall if you told me where you live but now there are several sources scattered around the country. I suggested Mr. Chapman because he is working with Dr. Robert Linderman, who has spent his entire academic life with mycorrhizae and has trained most of the people now working in this field, and he is an extra fine person too, a man of personal integrity. When I did this place, I would have jumped at the chance to buy mycorrhizal cultures but at that time they were not available. I was a voice crying in the wilderness, alone. But I have had some cultures to add to my soil but now the trees are all big, and the roots of all are intermingled in this small yard, so it would be hard to say what did what. Maybe with all the OM I dumped on this yard, mycorrhizae were probably already present. But if I were starting fresh believe me I would give up something to pay for the cultures. Plants get first consideration in my mind. I can always do without something others consider important--like new clothes, or a vacation, or entertainment. I always try to find a person of integrity and go by what that person says/does. But as to mycorrhizal value, that is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. There is an enormous amount of data about mycorrhizae, so it isn't something one wonders about, any longer. I never have doubted it, since I read about that in my youth, even in such a primitive place as Madagascar, where I grew up, because my father had some books and I was esp interested in orchids, that really have to depend on mycorrhizae. If I had had, at that time, when I was just craving knowledge, access to any library other than my father's personal library--the only one in the entire southern half of the island, I would have been ecstatically thrilled and wildly welcoming every little opportunity. People here have marvelous library access, and free, and never see the inside of one. Anyway, the cost of a culture for trees is so comparatively inexpensive, I don't see any reason to hesistate. One pays for water and so on, for the life of a tree, so why begrudge it such a little aid that does so very much? I am not saying YOU begrudge it, I am just hoping to make it clear that this one aid outdoes anything else you can do except compost. Marx has been famed for years for his work with tree root mycor., but Linderman is more interested in other, endo types. He knows so much, you cannot mention any paper, any article, any book, any researcher in this field without his knowing all about everything mentioned. I am sure they are both fine family men. Marx said his wife had worked with him so long she could give his lectures just as well as he does. Linderman's whole family has been soaked in mycorr data from earliest days. I see there are others who are jumping on the bandwagon to make money, but these 2 have done the hard basis all their lives. I honor this and appreciate it. I am totally unfamiliar with web sites, but I am sure Don Chapman has one or knows of one. I am getting so fed up with computer problems, I am about to give it all up. B. Rateaver -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 10:00:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Hoy Subject: My Location and My Company's Looking for Consultants I'm in south Broward County, Miramar to be exact. Leo, my company AGRIDEC is preparing a proposal for two 5 day training courses in El Salvador. One course will be for mangoes and one for citrus fruits. The subject areas are : Mango: Production, breeding, plant physiology, and plant protection (IPM) Citrics: Plant physiology, production, IPM, post harvest handling, processing, and marketing. If we win the contract, we expect to do the courses sometime in January. If you know of consultants that are capable of participating in any of these areas, they can forward their resume to me at Agridec@Aol.com or fax at (305) 598-5885 They must also be fluent in Spanish. Talk to you soon! Tim Hoy ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:13:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Carl & Maria Erlandson Subject: Old Friends, Former Neighbors, New Readers Hi Leo As requested we are providing an introduction of ourselves and what we are currently growing. Name: Carl & Maria Erlandson Location: Peoria, AZ (USA) Background in Rare Fruit: Maria is a native of the Philippines and she grew up with many of the so-called "rare fruits" we are interested in. Carl "caught the bug" in 1979 after attending a horticultural class on avocados. We have traveled abroad several times to collect seeds and plant material. In 1991 we took a group of CRFG members to Jamaica and in 1993 we took another CRFG group to Costa Rica. While living in Escondido, CA from 1979 to 1994 we had planted an extensive collection of rare fruits on our 1 1/2 acres. We did quite a bit of plant propagation and Maria sold fruits, Asian vegetables and plants at several of the local farmer's markets. We hosted many tours of our garden and the nursery area. We relocated to to the Phoenix area in 1994 and now live on a property with 1 and 1/4 acres. We have planted 45 trees in the back yard which include several varieties of citrus, jujube and persimmons. Due to extreme summer heat, we have lost several plants which included White Sapotes and Cherimoyas. Bananas, Papayas and Horseradish tree due well in semi-shaded, protected areas. Maria does have a large garden of Filipino vegetables. Involvement in organizations: We have been members of the California Rare Fruit Growers since 1980. Carl was on the CRFG Board of Directors for 6 years through the mid 80's. He was then President of the North San Diego County chapter for 4 years. At present, we are members of the newly formed Arizona Chapter of CRFG. Best regards, Carl & Maria Erlandson ----------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 10:37:16 -0700 From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: Renew Subscription & Involving the Heart1 Hi leo. Just got off the phone a while ago with Maria Erlandson, learning that she knows you--that's not quite the word--is a long time acquaintence of yours. I had open heart surgery in August and was unable to attend the Fruit Festival. Expecting to see me there, she called to inquire about my health. Some months ago, I changed internet providers from aol to at&t. In the switch, I lost the contact with your newsletter, then--it was out of sight, out of mind until Maria mentioned your name. Can I get back on your list? If you have a spare moment sometime, I want to graft my mango to several seedlings. Is the following procedure near to the correct procedure? -1/4 inch root and scion stock. -Wedge, I believe, is scion cut vee shape fitted into a slit in stem of root stk. -wrap first with green tape, follow with saran wrap and cover the whole thing with a clear plastic bag. -pray. I have killed several nice seedlings and have the feeling my touch is the kiss of death. Maria said that you are a master. If this request is an imposition, forgive me. I am the secretary of the Arizona branch of the California Rare Fruit Growers. If you saw our booth at the Festival last week, I put most of it together. I lived in San Diego from 1936 to 1965. Paradise Hills. My wife's parents still live in Chula Vista and we get over fairly often. I would like to meet you sometime. Best regards, Dick Gross ---------------------- Richard, you mentioned heart surgery. I very recently had a cardiac surprise when an EKG stress test showed "ST segment depression" (whatever that means) and I'm due for a "catheterization" tomorrow, where the catheter goes up the artery in the right thigh into the heart. Dye is injected and x-rays are taken, to analyze the blood circulation. Leo [Note: It's over now and there's no need for additional procedures. What a relief! The worst of it was being required to lie flat on my back for 8 straight hours, with my right leg kept straight and immoble. Made for a very long day. Leo] ------------------------------------- From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: Renew Subscription & Involving the Heart Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 22:56:08 -0700 Thanks for the info, Leo. It sounds like you are going through a situation similar to mine a month ago. I flunked a routine treadmill physical, endured three angiograms and one nuclear imaging, rejected a reco for a rotoblade and stent in favor of open heart 2-way bypass after a second opinion pointed out that a 3mm stent was proposed for a blocked artery only 3mm in diameter. It's a bit traumatic but it seems about as risky as tonsilectomys not too many years ago. We are lucky to detect these problems before a serious heart attack permantly kills heart muscle. I live in Phoenix, Arizona on a decent sized residential lot. In the ground I have: 1 massive pink grpfrt, sweet, delicious fruit best eaten out of hand. 1 Dancy tangerine, 1 tangelo, 1 navel, all full grown. 1 juvie blood orange. 1 mature sweet chinese lemon espaliered on 20 foot of chain link fence. 1 14 yr old, 15' tall mango seedling, 4th yr producing, '97 crop about 200 fruit mostly large plum size wi flat chicken-tongue seed. Swt, fiberless. 1 lychee one yr old. Several varieties each papayas, bananas, passion vines, guavas, other 1 & 5 gal. seedlings, about 50 mango, papaya, Equador avocado, guava, white sapote, misc citrus, jelly palm, other misc. Thanks again for the last issue of rare fruit news. Best regards, Dick Gross ------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 19:36:52 +1000 From: John Lambert Subject: Carob, Durian, Jaboticaba and Marking Pens Hi Leo, I have just finished reading with interest the last Rare Fruits News and have, firstly a question, then a few comments about issues raised: 1. Carob Trees I have 3 carob trees of about 4 years old. Two flowered for the first time this year but with no sign of any fruit set. Is it right that I need both male and female trees? And how do I tell the difference between each? 2. Durian After spending 2 years living in Singapore and Malaysia I finally acquired a taste for the Durian. Unfortunately it will not grow here in northern NSW, but they are growing it commercially in North Queensland. My wife, who is from Malaysia tells me that Durian is one of the few fruits that Tigers love (not that there are too many Tigers left in the Malaysian jungles nowdays!)and that alcohol & Durians should never be consumed together - it can even be fatal!. 3. Jaboticaba I have grown many Jaboticaba from seed. The fresh seed germinates easily. They are a hardy and full and handsome bush but take up to 6 years to bear fruit. 4. Marking pen for outdoor use. I find that the Permanent marker pens used by lecturers for OverHead Transparencies are great on any plastic surfaces and stand up well. However, by far the best marker which is not worried by the elements is the Switchboard marking pens used (in Australia) by electricians and available at any electrical wholesaler. They are in fact a "paint" pen. Keep up the good work, John Lambert The Channon NSW 2480 Australia ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 16:28:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Hemenway Subject: Neem: Thai vs Indian Sainarong Rasananda is correct that the Thai neem is different. It is a different species than the Indian neem, though in the same genus and reportedly similar in its uses. The Thai neem is reportedly not as bitter, though bitter enough, and the leaves are used as a health-promoting potherb. Without very advanced processing, neem preparations as insecticides are short lived in potency. To some of us, this is an asset as in a biological control situation we want to spray to knock back an excessive "pest" population, not reduce it to numbers where its predators can no longer survive. BT might be a better option than neem for Sainarong Rasananda in the control of butterfly and moth larvae. It is more specific. Dan Hemenway ------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Oct 1997 06:16:38 +0000 From: Dan Hemenway Subject: Neem From Seed - I Was Told To Tell You... If I had been given neem seeds, the most important thing is getting them in the ground ASAP. They're only viable for 10 to 20 days. Professionally, we've decided the best way to deal with them is to sprout them like bean sprouts, and then plant the seeds we know are viable in larger pots than could be justified for an unsprouted seed. This saves us a good deal of time and energy, and the plants seem to grow better because their tap roots aren't cramped. Another alternative, particuarly if he has a large number of seeds, is building a seedling bed of dry leaves, moistening it well and putting the seeds in it to sprout. We built the bed with a good layer of newspaper underneath the leaves -- to stop the tap roots from going too deep -- and about six inches of oak leaves. It worked so well we left many seedlings in it until the following spring. They were easy to cover in freezes and the roots growing in leaf mold transplanted very easily. Just don't leave them too long or they'll go through the paper and into the ground, then they're much harder to dig up! If he just has a few seeds, plant them like beans about as deep as they are wide in light soil that's kept damp but not wet. As noted earlier, large pots are best. Dan Hemenway ---------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 22:36:13 -0700 From: To: hewlett@ozemail.com.au Subject: Replying to Brian re: neem Officially, the Thais are taking neem seriously. The University of Agriculture is holding a 2-day seminar on neem at the end of this month. I have enrolled in the seminar. Hopefully, I shall be wiser by then. However, the use of neem is not yet widespread. I shall discover the reason for it at the seminar, I hope. For Brian - that is what I like about the Aussies. They shot straight from the hip, so to speak. Such tough comments are valuable, Brian. Keep them coming. ----------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 12:04:33 -0400 From: moshe To: sainaron@samart.co.th Subject: Exchanging Litchi/Longan Research hi! our mango harvest is over (thanks god), but soon we will start again with green mangoes to the USA. as for more literature, I will send you some more articles. if you have an academic library near you I can just send you the sources for articles and you can copy them by yourself, but as I wrote to you before I enjoy discussing those matters and I really don't mind sending those articles by mail. an article I wrote (about my research in litchi),to the American journal of horticulture is about to be published. as soon as I have the prints in my hand I will send you a copy. moshe ------------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Oct 1997 13:41:54 -0700 From: Subject: Request for publications on longans Our newly formed National Longan Growers Association Of Thailand has decided to set up a library of international articles/pubications on longan. If you know of any such articles/publications, please advice me. If you can tell me how to get a copy of the publication, so much the better. I have access to the library of the University Of Agriculture in Thailand, and I can make copies of articles which are available at the library. If you can tell me how to contact the relevant researchers, that would be great. It appears that most of the research papers/articles on longans originate from either Australia or China. ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 10:15:48 +0100 From: Robert Allen Subject: New Subscriber Needs Lychee Facts Leo and Betty-- I noted in Bob Chamber's recent ruminations on the future of CRFG that your online newsletter contained information on longans and lychees. At the Festival of Fruit I bought from Roger Meyer a Kaimana Lychee, which he says is a recent introduction from Hawaii. My interest is in obtaining cultural information for the climate around the San Francisco Bay. Roger had essentially no information available. What can you tell me? Also, please include me on your distribution list. As newsletter editor for the Santa Clara Valley chapter, I am always looking for items of interest, particularly for members who do not have internet access. Thanks for your help. I live in Los Altos Hills, California, which borders on Los Altos, Palo Alto, and Cupertino. I am growing the following fruits, some of which may be called rare: Figs (20 or so varieties) Quinces Loquats Lychees Mulberries Pluots Blood Oranges Limes (including Kaffir) Lemons (including variegated pink) Mandarins Kumquats Grapefruit Hardy Kiwis Grapes Pluots Asian Pears Medlars May Haws Regards, Bob Allen ------------------------------------- From: Keith Benson Subject: Tissue Culturing Bananas I have my first set of meristems in culture, no signs of contamination, now I just have to wait a week or so to see if they start growing! All of the meristems in the first batch are from the Mahoi or Double banana (I had a bunch and thought I'd experiment with them) and I plan to add Red Dwarf, Williams, and Saba as the project proceeds. I am looking forward to having a bunch of plantlets available for trading this spring. I was going to use the Super Dwarf - but I understand that the plant is patented and mass producing it might upset the folks at Oglesby Labs (not that one can mass produce anything in ones kitchen - but you know what I mean). Once things are going smothly I would like to aquire aome of the more unusual varieties to try this with - I will keep the group informed of any progress Keith Benson DVM ---------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 19:29:51 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Subject: CRFG Publications - Where Are We Headed? October 12, 1997 CRFG Publications For the first ten years of CRFG the publications program reflected the interests of Paul Thomson which were generally to explore the suitability of a wide variety of fruit plants in our geographical area, find out under what conditions they would grow and bear fruit, and develop superior varieties. These coincided with the interests of most of the members. The CRFG publications in this period featured lengthy articles reviewing particular species. For the second and third decades of CRFG the publications have reflected the interests of Clytia Chambers although a number of other people have worked on the publications, and Muriel Fisch and Peggy Winter served for periods as editors. In addition there have been publications where Clytia did not have the principal responsibility such as the Fruit Facts and the blue Yearbooks. In general Clytia did not have strong feelings concerning the content of the publications, and worked with what was submitted within reasonable limits. Of course, she did actively pursue speakers and occasionally other writers to get their ideas on paper for her publications. For the most part, Clytia concentrated on the technical aspects of editing and the overall quality of the publications. Progress along those lines has been notable, and CRFG is now the sponsor of a newsstand quality magazine. I remember that when the end of the tenth year of Paul's CRFG efforts approached, he notified the membership that he was going to step aside at that point and that if they wished the organization to continue they would have to work out the details among themselves. With all respect for the accomplishments of Paul Thomson's leadership in building up an organized group of people interested in growing fruit in this area, the leadership that emerged from the members of CRFG took the organization in new directions, and probably much further than a continuation of Paul's program would have done. There is much to be said for injecting new viewpoints and new actors into an organization at intervals. Clytia has taken the position recently that she will not continue in her present role as editor of the Fruit Gardener past December 31, 1999. (She will not be primarily responsible for the publications, but she would enjoy contributing as copy editor -- adding/subtracting a few lines as needed, reading and correcting for grammar, syntax, punctuation, spelling, etc.) I think this comes at another strategic point in the development of this organization. We of CRFG have two basic ways to approach the changing of the guard in this case. We can continue the publications program along the present lines, or we can reconsider where CRFG is going, develop a plan for the future, and configure a publications program to fit the plan. This does not mean we are likely to give up the Fruit Gardener, but we may want to evolve it in some new direction. If we want to continue the present program we can consider two approaches. First, we can look for a person to step into Clytia's shoes and carry on the job that she is doing. We have been looking for this at a low level of effort for several years, and not having much success. As with Paul Thomson's job twenty years ago, I think Clytia's job, the way she is doing it and the standards she meets have become too demanding for one person to handle on a volunteer basis. The organization and the publications have grown too much. In any case the next editor is not likely to be a duplicate of Clytia, probably should not be, and no doubt would bring a different point of view, and produce a somewhat different product that would reflect his/her set of interests. If we attract somebody good enough the publication will continue to get better and grow in circulation. The second approach is to split the job up in some way. Having watched at close hand, and to a minor degree participated in her editing process, I think I could describe several organizational approaches that could lead to approximately the results that she has been obtaining with room for many incremental improvements. However, both Clytia and I believe we are at a turning point where the question arises of whether a continuation of the status quo suits the needs of the CRFG that we hope will emerge.. We feel that CRFG should first consider what it is, what it wants to be in the future, and how it wants to get there which will no doubt include a substantial effort on publications as well as other modes of communication such as chapter meetings. CRFG Future Plans I have been boring people for the last several years with my observation that the Sierra Club, when I was young was a hobby organization for people who liked to hike and backpack. Then it converted itself into a crusade with various and sundry environmental goals and as a result grew very much larger and more important and arguably did more good. When people belong to a hobby organization, and I have belonged to several, they generally drop their commitments, including their subscriptions, when they give up the hobby. CRFG as it stands today is essentially a hobby organization. People come in with enthusiasm, attend lectures and learn grafting, etc., but in many, probably most, cases after a few years they get interested in something else and we lose a member. If you belong to the Sierra Club, however, you don't drop your membership just because you no longer go hiking. Actually these days maybe you never did go hiking. You have enlisted in a crusade, and committed yourself to support its noble objectives. Well, the heart of the CRFG expertise borders on subjects that are of real importance to the future health and well-being of the people of this country and the world, and thus areas of incipient crusades. The best-known such crusade in our area is the organic-gardening movement which has been getting growing recognition by the general public and mainstream press as its products show up in the supermarkets. In recent years other incipient crusades have sprung up, such as (1) sustainable farming, (2) genetic diversity, (3) better nutrition which includes eating more fruit, (4) heirloom varieties, and other objectives that are aimed at benefitting the general public. I think we should be including some crusades in our program. We do have a column on organic gardening in the Fruit Gardener. One of our problems, however, is knowing which crusades to put our bets on. However, another trend is also developing. In the beginning, most CRFG members appeared to have a fairly uniform interest in fruit along the lines indicated by Paul Thomson and John Riley. As the organization got bigger it attracted people who had more specialized interests in particular kinds of fruit plants, or even other kinds of interest in the general field. We recognized this when we wrote into the by-laws a provision for special-interest groups as well as geographical chapters. This has not gone very far, but we, as an organization, are oriented to help such special interest groups as they come along. To be more specific, the heart of CRFG is the general fruit-growing hobbyist. But we are also beginning to attract more academics who are looking for an audience for research findings. We also seem to be of increasing interest to people who grow fruits commercially and are interested in the cultural techniques as well as marketing. As mentioned above, we may have something to offer to people, such as Linda Kincaid, who are primarily interested in one of the other specialties – in her case, I believe it is sustainable agriculture. And of course there are people who want to specialize in some particular kind of plant such as Brent Thompson's Myrtaceae special-interest group. If we could reach out and provide help to people having various special interests we could have a much larger and more useful organization. But could any magazine hope to do this? I don't think the logistics make this feasible. That is to say, we can't afford to print 3,000 copies of articles that are only of interest to 100 members. However, I have been a subscriber recently to Leo Manuel's "Rare Fruit News" which is a publication distributed to subscribers by email. So far it is composed of letters sent to Leo by email. Leo organizes the letters to some extent, and selects some of them to make up an issue. The issues range in size with the largest being the last issue which was 29 printed-out pages. He has about 100 subscribers I gather and sends the collection of letters out to them at their individual email addresses. The last issue had a big section on longans and lychees, but in general the topics range across the spectrum of fruit growing. There is no monetary subscription requirement so far, although Leo must spend a lot of time on this. However, I don't imagine he has much out-of-pocket expense. What I have been wondering is whether this is not the pattern that we should be using for the special-interest groups, and maybe for a large section of our publication program. Specific Proposal Let me sketch out a publication program I would see as a possibility for CRFG. The anchor would be a magazine, probably the Fruit Gardener, which has articles of general interest on fruit. These might be summary articles on particular fruits such as pawpaw, articles on people and their gardens, articles like the one Alice Ramirez wrote on fruits of the tundra in the far north, etc. The magazine would feature good colored pictures. In other words I would hope it might resemble National Geographic Magazine. As I see it, every CRFG member would get the general-purpose magazine which would also contain announcements, seed and book catalogs, a calendar of various CRFG functions, and listings of web and email sources. Then the various chapters and special-interest groups would have their own more specialized publications. These include the newsletters that most of the geographic chapters have now. These newsletters nearly always require a supplementary dues payment. Note that some of the CRFG general dues goes to provide services to the chapters – such as insurance, seed bank, books, etc. plus other activities that the board might want to sponsor. Then the special-interest groups would be encouraged to have their own publications. If the rest of the organization grows enough, the hobby growers might want to become a special interest group and publish the articles on how to drive pests away, designs for neat devices for fertilizing, ways to do container gardening etc. – the kind of stuff that appears in the Fruit Gardener now, but could eventually be moved over to a special-interest publication. We could encourage other special-interest groups such as sustainable agriculture, organic gardening, Myrtaceae and whatever to have their own publications for the exchange of information and opinions. I would think they might, at least in the beginning, put out their publications to subscribers through email in about the same way that Leo Manuel does. Maybe we can get Leo to tell us the best way to do this. Perhaps the publication might edge into being a more formal set of articles if the group is vigorous and has somebody in it who wants to do the editing. The service that CRFG could provide to these branches of the publication program would be to assist people in setting up and running these sorts of email programs. Perhaps we could point to, or even write, some instructions, and stand ready to answer questions, etc. Maybe some members of the board would be willing to work with people who want to start up a special- interest group to provide other kinds of help. One of the things that should then be in the Fruit Gardener might be summaries of what is going on in the special chapters, along with perhaps publishing excerpts of the really good things on our web site. Certainly the Fruit Gardener ought to list the groups and their addresses for people who want to join a special-interest group. Another consideration has to be the people who are not on internet and not going to be. We have to make some provision to mail downloaded materials to them, or perhaps to their geographical chapters if that is any better. The additional cost would have to be covered, presumably by the member, just as the addition cost of the chapter newsletters is. One of the things that bothers me is that the printed Fruit Facts and the ones on the web are different. In the future I should think we would want to have the printed ones be the same as we are putting out on the web in the interest of saving extra work. I have taken the liberty of voicing some thoughts about the publications problem. There must be lots of technical problems, costs, amount of effort problems, etc. that could be discussed if there is interest in this approach. The main advantage of this general type of approach is that it moves CRFG in the direction of becoming bigger and more influential, capable of doing more good, and at the same time provides for new approaches to new subjects of special interest to be started cheaply by a few people so that we can see which ones survive before committing substantial resources to them. Our present people and publication resources could provide a useful boost for a variety of special-interest groups related to fruit. My own special interest is to see people investigating how to process some of the fruits that are not attractive to be eaten out of hand, or perhaps are too perishable. The objective would be to provide fruit to people in other forms in which they like to eat things. I would be interested in exploring some of these ideas with you in discussions. We have time to discuss many aspects of the future CRFG, but we also have some reason to get started soon doing so. These matters do not lend themselves to quick solutions of the type that board meetings sometimes elicit. Bob Chambers ------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 21:38:38 -0400 (EDT) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: CRFG Publications Bob Chambers has presented us with a large helping of food for thought that may take some digesting. I for one have no problem with our being essentially a hobbyist organization and am relatively happy with the general direction of CRFG and the Fruit Gardener. But there is no reason that we could not broaden our mission by tapping into various movements that that have arisen from ecological concerns. On the other hand I am not sure hitching our wagon to some crusade would be wise. Taking organic gardening techniques for example, while the idea has the attention of a lot of people, it seems out of step with reality at times. Applied to home or small scale commercial gardening these techniques are feasible, but I see no evidence that they could sustain the agribusiness needed to feed this country. The concepts of sustainable agriculture and integrated pest management appear to make more sense, and avoid the polemics of what is "kosher" and what is not. Some of the people in the "organic" camp appear to me to be little more than unscientific chemophobes. As Bob suggests, a little more attention to academic research might be worthwhile. And perhaps we should do more for commercial interests. We get a fair number of questions from the Internet on harvesting, processing and marketing fruits and preparing fruit products, as well as advice on commercial plantings, sources of plant material for commercial purposes and the like. Edible landscaping is another area that we might tap into. The history of special-interest efforts is a mixed bag in my observation. As far as I know, the only group that tried to organize was the Myrtaceae group, and it was essentially still born. Leo Manuel's online Rare Fruit News seems to be successful for a couple of reasons. One is, from the beginning it was essentially limited to tropical and subtropical fruits, which demonstrates the powerful appeal of this area of fruit growing to a lot of people, and something we should keep in mind. The other reason for success is that the format allows people to essentially talk to each other (through Leo's maintenance of the forum). So it would appear that online newsletters or discussion forums might be a viable approach to accommodating special interest groups. There is no reason that chapters could not have their own online discussion groups also (several already have web sites). But all of this begs the question of how to serve members without computer access. On the matter of the Fruit Facts, it is only the "old" Fruit Facts in which there are any significant differences between the online and hard copy versions. How this came about goes back to when Matt Heffron was ready to add the existing Fruit Facts to our web site and was disturbed by the uneven quality and format of them. He brought this up an one of the Board meetings, and I volunteered to reedit them for the online file. It was partly a matter of rearranging the existing information, but it was also a good time to update some of them and incorporate new information available. This would have also been the right time to reissue them in hard copy, but I did not feel that I had the expertise to do it, and no one else seemed willing to take it on. So we went ahead and added the reedited versions to the online file with the idea of getting around to the hard copies later. It was more urgent to generate hard copies of the new Fruit Facts, and Bob Allen came along in time to do this. If Bob or someone else is willing to tackle the project of reissuing the old ones, then everything will be in sync. We may need to take into consideration the number of bound old Fruit Facts (vol. 1) before we proceed. Don Gholston >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - October 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 11/01/97 21 List of SUBJECTS in this newsletter: Subject: 'GITIT' A NEW SURINAM CHERRY CULTIVAR Subject: Moshe's Returning to Israel But Available As Consultant Subject: tissue culture for beginners? Subject: Information Sought: RHEEDIA Various Subject: RFNO - Sounds Interesting Subject: Am interested in growing anything Subject: New Subscriber in Florida Subject: Re: grafting white sapote Subject: Mango for the (San Francisco) Bay Area? Subject: Add Pictures To RFNO? Subject: Mango from cuttings, Logan, Pitanga Subject: More Website Links To Explore Subject: Request back issues AND Australian Newsletter Info Subject: Communicate Real Time Via Internet Chat Subject: BANANA Rhizomes vs Seeds Subject: leaf analysis Subject: Local Fruits in Thailand in October Subject: Reply to Banana Question Subject: Mangos--Glenn Mangoes, Sugar Apple Ain't Bad Subject: Season of Mangoes in Puerto Rico Subject: New Subscriber in California Subject: New Subscriber from California Subject: New Subscriber - From Australia! Subject: New Mailing List for Indoor/Conservatory Plants Subject: CRFG Direction? Special Interest Groups on the Internet [If everyone who is a member of CRFG and who reads this newsletter would send me an email stating that you are a member, then I could send future CRFG information exclusively to members.] --------------------------------------- A new subscriber recently told me how much it would help to have every writer mention WHERE they lived in EVERY issue of RFNO. That it is important to know the location, in order to know whether the writer lives in a similar climate zone to that of the reader. I guess those of us who have been around from the beginning of the newsletter pretty much know who lives where, but there are a lot of new subscribers struggling with back issues, and they don't have that insight. I'd suggest that you try to remember to include information about where you live, but readers should feel free to contact you to ask for more information, since they have your address. Two bits of information I found interesting, to pass along: Paul Thomson had poor luck growing Neem on its own root, but when he grafted it onto China Berry (Melia Azedarach) it grew very well. It grew much more vigorously when grafted. When you encounter insects you want to eliminate, such as Africanized bees, or wasps, or any insect, a spray of soap solution at dilution of 1/2 cup per gallon of water will kill all sprayed insects within one minute! Much more effective than any insect spray. Information came from a speaker at the recent Fruit Festival. --------------------------------------------- Moshe sent a fax containing more information about the new Israeli Pitanga: Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 05:18:12 -0800 Subject: 'GITIT' A NEW SURINAM CHERRY CULTIVAR 'GITIT' A NEW SURINAM CHERRY CULTIVAR By E. Lahav and E. Slor Dept. of Horticulture, Agric. Res. Organization The Volcani Center, Bet Dagan, Israel ORIGIN: The Surinam cherry or Pitanga - Eugenia uniflora L. (E. micheii Lam.), originates in the coastal region of Brazil, South America. The fruit is being collected in forests and is much appreciated. From its native home it was carried by the Portuguese to most of the tropical and subtropical countries. Pitanga is being grown in many regions in backgrounds and as hedges. Commercial plantations exist mostly in Brazil. In the United States, its culture is limited to Florida and California. Pitanga is usually a broad compact shrub, but in Brazil it sometimes becomes a small tree up to 8m. in height. The foliage is deep green and somewhat glossy, the new growth being of rich wine-color. The branchlets are thin, the leaves ovate in outline acuminate at the apex and rounded at the base. The small white flowers are in large groups. Flowering season is during all spring and summer months. The fruit is oblate in form, eight ribbed, about 25mm. in diameter and deep red color when fully ripe. The flesh is soft, juicy and with aromatic sub-acid flavor. Usually there is one large round seed, but sometimes two hemispherical ones. Fruit harvested unripe does not ripen well and therefore should be harvested when fully mature. Fruit reaching this state of ripening drops almost immediately, which is one of the major problems in the cultivation of this species. The Pitanga succeeds both in tropical and subtropical climate. It is somewhat sensitive to frost. The flowers are very sensitive to hot spells. During the fruit growing season the tree demands constant water supply, more than most other fruit trees. It is possible that the low fruit-set is connected to low air humidity. The Pitanga grows well in many soils, especially in heavy waterlogged areas. In calcareous soils, Pitanga suffers from iron chlorosis. Pitanga fruits are rich in acids, sugars, and pectin. Their uses are numerous. As a fresh fruit it is delicious. The fruits are also used for alcoholic drink and for jelly with distinctive flavor for sherbet and syrup. 'Gitit' seedling was selected in backyard in Haharia, northern Israel. It was grafted and compared to three other commercial cultivars: 'Necha', 'Lolita', and '404'. Gitit was found to be superior to all of them. Description: Canopy is dense, the flush being bright red. The fruit is round but somewhat pearshaped. The peel is almost smooth. Fruit weight varies according to the yield from 5 to 12g. In years of heavy yield the fruit is quite small. Seed is 18% of total weight. Fruit color is blood red. The taste varies from sweet-sour to sour-sweet in contrast to the other sour cultivars. It tends to be more sour in heavy soils. The flesh is firm to juicy according to the stage of ripening. Flavor is very mild in contrast to all other cultivars with strong-sharp flavor. 'Gitit' is relatively sweeter than other Pitanga cultivars. With 'Gitit' the grower has the option of harvesting the fruit up to three days before maturity. Shelf-life is three days and storage duration in domestic refrigerators in two weeks. 'Gitit' is adapted to all types of soils except those highly calcareous. In very heavy soils after a rainy winter, production is very low. A few small commercial plots have been planted in various parts of Israel. ------------------------------------------------- Note: I have been very impressed with the 'Vermillion' pitanga. It doesn't fall off the tree as readily as any of the others. It's orange-red when ripe, and, even when not quite fully ripe, lacks the wild taste that most others have. The size is quite large, sometimes containing two seeds. I have one seedling with dark red fruit that is delicious inside, but the skin is not so pleasant. Leo. -------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:25:41 -0500 From: moshe Subject: Moshe's Returning to Israel But Available As Consultant Hi Leo! In April 98 I will finish a 3 years contract with 'fruit international' as the agronomist, farms manager and packing house manager of the company. Fruits International is the biggest mango farm in the USA. The company owns 1,500 acres of mangoes and a big packing house. Last season the company exported to Europe and the USA 2.35 million boxes of mangoes. It's the only company in the world that has mangoes available 8-9 months a year. I have the knowledge and experience in forcing of flowering in mangoes, advanced methods of mango cultivation, control of diseases and insects, post harvest treatment. etc. I also have good experience in Litchi growing (I did my masters degree on the Litchi). I plan to go back to Israel but I will be available for consulting. As a consulting service to commercial growers, I charge them for air fare and accommodation, and a consulting fee which is on a daily basis. Moshe Nadler ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 06:39:33 -0400 From: Ricky Maseda Subject: tissue culture for beginners? Just read your message on banana tissue culture in Rare Fruit News Online. I know people are doing this at home and I wonder if you could recommend any books or articles to help me get started. I know the equipment and supplies are expensive but that's ok if I can grow the plants. My background is in electronics - not biology. Is this something an average person could do at home? I grow lots of bananas here and when I get a mutant it would be nice to clone it. I have 10-15 super dwarfs but dont care for the fruit. My favorites are Ice Creme & Apple. Sincerly yours, Ricky Maseda Tampa, Florida ---------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:25:20 PDT From: Doron Kletter Subject: Information Sought: RHEEDIA Various Hi Leo, Would it be possible for you to forward me more of the back issues? I find some of the content to be very relevant and valuable to me. I think I may already have the July 1997 issues and forward. I was offered a plant called 'Madrone' (my spelling) that was described to me as some sort of RHEEDIA, a Mangosteen relative. I believe it is native to Equador. I was told it is quite hardy and has good quality fruit too. Attached below is what I could find from the CRFG plant descriptions. I would like to know more about it. Can it be sucessfully grown in CA? Do you or anyone have more information or personal experience to share? Is it worth trying? Any information will be greatly appreciated. RHEEDIA ARISTATA A shrub or small tree from the West Indies, quite cold hardy (to 32 deg F). An extremely attractive ornamental resembling a holly, it has dark, glossy green leaves with a hard spiny tip. The small, yellow fruit has white, slightly sweet pulp with 1-2 large seeds. Propagated by seed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RHEEDIA BRASILIENSIS - Bakupari, Pacura This excellent landscape tree, native to Rio de Janeiro, is evergreen and slow growing. The plum-sized, sharply pointed, oval fruit has a tough orange skin surrounding white, translucent flesh of subacid flavor that contains two seeds. It is eaten fresh or in preserves and jams. Propagated by seed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RHEEDIA LATERIFLORA - Wild mammee This small evergreen tree from tropical America is the source of hard wax. The fruit varies in size from a plum to a small orange. It has a firm yellow rind and soft, white, sub-acid pulp with 1-2 seeds. Propagated by seed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RHEEDIA MACROPHYLLA - Charichuela, Bacury-Pary A small, slow-growing evergreen tree from South America. Fruit is small, yellow, with a firm, bumpy rind and a soft, white, subacid pulp with 1-2 seeds. It is eaten fresh. Propagated by seed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ RHEEDIA MADRUNO - Madrono A small, handsome evergreen tree, native to Columbia and Panama, with fruit very similar to R. macrophylia. Propagated by seed. -- Doron -- ------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 03:26:36 -0700 From: Chris Schweinhard Subject: RFNO - Sounds Interesting My name is Chris Schweinhard, I live in Oxnard, California and am interested in growing rare fruit. Yesterday I purchased Cherimoya and Papaya trees. They are in one gallon pots and I'm going to put them in some large pots to start with and transplant them in spring. I also have a question about Blood Oranges. The tree I planted seems to have sprouted a rather large section with spikes which are 1-1/2" long. It appears different than the rest of the tree. The rest of the tree has spikes, but they are smaller. Any comments? I am interested in getting the samples of your publication. Please send them. You asked about my growing experience. I'm not very adept at gardening. I normally grow tomatoes, squash and onions. I do have an apple tree that is very prolefic. Two years ago, I planted a blood orange tree and it is growing well, but hasn't produced any fruit. Today I transplanted a Papaya (baraca) 2', Kumquat 1', Cherimoya 3' and one of those plants they makes lays from (the name escapes me) 2'. I've put everything but the papaya in 4 gallon containers to transport to the garage if it gets too cold. The papaya is in a 6 gallon container. They were placed in a south faciang location where they will get sun from 11:00 am on. The soil mix is 1/3 cactus mix, 1/3 Azale mix and 1/3 ground coconut husk. I also covered the top with the coconut husk material for moisture retention. I then gave them a shot of vitamin B-1. My back yard has automatic sprinklers and I am keeping them away by placing them on a redwood deck. What do you think? When I transplant them, I will have to reconfigure the sprinklers. Look forward to hearing from you. My e-mail is Cswine@IX.Netcom.com. Thank you Chris ---------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 22:36:59 -0400 (EDT) From: LaBedouin@aol.com Subject: Am interested in growing anything Hello, my name is Bernadette. I am from Michigan and have just taken up growing whatever I can in any way I can from whatever seeds I may find. I guess I have just begun attempts to grow my first "rare" fruit, a mango and would like to know what's best for them. As far as other fruit, I tried growing strawberries and a pear, but those were killed by spider mites I do believe. I also have a grapefruit growing from seed and a dwarf lemon growing from a cutting. I guess tomatoes are also considered fruit, nothing exciting, but my cherry tomato plant has been grown hydroponically on my office desk. I would love to get information on new things to grow and places to purchase seeds, so please add me to your list. Thank you. Bernadette Raymundo ------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:56:35 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: New Subscriber in Florida Dear Leo: Already been e-mailed by some subscriber-enthusiasts in my area. Thanks. Can you get me some back issues? Has anyone in So. Florida had experience with the "Dorman" raspberry or the "Southern Home" muscadine/bunch grape hybrid? Both are distributed by Chestnut Hill Nursury through Home Depot. Any info would be apprieciated. As suggested by one of your subscribers, I am experimenting with Blueberries (cv "Sharpeblue") in mycorrhizal fungi. Thanks for the suggestion. For me it is a challange. My soil pH is high. We'll see.I have learned from a Univ of FL experiment station near Immockolee, to also plant them in a bed where you have worked in about an inch of compost and piled about 4 inches pine bark mulch on top. Russ. ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 08:54:11 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Re: grafting white sapote Russell D. Kaplan wrote: > > Dear John- > > About grafting white sapote, I have used the side veneer graft with some > success. I am told the plant is very easy to graft and forgiving. Good Luck, Russ Kaplan, near Miami, FL, USA [Note: Maybe grafting sapote is easier in Florida, but in S. California, I have had poor success unless grafting during early Spring, usually March. I have better success even with mangoes than white sapote. What have you observed? Leo] ------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 15:31:04 PDT From: kletter@IMPACT.Xerox.COM (Doron Kletter) To: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Mango for the (San Francisco) Bay Area? Hi Don, I am trying to grow Mango outdoors in San Mateo. I've heard stories about a mature bearing mango tree that lived for years and years in Santa Clara somewhere, outdoors and unprotected as I understand it. But, unfortunately, it was never propogated and the tree perished in the great frost of 1972 (73? or is it 74?). The source of this story, I was told, is attributed to John Riley. If the story is true, then apparently there is genetic potential in mango to survive our climate. Would you happen to know of anyone who has succedded? What cultivars would you consider most suitable? -- Doron -- ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 17:06:07 PDT From: kletter@IMPACT.Xerox.COM (Doron Kletter) Subject: Add Pictures To RFNO? Leo, I have access to scanners at home, and I guess I could scan pictures if the members feel they have some to share. If the number is not too overwhelming, I could probably get it done within a couple of days. We would have to establish a method for getting the pictures over to me and then mailing it back (SASE envelope?) Let me know if you feel it is time for RFNO to have more than just plain text. -- Doron -- ------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 13:14:55 PDT To: moshe@coqui.net From: Doron Kletter Subject: Mango from cuttings, Logan, Pitanga Hi Moshe, In one of the recent RFNO issues I noticed you mentioned you have successfully rooted Turpentine mango cuttings. I'd like to learn more about it. I have tried it before and the cuttings have always failed to root. A major problem for me is the timing. Mango seeds do not last very long, and by the time fruit is becoming readily available in the stores (august to september), a large portion of the "hot & dry" season is already over. This makes it difficult to ensure optimum growth conditions for the young seedlings, and some don't make it over winter. I also have a Longan tree that has never fruited as yet, despite all the tender love and care. I live in Sam Mateo, CA, (near San Francisco) where winter chill is usually not a problem. I would greatly appriciate any articles you may have regarding this and the Longan. As you may have already guessed from my name, I can take it in Hebrew as well. I am also interested in the Pitanga you described. -- Doron -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 18:25:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Dodgson Subject: More Website Links To Explore Hi Just a quick email to give you a link you may or may not already have: the Miami Subtropical Horticulture Research Station. The link is: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/site.pl?MIA They currently have 273 different varieties in storage. List of mango accessions kept: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/tax_acc.pl?23351 I guess you could ask for some seed. The first email address: MIA@ars-grin.gov doesn't work. Try the second and maybe you'll get lucky. I asked for some chile seed at another US GRIN site a couple of months ago, and I am still waiting for the care package. Bye Mark Dodgson ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 09:29:42 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Request back issues AND Australian Newsletter Info Dear Leo The more I read, the more I want. Could you send me some pre-Sept. 1997 back issues? I would greatly appreciate it. Could you recommend that more of your subscribers list their region in all messages? It helps put their experiences in context. To Sainarong Rasananda regarding Australian and Israeli web-sites on tropical fruits, have you discovered this site: The Australian New Crops newsletter is at: http://www.uq.edu.au/~gagkrego/newslett/1-newslt.htm Russ Kaplan, near Miami, FL USA ---------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 19:17:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Dodgson Subject: Communicate Real Time Via Internet Chat Hi Leo Perhaps some of your list might be interested to communicate real time via internet chat at this garden place: http://www.garden.com/cgi-bin/v2/gechat/ Bye Mark Dodgson --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 02:54:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Robert Wagner" Subject: BANANA Rhizomes vs Seeds Unfortunately it is difficult to send rhizomes through international mail. If I had seed (which is easier to get through international agricultural inspections), I would send you Musa basjoo, which is occassionally grown in your country and in fact is root-hardy there. It bears small, edible bananas with seeds. Mine was purchased from a fellow who grows them up in Vancouver, Canada, at about the same latitude as southern England. He gets fruit on his, but they get more sun than mine! It is mentioned in "Trees and Shrubs Hardy in the British Isles", but the text says that it eventually dies out at Kew. My suspicion is that the gardners there may have tried to shelter it, but in fact it should be grown in an open, sunny spot. Also, it needs lots of water and likes rich soil. I wrap the pseudotrunk in burlap for the winter to get mine to maximal size, but it will grow back from the ground if it freezes all the way back. Unlike many hardyish versions of tropical plants, this one is no disappointment. It looks fully as lush and tropical as Musa paradisiaca. Its remarkable vigor despite cool summers and high latitudes is perhaps its most distinguishing characteristic. In the UK, try Burncoose & South Down Nurseries, Gwenapp, Redruth, Cornwall TR16 6BJ. Robert ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:03:17 -0800 From: the ancient mariner To: moshe Subject: leaf analysis I have been carefully re-reading all the articles and mails I have on leaf analysis. I now think that I understand leaf analysis a little bit better. Please correct me if I am wrong (which I am sure I am in many areas). Leaf analysis should be done every month for a year, because the amount of nutrients change from month to month, from season to season. When the data for the whole year are available, the agronomist can then study the data, and decide what fertilisers are needed for the next year. To be able to do this, the leaf nutrient standards for the particular fruit tree must be available. A reliable standard for longan, however, is probably not yet available. It foolows that leaf analysis, at present, is not particularly helpful for longan, as more data are needed. In other words, leaf analysis helps you to do a one-year fertiliser requirement plan. Leaf analysis is probably not so useful in correcting short-term nutrient requirements (here I am rather confused). Leaf analysis is probably not helpful in getting longan (which has a habit of flowering every two years) to flower for the current year - what I am trying to say is that leaf analysis offers a long-term solution and not an instant solution to the biennial flowering problem of longan. One last question. What is the difference between petiole sap testing and dried tissue leaf analysis? Sainarong Rasananda -------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 11:30:14 +0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Local Fruits in Thailand in October Thought some of you might like to know what fruits are in season in Thailand right now. Here they are. Name Market Price Remarks US$/kg Rose Apple 1.oo middle of season Guava 0.80 end of season Tangerine 0.70 middle of season Langsat 1.20 beginning of season (technical name - lansium domesticum corr.) There are more fruits, but I cannot find them at the market I visited. Sainarong ------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 21:24:35 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: sainaron@ksc9.th.com Subject: Re: Local Fruits in Thailand in October Is this a change of address? I had your email address as sainaron@samart.co.th How are Rose Apple fruit eaten in Thailand? Fresh out of hand? That's how I eat them here. Do you have the seedless guavas there? That's one I'd like to sometime get. Do the seedless ones come both as pink flesh and white? Interesting.... Leo ------------------------------------------- From: "Jeff Earl" Subject: Reply to Banana Question Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 11:41:02 -0700 ---------- > From: ajmay@epix.net > Date: Wednesday, October 01, 1997 8:15 AM > > Hi Jeff - > > I live in New York (about an hour and a half north of the city). I > bought a dwf Banana Tree about four years ago. I grow it indoors > and it was doing wonderfully. I transplanted it to a larger pot in > May and again it did fine. Well, just in July or August the leaves > and stalk started turning brown. At the same time, a new banana > tree started growing from the base. I now only have three leaves > left on my original plant and those are almost dead. The new plant > seems to be doing fine. It is about 10" tall. (The original plant > is about 2' tall). > Did I do something wrong? Is there anything I can do to help save > the original plant? Is the new plant draining the original plant? > It has been cool lately, but our house usually doesn't get under 65 > degrees, and > it has never had a problem with this in the past. It is in a sunny > corner on the south side window of our house. Do you think I could > have overwatered it? There was a point in time where I noticed the > tray that the pot sits on had water in it, so I held back on the > watering for a while. > I would appreciate any help you can give me. I don't know if you > can answer any or all of these questions, but I am very sad about my > tree. It is one of my favorite plants. Thanks for your time. > Angela May Hi Angela, Since I cant see your Banana tree I would have to guess as to what its problem is. Based on what you are telling me ....I would say that you have been over watering. Usually this causes root die back then leaf die back. This is the most common ailment houseplants get. Bananas are quite drought tolerant. Once, I uprooted a young tree and toss it in a trash pile. With out soil or water for 3 months the plant sprang back to life once I placed it in a pot with soil and water. I would transplant your current plant into fresh potting soil, water it lightly, then only water it when the soil is dry. The pot will be light...as opposed to heavy when it is full of water. Good luck...... Jeff Earl Modesto, CA ---------------------------------------------------- Subject: Mangos--Glenn Mangoes, Sugar Apple Ain't Bad Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 19:45:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Daniel K. Duprey" I sure envy those of you in California whose mangos are just ripening. In Florida our season was early and disappointing this year. My usually reliable Keitt had a small crop, and between the ducks and the neighbors, the last one disappeared by mid-August. It would be great if California developed a large mango industry (and shipped to Florida). The mangos we get in the supermarket, from South America and the islands, are pretty awful. Usually sad little Tommy Atkins that were picked before they were even full-grown. I kind of agree with you about the flavor of Glenn mangos, Leo. Very good but not as richly flavored as some. One of my relatives, who has tasted many fine mangos, though, rates Glenn as the best she's ever had. I think of Glenn as a fine "beginner" mango, since it doesn't have some of the more exotic, "too tropical" overtones that some people find a bit much. I also like Glenn because it never seems to have some of the problems that can characterize my other favorites. For example, off flavors from jelly seed/soft nose, or over-ripeness. Of course, taste is always subjective. I have yet to taste a Valencia Pride that tasted anywhere near as good as the one described in the last newsletter. And I really enjoy sugar apples, despite their lack of a sub-acid flavor. I'm wondering if anyone on the list is familiar with the mangos grown in Puerto Rico. A friend of mine vacationed there the last week of September and said he tasted a mango that was the sweetest he's ever had. I've seen a picture that partly showed it. It was a good size, maybe 1 1/2 to 2 lbs. with good coloring, mostly pink overtones over yellow. Any ideas on what it might have been? Also, is it normal for there to still be mangos available this late in the season. I thought that Puerto Rico was warmer than Florida and would have an earlier season rather than a later one, but.... Here's hoping for a dry, mild winter and an early spring. Dan Duprey --------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 06 Oct 1997 06:14:27 -0500 From: moshe Subject: Season of Mangoes in Puerto Rico Leo Manuel wrote: Moshe, do you know what mango Dan is talking about? Hi Leo! First we have mangoes here from march to the end of September, even middle of October. At the end of the season there is only keitt. It gets a good color and when it's ripe the part that was green, becomes yellow. Those keitts are usually kept a month on the tree before picking and when they ripe they taste very good. We grow also Parvin, Irvin, Haden, Tommy, Austeen, Palmer etc. but none of them is available in this time of the year. It is warm here but we can control flowering, so, for example we can supply big quantities of keitt from march to October without a problem. Right now we have Irvins with fruitlets and Keitts with flowers. Already in December we have Irvins but they are sold as unripen mangos for southeast Asian in the USA. Sincerely Moshe ----------------------------------------------- From: Robert Allen Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 15:41:24 -0700 Subject: New Subscriber in California Leo-- I live in Los Altos Hills, California, which borders on Los Altos, Palo Alto, and Cupertino. I am growing the following fruits, some of which may be called rare: Figs (20 or so varieties) Quinces Loquats Lychees Mulberries Pluots Blood Oranges Limes (including Kaffir) Lemons (including variegated pink) Mandarins Kumquats Grapefruit Hardy Kiwis Grapes Pluots Asian Pears Medlars May Haws Bob ------------------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 00:01:42 -0700 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: New Subscriber from California Hi, I live in Oxnard, Ventura Co. I am interested in Jack Fruit tree. Is the tree itself big and how long it usually take to bare fruit? Will it grow in my area and where would I get one. I also like to be in your newsletter. Best Regard, chamnain ---------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 00:52:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mark Dodgson Subject: New Subscriber - From Australia! Hi Please add my name to your Rare Fruit News Online newsletter, and if possible would you please send me a couple of previous newsletters to mull over while the next one comes along. I live 7 kilometers from the city of Melbourne in an area nicknamed the "windy city": we have very strong gusts of wind around here! I guess you could say I live in the inner suburbs of Melbourne. Melbourne is a coastal city. Just in case you were wondering, the average temperatures in Melbourne are: Winter mean min temp 5.3 degrees C(41.5 F), mean max temp 13.4 degrees C(56.1 F), Summer mean min temp 12.7 degrees C(54.8 F), mean max temp 25.2 degrees C(77.3 F). I have been growing rare chiles for years now: anything not called "cayenne" is considered a rare chile here. I started my rare fruit growing 18 months back because I was sick of the prices of limes and in love with the combination of limes, tomatoes, chiles, and cilantro: at the time limes were over a dollar each for a small Tahitian lime. At the time I didn't mind the odd margherita, so I bought myself a Rangpur lime graft which had a number of young fruit on it. A few months later I found a book about growing avocadoes in our temperate Melbourne climate. So I had to have some avocado grafts. I was finally able to find some avocado grafts in Melbourne at the start of our Autumn this year. Then I bought a book on growing warm climate fruits because it was on special. I just loved the pictures of mangoes, lychees, avocadoes. I then found the CRFG online and read their fruit facts on mangoes and lychees and thought I would try growing them in pots in our temperate climate. A few months later I joined the CRFG. Now everytime I go to my local garden nursery I head straight for the sub-tropical/tropical fruit section that is surprisingly well stocked. That may be hard for the other Australians on the list to believe, because whenever Victorians go "up north" they laugh at what is politely called a "Victorian suntan": pale white legs. My current passion is mangoes: because they told me I can't grow them here of course. I had to have the R2E2 and Florigon mangoes brought in from the next state. Apparently the R2E2 mango is bred from Bowen and Kent, and is either Mono-embryonic or Poly-embryonic (how that is I don't know). It is a very large fruited (up to 1 kg), late ripening fruit. I bought the R2E2 variety because the guy said it is vigorous and tolerates the cooler range of mango growing climates. I would be interested in swapping some Aussie Kensington Pride mango seeds for some Thomson or other local polyembryonic varieties with either yourself or other members of your list. We have just started our mango eating season and Kensington Pride is the main variety on sale. I don't know if it's the same where you live, but here people tend to go a little mango crazy this time of year at the produce markets. Not content to buy one or two mangoes, the vendors usually have a price marked by the box full, as well as the individual price. Last summer I was lucky enough to find a cheap glass house. It was bought around 20 years ago and was still in it's boxes. It is a small 8' x 6'. It's not huge, but I guess beggars can't be choosers. Here is the list of fruit I am currently growing (most of them are on the verandah in pots as can be seen at my web page): Apple Cox's Orange Pippin - 40cm pot Winter '97 Avocado: Bacon - 40 cm pot Winter '97 Fuerte - 40 cm pot Winter '97 Hass - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Reed - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Rincon - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Wurtz - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Lemon Eureka - 40 cm pot Spring '96 Lime KaffKaffir - 40cm pot Winter '96 Rangpur - 50cm pot Autumn '96 Tahitian - 40cm pot Spring '96 West Indian - 40cm pot Winter '97 Loquat Unknown variety- 40cm pot Autumn '97 Lychee Bosworth 3 - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Mango Florigon - 40cm pot Winter '97 R2E2 - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Peach Trixzee Pixzee (dwarf) - 30cm pot Autumn '97 Sapote Black Sapote (Maher) - 40cm pot Autumn '97 White Sapote (Golden Globe) - 40cm pot Autumn '97 Mark Dodgson ------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 10:10:46 -0700 (MST) From: Eddie Armstrong Subject: New Mailing List for Indoor/Conservatory Plants I like to grow indoor/conservatory plants and I have started a mailing list for them for my own hobby (I have no commercial interest in plants other than spending half my wages on them:-). I live in the UK but the list is open to all and already includes members from the U.S., Sweden and GB. The group discusses all aspects of growing conservatory and indoor plants and keeping a conservatory. If anybody would like to join you're welcome! (There will be very few emails to begin with as this list is brand new - so please contribute your own topics :-). To Subscribe: Address : majordomo@UserHome.com Body: subscribe conservatory_plants You will be asked to confirm - just hit 'reply' quoting the original confirmation message and you're on. Eddie ------------------------ LIST: hoya_si@UserHome.com LIST ENQUIRIES: Eddie_PDL@eddiea.demon.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------- Unless you're a member of CRFG, the following will be of little, if any interest. Even if you are a member, you may not be interested. It's a continuation of the dialogue began last issue by Bob Chambers. If everyone who is a member of CRFG and who reads this newsletter would send me an email stating that you are a member, then I could send this information exclusively to members. ------------------------------------------------------ Subject: CRFG & Special Interest Groups on the Internet (Continued) Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:14:11 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Subject: Special Interest Groups on the Internet After postulating the increase of special interest groups using the internet, the following example came floating in yesterday. Clytia will answer the email and I will call Mr. Johnson to get whatever information about the process I can. I think it is interesting to contemplate what this fellow faces and how we could help. One type of help is obvious -- we could publish a directory of such special interest groups in the magazine so that people could know of them and where to find them. Perhaps we could help with the technical parts of the process for people who are gardeners but not facile with computers. We could also perhaps arrange a mechanism to do double sided printing and mailing for groups that want to include people who do not have computers. I could visualize this as a sort of printing service to which the special interest group would email their message and address list -- for a fee of course. The message is: Subject: Fruit Gardener Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 12:52:39 -0400 (EDT) From: DJohn37@aol.com Dear Clytia Chambers - A friend of mine who subscribes to Fruit Gardener (Dominique Irvine) told me that there is an article in the current issue by John Luard about "The Cultivation of Bactris gasipaes (Pejibaye) for Hearts of Palm in Costa Rica." Is it possible to purchase a copy of that issue? I am trying to organize a Palm Heart Interest Group on the internet and am gathering names of individuals who are actively involved with the subject Many thanks. Dennis Johnson --------------------- One more note from me. I was very pleased to get a response to my little essay from Don Gholston, quite quickly, and I compliment him on reacting so quickly with a thoughtful analysis. I don't have it in front of me, but my recollection was that Don's point of view was that the present method of operation of CRFG was basically satisfactory to him, and he felt no impulse to go ranging out into some other field. I think this is a perfectly reasonable response from Don, and perhaps most of the other members of the board. After all if the organization were not doing about what we would like it to, why would we be spending our time on the board anyway. Don is probably not only a representative of the heart of our organzation, with standard interests, but he is putting a lot of time in on this and doing an outstanding job. However, change does come. We don't all have to embrace it, but we are probably better off to go along with it if it is in a direction we approve of. Maybe we know of some members who are not in the old heart of the CRFG interest pattern, and maybe we would approve of what they want to do. Should we not then consider helping them do it using the assets that this organization has accumulated -- mostly people assets. It is also true that many of these other kinds of special interests such as sustainable agriculture have been initiated in areas outside of fruit. We have people who can bring an interest in and knowlege of fruit, and perhaps vegetables, to such activities, which may be oriented around grains and animals at the moment. Bob Chambers ------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 20:01:59 -0700 From: "Robert R. Chambers" Leo Manuel wrote: > > Bob, I think your instincts are right here, but I have a suggestion. > > IF there is a database of CRFG members who also have email, you could > contact all (or a part of them who had been in the organization for > some particular minimum number of years) with the arguments for and > against various proposals. If no such database exists, I'd acquire > one posthaste. Perhaps it could be done with some modifications to > the CRFG website? People could be directed there and told to leave > their email addresses. I think such a database would be a useful > device to get quick responses about lots of different things. > > Yours, > Leo Thanks Leo. Sounds like a very important piece of information to get. I gather we were going to print some more membership application forms, which would have had that on it, but this has been postponed. For sure we ought to be getting this from new members. The old members are tougher, perhaps. I imagine a lot of our members don't bother to visit our site very much, so an announcement there might not get to a lot of members. An announcement in the Fruit Gardener would also be a route. Perhaps we could get people to ask for email addresses at the local chapter meetings and in the local chapter newsletters. In any case the website sounds like the right place to collect the email addresses. What say the rest of you? Bob --------------------------------------------------- From: "Emory R. Walton Jr." Subject: Re: Special Interest Groups on the Internet Hello All, I also like the idea of the database of Email addresses, and we should be certain that the new accounting/membership program that is being prepared has a field for Email addresses as well, and we should add the question to the new membership applications, which I believe we had already said that we were going to do. Emory >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - November 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 11/15/97 22 Here's a subject list of topics in this issue: Some of us will find the air-layering "How To" article to be *really* what we need. Subject: New subscriber - North Carolina Subject: Rose Apple Interest for CA New Subscriber Subject: Help! Where To Find Pictures of Exotic Fruit?? Subject: New Subscriber From Florida Subject: New Subscriber - From LONDON! Check Out HIS News List! Subject: New Subscriber From Perth, Australia! Subject: banana trees fruiting in San Antonio Subject: Another New Subscriber From Florida-Asks: Longans? Subject: Longans vs Lychees Subject: Mango in Thailand Subject: Re: Mango in Thailand Subject: Leo's Mango seedlings that have died Subject: Re: Mango seedlings that have died Subject: Ken's Red Kiwi Subject: Re: Ken's Red Kiwi Subject: Xa-Li Guava, Longans, Subject: Kiew-sa-voy (mango) & Xa-Li (guava) Subject: lost lychees newsletter Subject: Questions & Answers Via Back Issues of RFNO Subject: Help Me Find Curculigo latefolia Subject: Changing my Email Address Subject: King Lychee? Where To Find? Subject: Ataulfo: New mango variety Subject: Ataulfo is polyembryonic Subject: Longans vs Lychees Subject: Ataulfo mango Revisited Subject: Lychee Wouldn't Grow Subject: Girdling to improve graft "takes"? Subject: RE: girdling to improve grafting Subject: your site-super!! Subject: Here's How To Do Lychee Airlayering Subject: longan; Correspondence Between Moshe And Jack Subject: Spanish-English-Latin Commodity Reference With Botanical Names ---------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 01:46:16 -0500 (EST) From: Steve & Missy Kennedy Subject: New subscriber - North Carolina Hi Leo, My name is Steve Kennedy, I live in North Carolina ( zone 7b) Near Raleigh. We have hot summers and cool wet winters. I grow bananas, (root hardy here) Loquat, Hardy kiwis. Citrus in pots. I would like to try some of the hardy citrus. I love pushing my zone and growing plants that are different. I'm a real plant nut and like to trade too. This looks like a great newsletter, that I would like to be a part of. Anyone out there know of any rare fruits hardy to zone 7b that I could try? "Green is great, fruit is better" Steve --------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 01:45:00 -0800 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong Subject: Rose Apple Interest for New Subscriber Hi Leo, I live in Oxnard Ca. I would like to subscribe. The more I read the newsletter, the more interested I am. Please forward the earlier issues if you have them available. I do not have experience in gardening. I bought a house last year and planted the fruit trees w/o amendment or till the soil at all. How dumb, huh? Therefore, my soil is practically all sand filled by the builder w/ river bottoms. My neighbors said that under this 3 feet deep "sand", laying a very good agriculture soil since it used to be a corn field. So much for my soil. I have: 5 fuyu persimmon(our family love it), one longan kohala, one litchee, one boysenberry, one Hass Avocado, one permaganet, three Xy-ly guava(w/ lots of fruits). The fuyus and litchee are doing terrible,just don't know why. I'm Thai and I love tropical Thai fruits. I read that you have Rose Apple growing, is it easy to grow,and how big the tree gets. Is it fruiting easy if only one tree is planted. Is it vulnerable to insect here(lots of worms inside fruits in Thailand)? How and where would I obtain a plant? chamnain ------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 00:02:12 -0800 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong Subject: Help! Where To Find Pictures of Exotic Fruit?? Wish there area pictures of the fruits mentioned in the news... Is there a site I could look up for these exotics? Thank You Cham. -------------------------------------------- From: Waweise Schmidt (sl450@webtv.net) Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:16:01 -0500 Subject: New Subscriber From Florida It was good to hear from you leo. I am enclosing the information that you requested in this letter. 1. I live in Riviera Beach, Florida 2. My husband and I are novice fruit growers but we have acquired several kinds of bananas, a jaboticaba, loquat, other citrus, lychee, jakfruit, macadamia, passion fruit and papaya. Waweise ----------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 00:09:53 +0000 To: Leo Manuel From: Eddie Armstrong Subject: New Subscriber - From LONDON! Check Out His News List Leo I would like to join details below: Will you be joining my list? >1. Where do you live? In or near what city? London, England >2. What experience have had in growing "rare fruit" growing? And, what >do you want to grow? Limited Experience. Want to grow Citrus and some others. thank you Eddie LIST: conservatory_plants@UserHome.com LIST ENQUIRIES: Eddie_PDL@eddiea.demon.co.uk --------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Nov 1997 00:48:55 +0800 From: Clement Teng Subject: New Subscriber From Perth, Australia Hi, my name is Clement. I live in perth, Western Australia. I grow the following trees at my backyard: custard apple (cherimoya), guava, grapes(3), oranges(2), mango (bowen), plumcot, plum (mariposa), peach (double jewel), lychee, longan, banana and passimon (fuyu ). I'll would appreciate information on lychee, longan (not doing well despite all the tender loving care) and plumcot with only a handful of fruit despite having a pollinator (mariposa). At the moment i use drip system to water my trees (15 minute every day in the morning )and additional 20 liter of hand water each (tropical trees only) in the evening. The soil PH is around 6.5 and lots of cow and sheep manure. On top of that i make an effort to chat with everyone of them everyday and yet i can't convince them to grow. Maybe you guys might be able to help me. Thats all for the time being. Bye Clement Teng Note: Clement, plumcots seem to be notorious as being shy bearers. Leo --------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 31 Oct 1997 22:13:37 -0600 From: benson Subject: banana trees fruiting in San Antonio I have several banana groves, one of the groves has produced a flower stalk and formed some bananas. How long does it usually take for the bananas to ripen? So far 10 small green bananas have formed at the top. I live just south of San Antonio, texas, our last frost was in january. These banana patches survived a 19 degree hard freeze back in december 18th 1996. 8 stalks in 2 patches surived this freeze, and the patches regrew very fast in the spring and summer to about 20 feet tall. The leaves are very thick (because of the acquired cold hardiness). The ground never freezes in my area because the soil is sandy loam 20 miles southeast and south of san antonio to the coast. Adam ------------------------------------------- From: Kym(Javier Cubero) Subject: Another New Subscriber From Florida-Asks: Longans? Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 06:07:33 GMT What fun! I'm a member of the Orlando Tropical Fruit club. My name is Kym. I am growing bananas(piseng raja, zebrina, praying hands, jamaican red dwarf, manzanoes), guanabana, anon, hog plum, loquat, citrus(dancy tangerine, ponderosa lemon, myers lemon, calamondin, hamlin orange, and pineapple orange, key limes) pinapples, thai ginger, regular ginger, decorative gingers, mulberry tree, cinnamon tree, strawberry tree, bay tree, bay rum tree, macadamia tree, and herbs. This is great, I've been looking for some good tropical fruit sites and this is better! I was wondering if anyone knows the downside to Longan trees. I took out a lychee and I plan to put in a longan this spring. The lychee never thrived, and other people have said that they need a lot of specialty attention to produce fruit. This is really great! Kym ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 07:06:27 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: Kym(Javier Cubero) Subject: Longans vs Lychees Kym, Longan trees are easier to get good production. The fruit is not as attractive no quite as flavorful, but at least it comes pretty plentifully. I had a beautiful lychee (Kwi Mai) at my previous residence for about 12 years, and altogether, I probably got about a dozen beautiful and large lychee fruit. So an average of one per year isn't so great! A lot depends on the varieties involved. If you plant what others in your area are having good luck with, you're probably going to have success as well. My producing longan is Kohala. The seeds are larger with less flesh, but still, I get quite a bit of fruit. You know you can airlayer to reproduce both lychee and longan. I will attach the last issue of Rare Fruit News Online, and send future issues, beginning November 15. I'll put your letter there and you should get responses to your lychee/longan question from others as well. Leo ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 02:13:40 -0800 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong Subject: Mango in Thailand Hi, Speaking of mango, Thailand has at least 10 varieties. They are very unique and tasty in flavors. Some varieties have to be eaten before ripe to get the cruchy and sweet tastes, some must be eaten when fully ripe. Mango lovers, just visit Thailand in mid May, You will taste the most and many delicious mango varieties plus other tropical fruits, guarantee!!! My most favorite variety is crisp Kiew-sa-voy which should be eating before it ripes. It tastes so sweet and crispy with tons of tropical tastes. chamnain ---------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 22:53:51 -0800 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Mango in Thailand Leo Manuel wrote: > > Chamnain, is Kiew-sa-voy one that comes true to seed? (polyembryonic) > I'd like to find it to try growing it here in San Diego. > > I'll put your letter in the next issue of Rare Fruit News Online. > > Thanks! > Leo ------------- Hi Leo, I do not know so much about this Kiew-Sa-Voy. All I know about mangoes is Thailand is that they propagate by air-layering. Like this variety, there are lots varieties need to be eaten while they are not ripe. Believe me, nothing compare to Thai mangoes. I myself even want to grow, but could not bring the plant here due to the U.S.Customs. Since mango like hot and humid climate, I'm sure you could grow it in San Diego, if you could acquire one. Growing by seeds will not guarantee the quality of the fruits. Cham. ---------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:35:00 PST From: Doron Kletter Subject: Leo's Mango seedlings that have died Leo, Thank you for sending it again. It came in fine this time. As I was going over the previous RFNO issues, I noticed you were asking why did some of your mango seedlings died young. I am not sure I know from your brief description. I had good results with the following technique: Plant the seed as soon as it is taken out of the fruit (mango seed do not last long). I do not let it dry. I pry open the husk immediately take out the seed, remove as much of the brown seed coat as possible, and soak it well for a day or so in warm water. Discard any weak or deformed seeds. One important point to remember: seeds will not germinate if subject to cold temperatures, so *do not* chill the fruit for a long period. Even so, seed from a store bought fruit may have been exposed to cool temperatures while in storage or transit, so some seeds just won't germinate. Sometimes you can tell the damage if the seed has already sprouted inside. I do not plant seeds after mid-august, as they require a considerable growing period (several flushes) to establish, preferably under prolonged high temperatures and little humidity. I then wipe the seed dry, deep it in fungicide, and plant it. I place the seed almost level, hump side up or at an angle so that the plant grows straight up and does not form a knee. I use one gallon pots from the beginning, as mango seedlings quickly form a long taproot that will start looping on the bottom. Mango seeds need constant moisture, so you should never let the soil dry. On the other hand, the high level of moisture and temperature invite fungi and disease. To overcome, I use a "dual-layered" soil. I fill the container with "soil-less" growing media that has good drainage (such as 'Supersoil') to a depth of 3" from the ream. I then add a second (2-2.5" thick) layer of sterile peat moss above. Finally, the seed is planted on top slightly exposed. This way, the peat moss holds the moisture while the root can quickly penetrate into the coarser media and has room to grow. Place in a warm and bright location, but away from direct sun until the shoot emerges. When the shoot is about 3 inch tall, I carefully remove the wet peat moss except close to the root and replace with Supersoil. I also leave the (by now green) seed half exposed to prevent fungi attacks. I feed with fish emulsion at half the recommended rate monthly to gain max growth. I also spray with fungicide if there is a prolonged cloudy and humid period. Thru winter, I move the pots inside an (unheated) "greenhouse" (constructed from wood and plastic sheets) for protection. I do not really know if all of this is necessary, but it works for me. Last year all of my seedlings have made it. How about you? Do you do anything different? Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions, Doron San Mateo, CA, Zone 9, Sunset 16 --------------------------- Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 09:59:37 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: Doron Kletter Subject: Re: Leo's Mango seedlings that have died Thanks, Doron! I've been more sloppy because I've had lots of seeds. Sometimes I haven't been prompt in planting the seed after removing the fruit flesh. Even then, I've wrapped the husk and kernel in a moist paper towel until planted. I've noticed that my polyembryonic seeds seem to be less vigorous and more difficult to get to grow with much vigor, at least for the first year. The only possibly unnecessary step is dipping in warm water. At least, that's a step I've never heard of anyone doing. Thanks again! Leo ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:37:58 -0800 From: "Matthew A. Franzino" To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Ken's Red Kiwi Hi Leo, Yes I belong To CRFG. I noticed in your home page you have Kiwi. Have ever tried 'Kens Red'? I planted one this last spring, sure is vigorus. Also 2 new berries I planted last year are very tasty, Jostaberry and tayberry. Matthew Franzino ---------------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 15:50:49 +0000 To: franzino@pacbell.net Subject: Re: Ken's Red Kiwi Thanks, Matthew, for the information. The Kiwi I was referring to is the one carried in the supermarket, and is actually one of my least favorite fruit. At the place I lived before, it was the most productive plant on the premises, and it was so near the coast that there wasn't enough heat to sweeten them up. I have Ken's Red, I believe, but it isn't planted in a very good location. It's one of the Hardy Kiwis, and I don't know what its chill requirements are. I haven't had any frost in the 5 or 6 years I've lived here. Have you had fruit? I don't like berries with thorns because they won't stay put, and removing them gets more sore fingers than I care for. I do have several thornless blackberries that produce well and are delicious. Arapaho is the most productive by far. Navaho has a good reputation, but is very slow growing. Waldo is good, being less upright than the other two, however, and upright is rather nice. Then there's another one, new, LochNess maybe is its name, that hasn't borne yet. Till later, Leo -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 23:22:49 -0800 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong Subject: Xa-Li Guava, Longans, Hi Leo, Xa-Li is a variety of guavas. It has seeds but very meaty. Its meat is sweet and crisp. It could reach 1 1/2 lbs in Thailand. I do not know that mine will get that big since this is my first crop. It flowers in mid June and now the fruits are just a little bigger than golf ball size. I successfully air layered two more plants from the one I have. If by chance, the fruits get almost the size I mentioned earlier, I would mail you one to try. It get quite cold here, somehow, I doubt that the fruits will reach that size. Thanks for your invitation. Unfortunately I work everyday because I have my own business to take care. But I would love to see your home orchard especially your longan... Are the fruits big? There are lots of delicious varieties of longans as well in Thailand. So far all I got from you is the current Nov. issue. I read the news and got to the parts where some members were asking you for back issues. That was why I asked you for some like others asked. Cham. -------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 01:19:51 -0800 From: chamnain chongsathapornpong Subject: Kiew-sa-voy (mango) & Xa-Li (guava) Hi Leo, Thanks for the back issues. I did not have problem reading them. On one of the newsletter, you said that your daughter-in-law is Thai (Noy). Please ask her how good Kiew-sa-voy (mango) is. Xa-Li can be eaten fully ripe, but not preferrable. Best to eat when crisp. I had some the other day when high wind blew some undersized fruits off the tree and they were sweet and crisp(even sizes smaller than golf balls). My tree is about 5 1/2 feet tall w/ fruits about 60s. Cham -------------------------------------- From: "Ronald Lyn" Subject: lost lychees newsletter Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:09:10 -0500 Hi Leo. Your great work on the news letter is greatly appreciated. I seem to have inadvertently lost one of my most prized issues. This is the huge one on Lychees of a couple issues back. Is it possible to send another copy? In Jamaica lychees must be our most prized fruit crop, especially as it only flowers in the mountains like where we are situated. Have you ever visited the island? Thanks again, and keep up the good work. Ronald. ---------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 23:36:28 -0800 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Questions & Answers Via Back Issues of RFNO Dear Leo After having the chance to catch up with some of your older newsletters, I have some questions and comments for some of your subscribers. Better late than never. To Mario Lazano in Ft. Lauderdale FL - I live a few miles from you in East Hollywood. Caimito should not be too difficult to find locally. Try Hopkins Nursery (Davie),Garden of Delights (Davie),Lara Nursery (Homestead) or the Broward Fruit and Vegi Counsel (Nursery open saturday's near Markham Park). Are you a member? It is a great place to get local info and meet fellow enthusiasts. Tell me about your success in fruiting your Guanabana, Ilama and Jaboticabas ( and which Jabo's do you have). To Ed Griffin in Zone 10b - What did you find out about low chill kiwis? I'm interested too. Have you acquired info or plant material for the Elmwood, Matua, Tewi or Vincent mentioned by Leo and another subsciber? Heard that our high humidity can also be a limiting factor. To Brian White in Queensland Australia - Just about everying you grow at your parents farm outside Brisbane we can grow here in South Florida. I am happy to trade info, plant material and sources. Can you suggest some good Australian books on trop/subtropical fruits for your area? I can suggest some from our area if you are curious. To Moshe Nadler in Isreal - I would appreciate any tips or pointers you may have on grafting mangos. I have a small grafted Keitt that I have been multigrafting(other cvs) with varying success. I would be interested in your ideas about: when to graft(time of yr or day), what type of graft (side veneer?), size of budwood and scion, materials for wrapping graft, and any does and don'ts. Living near Miami FL, our climate is subtropical. It is also rainy and in the 90s (F) for much of May-Oct. To Carlos Hays in Culiacan, Sinaloa Mexico - Judging from your April 7th letter, we also have similar climates and should be sharing info, plant material and sources. If you are still looking for Rambutan seeds, try to make contact with a grower or enthusiast in Costa Rica where Rambutans are quite plentiful. I just came back with a few seeds (sorry, not enough to share). By the way they have responded very well to the addition of mycorrhizal fungi to the potting mix. To Ron Haydon in SoFL - Still looking for dwarf mangos? Contact Richard Campbell at Fairchild Gardens in Miami To Bob Chambers - I am not familar with the "Nanking cherry". Please tell me more about it, like: is it tropical or subtropical, where have you seen it grown, a seed source, limiting factors, etc. To Bob Holzinger in Ventura CA - You have a lot of experience with Passaflora. Can you suggest how best to get my quadrangularus to flower and fruit? Does it need height (above 6ft) or special pollinators. My So.FL climate is at sea level and pretty moist. Can you suggest other varieties that will produce plentiful and desirable fruit? Thanks, Russ Kaplan @ Hollywood, FL, Zone 10b ----------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Help Me Find Curculigo latefolia Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 13:21:05 -0800 Hi Leo, First, to answer a request in the last RFNO I am a member of CRFG for mailing info pertaining to members only. Can anyone help me find plants or propagules of Curculigo latefolia. It has a fruit that imparts the same reaction in your mouth that you get from miracle fruit. We are starting to look into the active agent and I said I would try to locate some plants/fruits. It's not in Cornucopeia by Steve Facciola so it must be really obscure. It's from Malaysia, that's all I know. Later, Bob ----------------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Subject: Changing my email address Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:53:49 +0800 Dear Leo, I hope you had a nice time away.I am writing to let you know that I will be off the net until Monday 8th of December. Then my new Email address will be as follows. jsojka@fullcomp.com.au I am still keen to subscribe to Rare Fruit Online after then. Regards from Aussieland John Sojka. -------------------------------------------- From: Kym(Javier Cubero) To: Leo Manuel Subject: King Lychee? Where To Find? Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 16:13:36 GMT Do you know about the big lychees? When I went to the July Tropical Fruit Festival in Homestead, a man told me that it's all the rage now and theirs a big waiting list to get it. It's got the word, "king," or something like that in it's name and the fruit are the size of plums with a small seed. Yeah, the lychee I took out was air-layered. I guess it just didn't take, in a year it had no new growth. I'm telling all of my friends in the Tropical Fruit Club (who have computers) to go look at your site! Kym ---------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Ataulfo: New mango variety Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 09:37:45 -0800 Hi Leo, Just thought I would tell you about a mango variety I ran across this year that is being grown commercially in Mexico. It's called Ataulfo and looks like a super Manilla mango. It's longer and much fatter, but has the same great flavor and is fiberless to the seed, just like Manilla. I planted four seeds in July thinking they were just Manilla, but found out differently when I talked to Tim Thompson. Tim planted 1000 seeds of Ataulfo! Obviously he thinks it's worth having so if you want a seedling next spring I'll see what survived in the greenhouse and get one down to you. Hope you had a good trip back home to see your Dad. Later, Bob ------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 10:35:35 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Ataulfo is polyembryonic Thanks, Bob! The Ataulfo is polyembryonic. I planted a dozen or seeds and find that they are slow to start. I've noticed that with several polyembryonic varieties, and am not sure it isn't a coincidence. I've MAYBE got one tiny one struggling to grow. (Even with a little bottom heat.) Leo ------------------------------------ From: Kym(Javier Cubero) Subject: Lychee Wouldn't Grow Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 18:17:20 GMT Leo, you said: Did you destroy the lychee you removed? It might come back in a large pot, if babied for a while. What variety was it? Brewster seems to be the most common. Leo Leo, as for the lychee, I threw it on the wood pile. It was an air-layering from someone, I babied that stick for a year and it just did not put out one new leaf or any other sign of growth. A friend of mine had the same problem, yes, he got his from the same place, so it just must have been a bad take. Fortunately, she gives a full refund, unfortunately, I'm not driving across the state for another cutting. That's why I'm going to try with longans, not as good tasting, but a longer season and a little more cold hardy. Kym ----------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Ataulfo mango Revisited Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 07:41:04 -0800 Hi Leo, I checked my Ataulfo seedlings last night and I have 4 of 4 seeds sprouted with two sprouts per seed. If the sprouts are the same size, how can I tell if one of them is the hybrid or if both are clones of the female parent? I guess the question is whether the hybrid sprout always comes up or not, no matter how many (if any) of the clone sprouts come up. I guess that would be a question to ask Mose. My offer still stands if you don't get something that looks viable by next spring. FYI- the Oro mango grafting that Jim performed for me is growing quite nicely, please pass on my thanks again to him. I just came back from Baja (Cabo) and was pleasantly surprised to find a pile of mangos in one store outside San Jose del Cabo. They were all green, average sized, fiberless and good tasting. I brought a seed home to sprout and will hopefully get it to sprout. It's getting late in the year and my greenhouse isn't heated yet. Later, Bob -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Nov 1997 13:14:17 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: "Moshe Nadler (PR)" Subject: Girdling to improve graft "takes"? Moshe, I have girdled macademia nut trees before taking scion wood from them. I did this years ago, but it was several months before the scion was to be cut. It involved completely removing a narrow ring of bark, scraping the wood to insure that the cadmium layer was removed, and just letting it sit for the time before the scion was to be cut. I don't understand what all happens then this is done, but it did seem to result in better "takes" on grafting. Is this procedure done on tropical or semi-tropical fruit trees to your knowledge? Would it help to do it on mangoes? I get up to 75% success rate on grafting mangoes, and it would be nice to have a greater rate. I have an even poorer rate of success in grafting pitangas. Thanks! Leo -------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 Nov 1997 06:35:39 -0400 From: moshe Reply-To: moshe@coqui.net Subject: girdling to improve grafting hi Leo! First, did you send me rare fruit news? if yes, I didn't get it. now, as for the grafting. we grafted this year 10,000 plants in the nursery and a few hundred trees in the field. I cannot say that we have 100% success but we have got percentage. in the nursery it is close to 100%. we never do girdling. the method we use is 'soft wood grafting' and there are reports in the literature of very good success in this method, especially when the scion is not to old and when you leave some leaves below the graft union (but it is not necessary). this is the only method we use, in the field (when we change the variety of big trees) and in the nursery, when we graft seedlings. we used to graft with a nylon bag and a brown paper bag on top. I changed it and now we graft also with 'para film' only (it is a film used in laboratories). this way you don't have to check on the grafts. you just graft and the new leaves comes out of the film by themselves moshe -------------------------------------- From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" To: Subject: your site-super!! Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 17:47:11 -0500 Dear betty, leo & jocko Zone 4B, Canada, snowing now, 4" on ground. if we could get medical insurance, we'd buy the home next to you we have 6 varieties of ficus carica-5 fruit each year-origin not know as likey brought from europe in a shoe or vest pocket passion flower- edulis (1 fruit) mollisima, incarnata pineapple guave-feijoa sellowinan--30, 40 fruits each year 1" dia sweet/sour, black guava canadian seed source-no friut yet looking for canadian source of jaboticaba & cherimoya-hard to import from usa all plants must be potted & stored overwinter inside thank you bert dunn, -------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 15:39:51 -0400 From: moshe Subject: Here's How To Do Lychee Airlayering hi leo! attached please find two files. pages 1 and 2 of an article about airlayering in lychee. i had many requests for this article and i think maybe you can publish it for everyone to see. moshe Note: The attached file was not easily read, but Moshe sent it by fax, and I used my scanner and OCR software to get it into text format. If you have articles you want to send for the group to use, either send a 200 dpi graphic for me to use the OCR software and translate it to text, or send it by fax. You need to email me that a fax is coming, however, because I have to set up my fax-modem to receive. Leo ------------------- Lychee Airlayering By J. D. Gordon Lychees may be propagated from seed or cuttings, and by grafted. The most widely used method is airlayering. Airlayering is a simple process which produces genetically identical plants and, depending on the cultivar, trees that will begin to provide substantial amounts of fruit in 3 to 5 years after planting. Here follows a brief description of the steps to be taken, from branch selection to planting. 1. Branch selection The branch should have a diameter of approximately one-half inch at the base. It should be reasonably. straight and in good healthy growing condition. The branch length available should be about 3 feet. If it is much shorter, the time to reach fruiting stage may be increased. If much longer the airlayer will be more difficult to handle and plant, as well as more susceptible to wind induced damage when planted 2. Preparation for application of the growing medium While airlayering can be done at any time of the year, the bark will "slip" better in the spring when growing conditions are better. Roots will also form faster in the spring and early-summer. A ring of bark, about 2-1/2 inches in length, should be removed a few inches up from the base of the branch being airlayered. This may be done in many ways but one very successful procedure is to use mossing shears (ordinary shears which have two opposing semi-circular cuts ground into the blades) to cut the bark. It is important to be careful to cut only through the bark and not into the wood, for if the xylem (outer layer of the wood) is cut, the branch will die. After the two cuts are made, the bark may be pulled off by rotation with the jaws of a pair of pliers. Once all the bark is removed the surface of the wood must be cleaned of any residual cambium layer. This may be done with a plastic dish scouring ball. Any residue in grooves of the wood can be cleaned with the point of the shears. If the cambium layer is not completely removed, a callous may bridge the gap between the two cuts and no roots will form. A knife may be substituted if only a few airlayers are to be made and mossing shears are unavailable. 3. The growing medium Many different media have been used, including peat, mud and straw, vermiculite, sawdust and sphagnum moss. Since sphagnum moss is used almost universally here in South Florida, the others will not be discussed. The sphagnum moss should be soaked in water for at least 15 minutes. Excess water is squeezed out, then a large handful is held in one hand, grooved with the heel of other hand, then wrapped around the branch, overlapping by an inch on each side the area where the bark has been removed. The damp moss is then covered with a sheet of plastic or foil. If foil is used, both ends are twisted in the same direction making a so-called "candy wrap". If plastic is used, it is secured at both ends with plastic ribbon. Different colors may be used to identify different cultivars or different times of airlayering. Plastic is preferred since it is more resistant to attack by birds or other animals, and it seems to better preserve the humidity in the moss. Opaque plastic, such as is used in tomato growing, is very satisfactory and readily available here. Clear plastic maybe used, making the new roots visible; however, it is quite easy to feel the presence of roots inside the opaque plastic. 4. Cutting off and handling the airlayer Usually about two months later adequate roots have been formed and the airlayer may be cut off with loppers or a pruning saw if necessary. No stub should be left on the branch or trunk from which the airlayered branch grew but about one inch of stem is desirable below the root ball to facilitate placing and stability in the pot. The cut off airlayers should be kept in, the shade and no more than 20 or 30 cut off at a time if this is a one-man operation.. As quickly as possible the airlayers should be brought in, the plastic or foil removed, the rootballs placed in 5-gallon buckets buckets to soak, and the foliage sprayed with water. Intermittent spraying should be continued until the potting operation is completed. The buckets for soaking the root balls may contain water or, as I prefer, a solution of about 1/2 oz. of chelated iron and an equal amount of a complete soluble fertilizer. It should be noted that at every stage the rooted airlayers must be handled very carefully as the roots are very tender and given one little twist they may be completely detached. 5. Potting After potting, if the airlayers are to be kept in a mist house or mist area, very little foliage need be removed, only enough to shape and balance the plant If they are to be kept in a shaded area and watered 2 or 3 times a day, about 1/3 to 1/2 of the foliage should be removed. A light potting soil should be used. It should contain sand, peat, and perhaps other materials such as perlite, wood chips, etc. Plastic pots of at least 2 gallon capacity are preferred as they permit reasonable root growth and provide adequate stability for the plant. About 2 inches of potting soil is placed in the pot. The plant is then held upright while additional soil is tamped around the periphery of the root ball. NEVER press down on the soil directly above the root ball. After tamping, pour on about a cupful of the solution containing iron and fertilizer mentioned above. About an ounce of a slow release fertilizer, such as Osmocote, may be added to the top of soil and the job is finished. About one month later, under warm weather conditions, the plant should be ready to go into the ground Note: The specific details regarding choice of materials, procedures, tools, etc. are those which the author believes in most cases are commonly used in South Florida today. --------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 00:20:03 -0500 From: moshe To: mitech@iafrica.com Subject: longan, etc.; Correspondence Between Moshe And Jack moshe wrote: hi! our mango harvest is over (thanks god), but soon we will start again with green mangoes to the USA. as for more literature, I'll send you some more articles. if you have an academic library near you I can just send you the sources for articles and you can copy them by yourself, but as I wrote to you before I enjoy discussing those matters and I really don't mind sending those articles by mail. an article I wrote (about my research in litchi), to the American journal of horticulture is about to be published. as soon as I'll have the prints in my hand I'll send you a copy. moshe ----------- jack wrote: Hi there Moshe, I have not mailed you before but think you have been forwarded some stuff. I have read your info and found it quite informative. Out here in South Africa there is a lot of data, but because of climatic difference around the country nothing is really of much use.It is only for guidelines, so I must try finding a happy medium.I am farming with Litchi's wich are doing very well, and Mangoe's. I will have a good crop but poor quality.I also have some Longan trees, which I know nothing about, but will learn. > I would like to read your article on Litchi if it is possible,and ask for any info on Litchi, Mango, Longan, Avacado and Macadamia nuts.These are the trees I keep myself occupied with.And I am thinking of trying a new orchard of Litchi (Kwa Luk) they look to be just what I am looking for.Any ideas? Regards jack ---------- moshe wrote: Hi Jack! i can send you my article by fax or mail if you give my your details. or if you have an academic library near by i can tell you how to find it there. can send you some other stuff also, no problem. you wrote that you have some quality problems in the mangoes? why is that? need any help? moshe ------------------------------------ Subject: longan Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 03:08:13 -0500 the ancient mariner wrote: Moshe, you are the expert on mangoes and lychees. Maybe you can help our paragliding friend, Jack, in South Africa to solve his problem. ----------------- Subject: Re: longan Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 14:19:08 +0200 From: jack Organization: mitech Hallo Mariner, I have not had much time to spend on computers, as I am in the middle of our friut season. Our Litchi's look very good, but my Mango's got a serious Anthrax infestation. Well so much for the export market. I have found a new disease in my Litchi's, and nobody can give me any real info out here. It is a dome shaped scale about 5mm across and 5mm high, dark brown and hard. If you break it open it seems to be full of spores (powder). The leaves on the stem around these things are all covered in a black like powder. I did not see any visible damage to the plant. Ever seen something like that??Please let me know. My Longan are really doing well but the bugs like them a lot.I can't keep any new groth on the trees, it just gets eaten up.I am now setting traps to see which bugs are the cause.I have read all the info forwarded to me and am now gining the trees much more water with visible effects. Please send anything of interest, Regards Jack. ----------- moshe wrote: hi jack! the scales you see feed on the sap of the tree, then they produce honeydew and on this a black mould is developed. heavy infestation will result in reduced tree growth, leaf drop etc. you should try spraying mineral oil. 1%. this will control the mould and maybe the scales. also it is not harmful to natural enemys of the scales. is this doesn't help, try mixing the oil with malathion 0.5% or supracide 0.15%. anyway spray trees only after they are well irrigated. don't spray trees with fruits, unless you checked it on small scale and saw that there is no damage to the fruits. as for the mango quality. if you cannot export this means that you have big problem. i think that you should bring someone to check your orchard, sparying, irrigation, etc. try to see if there is someone there who can give you an advice. by e-mail it is really hard to control. moshe ----------------------------------------- (Note: I copied this from someplace on a website. I thought it would be useful to pass along. However, I intended to bring the URL of the website along, but didn't. I'm not sure it's useful, but here it is. All of what follows is a direct quote. Leo) Subject: Spanish-English-Latin Commodity Reference With Botanical Names Spanish-English-Latin Glossary Of Plant Names by Jeffrey R Nash This glossary is unusual in that the three languages are all contained in one listing, eliminating the need to look up one language in one section and the other languages in other sections. The following letter explains how Jeffrey Nash brought his useful glossary to our attention. 5 March 1997 Dear Dr. Price: For many years I have been working primarily in Latin America as a "development economist". Not an agronomist by background, but usually working in agriculture-related areas (cooperatives, marketing, support institutions such as government ministries and the like). Frequently I have seen difficulties in communicating with agriculturists concerning crops because of language difficulties: not just Spanish to/from English, but also because crop names change substantially from one Spanish-speaking country to the next. This confusion can be exacerbated whenever other foreign agencies (and languages) are involved, such as PICA, GTZ or others. In Honduras I came across a very useful tool for these circumstances: a glossary of English-Spanish-Latin. The element of Latin is both unusual and instrumental, since in this form agronomists can understand each other when local crop names differ. I have added to and amended the original list, hopefully without crass errors, and this is what I offer to your institution, with no obligation to me (the official sources are named and should be indicated, and of course I would not mind being mentioned). This is a working document - technical errors no doubt exist, although I have spent much time to cross-check entries. Also I am sure that a plethora of other names exist for the same items. I have tried to indicate where I have picked up those I remember, but that is the beauty of a working document: it exists to help others communicate. It is yours to use as you wish, or in today's terminology, "freeware". My intention is that it be property open to the public without restrictions although certainly you could charge for reproduction and other costs, etc.). Jeffrey R Nash SPANISH-ENGLISH-LATIN COMMODITY REFERENCE WITH BOTANICAL NAMES (Genus, specie) Sources: FHIA (primary); Others (see end of document) abeto, pinabeto, FIR, Abies sp. aceituna, olivo, OLIVE, Olea europaea acelga, alcachola, SWISS CHARD, Beta vulgaris *achiote, ANNATTO SEED, Bixa orellana achojcha (Bolivia; pepino de relleno, Colombia), Cucurbitaceae cyclanthea pedata ACORN, bellota, Quercus sp. agapanthus, LILY OF THE NILE, Agapanthus africanus aguacate, palta, AVOCADO, Persea americans aguarturma tupinabu, ARTICHOKE JERUSELEM, Helianthus tuberoses ajedra, SAVORY, Satureja hortensis aji, chile, PEPPER (CHILE), Capsicum sp. ajo, GARLIC, Allium sativum ajonjoli, SESAME, Sesamum indicum  lamo, POPLAR, Populus sp. albahaca, BASIL, Ocimum basilicum albaricoque, chabacano, APRICOT, Prunus armeniaca alcachofa, ARTICHOKE (GLOBE), Cynara scolymus alcachola, acelga, SWISS CHARD, Beta vulgaris *alcanfor, CAMPHOR, Cinnamomum camphora alfalfa, ALFALFA, Medicago saliva algarroba, ST. JOHN'S BREAD, Ceratonia siligua algodon, COTTON, Gossypium sp. *ALLSPICE, PIMENTO, malagueta, pimienta inglesa, Pimenta dioica almendra, ALMOND, Prunus dulcis ALOE, (aloe vera), s vila, Aloe sp. alverja (Colombia), arveja, chicharo, guisante, PEA, Pisum sp. *amapola, POPPY (OPIUM), Papaver somniferum ananas, pina, PINEAPPLE, Ananas comosus *ANNATTO SEED, achiote, Bixa orellana anona,  tis, SWEETSOP, SUGAR APPLE, Annona squamosa apio, CELERY, Apium graveolens APPLE, manzana, Malus sylvestris or *** Malus communis & paradisiaca and Pyrus malus APRICOT, albaricoque, chabacano, Prunus armeniaca arandano, BLUEBERRY, Vaccinium sp. arbol del pan, BREADFRUIT, Artocarpus altilis or communis arce, MAPLE, Acer sp. arracacha, PERUVIAN CARROT, Arracacia xanthorrhiza ARROWROOT, maranta, arrurruz, Maranta anindinacea *arroz, RICE, Oryza sativa, short grain japonica and long grain indica arrurruz, maranta, ARROWROOT, Maranta anindinacea ARTICHOKE GLOBE, alcachofa, Cynara scolymus ARTICHOKE JERUSELEM, aguaturma tupinabu, Helianthus tuberoses arveja, alverja (Colombia), chĄcharo, guisante, PEA, Pisum sp. arveja china, SNOW PEAS, Pisum sativum macrocarpon atis, anona, SWEETSOP, SUGAR APPLE, Annona squamosa ASPARAGUS, esparrago, Asparagus officinalis ave del paraĄso, BIRD OF PARADISE, Strelitie reginae ***avellano, HAZELNUT, Coryhus avellana avena, OAT, Avena sativa AVOCADO, aguacate, palta, Persea americans azafran, SAFFRON, Crocus sativus azalea, AZALEA, Rhododendron calendulaceum B *BALSAM, b lsamo, Myroxylon pereirae (PerŖ, El Salvador) or balsamum (Tolu, Colombia, Bolivia) bambu, BAMBOO, Bambusa sp. BANANA, guineo, banano oleroso/gualele (Bolivia), Musa sp. (paradisiaca most commercial type, cavendishii wilt-resistant) banano oleroso, gualele (Bolivia; see BANANA) BARLEY, cebada, Hordeum vulgare BASIL, albahaca, Ocimum basilicum batata, boniato, camote, SWEET POTATO, Ipomoea batatus, YAM, Dioscorea sp. BAY, laurel, Laurus nobilis bayas especies, BRAMBLEBERRIES, Rubus sp. BEAN, frijol, frejol, habichuela, Phaseolus vulgaris BEET, betabel, betarraga, remolacha, Beta vulgaris ** BEET (SUGAR), Beta vulgaris altissima bellota, ACORN, Quercus sp. *** BELL/SWEET PEPPER pimiento, pimenton, Capsicum annuum berenjena, EGGPLANT, Solanum melongena berro, WATERCRESS, Nasturtium officinale betabel, betarraga, remolacha, BEET, Beta vulgaris betarraga, betabel, remolacha, BEET, Beta vulgaris BIRD OF PARADISE, ave del paraiso, Strelitzia reginae *BLACKBERRY, zarzamora, Rubus fructicosus **BLACK-EYE PEA, COWPEA, vigna, Vigna sinensis BLUEBERRY, arandano, Vaccinium sp. boniato, batata, camote, SWEET POTATO, Ipomoea batatus, YAM, Dioscorea sp. BRAMBLEBERREES, bayas especies, Rubus sp. BRAZILNUT, Bertholletia excelsia BREADFRUIT, pan de arbol, Artocarpus allitis or communis BROCCOLI, brocoli, Brassica oleraceae brocoli, BROCCOLI, Brassica oleraceae BROOMCORN, popote, Sorghum bicolor BRUSSELSPROUTS, col de Bruselas, Brassica oleraceala or gemmifera C - D CABBAGE, col, repollo, Brassica oleracea capitata cacahuete, mani, PEANUT, Arachis hypogaea cacao, COCOA BEAN, Theobroma cacao CACTUS FRUIT, tuna, Opuntia sp. CACTUS PAD, PRICKLY PEAR, nopal, Opuntia sp. cafe, COFFEE, Coffea sp. (arabica or canephora, robusta) caimito, STAR APPLE, Chrysophyllum cainitio calabaza, zapallo, PUMPKIN, SQUASH, Cucurbita sp. calendula, MARIGOLD, Tagetes sp. CALIA LILY, lirio, Zantedeschia aethiopica camelia, CAMELLIA, Camellia japonica camote, batata, boniato, SWEET POTATO, Ipomoea batatas, YAM, Dioscorea sp. *CAMPHOR, alcanfor, Cinnamomum camphora cana, SUGARCANE, Saccharum officinarum * cana de Indias, RATTAN, Calamus sp. *canela, CINNAMON, Cinnamomum verum **CANOLA, RAPE, colza, Brassica Spp. CANNONBALL FRUIT, guira, higuena, totumo, Couroupita guianensis CANTALOUPE, melon, Cucumis melo *CARDAMON, cardamomo, Elettaria cardamomum CARNATION, clavel, Dianthus caryophyllus *carabola, STAR FRUIT, Averrhoa carambola CARROT, zanahoria, Daucus carota subsp. sativus caqui, parsimonio, PERSIMMON, Diospyros sp. CASHEW NUT, maranon, Anacardium occidentale *CASSAVA, MANIOC, yuca, Manihot dulcis (yellow, sweet) or utilissima (white, cyanide) castana de agua, WATERNUT, Eleocharis dulcis or WATER CHESTNUT, Trapa natons castana, CHESTNUT, Castanea sp. *CASTOR SEED, higuerilla, recino, Ricinus communis *caucho, chicle, CHICLE, RUBBER, Achras zapota or Hevea brasiliensis CAULIFLOWER, coliflor, Brassica oleracea botrytis cebada, BARLEY, Hordeum vulgare cebolla, ONION, Allium cepa CELERY, apio, Apium graveolens centeno, RYE, Secale cereale cereza, CHERRY, Prunus avium and cerasus chabacano, albaricoque, APRICOT, Prunus arynem chalote, SHALLOT, Allium cepa CHAMAEDOREA PALM, palmilla, Chamaedorea sp. CHAMOMILE, manzanilla, Chamaemelum nobile champinon, hongo, seta, MUSHROOM chayote, pataste, CHRISTOPHINE FRUIT, VEGETABLE PEAR, Sechium edule CHERIMOYA, chirimoya, Annona cherimola CHERRY, cereza, Prunus aidum CHERVIL, perifollo, Anthriscus cerefolium CHESTNUT, castana, Castanea sp. chicharo, alverja, arveja, guisante, PEA, Pisum sp. CHICK PEA, garbanzo, Cicer arietinum *CHICLE, RUBBER, chicle, caucho, Achras zapota or Hevea brasiliensis chile, aji, PEPPER (CHILE), Capsicum sp. china dulce, PARSNIP, Pastinaca saliva chirimoya, CHERIMOYA, Annona cherimola choclo, elote, maiz, CORN, Zea mays chontaduro, palmito, pejebaye, PALMHEART, Chamaedorea sp.; Bactris gasipea or Guiliel gasipea CHRISTOPHINE FRUIT, VEGETABLE PEAR, chayote, pataste, Sechium edule cidra (Bolivia; see citron) cilantro, culantro, CORIANDER, Coriandnon sativum *CINNAMON, canela, Cinnamomum verum ciruela, PLUM, Prunus domestics, MOMBIN, Spondias sp. citron, cidra, CITRON (similar to SHADDOCK), Citrus medica clavel, CARNATION, Dianthus caryophyllus *clavos, CLOVES, Eugenia caryophyllata coco de agua, COCONUT, Cocos nucifera COCOA, cacao, Theobroma cacao COCONUT, coco de agua, Cocos nucifera *COCOYAM, TARO, EDDOE, DASHEEN, Colocasia antiquorum COFFEE, cafe, Coffea sp. (arabica or canephora, robusta) col, repollo, CABBAGE, Brassica oleracea capitata col de Bruselas, BRUSSELSPROUTS, Brassica oleracea coliflor, CAULIFLOWER, Brassica oleracea borrytis ** colza, CANOLA, RAPE, Brassica Spp. *comino, CUMIN, Cuminum cyminium COMMON JASMINE ORANGE, jazmin, Murraya paniculata CORIANDER, cilantro, culantro, Coriandrum sativum CORN, choclo, elote, maiz, Zea mays ** CORN (FEED), Zea mays indentata COTTON, algodon, Gossypium sp. ** COWPEA, BLACK-EYE PEA, vigna, Vigna sinensis crisantemo, MUMS, Chrysanthemum sp. CUCUMBER, pepino, Cucumis sativus *CUMIN, comino, Cuminum cyminium *CURARE, Chondodendron tomentosium *curcuma, TUMERIC, Curcuma longa CUSTARD-APPLE, mamon, Annona reticulate D DAISY, Margarita, Bellis perennis DASHEEN, yautia, Colocasia esculenta *DASHEEN, TARO, EDDOE, COCOYAM, Colocasia antiquorum datil, DATE, Phoenix dactylifera DILL, eneldo, Anethum graveolens durazno, melcoton, PEACH, Prunus persica DURIAN, durio, Durio zibethinus E - K *EDDOE, TARO, DASHEEN, COCOYAM, Colocasia antiquorum EGGPLANT, berenjena, Solanum melongena ejote, STRING BEAN, Phaseolus vulgaris *ejote, FRENCH BEAN, GREEN/STRING BEAN, Phaseolus vulgaris & coccineus ELM, olmo, Ulmus sp. elote, choclo, maiz, CORN, Zea mays encina, roble, OAK, Quercus sp. ***ENDIVE, ESCAROLE, escarola, Chicorium endivia eneldo, DILL, Anethum graveolens ***escarola, ESCAROLE, ENDIVE, Chicorium endivia esparrago, ASPARAGUS, Asparagus officinalis espinaca, SPINACH, Spinacia oleracea estargon, TARRAGON, Artemisia dracunculus ETHROG, limon chivo, Citrus medica eucalipto, EUCALYPTUS, Eucalyptus sp. F FABA BEAN, habas, Vicia faba FERN, helecho FIG, higo, Ficus carica FIR, abeto, pinabeto, Abies sp. ** FLAX, lino, Linum usitatissimum frambuesa, mora de castilla, RASPBERRY, Rubus sp. *FRENCH BEAN, GREEN/STRING BEAN, ejote, Phaseolus coccineus & vulgaris fresa, frutilla, STRAWBERRY, Fragaria sp. frejol, frijol, habichuela, BEAN, Phaseolus vulgaris frutilla, fresa, STRAWBERRY, Fragaria sp. G gandul, PIGEON PEA, Cajanus cajan garbanzo, CHICK PEA, Cicer arietinum gardenia, GARDENIA, Gardenia sp. GARLIC, ajo, Allium sativum gengibre rojo, RED GINGER, Alpinia purpurata *gengibre,GINGER, Zingiber officinale geranio, GERANIUM, Pelargonium sp. GERANIUM, geranio, Pelargonium sp. GHERKIN, pepinillo, Cucumis anguria *GINGER, gengibre, Zingiber officinale ** girasol, SUNFLOWER, Helianthus annuus gladiolo, gladio, GLADIOLA, Gladiolus sp. granada, POMEGRANATE, Punica granatum granadilla, PASSION FRUIT, Passiflora sp. GRAPE, uva, Vitis sp. GRAPEFRUIT, toronja, Citrus paradisi *GREEN/STRING BEAN, FRENCH BEAN, ejote, Phaseolus vulgaris & coccineus grosella china, KIWI, Actinidia chinensis guanabana, SOURSOP, Annona muricata guisante, arveja, alverja (Colombia), chicharo, PEA, Pisum sp. gualele, banano oleroso (Bolivia, see BANANA) GUAVA, guayaba, Psidium guajava guayaba, GUAVA, Psidium guajava guineo (see BANANA, Musa sp.) guira, higuena, totumo, CANNONBALL FRUIT, Couroupita guianensis H haba verde, LIMA BEAN, Phasoelus lunatus macrocarpus habas, FABA BEAN, Vicia faba habichuela, frijol, frejol, BEAN, Phaseolus vulgaris HAWTHORN, tecojote, Crataegus sp. ***HAZELNUT, avellano, Coryhus avellana helecho, FERN HIBISCUS, jamaica, Hibiscus sp. hierba becerra, SNAPDRAGON, Antirrhinum majus higuerilla, recino, CASTOR SEED, Ricinus communis higo, FIG, Ficus carica higuena, guira, totumo, CANNONBALL FRUIT, Couroupita guianensis HOG PLUM, YELLOW MOMBIN , jobo, Spondias mombin HONEYDEW, melon dulce, Cucumis melo hongo, champimon, seta, MUSHROOM HUSK-TOMATO, tomatillo, Physalis sp. I injerto, GREEN SAPOTE, Pouteria viridis IRIS, lirio, Iris sp. J JACKFRUIT, jaca, Anocarpus heterophyllus jaca, JACKFRUIT, Anocarpus heterophyllus jamaica, HIBISCUS, Hibiscus sp. jazmin, COMMON JASMINE ORANGE, Murraya paniculata jengibre, GINGER, Zingiber officinale jicama, JICAMA, YAM BEAN ROOT, Pachyrhizus erosus jobo, HOG PLUM, YELLOW MOMBIN, Spondiasz monbin *JOJOBA, jojoba, Simmondsia californica JUNIPER, junipero, Juniperus sp. junipero, JUNIPER, Juniperus sp. *JUTE, yute, Corchorus capsularis & olitorius K KIWI, grosella china, Actinidia chinensis *KENAF, THAI JUTE, kenaf, Hibiscus cannabinus KEY LIME, LIME, limon/lima agria/limon criollo, Citrus aurantiifolia L - N laurel, LAUREL, BAY, Launis nobilis lechuga, LETTUCE, Lactuca sp. LEEK, puerro, Allium ampeloprasum LEMON, limon, Citrus limon LEMONGRASS, te de limon, Cymbopogon citratus LETTUCE, lechuga, Lactuca sp. ūLETTUCESū, Chichorium sp., achicoria, escarola, endivia LILY, lirio, Lilium sp. LILY OF THE NILE, agapanthus, Agapanthus qfficanus lima (Bolivia, Peru, Central America), LIME (SWEET), Citrus limenioides LIMA BEAN, haba verde, Phasoefus lunatus macrocarpus. LIME, KEY LIME, limon/lima agria/limon criollo, Citrus aurantiifolia LIME (PERSIAN or TAHITIAN LEMON), limon persa, Citrus latifolia LIME (SWEET), lima, Citrus limenioides limon, LEMON, Citrus limon limon chivo, ETHROG, Citrus medica lima agria/limon, LIME, Citrus aurantiifolia limon persa, LIME (PERSIAN or TAHITIAN), Citrus latifolia limon ponderosa, PONDEROSA LEMON, Citrus limon var. ponderosa ** lino, FLAX, Linum usitatissimum lirio, CALIA LILY, Zantedeschia aethiopica lirio, LILY, Lilium sp.; IRIS, Iris sp. litchi, LYCHEE, Litchi chinensis LOQUAT, nispero, Eriobotrya japonica LYCHEE, litchi, Litchi chinensis M *MACADEMIA NUT, macademia, Macadamia terniflora maguey, MAGUEY PLANT, Agave sp. maiz, choclo, elote, CORN, Zea mays * malagueta, pimienta inglesa, ALLSPICE, PIMENTO, Pimenta dioica malanga, CALADRUM, Caladium sp. MALANGA, taro, Colocasia esculentus MAMMEE, mamey, Mammea americana MAMMEE SAPOTE, mamey, Pouteria sapota mamey, MAMAME, Manunea americana mamey, MAMMEE SAPOTE, Pouteria sapota mamon, CUSTARD-APPLE, Annona reticulate MANDARIN ORANGE, TANGERINE, mandarina, Citrus reticulate mandarina, MANDARIN ORANGE, TANGERINE, Citrus reticulate mango, MANGO, Mangifera indica *MANGOSTEEN, Garcinia mangostana manĄ, cacahuete, PEANUT, Arachis hypogaea>BR> *MANIOC, CASSAVA, yuca, Manihot dulcis (yellow, sweet) or utilissima (white, cyanide) manzana, APPLE, Malus sylvestris or *** Malus communis & paradisiaca and Pyrus malus manzanilla, CHAMOMILE, Chamaemelum nobile MAPLE, arce, Acer sp. maracuya, PASSION FRUIT, Passiflora endulis maranon, CASHEW NUT, Anacardium occidentale maranta, arrurruz ARROWROOT, Maranta anindinacea margarita, DAISY, Bellis perennis MARIGOLD, calendula, Tagetes sp. MARIHUANA, marijuana, Cannabis saliva *mate, PARAGUAYAN TEA, Ilix paraguariensis MELISA, toronjil, Labiatae or Lamiaceae melisa officinalis melocoton, durazno, PEACH, Prunus persica MELON PEAR, pepino, Solanum muncatum airon melon, CANTALOUPE, Cucumis melo melon dulce, HONEYDEW, Cucumis melo membrillo, QUINCE, Cydonia oblonga menta, MINT,Mentha alvenses MESQUITE, mesquite, Prosopsis sp. MEXICAN ELDER, sauce, Sambucus mexicana *MILLET, milo, esp. Setaria italica, Panicum miliaceum, Pennisetum glaucum MINT, menta, Mentha alvenses *milo, MILLET, esp. Setaria italica, Panicum miliaceum, Pennisetum glaucum MISTLETOE, muerdago, Phoradendron sp. MOMBIN, ciruela, Spondias sp., PLUM, Prunus domestics mora (macho), MULBERRY, Morus alba mora de castilla, frambuesa, RASPBERRY, Rubus sp. MOSS (SPANISH), musgo, Tillandsia usneoides mostaza, MUSTARD, Brassica juncea muerdago, MISTLETOE, Phoradendron sp. MULBERRY, mora (macho), Morus alba MUMS, crisantemo, Chrysanthemum sp. musgo, MOSS (SPANISH), Tillandsia usneoides MUSTARD, mostaza, Brassica juncea MUSHROOM, champinon, hongo, seta N nabo, TURNIP, Brassica rapa naranja dulce, ORANGE (SWEET), Citrus aurannum naranja agria, ORANGE (SOUR), Citrus sinensis naranjilla, NARANJIILLA, Solanum quitoense nardo, vara de nardo, TUBEROSE, Polianthes tuberosa NASEBERRY, sapodilla, Manilkara zapota nectarina, NECTARINE, Prunus persica nectarina *nim, NEEM, Azadirachta indica nispero, LOQUAT, Eriobotrya japonica nogal, WALNUT, Juglans sp. nopal, CACTUS PAD, PRICKLY PEAR, Opuntia sp. *NUTMEG, nuez moscada, Myristica fragrans * nuez moscada, NUTMEG, Myristica fragrans O - Q OAK, encina, roble, Quercus sp. OAT, avena, Avena sativa OKRA, okra, quimbombo, Abelmoschus esculentus or *Hibiscus esculentus oleander, OLEANDER, Nerium oleander OLIVE, aceituna, olivo, Olea europaea olivo, aceituna, OLIVE, Olea europaea olmo, ELM, Ulmus sp. ONION, cebolla, Allium cepa ORANGE (SOUR), naranja agria, Citrus aurantium ORANGE (SWEET), naranja dulce, Citrus sinensis oregano, OREGANO, Lippia sp. P *pacana, PECAN, Carya pecan & illinoensis PALMHEART, palmito, pejebaye, chontaduro, Chamaedorea sp.; Bactris gasipea or Guiliel gasipea palmilla, CHAMAEDOREA PALM, Chamaedorea sp. palmito, pejebaye, chontaduro, PALMHEART, Chamaedorea sp.; Bactris gasipea or Guiliel gasipea palta, aguacate, AVOCADO, Persea americans pan de arbol, BREADFRUIT, Artocarpus altilis papa, patata, POTATO (IRISH), Salanum tuberosum papaya, PAPAYA, Carica papaya papayo, PAWPAW, Carica candamarcensis *PARAGUAYAN TEA, mate, Ilix paraguariensis parsimonio, caqui, PERSIMMON, Diospyros sp. PARSLEY, perejil, Petroselinum honense PARSNIP, china dulce, Pastinaca saliva PASSION FRUIT, granadilla, maracuya, Passiflora sp. pastate, chayote, CHRISTOPHINE FRUIT, VEGETABLE PEAR, Sechium edule patata, papa, POTATO (IRISH), Salanum tuberosum patilla (Bolivia, see WATERMELON) PEA, arveja, alverja (Colombia), chicharo, guisante, Pisum sp. PEACH, durazno, melocoton, Prunus persica PEANUT, cacahuete, mani, Arachis hypogaea PEAR, pera, Pyrus communis *PECAN, pacana, Carya pecan & illinoensis pejebaye, chontaduro, palmito, PALMHEART, Chamaedorea sp.; Bactris gasipea or Guiliel gasipea pepino, CUCUMBER, Cucumis sativus pepinillo, GHERKIN, Cucumis anguria pepino, MELON PEAR, Solanum muncatum Airon pepino de relleno (Colombia; see achojcha) PEPPER (CHILE), aji, Capsicum sp. *PEPPER (CORN/BLACK), pimienta, Piper nigrum ***PEPPER (SWEET/BELL), pimiento, Capsicum annuum pera, PEAR, Pyrus communis perejil, PARSLEY, Petroselinum hortense perifollo, CHERVIL, Anthriscus cerefolium PERSIAN or TAHITIAN LEMON/LIME, limon persa, Citrus latifolia PERSIMMON, caqui, parsimonio, Diospyros sp. PERUVIAN CARROT, arracacha, Arracacia xanthorrhiza PIGEON PEA, gandul, Cajanus cajan *PIMENTO, ALLSPICE, malagueta, pimienta inglesa, Pimenta dioica ***pimenton, pimiento, SWEET/BELL PEPPER, Capsicum annuum *pimienta, PEPPER (CORN/BLACK), Piper nigrum * pimienta inglesa, malagueta, ALLSPICE, PIMENTO, Pimenta dioica ***pimiento, pimenton, SWEET/BELL PEPPER, Capsicum annuum pina, ananas, PINEAPPLE, Ananas comosus pinabeto, abeto, FIR, Abies sp. PINE, pino, Pinus sp. PINEAPPLE, pina, ananas, Ananas comosus PINENUT, pinon, Pinus sp. pino, PINE, Pinus sp. pinon, PINENUT, Pinus sp. PLANTAIN, platano macho, Musa sp. platano macho, PLANTAIN, Musa sp. platano, BANANA, Musa sp. PLUM, ciruela, Prunus domestics poinsetta, POINSETTA, Euphorbia pulcherrima POMEGRANATE, granada, Punica granatum pomelo, SHADDOCK, Citrus grandis PONDEROSA LEMON, limon ponderosa, Citrus limon var. ponderosa POPLAR, alamo, Populus sp. *POPPY (OPIUM), amapola, Papaver somniferum popote, BROOMCORN, Sorghum bicolor POTATO (IRISH), papa, patata, Solanum tuberosum>BR> PRICKLY PEAR, nopal, Opuntia sp. puerro, LEEK, Allium ampeloprasum PUMPKIN, SQUASH, calabaza, zapallo, Cucurbita sp. PURSLANE, verdolaga, Portulaca oleracea *PYRETHRUM, Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium Q quimbombo, okra, OKRA, Abelmoschus esculentus or * Hibiscus esculentus QUINCE, membrillo, Cydonia oblonga *QUININE, quinina, Chichona ledgeriana *quinoa (Bolivia, Peru), Chemopodium album R - Z rabano, RADISH, Raphanus sativus rambutan, HAIRY LYCHEE, Nephelium lappaceum * ramio, RAMIE, Boehmeria nivea ** RAPE, CANOLA, colza, Brassica Spp. RASPBERRY, frambuesa, mora de castilla, Rubus sp. *RATTAN, cana de Indias, Calamus sp. *recino, higuerilla, CASTOR SEED, Ricinus communis RED GINGER, jengibre rojo, Alpinia purpurata remolacha, betarraga, betabel, BEET, Beta vulgaris repollo, col, CABBAGE, Brassica oleracea capitara *RICE, arroz, Oryza saliva, short grain japonica and long grain indica roble, encina, OAK, Quercus sp. romero, ROSEMARY, Rosmarinus officinalis ROSEMARY, romero, Rosmarinus officinalis rosa, ROSE, Rosa sp. *RUBBER, CHICLE, chicle, caucho, Achras zapota or * Hevea brasiliensis Rubus sp., bayas especies, BRAMBLEBERRIES RYE, centeno, Secale cereale S SAFFRON, azafran, Crocus sativus SAGE, salvia, Salvia officinalis SALSIFY OYSTER PLANT, salsifi, Tragopogon porrifoltus salvia, SAGE, Salvia officinalis sandia, patilla, WATERMELON, Citrullus lanatus sapodilla, NASEBERRY, Manilkara zapota sapote, SAPOTE (BLACK), Diospyros digyna sapote, SAPOTE (WHITE), Casimiroa edulis sauce, sauz, WILLOW, Salix sp. sauce, MEXICAN ELDER, Sambucus mexicana savila, ALOE, Aloe sp. SAVORY, ajedrea, Satureja hortensis SESAME, ajonjoli, Sesamum indicum seta, hongo, champinon, MUSHROOM SHADDOCK (similar to citron), pomelo, Citrus grandis SHALLOT, chalote, Allium cepa SNAPDRAGON, hierba becerra, Antirrhinum majus SNOW PEAS, arveja china, Pisum sativum macrocarpon ** SORGHUM ( for GRAIN), Sorghum bicolor ** SORGHUM (for FEED), Sorghum vulgare saccharatum sorgo, SORGHUM, Sorghum vulgare SOURSOP, guanabana, Annona muricata soja, soya, SOYBEAN, Glycine max SPINACH, espinaca, Spinacia oleracea SQUASH, PUMPKIN, calabaza, zapallo, Cucurbita sp. STAR APPLE, caimito, Chrysophyllum cainito *STAR FRUIT, carabola, Averrhoa carambola STRAWBERRY, fresa, frutilla, Fragaria sp. STRING/GREEN BEAN, FRENCH BEAN, ejote, Phaseolus vulgaris & coccineus ** SUDAN GRASS, Sorghum vulgare sudanese SUGARCANE, cana, Saccharum officinarum SUGAR APPLE, SWEETSOP, anona, atis, Annona squamosa ** SUNFLOWER, girasol, Helianthus annuus SWEET POTATO, batata, boniato, camote, Ipomoea batatas SWEETSOP, SUGAR APPLE, anona, atis, Annona squamosa SWISS CHARD, acelga, alcachola, Beta vulgaris T TAHITIAN or PERSIAN LEMON/LIME, limon persa, Citrus latifolia *TAMARILLO (TREE TOMATO), Cyphomandra betacea & crassifolia tamarindo, TAMARIND BEAN, Tamarindus indica TANGERINE, MANDARIN ORANGE, mandarina, Citrus reticulate taro, MALANGA, Colocasia esculentus *TARO, EDDOE, DASHEEN, COCOYAM, Colocasia antiquorum TARRAGON, estargon, Anemisia dracunculus te, TEA, Camellia sinensis (chinese) and assamica (Assam) te de limon, LEMON GRASS, Cymbopogon citratus tecojote, HAWTHORN, Crataegus sp. *THAI JUTE, KENAF, kenaf, Hibiscus cannabinus THYME, tomillo, Thymus vulgaris *TOBACCO, tobaco, Nicotiana tabacum & rustica tomate, TOMATO, Lycopersicon esculentum tomatillo, HUSK TOMATO, Physalis sp. tomillo, THYME, Thymus vulgaris toronja, GRAPEFRUIT, Citrus paradisi toronjil,MELISA, Labiatae or Lamiaceae melisa officinalis totumo, guira, higuena, CANNONBALL FRUIT, Couroupita guianensis trigo, WHEAT, Triticum aestivum TUBEROSE, nardo, vara de nardo, Polianthes tuberosa TULIP, tulipan, Tulipa sp. tulip n, TULIP, Tulipa sp. *TUMERIC, curcuma, Curcuma longa tuna, CACTUS FRUIT, Opuntia sp. TURNIP, nabo, Brassica rapa U uva, GRAPE, Vitis sp. V vainilla, VANILLA, Vanilla planifolia vara de nardo, nardo, TUBEROSE, Polianthes tuberosa VEGETABLE PEAR, CHRISTOPHINE FRUIT, chayote, pataste, Sechium edule verdolaga, PURSLANE, Ponulaca oleracea * vetiver, VETIVER, Veteveria zizaniodes **vigna, BLACK-EYE PEA, COWPEA, Vigna sinensis W WALNUT, nogal, Juglans sp. WATERMELON, sandiatilla, Citrullus lanatus WATERNUT, castana de agua, Eleocharis dulcis WATER CHESTNUT, castana de agua, Trapa natons WATERCRESS, berro, Nasturtium officinale WHEAT, trigo, Triticum aestivum WILLOW, sauce, sauz, Salix sp. Y YAM, batata, boniato, camote, Dioscorea sp. YAM BEAN ROOT, JICAMA, jicama, Pachyrhizus erosus yautia, DASHEEN, Colocasia esculenta YELLOW MOMMIN, HOG PLUM, jobo, Spondias mombin *yuca, CASSAVA, MANIOC, Manihot dulcis (yellow, sweet) or utilissima (white, cyanide) *yute, JUTE, Corchorus capsularis & olitorius Z zanahoria, CARROT, Daucus carota subsp. siuivus zapallo, calabaza, PUMPKIN, SQUASH, Cucurbita sp. zarzamora, BLACKBERRY, Rubus sp. fructicosus ZUCCHINI, Cucurbita maxima SOURCES: FHIA: Fundacion Hondurena para la Investigacion Agricola (master list) * Robbins, Tropical Commodities and Their Markets ** Cullison and Lowrey, Feeds and Feeding *** Biblioteca Practica Agricola y Ganadera (Spain) plus some local names from Bolivia, Colombia and Central America Compiled: March/97 by J Nash. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - November 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< --------------------------------------------------------- Rare Fruit News Online 12/01/97 23 --------------------------------------------------------- List of Topics In This Newsletter: Subject: Supplementary Newsletters & Fruit Varieties Journal Articles Subject: Mango trees, help needed for spraying information Subject: Controlling Anthracnose with Copper? Subject: Getting longan to flower Subject: seedless guava Subject: Longan Subject: Re: bay rum tree Subject: Clement Teng, New Subscriber from Australia; Seeks Help Subject: P. quadrangularis Subject: growing subtropicals in the low desert Subject: Sam, from Israel: New Subscriber, with Seed Question Subject: What is that white stuff? Subject: re: What is that white stuff? Subject: Avoiding Fungicide Possible? Subject: Re: White Stuff is a Parasite on Mango Subject: Growing Frost-Sensitive Trees In Frost-Prone Areas Subject: No Anna Replacement and No Rare Fruit Sites in Israel Subject: New Subscriber from Ohio Subject: Re: capulin Subject: rarefruit@coollist message? Forget it! Subject: Banana Chat Subject: Re-Subscribe Newsletter Subject: New Information Sought: Longans/Lychees Subject: Brian White's new email address Subject: New Subscriber - Doing Tissue Culture With Bananas! Subject: John Sojka's back with a new email address Subject: 'Kensington Pride' Mango and Polyembryonic Seedlings -------------------------------------- From: Leo Manuel Subject: Supplementary Newsletters & Fruit Varieties Journal Articles Over the years, Fruit Varieties Journal has had several articles evaluating cultivars of fruits many of us are interested in growing. I have scanned and OCR'd them and can send text versions. Most of you would be interested in reading these, except, possibly, those discussing Cactus Blueberry, and Apples. Those three I will send only to you if you request them. The rest I will send separately from the newsletter, to everyone on the mailing list. I don't know if this fine publication is available on the internet, but I highly recommend that you subscribe. Most articles deal with apples, pears, and grapes, but I find something in most issues of interest. To everyone on the mailing list Mango: Fruit Varieties Journal 47(1)25-31 1993 Lychee: Fruit Varieties Journal 45(1)45-56 1991 Lychee: Fruit Varieties Journal 47(2)83-91 1993 (in Australia) Longan: Fruit Varieties Journal 47(3)153-160 1993 Naranjilla & Carombola: Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3)136-146 1994 Papaya: Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3)146-152 1994 Amazonian Small Fruit: Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3)152-158 1994 Passion Fruit: Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3)159-162 1994 Jujube: Fruit Varieties Journal 33(3)100-104 1979 Only to those who request any of them: (State which) Cactus Apples: Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3)134-136 1994 Blueberry: Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2)48-50 1979 Blueberry: Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2)51-53 1979 Blueberry: Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2)54-56 1979 Blueberry: Fruit Varieties Journal 49(1)46-52 1995 Low-Chill Apple: Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2)65-66 1979 Low-Chill Apple: Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2)67-67 1979 --------------------------------------------------------- From: To: jeff.earl@ccc-infonet.edu Date: Saturday, November 15, 1997 11:18 AM Subject: Mango trees, help needed for spraying information Jeff Wallace said (to Jeff Earl) Jeff, You have a great web page!! I found all your information interesting and it help feel confident about growing mango trees. I have two Kent mango trees in very large containers. Both trees are three year old grafted trees and they produced fruit last year. My question is about controlling anthracnose and the use of copper on a tree in a container. I have purchase a 8% copper concentrate. What do you think the proper dilution would be and how often should it be used? Should I spray the entire tree or should I spray just around the base of the tree? Any information you can supply me will be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Anaheim, CA ------------------ Jeff Earl forwarded the letter to me, and I sent it to Moshe, who responded: Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 06:49:12 -0400 From: moshe Subject: Re: Anthracnose and copper hi Leo! if Jeff grows his mangoes in a humid area, it will be hard for him to control the anthracnose. 8% copper sounds to low to me, where did he buy this chemical and what is the commercial name?. we are using 'kocide 101', which contains 77% copper hydroxide, at a rate of 8 lb. per acre. (which means, about 2 gallons per tree with 0.1 LB of the chemical). he should spray weekly in the flowering stage, and then monthly after fruit set. it will be better to use also Benlate (benomyl 50% WP) and not to use only one chemical in order to avoid resistance. the benlate Jeff can use at a rate of 2%. and keep the pH to 6-6.5 if he can. with all sprays against anthracnose the all tree, leaves, fruits should be covered. moshe -------------------- Jeff wrote back with: hi Leo & Moshe, The chemical I have is produced by Cooke and is called Kop-R-Spray. It's active ingredient is copper ammonium complex and is 0.784 lbs. copper per gallon. Do you think this is okay or should I just return this spray and find the chemicals you are using? Do I need to be spraying at this time of year? Also, when you say cover the tree, do you mean spray the entire tree? I know I have a lot of questions. Do you know a good book that would help me? Thanks for your time and information, Jeff ---------------- And Moshe replies with: hi jeff! never heard of this chemical, but it doesn't say it's no good. read the label and see what it say about mango. spary the entire tree. you should start spaying when the tree start to flower, every week, and then once a month after fruit set. if it is not a major problem i wouldn't recommend spraying at all. you lose some fruits but the ones that stay are without residues of those chemicals. i can send you some information regarding this matter by mail or fax if you send me your details. moshe --------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:28:55 -0800 From: Sainarong Rasananda To: Doron Kletter Subject: Getting longan to flower Hi Doron, I am a longan grower in Thailand. Although I have neither experience in the Kohala cultivar nor experience in growing fruit trees in the States, I may, may mind you, be able to help you. Can you give me more details? Without any details, I have this to say. Longan does not want tender loving care. Too much TLC will encourage vegetative growth and discourage flowering. To be more precise, too much nitogen will discourage flowering, so maybe no nitrogen for three months before flowering might help. ( I have known longan trees which do not flower for many years due to over-application of nitrogen.) Too much manure before flowering will also discourage flowering - due to nitrogen, I believe. Water also discourage flowering. No watering for 2 to 3 months may also help. If you have to water in order to prevent it from withering, water only very sparingly, preferably using mini-sprinkler, so that you can control the amount of water. Keep me informed on your longan P.S. Regrettably, I sometimes cannot reply very fast. Sainarong Rasananda ------------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 01:41:08 -0800 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: seedless guava Yes, we have seedless guavas in Thailand. In fact, most of the guavas in the market here are more or less seedless, and quite large. We have both pink and white seedless guavas. I am not a great fan of guava, but I must admit that they are pretty good value for money. Rose apples, on the other hand, are more expensive and quite popular. WE have quite a few varieties. We generally eat them fresh out of hand, skin and all - apart from the seeds. Sainarong Rasananda ------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 10:41:29 -0800 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Longan At the risk of being overly repetitious, I would like to say that I have extensive experience of growing longans in Thailand, by far the largest producer of longan in the world. While I have absolutely no on-hand experience in growing fruit trees elsewhere, as well as no experience in growing the Kohala cultivar, I think that my knowledge can, in some instance, be of use to some of you longan growers around this wide wide world. If you have any question on or trouble with longan, I shall try to do my best to answer them. I shall reply with a cc to Leo, and he can decide whether to include my mail in his excellent rarefruit online. I am currently about to make an armchair study of longans all over the world. I have already made contact with specialists in Australia. I shall be trying to contact others in China, Taiwan, and possibly Hawaii, Florida and California. I would be very grateful if any of you can help in my study. As I mentioned, I have no experience of growing the Kohala cultivar in the States - as a matter of fact, I have never seen a Kohala - I would like to know much more about it. I already have an article on Kohala written by the man who introduced the cultivar into the States - Moshe sent them to me. Let me finish by summarizing the most important points for longan growers in Thailand. 1. Longan is very easy to grow, and have relatively little diseases or pests.. 2. Longans require plenty of water, especially in the dry season when the fruit are growing. 3. But longans do not take kindly to flooding, so well-drained soil is of the utmost importance. 4. If there is too much nitrogen before the flowering period, you will get leaves instead of flowers. This means i) Longans should not be grown in soils which have plenty of nitrogen, organic matters I believe you call them. Soils with low nitrogen contents are preferred. ii) Cut down to practically zero the nitrogen input before the flowering period. This is not as simple as it sounds, as the last flushes require plenty of nitrogen. The quantity of nitrogen input at various time is really an art. iii) Stop watering 1-2-2.5 months before flowering. Watering tends to encourage vegetative flush and help to disslove any nitrogen in the soil. This is not good as nitrogen then becomes easily taken up by the longan tree. iv) Don't put any manures or similar substance a few months before flowering. Manures contains nitrogen which are slowly released over time. 5. As mentioned, water stressing - which means do not water the tree 1-2-2.5 months before flowering time helps towards flowering. But if you cut down the water to zero for too long, the tree will wither. It is my own personal belief that longan can take a little water almost all this time. 6. Longans definitely do not like frost. It is more susceptible to frost than lychees. Different cultivars exhibit different responses to frost. 7. A longan tree is larger than a lychee tree. The above are only guidelines. As the growers well know, there are many other variables involved. If you disagree with what I write, please please tell me. Happy growing. P.S. most people consider Thai longans to be the best in the world. Myself, I can neither confirm nor deny this, as I have never tasted any other longans. Sainarong Rasananda -------------------------------------- From: jcubero@magicnet.net (Javier Cubero) Subject: Re: bay rum tree Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:48:50 GMT I don't know much about Bay Rum trees really, although i can give you the phone number and address of the grower I got it from. I got it from Don & Katie Chafin from, "Going Bananas." Their address is 24401 SW 197 Ave, Homestead, Fl 33031. (305)247-0397. I went on a tour of their place during the Fruit & Spice Park rare fruit festival in July. They have a bunch of Bay Rum Trees (and bananas and lychees). Anyway, it's already been in the low 40s here (and will be again this week) and I didn't see any sign of damage on anything yet. The process for getting essential oil from plants is done with a distillery. As far as I know, their illegal. You know, a, "still." The things that tv cops are always destroying when tv hillbillies make corn-mash al-kee-hal. So, we can either make a homemade illegal, "still," or pay for the stuff in stores or mail order. Of course, I'm not really sure how to make a still. Maybe a library would have it. ********Kym******* -------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 22:56:37 +0800 From: Clement Teng Subject: Clement Teng, New Subscriber from Australia; Seeks Help Hi Leo I would like join the group, details below: I live in Perth, Western Australia I've had no experience growing rare fruit until 4 yrs. ago. I would like to a R2E2 Mango, any information on this variety??? I would also appreciate information on growing Lychee, Longan and Persimmon in Western Australia condition. Thank You Clement -------------------------------------- From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: P. quadrangularis Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 09:00:39 -0800 Hello Russ, I have not grown Passiflora quadrangularis outdoors, but I would suppose it will behave similarly to a hybrid I have of P. alata x P. quadrangularis. This plant will flower whenever it feels like it, with no set season. Basically it will bud up when there has been sufficient new growth and I would say six feet is a little small. When it does flower you will need a compatible cross pollinator, like P. alata or P. caerulea or possibly P. edulis or P. edulis f. flavocarpa. The fruits will take several months to mature. Since it is warm most of the time in Florida you should give some light fertilizing ever other month or so. People who could give you some advice are the growers at Butterfly World in Ft. Lauderdale. They run the Passiflora Society Int. and know lots of people growing passifloras in Florida. Any more questions, just drop me an email. Good luck, Bob Holzinger ---------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 11:57:57 -0700 From: Jeremy Subject: Sam, from Israel: New Subscriber, with Seed Question Hi, I live in Alon Shvut, Israel. It is a mountainous region a few miles south of Jerusalem. We have cool evenings and war days for most of the year. We get a few 1-3 freezes a year, and a few weeks of temps in the 35-45 range in the winter. There is no rain all summer, moderate rain in the winter. The highs in summer are in the 90s with low humidity. The following fruit trees seem to grow well here: Pomegranite, Persimmon, Apple, Cherry, Plum, Grape, Almond, Kiwi, Fig, Apricot. I currently have a few young trees, but I am building a new house and am planning to plant some more. CAn you recommend trees that would be interesting and can be grown from seed? Also please put me on your mailing list. Thanks Sam Michelson --------------------------------------- Darren Chu writes to Doron Kletter: Subject: What is that white stuff? Hi! We've never emailed before, but I couldn't help but notice you grow mangoes too. Well, I'm not much of a gardener, but I have 4 mango seedlings right now. I was wondering whether you could give me tips on ridding of this white colored parasite that I constantly find developing. Have you ever had this problem? I suspect this parasite comes from the mango seeds themselves which I get from the fruit bought in grocery stores. This destructive parasite seems to suck the life out of the mango leaves, leaving them dehydrated and wilted. By the way, I live up north in Vancouver, Canada, so anytime my mangoes last over a year I'd be surprised. Darren Chu --------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:51:28 PST To: Darren Chu From: Doron Kletter Subject: re: What is that white stuff? Darren, Not sure I can tell what the white stuff is based on your short description. My best bet would be that it is not a parasite at all, but rather fungus in an advanced stage. Typically the first signs would be the seed turning black, after which white fungus may develop. By then, it is much too late. The most effective preventative treatment would be to deep the seed in fungicide powder prior to planting it. I use standard root growing hormone (with fungicide) available from several sources. Also, be careful not to over-water, since Mangos are quite sensitive. Actually, they do not 'wilt' like other plants; Always provide good drainage, add water only when the soil gets dry, and never let the water stand. You should know Vancouver is much too cold for planting mangos outside, and they do tend to grow big. It can take up to six years for a seedling tree to start producing fruit. Also, depending on the variety, seedlings may not come true (that is - the fruit quality may be different [sometimes inferior] than the parent). If you like the challenge and have the space [a heated greenhouse?], I suggest you get a grafted tree, which would bear much younger (2 years). There are dwarf varieties that are suitable for growing in a large pot. They all need a long (preferably hot and dry) summer to produce good quality fruit. Do you have a copy of the Rare Fruit News Online 11/15/97? In it, I was describing how I start mango from seed. Let me know if you need a copy. I am copying Leo on this message, as he and the other RFNO members are very knowledgeable and might also be able to help. -- Doron -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:24:33 PST From: Darren Chu From: Doron Kletter Subject: Re: White Stuff is a Parasite on Mango Darren, I did not realise it can crawl! Based on your new description, I think your parasite is likely to be Mealybugs. Mealybugs are closely related to scale insects, having an oval body with overlapping soft plates and a white cottony covering (and antennae pair). They look like common pillbugs, except they do not roll. Unlike most scales, mealybugs can move around - at a very slow crawl. They suck plant juices, causing stunting or death. Often a black mold grows on the honeydew they excrete. If the above description fits, you should know mealybugs are prime house plant pests everywhere. To get rid of them, daub the mealybugs with a cotton swab dipped in rubbing alcohol. Heavy mealybugs infestation can be controlled by spraying with malathion, diazinon, or horticulture oil. But these are powerful chemicals that should not be applied indoors. You can also take the plants outdoors and hose them with jets of water (or insecticidal soap) every 2 weeks to remove adult, eggs and young, until none are left. I never had this problem on my [outdoor] trees, so it must have been introduced via an infected house plant. Sometimes ants bring them in and farm them to feast on their heneydew just like they do with aphids. -- Doron -- ------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 11:16:14 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: Sam Michelson Subject: Growing Frost-Sensitive Trees In Frost-Prone Areas Sam, I successfully grew frost-sensitive fruit trees once, by planting them on either the south or west side of my home, VERY close to the house. The roof overhang helped protect them, and the house absorbed heat during the day to also help. I believe, if you could get plants up to some size, protecting them somehow during their young and tender years, then they would be less vulnerable, even when planted with less protection. Macadamia nuts are more cold hardy, and I believe guavas are, as well, compared to mango, lychee, and longan. I'd expect that the Pistachio nut would do well there, as it requires some cold. The Anna apple from Israel is very popular here in Southern California, and I've heard there is another more recent addition from Israel, but I haven't seen it. Yours, Leo ----------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 09:45:22 +0200 To: Leo Manuel From: Sam Michelson Subject: No Anna Replacement and No Rare Fruit Sites in Israel >The Anna apple from Israel is very popular here in Southern California, and >I've heard there is another more recent addition from Israel, but I haven't >seen it. Nor have I. >Do you know of any websites in Israel that deal with fruit? Hopefully, with >English translations? I don't know of any sites in Israel that deal with rare fruits. sam. ----------------------------------------- From: "David Young" Subject: New Subscriber from Ohio >1. Where do you live? In or near what city? I live in Columbus, Ohio, USA >2. What experience have had in growing "rare fruit" growing? And, >what do you want to grow? I am a beginner. I have three grapefruit trees, a mango tree, and several horned melon plants all of which, I have raised from seed. I have a pineapple plant that I have grown from the top. I have a Dwarf Cavendish banana plant. >3. (Optional) What question do you have that you'd like the >reader/growers to try to answer, when this letter you're going to >send is published in the next issue of Rare Fruit News Online? I do not have enough knowledge on this subject to ask reasonable questions. David ----------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 15:01:09 +0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Fruits in Thailand for November Here are some of the fruits in season in Thailand in November Name-------------Market Price----------Remarks ------------------U$/lb Tangerine---------0.23-0.35---------middle to end of season Guava---------0.23-0.29---------middle to end of season Rose Apple---------0.35-0.47----------middle of season Long gong---------0.70-1.05---------beginning to middle of season Lang Sat---------0.41-0.47---------beginning to middle of season Banana---------0.470.58---------per comb all year round Sapodilla---------0.35-0.47---------beginning of season Watermelon---------0.47-0.58---------per fruit, all year round Mangosteen----------0.47---------out of season Think of all these lovely delicious tropical fruits. Sainarong Rasananda Sainarong, I am not familiar with the Long gong nor Lang Sat. Leo ------------------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:40:44 -0800 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Re: capulin Hi Leo- From some of your subscribers and an Australian book on Tropical Fruit I have learned of Capulin: http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/capulin-cherry.ht Apparently it grows well in California, Mexico, Australia and Guatamala. Living near Miami, I wonder if Capulin would do well in So FL and if it is worth growing here. If so, which are the desireable cultivars and where can they be located? Hope thanksgiving finds you surounded by family and good food. Thanks, Russ Kaplan (Hollywood,FL) --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Nov 1997 21:47:17 +0000 From: Leo Manuel Subject: rarefruit@coollist message? Forget it! If you were one of a dozen subscribers which got a letter from rarefruit@coollist.com, forget it! It shouldn't have gone out. I was VERY briefly toying with setting up an automated list, and the message went out to the ten people whose names I was entering, without any warning to me. I immediately cancelled the project, couldn't un-send the message. - Leo - ------------------------------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Nov 1997 05:34:11 -0500 (EST) From: paullgj Subject: Banana Chat Having a little problem posting - just giving a trial. We had our first real norther of the season here in extreme South Texas - the temps. got down to 45, but the nw wind gusted to over 40 mph for three days. I have three types of AAA dwarfs growing in my yard: Dwarf Cavendish, Super Dwarf Cavendish, and Grand Nain. Here's the report on cold tolerance: Regular Dwarf Cavendish was the least affected by the cold and wind. Only the emerging new leaves were affected by wind burn. Super Dwarf Cavendish was definitely more affected by the wind. There was wind burn on older leaves. The Grand Nain was the most affected. All of its leaves suffered wind burn. I should add that I have wind-breaks and fences - none of the plants were exposed to a direct north wind. I should also add that the psuedostems of all three cultivars were unaffected - they are all still bright green. I know I could plant Raja Puri and Orinoco and not worry about anything. But I'm obsessed with having a big bunch of Chiquita type bananas growing in my yard by next summer. I am mainly going the organic route for fertilizer - lots of compost, manure, and humic acid. I'll let you know how it works out. Anyone with experience with organic vs. chemical? GPaull -------------------------------------- From: "Scott Daniels" To: "Leo Manuel" Subject: Re-Subscribe Newsletter Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:49:38 -0500 Hi Leo, I have a different computer setup that permits me to read mail digests much easier than previously. Would you please resubscribe me to your list? Thanks, Scott Daniels ------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Nov 1997 12:23:40 +0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: New Information Sought: Longans/Lychees I notice that there have been a few research papers/articles on longans in the USA. The papers, which were published in the Proceedings of the Florida State Horticulture Society Vol 94 &99, are as follows: C.W. Campbelll and S.E. Malo on 'Evaluation of the Longan as a Potential Crop for Florida' in 1981. R. Olszack on 'Current Status of Lychees and Longans in South Florida' in 1986. I would be grateful if you can advise me on how to get in touch with the authors of these papers. Sainarong Rasananda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:46:13 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Brian White's new email address Hi folks, please update your address books for my email address. For those of you who have received this twice - my apologies. Brian White. ----------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 19:25:58 -0600 From: Keith Benson Subject: New Subscriber - Doing Tissue Culture With Bananas! Leo, Please add me to the list! I am into banana plants and am currently attempting to tissue culture them. I have a half dozen varieties (not bad for wisconsin). Anyone interested can also visit my banana webpage at: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2011/Musa.html regards, Keith Benson DVM ------------------------------- From: "John Sojka" Subject: John Sojka's back with a new email address Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:20:03 +0800 Dear Leo, I am back on the Internet and I am keen to continue to recieve rare fruit online. I am now with a new server and my E mail is jsojka@fullcomp.com.au I recently purchased a Green Sapote which I think is grfted.I am keen to know if you or anyone can tell me what the fruit is like and the trees requirements as I cant find any information on it anywhere. I am also still pursuing what seems to be a fruitless search (pardon the pun) for a small quantity of seed of the CASANA - a relative of the tree tomato. If anyone has a lead on how I can track down some aseed I would appreciate it. All the best from Australia, John Sojka. -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 10:24:23 PST From: Doron Kletter Subject: 'Kensington Pride' Mango and Polyembryonic Seedlings Leo, I recall that some times ago you were looking for more information on the 'Kensington Pride' Mango. I believe it was originated in Australia circa 1875. Some forty Indian varieties were selected and planted in one location near the town of Bowen. From among these, a selection named 'Kensington Pride' (also called 'Bowen') became popular and widely planted in Australia. It is famous for bearing sweet delicious fiber-free fruit of excellent quality. However, the tree is intolerant of cool or wet conditions, and is known to be rather susceptible to bacterial spot and anthracnose. The latter two can be particularly troublesome in my location, with cooler and more humid summers. This is why I have been focusing on the more resistant cultivars. Have you seen the disease often in your previous place by the coast? How about your current (more inland) location? Would you know if it could be fully controlled with repeated spraying? You may also be interested to know the 'Kensington Pride' is polyembryonic and can be propagated from seed. That does not make sense (to me) given the Indian origin (Indian varieties are typically monoembryonic), but, none-the-less, happens to be true. Perhaps it is hybrid, I don't really know. Anyway, you might want to be looking for seed. I think it may have already been introduced to Florida, as I've seen it advertised somewhere (but can't recall where right now). Let me know if you want me to search. Alternatively, let me know if you find a good source (I might want to consider it myself). Polyembryonic mangos, mind you, are usually more adaptable to the tropics. This is why they dislike the cooler more pronounced winters here, and tend to grow less vigorous than mono's. You might be able help them out with bottom heat or by bringing them indoors while young. You may have noticed this already. A final comment regarding polyembryonic mangos: they may produce several (up to six) seedlings, only one of them being different from the parent plant. You have previously wanted to how to tell them apart. My theory is that the different one is often the most vigorous, growing from the center of the seed somewhat towards the spot where the "umbilical cord" between the stalk and the seed used to be attached to. This may be difficult to tell unless you've planted the seed such that the seedlings grew straight up, without bending or forming a 'knee'. Perhaps Moshe knows the ultimate answer. You might want to check with him. Hope you had no trouble with the latest rains, -- Doron --San Mateo, CA (Zone 9, Sunset 16) >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - December 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 9712B (What is 9712B? It's year of 1997, 12th month, and B for 2d issue of December.) I've got mangoes wanting to bloom. In fact, three have. One is Nam Doc Mai, and another is Edwards. I may have fertilized too late in the summer? We had strong winds that shredded the banana leaves, caused some bananas to lean, and knocked off lots of fruit. (Mostly guavas). Also, several trees were de-leafed. ----------- Time for another supplement or two or three? Here are three new (short) ones: (I'm sure you'll want to read these. Taken from Nov. 97 issue of Tropical Fruit News) (Getting Longans and Other Rare Fruit to ... Fruit!) Excerpt from Biological Controls for Pests, & Sundry Other Topics, Conclusion. Laymond Hardy Speaks to the RFCI, August 13, 1996 by Robert Sarnack and Donna McVicar Cannon Tropical Fruit News 31(11) 4 1997 (Doing Difficult Grafts by Unorthodox Means) Excerpt from Biological Controls for Pests, & Sundry Other Topics, Conclusion. Laymond Hardy Speaks to the RFCI, August 13, 1996 by Robert Sarnack and Donna McVicar Cannon Tropical Fruit News 31(11) 2 1997 Mulch Starves Nematodes by Sean Adams, USDA/ARS Tropical Fruit News 31(11) 14 1997 Read how red plastic mulch decimates nematodes in tomatoes. ---------------------------------- Contents: This Issue Subject: Supplements Already Sent or Available To Send Subject: Green Sapote (Pouteria viride) Subject: John Sojka's back with a new email address Subject: New Subscriber From Thailand With 50 Acres of Lychee Subject: Seeds Available For SASE: Meiwa kumquat Subject: California Cherimoya Association, Inc. Subject: Berries & Mangos Subject: I'm not very experienced with mangoes despite newsletter Subject: long-gong; lang-sart; lansium Subject: Need help in identifying a mango: See my web page, please Subject: How far north can a Cavendish banana fruit? Subject: Info. needed: Abiu and Philippine Sapodilla Subject: Re: Supplement: Lychee 1993 Subject: Dr. Christopher Menzel is a world-renowned expert on lychee Subject: Letter from Terry Campbell: Longan specialist Subject: Re: How far north can a Cavendish banana fruit? Subject: Anna apple is partially self-fruitful Subject: Supplements Subject: Name of Big Lychees Subject: Seeds Offered: Luffa, Sugar Apple, Atemoya,Rangpur Lime,etc Subject: So you think you want to buy a mango tree from Australia? Subject: Grafting Big Lychees? Subject: Re: Grafting Big Lychees? Subject: Re: BANANA TISSUE CULTURE -------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 05:06:09 -0800 From: Leo Manuel Subject: Summary of Supplements Sent or Available to Send Supplements that have already been sent to "everyone" --------------------------- (Carombola & Naranjilla) Amazonian Small Fruits with Commercial Potential CHARLES R. CLEMENT AND DANILO FERNANDES dA SILVA FILHO Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3):152-158 1994 Jujube Tree (Zizyphus jujuba Lam) P. M. LYRENE, Fruit Crops Department, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida 82611 Fruit Varieties Journal 33(3) 100-104 1979 Longan, Yield and Fruit Quality of (Dimocarpus longan Lour.) Cultivars on the Atherton Tableland of Tropical North Australia E. C. WINSTON, P. J. O FARRELL AND K. E. YOUNG [Queensland Department of Primary Industries, Walkamin Research Station, Walkamin, Queensland 4872 Australia.] Fruit Varieties Journal 47(3):153-160 1993 Lychee Cultivars, A Description of C. M. MENZEE AND D. R. SIMPSON* [*Maroochy Hort. Research Station, Queensland Department of Primary Industries, Box 5083, Sunshine Coast Mail Centre, Nambour, Queensland, 4560 Australia] [Taken From: Fruit Varieties Journal 45(1):45-56 1991] Lychee (Litchi chinensis Sonn.), Evaluation of; Cultivars on the Atherton Tableland of North Queensland E. C. WINSTON AND P. J. O'FARRELL Fruit Varieties Journal 47(2):83-91 1993 Mango Germplasm, Evaluating important Fruit Characters in ROBERT J. KNIGHT JR. Agricultural Research Service Fruit Varieties Journal 47(1):25-31 1993 Papaya Germplasm and Breeding in Hawaii RICHARD M. MANSHARDT AND FRANCIS T.-P ZEE Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3):146-152 1994 ----------------------------------------------- Supplements That Will Be Sent Only Upon Request ----------------------------------------------- Anna Apple, Self-Unfruitfulness of T. E. CROCKER, W. B. SHERMAN2 AND R. J. KNIGHT, JR.3 Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2) 65-66 1979 'Yar Mohammadi'Ņ A Seedless Cultivar of Apple From Pakistan S. MOHAMMAD HUSSAIN SHAH AND M. S. ROGHANI Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2) 67-67 1979 Blackberries and Raspberries in the Southern United States: Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow JAMES N. MOORE Fruit Varieties Journal 51(3) 148-157 1997 Blueberry Breeding for the Southern United States ARLEN D. DRAPER [Retired USDA, 604 E. Park Dr., Payson, AZ 85541] Fruit Varieties Journal 51(3):135-138 1997 Blueberry Cultivars, Highbush A. D. DRAPER [Fruit Laboratory, Agricultural Research, Science and Education Administration, U. S. Department of Agriculture, Beltsville, Maryland 20705.] Fruit Varieties Journal 33(2):48-50 1979 Cactus Pear Cultivar in Central Mexico, 'Reyna' (syn. 'Alfajayucan') is the Leading One Candelario Mondragon Jacob And Salvador Perez Gonzalez Fruit Varieties Journal 48(3):134-136 1994 Grapes for the San Francisco Bay Area C.T. Kennedy ----------------------------------- From: Sven Nehlin (USB) Subject: Green Sapote (Pouteria viride) To: jsoika@fullcomp.com.au Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 14:43:48 +0400 (GMT) From: "John Sojka" Subject: John Sojka's back with a new email address Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 22:20:03 +0800 Dear Leo, I am back on the Internet and I am keen to continue to receive rare fruit online. I am now with a new server and my E mail is jsojka@fullcomp.com.au I recently purchased a Green Sapote which I think is grfted.I am keen to know if you or anyone can tell me what the fruit is like and the trees requirements as I cant find any information on it anywhere. I am also still pursuing what seems to be a fruitless search (pardon the pun) for a small quantity of seed of the CASANA - a relative of the tree tomato. If anyone has a lead on how I can track down some aseed I would appreciate it. All the best from Australia, John Sojka. -------------------------------------- John, Green sapote (Pouteria viride) is smaller than Mamey sapote (P. sapota) and gray-green in color (=viride), about 9-10 cm large and 6-8 cm wide, and is more common in Central America than here in Venezuela, where it is a rare fruit. It is also being cultivated in California and Florida with more promising results than P. sapota. I think it is a better fruit than "Mamey sapote" but the taste is personal. You can possibly get seeds from Turrialba in Costa Rica and I could get the e-mail for you. Then you have the other Sapotaceae species: Abiu, temare (P. caimito), Egg fruit, canistel (P. campechiana) and the important Caimito, Star apple (Chrysophyllum cainito), and Nispero (Manilkara achras), which is called sapodilla in the USA. All of these are typical fruits from the tropical climate. As most Solanaceae the sap is white sticky and the fruits used to have latex but very rich like the Egg fruit which is similar to an egg, in color, shape, contexture, taste and possibly calories! I am ready to seed exchange of that one! Sven snehlin@neblina.reacciun.ve Sven Nehlin, Apartado 80390, Caracas 1080-A, Venezuela -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 01:36:41 +0700 From: Tuaytep Davi Wibunsin Subject: New Subscriber From Thailand With 50 Acres of Lychee Dear Madam and Sir, Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Tuaytep Davi Wibunsin, a half Thai half American living in Thailand. I am a law graduate with 5 years of legal practice in Bangkok. Some day, not long ago I was fed up with the legal works, making the right wrong, and making the wrong right, so I decided to quit. Fortunately, my dear parents own a piece of land in northern Thailand (Chiang Rai Province, to be exact) with the approximate size of 50 acres. Our small and messy plantation was filled with very good lycee fruits that was not well looked after so I decided to take care of it myself, not to depend on the unreliable maneger that manages to lose over 10,000 usd of our money each year from running it. In brief, I am an unexperianced agronomist with the flame in my heart to make the most out of agriculture, the carreer I am about to be doing for the rest of my life. I was introduced to this web site by sainaron@samart.co.th , an author of the internet column of the House Agriculture Magezine of Thailand. He highly wrote of you and recommended his readers to visit you. Therefore, to be humbly straight to the point, I would be greately appreciated if my membership on your website, your community, or to your newsletter receipiant list, would be granted. The climate of our plantation is close to Hawaii or even South Florida or San Diago, so I believe that we could assist each other in making the most out of our common interests. Sincerely Yours, and many thanks, Tuaytep David Wibunsin ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 20:55:04 -0800 From: Darryl Clark Subject: Seeds Available For SASE: Meiwa kumquat Hello Leo: Just a note: If anyone is interested, I have meiwa kumquat seeds available for the asking, and a SASE. Darryl Clark ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 10:56:35 -0800 From: "George F. Emerich" Organization: Emerich Gardens Subject: California Cherimoya Association, Inc. Leo: I have kept forgetting your request for information on the California Cherimoya Association, Inc. (CCA) but here it is finally. CCA is a ten year old organization of cherimoya growers, nurserymen, academics and just eaters. Our membership is approximately 100 with hopes for more. Our main purpose is to increase and disseminate knowledge of cherimoya culture. To achieve that goal, we support research by both growers and academics, sponsor meeting and tours, and publish a newsletter. As a special project, we have published a Cherimoya Handbook which covers every aspect of cherimoya lore from history & botany to post-harvest handling. An annual meeting of the membership is convened somewhere between Santa Barbara and the Mexican border at which a significant speaker is presented. The 1998 meeting will be held in Temecula (Riverside County) on March 8th with Chilean expert, Carlos Wilhelm, speaking on recent cherimoya developments in his country. Chile is among the world's largest producers and exporters of cherimoyas. Annual Dues: $30.00 Mailing Address: California Cherimoya Association, Inc. Post Office Box 4818 Saticoy, CA 93007 Telephone: (805) 647-2262 Email Contacts: George F. Emerich, President: gemerich@tfb.com ................Robert C. Brokaw, Secretary: rbrokaw@west.net ------------------------------ From: "Holzinger, Bob" Subject: Berries & Mangos Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 08:09:47 -0800 Hi Leo, Thanks for the note on the blueberries at Barry's place. Did you get some also? I found that they do best in containers with 3/4 peatmoss mixed with some type of potting soil. I then used fertilizer for acid loving plants three times a year. I have been reading some old articles in a "Tropical Fruit World" magazine from the Fairchild Tropical Garden. One interesting article about mangos cleared up some questions I and others have had and I thought you'd like to know also. The 'Terpentine' mangos used for rootstocks have been the rootstock of choice for some time, both in Florida and in Latin America. Down there they are called "mango criollo", which is the name Tony Brown gave me for the rootstock variety he got from Brokaws. They said that 'Terpentine' airlayers quite easily, so that could be why it will also root from cuttings. An article on airlayering mangos said that branches successfully airlayered will flower and fruit at the same time as it would have back on the parent tree. So, you could get a 'dwarf' mango fruiting in a container this way. There was a picture of a 'Tommy Atkins' with fruit seven months after airlayering. Now for the airlayering. The technique was successful on 'Tommy Atkins' using a 2% solution of NAA (napthaleneacetic acid) in lanolin, but was unsuccessful with 'Haden'. The authors suggested using a stronger solution, but did not do so for the article. They also said that Rootone didn't work very well at all. They claimed that airlayering is widely used in India, where they have been growing mangos for some time. The airlayered 'Tommy Atkins' plants appeared to do well when transferred to one gallon containers, but they had not followed them long enough to say how well the plants would do in the field. This was partly due to the freeze of 1989. So, it looks like an experiment is needed, but first a rather large tree of a good variety needs to be located so different concentrations of rooting hormone can be tried to see what works, since it appears that results will be dependent on the variety and the concentration of rooting hormone. Do you have a tree you'd like to experiment on? I could get the NAA for you and I already have IBA that you could try also. Something to think about. Take care, Bob --------------------------- From: "Jeff Earl" Subject: I'm not very experienced with mangoes despite newsletter Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:56:39 -0800 Leo... In the last issue there was a question about Mangoes. The response posted was not mine, even though it carried my name and email. I have to confess I'm not very experienced with mangoes. Jeff Earl --------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 13:47:25 -0800 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Re: long-gong;lang-sart;lansium Long-gong and lang-sart are very similar; they have the same scientific name, lansium domesticum corr. They are mainly grown in southern Thailand and Malaysia where the climate is hot, wet and humid. However, long-gong have been successfully grown in northern Thailand alongside lychee and longan. The Thais are very fond of the fruits. For pictures and more info, click at the website below. http://www.asiatour.com/Thailand/e-02trav/et-tr186-htm http://www.bday.net/tat/langsat.html ---------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 4 Dec 1997 21:27:23 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Dodgson Subject: Need help in identifying a mango: See my web page, please http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/2609 Hi Leo Just a quick email to ask you to help me identify a couple of mangoes I bought today. I took a couple of scans of the fruit and have them on my web page under "Fruit I grow". They have a distinctive spicy aroma, although I haven't eaten one yet. The guy at the stall said he didn't know what kind they were, but that some grower up in North Queensland got some seed from the Philippines. When I first saw them I thought they might be Nam Doc Mai. I have had a look at: http://www.tropicalfruittrees.com/m.htm It appears the long slender one down the front of the pic looks like it. Reading the descriptions of the cultivars, maybe it's a Manila type? Thanks in advance Mark Dodgson ----------------------------------------- To: zingiber@coollist.com From: harryhall-ocala@worldnet.att.net Subject: How far north can a Cavendish banana fruit? From: paullgj Date: Fri, 5 Dec 97 03:15:55 +0000 > OK, Zingibers, here's some geographical questions that I'm researching. How far north has a Dwarf Cavendish flowered and produced a ripened stalk of fruit? It has to be grown in the ground - not a greenhouse, or dug up and stored inside during the winter. However, outside winter protection would count. I'm at 26o N. - I've got a feeling it has been done much further north than this. California, Louisiana, north Florida - let me hear from you if you've had some luck. GPaull - Brownsville, Tx. ==================== Well . . . There are some plants around here that get bananas every year. The plants are grown outside in the ground, but are in very protected locations (such as next to - and on the south side of a two-story, L-shaped building, next to a pond). I haul my Cavs in for every hard freeze warning and leave them stay out for a frost. Our Airport (OCF) is 29:10 N and 82:13 W with an elevation of 76.82 feet (I'm quoting the National Geodetic Survey for that elevation figure). Harry in Ocala, Florida - USDA Zone 8/9 -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:43:36 -0500 From: Richard Cole Subject: Info. needed: Abiu and Philippine Sapodilla I thought that I would sit and read the news letter this morning with my coffee and I dont have it.... well thats why I am sending this e-mail. Sorry that I waited so long. I would also like to ask if you have any information on a fruit called Abiu. Also...I purchased a Sapodilla tree about four years ago, I was told that It was a grafted Philippine Sapodilla and that the fruit was lacking the grit that is very common with this fruit. The tree has grown to about sixteen feet and produced it's first fruit. The fruit are just wonderful! They are fairly large, about 4" oblong and pionted, thin-skined, firm smooth sweet flesh, and every one has only one seed. Is this enough information to identify the variety? Thank you VERY MUCH! Richard Cole. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun Dec 7 09:07:20 1997 Subject: Re: Supplement: Lychee 1993 From: robsto@juno.com Hi leo, Thanks again. The third Lychee information arrived today. While skimming through the information I could see indications that my friend has several trees with doubtful names. He will have quite a time sorting them out, but he has to have something to do on cold winter nights. Had a visit from a man who is growing some tropical trees in Canada. He also wants to find varieties that will fruit while he is here in Florida. I found a 5 page report from the Sarasota Fruit & Nut Society that should lead him in the right direction. On Monday I will take him to the meeting of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council, which should be a real eye-opener for him. I'm sure he will want to become a member. We have been enjoying some fruits from the back yard. Arkin and Fuang Tung carambolas are setting their third round of fruits. Several papayas are fruiting, but only one has ripened and been eaten. Earlier we had sugar apples. Now we are enjoying canistels. Our Jaboticaba is starting a third crop, and we have our first fruit forming on a jaboticaba cousin, Myrciaria vexitor. We are looking forward to something new. We have our first fruits on Sapodilla, but they won't be ripe for a while. I hope we don't get a serious cold spell. A white sapote in the front yard is flowering and should fruit in a month or two. It should be able to survive any cold weather we might have. In preparation for cold weather I will start putting smaller plants on the shelves in my greenhouse. In case of weather predictions of below 40 I will haul potted trees into the aisle of the greenhouse. By stacking them I can accomodate 100 trees in there. Those that are too large for indoor storage will be laid down like cordwood and be covered by my collection of used window draperies, which will be held together by spring type clothespins. This has been a very satisfactory method of protection, with almost zero loss. Keep up the good work, Bob ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 07 Dec 1997 10:13:19 -0800 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Dr. Christopher Menzel is a world-renowned expert on lychee For your information, Dr. Christopher Menzel is a world-renowned expert on lychee. He is Senior Principal Horticulturist at the Queensland Department Of Primary Industries in Nambour, southern Queensland, Australia. He has published many articles on lychees and longan. His e-mail address is MenzelC@prose.dpi.qld.gov.au Keep up your excellent work, but do not over-work yourself. After all, we are nearing the festive season. Sainarong Rasananda ----------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 00:53:19 -0800 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Letter from Terry Campbell: Longan specialist Dr. Chris Menzel tells me that this man, Terry Campbell, has done extensive work on longans. He works for Queensland DPI. From: "Campbell, Terry" To: Rasananda Subject: Longans Date: Mon, 8 Dec 199712:21:00 +1000 Dear Dr Rasananda I was most pleased to recieve your letter regarding cooperation with longans. I have always had fruitful relation with Thai people and have many discussions with Mrs Sing Ching Tongdee about Sulphur dioxide treatment of longan which we introduced to Australian growers in this last season. I have also visited the longan growing areas in northern Thailand to see your growing conditions and treatment facilities. I look forward to communicating with you and will send you information of mutual interest. My E mail is campbet@dpi.qld.au.gov My fax is 61 7 40 923593 My phone is 61 7 40 928518 Sincerely, Terry Campbell ------------------------------- From: Bill Thomas Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 19:55:41 EST Subject: New subscriber, N.W. Florida, looking for cold-tolerant rare fruit I am interested in growing some rare fruit trees at my home. I live in northwest Florida (Mary Esther) situated between Pensacola and Fort Walton Beach. The zone here is 8 (I think 8a). I currently have pomegranate, peach, fig, and plum trees in the back yard. The only tree that has produced so far is the fig (I only planted them this last summer). I am interested in growing some of the more cold hardy citrus such as satsuma and meyer lemon, and possibly some of the hardier tropical/subtropical such as pineapple guava. Also interested in growing some in pots. There are only about 6 days a year here where it freezes, but about every 5 years we get a hard freeze (middle teens). I would be interested in getting the back issues. Thanks, Bill Thomas -------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 10:09:02 -0500 (EST) To: zingiber@coollist.com From: Clarence Hester Subject: Re: How far north can a Cavendish banana fruit? I recall reading that Dwarf Cavendish bloom and produce fruit in the Azores, although it takes about three years. I believe I read this in William Lessard's "Complete Book of Bananas". I'll check on it. If so, I'm not sure what latitude the Azores would be, but they're relatively far north if I recall correctly. Also, it is **not** true that bananas that are overwintered or allowed to die back cannot fruit. They fruit just like a normal banana, although it may be in the second or third season. The problem is that there is generally not enough time for the fruit to develop to maturity. However, my bananas bloom reliably in North Carolina. The Brazilians do particularly well, ususally blooming in the second summer. Musa Violacea and Musa Velutina (pink velvet banana) bloom in **one** season here, and Musa Velutina is ground hardy here. I gave a friend of mine an offset from my Musa velutina in mid-June and he had a bloom by October (I admit this is unusual, but an example of what is possible). Regarding palms, obviously this does not apply to the truly tropical ones, but it is not uncommon to see windmill palms (trachycarpus fortunei) very far north, including London (Kew gardens has some outside). There are also palms on the west coast of Scotland and the Hebrides, supposedly. I haven't been to the Pacific northwest, but it wouldn't be a total surprise to find a banana that has fruited there or several types of palms given the right micro-climate. Clarence Hester ------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Dec 1997 20:50:41 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Dodgson Subject: Fruit Nurseries in Australia; See List Hi Leo I bought a copy of Louis Glowinski's new book on fruit growing in Australia. I have scanned a section of fruit nurseries in Australia and put it on my web page under "Fruit I grow". Of particular interest to yourself is the "Birdwood Nursery": they have an email address! Bye, Mark Dodgson --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 13:09:50 -0800 (PST) From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Anna apple is partially self-fruitful Leo, Anna apple is *partially* self-fruitful. But the fruit is more plentiful. larger and perhaps even better tasting in the presence of a concurrent-blooming second cultivar. I had a single tree, an Anna, that used to have small odd-shaped fruit that was certainly tasty, but not excellent, and crops were light. Then I planted a Dorsett Golden within a few feet and now I have large crops and most of the apples are very large, plump, and delicious. I still get some oblong ones of poorer quality without seeds, suggesting that it doesindeed produce fruit even without cross-pollination. Both are very heavy bloomers, and never really have a dormant period here in Carlsbad, CA. They are like a Meyer lemon in that there are almost always blossoms and fruit at various stages of development. Matthew ----------------------------------- Subject: Supplements From: Robert Stone Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 09:55:48 EST Hi Leo- Thanks again. Your fountain of information never seems to stop flowing. I have received and printed the Mango and Papaya documents. They should interest several members of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council. I still have not solved my mail problem at the other address, but am working on it. I'll let you know when it starts working again. Good growing, bob ----------------------------- From: Cucho Date: Tue, 9 Dec 1997 20:23:50 EST Subject: Name of Big Lychees I believe that the Lychee that Kym reffered to on the 11/15 newsletter is the Emperor lychee, not King, close, but a different kind of monarch. Kym I don't know where you live, but these trees are available from several sources in South Florida. Last time I saw them for sale it was at Lara Farms Nursery in Homestead. Bear in mind though, they are not cheap, last time I checked they were selling for $70.00 for small grafted trees. These trees have to be grafted in South Florida because they simply will not grow on our highly alkaline soil (crushed coral rocks to be more precise). I have one of these Emperor lychees planted on my backyard, it is doing ok although it is only about 2 feet tall. I'm not expecting fruits from it for the next 5 years or so. You see I'm a Lychee fanatic, it is one of my favorite fruits. I have 9 trees ranging from 15 feet to 2 feet and of 7 different varieties, only one of the trees has fruited thus far, it was the Brewster and the fruits were great, I ate all 20 pounds of them in two days. Mario Lozano -------------------------------------- Subject:Seeds Offered: Luffa, Sugar Apple, Atemoya,Rangpur Lime,etc From: robsto@juno.com Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 20:51:40 EST Hi Leo- I have small quantities of a few varieties of seeds I will gladly share with people who send request them by e-mail. I will e-mail them my address and they can send me a stamped self-addressed envelope. Here is the list Luffa cylindrica (aegyptica) The small fruits are edible raw or cooked, and if allowed to mature will form the well-known vegetable sponge.(Plant seeds in spring. Likes very hot weather 120 days from seed to maturity. Sugar apple Atemoya Rangpur lime Papaya Arkin carambola Pummelo I would be interested in exchanging seeds, too. Bob ----------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:25:15 +1100 From: Birdwood Nursery Subject: So you think you want to buy a mango tree from Australia? Dear Leo Many thanks for your fax and email and apologies for the delay in reply. We bare-root and export during the months of May-July only each year when plants are in their most dormant stage of growth. We are more than happy to bare-root and forward 1 only Bowen/Kensington Pride Mango. However I do believe the fixed export costs are too great, for example: FIXED EXPORT COSTS (AUSTRALIAN DOLLARS): Bare-rooting/disinfestation/etc. $ 2.50 per tree Minimum Order Charge: $ 50.00 per consignment Phytosanitary Certificate Issue: $ 130.00 per consignment Personal delivery to airport: $ 100.00 per consignment Miscellaneous AWB charges: $ 75.00 per consignment Min airfreight charge Brisbane-Calif: $ 50.00-70.00 approx. The above fixed costs are applicable regardless of the size of consignment and would seem difficult to justify for one tree of $12.00 value. Transit Insurance and Certificate of Origin would be optional and costs can be provided if required. We would would also assume that you would need to apply for an Import Permit from your quarantine authorities. As you can see, importing one tree would be an expensive exercise. Please let us know if you have any queries or if we can be of further assistance in any way. Sincerely ---------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Dec 1997 20:00:12 -0800 From: Leo Manuel To: Cucho Subject: Grafting Big Lychees? Mario, I've always heard lychees were extremely difficult - if not impossible - to graft. I wonder how they do it? Leo -- From: Mario Cucho Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 10:43:33 EST Subject: Re: Grafting Big Lychees? Leo: You are right Leo, they are very difficult to graft. It must be a well guarded secret. But the graft on these trees is a very good one sort of like a cleft graft, but very neatly done. Maybe they use a grafting machine?? I guess that that is why these tiny lychee trees are so expensive out here. In any event I've heard mixed reviews about the Emperor Lychee, some people love them and others think they are not worth all the trouble and rather stick to the ones that grow well in this area. I've had very good success growing the Brewster, Mauritius and the Har Kip (Hak Ip?). On the others the jury is still out. The only member of the Sapindacea that I have been able to graft (approach graft that is) was a Mamoncillo or Spanish Lime and it took a long time to create the union. Thanks for the good work Leo, Keep it up. Regards, Mario ------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 20:26:03 -0500 (EST) To: zingiber@coollist.com From: Keith Benson Subject: Re: BANANA TISSUE CULTURE A J Haynes wrote: > Does anyone have any experience at tissue culturing banana plants or > any other zingibers for that matter? I am trying it but the results have been thus far disappointing. I am not certain where my problem is - I think it is with the cutting of the explants as i have very little contamination. > I would love to try a bit of "home tissue culturing". I have read > various info about the basic techniques, and I know where to obtain > the equipment- but does anyone know which tissue is used for culture > in banana plants and what sterilisation method is used? I am using baby food jars with magenta B lids and use a pressure cooker for sterilizing everything. I would recommend the book "Plants from Test Tubes" to start with and then some more specific banana references (I can get those for you if you need them). I am working on a webpage about this but it will be a while before I have much to report. FWIW I got the whole setup together for <$150 Keith Also check out: http://www.onthenet.com.au/~rfossard/Culture.html http://cissus.mobot.org/IAS/Hort/Tculture/arodmicr.html http://www.agro.agri.umn.edu/plant-tc/listserv/ http://www.jmu.edu/biology/biofac/facfro/pctc.html http://www.jmu.edu/biology/biofac/facfro/cloning/cloning.html **http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/tcindex.htm** <>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - December 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< ><