========================================== Rare Fruit News Online - All Year for 1997 ========================================== Winter Damage To Rare Fruit Trees ------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:16:27 -0800 From: Edward Gribble Leo, I haven't touched base with you for a while so just want to say hello. In our "100 tear winds" last week in addition to losing several eucalyptus trees due to the wind and soggy soil, i also lost one of my standard cavendish bananas (blew right out of the ground). The rest survived but their leaves are not so pretty now!! You were sure right about the tall ones taking a beating. The papayas came through ok. We are leaving for New Zealand and Australia jan 27, returning mid-march so will give you a report on my stuff then. Congrats on your website, looks great. Someday want to know how you became a server. Ed ------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 21:38:07 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Edward Gribble Leo wrote: My Cuban Red (so-called - neither the fruit nor the leaves are red) banana blew over with a bunch of bananas. It broke off, but didn't separate, so maybe it will ripen? Some of my guava trees were stripped of leaves as well as most fruit. Cherimoas also had fruit knocked off prematurely. Some of it ripened, however. I am not a server. I just paid for my own domain, and got a website with the domain name. It isn't necessary to have your own domain, of course, to have a website. I have thought about becoming a server, but I don't think I want more complications in my life. I hope you have a fantastic time in New Zealand and Australia. I haven't been yet, but would like to go. What about email to you in the meantime? Will you have email "delivered" in New Zealand? Tell me what to do about outgoing mail until you return. Looking forward to hearing about your trip. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Daniels" Subject: Re: How did your trees survive winter of '95? Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 19:05:00 -0500 So far, we haven't any freezing weather here in central Fla. However, in '95/'96 we did have a couple of frosts that killed many trees to the ground and totally killed my only mango which was finally going to provide fruit that year. What I have learned is the difference between a frost and a freeze. On the central west coast of Florida (St. Pete/Bradenton) we very rarely get a freeze. However, on our property in Palmetto, we often experience frosts. The difference between the two is that a freeze is a cold blowing wind, but a frost occurs on a clear still night when all the heat radiates into space. Having only frosts actually works out very well as soon as I am prepared for them. You can protect against frosts, but there is nothing that can be done for a freeze. Scott Daniels ------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 10:54:44 -0500 From: "Raymond N. Gerlach" All of my plants had to be moved inside in early fall because of our Kentucky winters.Anyone have any easy solutions for red spider mites on bananas or a really bad case of mealy bug on a sago palm?I would really hate to pitch the sago but I would really hate for them to start spreading. The weather here stinks.We are awaiting freezing rain followed by 1 to 3 inches of snow.The temp is now 26 and this weekend it's falling to 5 degrees. However,I'm escaping Thursday night to the Florida Keys for a week of diving.I'm sure that I'll have a heart attack when I return. I recently found a web site "eat it com" for fruiting plants and they have a new arrival called an Akebia vine.Any one have any info on this one? Thanks, Ray ----------------- Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:57:50 -0700 (MST) From: Mike Carter My two passion fruit vines are still alive. I covered them a few times when there was a frost warning and have been keeping my fingers crossed. Can't say the same for my fish, they all died last night mysteriously. *Sigh*. Mike Carter ----------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 23:39:35 -0500 From: Oliver Patterson Subject: How did your trees survive winter of '96? Well, Leo, the coldest it has been so far *this* winter in my area (central Florida) was 30 degrees (or so I heard--I was out of town.) Surprisingly, my papayas and banana had no damage whatsoever. Perhaps I have a warm microclimate. Alternatively, it could be that papayas and bananas are able to tolerate 30 degrees. I don't know, since I have only owned tropical plants for the past 5 months or so. I am very curious to see what happens to my plants during the cold weather. I get conflicting reports about cold-hardiness all the time. A book says one thing and a person says another. I need to find out for myself, I guess. I am also very curious about "root hardiness." In other words, I would like to know which plants will come back and which ones won't. I have read that guava trees are noted for being able to come back after being frozen to the ground. I have a friend whose carambola tree was damaged by a freeze, but he says that the thing that actually killed the tree was the insect damage after the tree had been so severely "stressed." I have heard similar reports about lychee (litchi) trees. What's the best way to help a tree to recover after it has been damaged by a freeze? Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - January 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online October 15, 1998 [AKA RFN9810B] If you have asked me to send something that hasn't arrived, (within a week of asking), please send the request again. My usual scheme is to reply on the same day as receiving your mail. Sometimes the mail comes with a wrong date. (Is that set by your computer or some provider along the way?) I recently got something with a date several months ago. My email application files mail by the date on it. Also, the mail doesn't always get through. So, if it's something you want from me, keep asking until I either send it or explain that I am not going to send it. Similarly, if you don't get the newsletter, it can be from several reasons. I probably made some weird error a while back so that about forty people didn't get the newsletter, due to an alias I used in Netscape mail for that group. Other times, there's no explanation, it just doesn't go through. Please let me know so I can remedy the error, if it's my error, or in any case, just send it along again. I really appreciate it when you send me a CC or BCC when writing to other readers of RFNO. Most of the best information that has been past along has been due to the thoughtfulness of such correspondents. Thanks again! Leo Rare Fruit News Online is primarily a collection of letters from you, the readers. I usually edit each submission, often in a very minor way. It helps if your mail has a relevant SUBJECT. If you want your letter to be published, please use your *real* name someplace in the letter. It takes time to look up your name, so please sign your email. ----------------Index: What's in this issue?----------------- New Subscribers From: Larry Bergez Subject: New Subscriber, CA From: Tom Greaves Subject: New Subscriber, Dallas, TX Wants Help Finding Solarium Plants From: Caitlin Haskell Subject: New Subscriber, Anaheim, CA From: Nan Sterman Subject: New Subscriber, Southern California Readers Write From: Tom Greaves Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online: Intro, Sample, List of Supplements From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" Subject: jaboticaba & cherimoya - sources in Canada? From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Need Information - San Francisco/Napa Valley From: "Geoff Buckner" To: Subject: Historical Microclimate Record and Mangoes Near the Coast To: "Geoff Buckner" From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Re: Mangoes Near the Coast From: "Ben Poirier" Subject: Roselle fruit - Information Sought From: Geoffrey Dunn Subject: Terminator Technology, also Buddha's Hand Citron, From: "Lorinda Millar" Subject: Hi from Canberra, Australia! - What Can I Grow? From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Landscaping Software - Information Sought From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: AzCRFG October newsletter Status of Longan in Thailand; Five Plus Two Part Series From: Sainarong Rasananda --- Stoke's (Banana Plant) sale - And Various Responses ---------------- Please Help Answer Their Questions------------------- From: Larry Bergez Date: Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:43:53 EDT Subject: New Subscriber, CA I recently attended the Annual CRFG Meeting in San Diego and picked up your card. Based upon your questionnaire, here are some of the information that you asked. My name is Larry Bergez, and I live in West Hills, Ca. 91304 I'm interested in growing rarefruit and I have some fruit trees growing in a 1-1/2 acre located in the North County - Escondido. I belong to CRFG - LA Chapter. I have avocados, macademia nuts, mango, papayas, bananas, longan, atemoya, fuji apples, fuyu persimmons, jujube (LI), pomegranate, asian pears, tropical guava, plums, nectarines, apricot, peaches and large collection of citrus - pummelo (6 varieties). I would like to subscribe to your newsletter of Rare Fruit News Online and copies of earlier issues. Thank you very much and hope to hear from you very soon. Larry Bergez ------------------------------- From: Tom Greaves Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 16:24:52 -0500 Subject: New Subscriber, Dallas, TX Wants Help Finding Solarium Plants Thanks Leo. Yes I'd like to be on the rarefruit list. Here's some info about me: My name is Tom Greaves, I live near Dallas, TX. We are right on the border of zone 7 and 8. Not many fruit or vegetable crops do well here due to the intense heat of summer (we had 60+ days this year with temps over 100 F) and cold winters (usually gets down in the teens F). Some plums, apples and peaches can be grown. I have 4 varieties of plums (all were lost to a late frost), a Ranger Peach (most of the fruit was lost to a bad hail storm), Orient pear (all crop lost due to the terrible heat this year. Last year it had a bumper crop.), several pecans (too young to tell much), a Moorpark Apricot (the only apricot that has a chance. It is predicted to have a crop only once per ten years due to late frosts.). I also have walnuts and almonds planted just last year. In the vegetable garden, cantaloupes and zucchini do well. Only one variety of tomato will set fruit (Merced). I also grow about 20 kinds of hot peppers under sunscreens. But, the reason I want to join this list is that I am constructing a 25' x 12' glass solarium off my familyroom and I want to grow unusual fruit in it. Construction is scheduled to be completed in two weeks. So far I've accumulated a Meyer Lemon, a tangelo tree, a dwarf banana (don't have the variety with me right now) and will transplant about 20 pepper plants (they are actually perennials and will continue producing for 8-10 years). Already I have discovered that the solarium is too small, but will have to wait a long time before I can convince the wife to let me expand. The idea for rare fruit just came a few days ago, so now I'm frantically searching for mail order sources. I sent off to four companies today to get their catalogs. My first question for the list is for suggestions of fruits that don't take up too much room and don't get any taller than 8'. I look forward to sharing information and experiences. Tom ------------------------------- From: Caitlin Haskell Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1998 01:42:48 EDT Subject: New Subscriber, Anaheim, CA I am Caitlin Haskell in Anaheim, California. I live in an old farmhouse with my husband Robert, 4 Cats, 3 Dogs, Rabbit, Tarantula, and 2 fish tanks. I grew up in a home with a yard full of fruit and nut trees, and I just don't think a house would be a home without some. We have owned our home less than a year and we are anxious to start work on planting fruit trees. I believe that it is important to preserve "antique" varieties of fruits and vegetables, and I would love to plant some "old fashioned" standards - apples, oranges, pears, peaches, and a pomegranate. I know how we cared for our grapefruit, navel orange, apricot, walnut and pomegranate as a child, but I don't know much about what varieties will grow well here, or where to locate them. (Though I know Orange County is one of the best places to grow some fruits.) I saw the Rare Fruit growers booth at the Orange County Fair, and have wanted to learn more ever since. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for telling me about your family too. : ) Caitlin Haskell ------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:57:34 -0800 From: Nan Sterman Subject: New Subscriber, Southern California Hello Leo! Pleaase add me to your e-mail newsletter. Here's my info I am Nan Sterman, living in Olivenhain, CA (part of Encinitas) I have all kinds of stone fruit trees, guava, mango, banana, paw-paw, surinam cherries, blueberries, blackberries, avocado, citrus, etc. Thanks! Nan Sterman ---------------Readers Write---------------- From: Tom Greaves Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:17:25 -0500 Subject: Rare Fruit News Online Information Leo, thank you very much for everything you sent. I found the Webpage of Bruce Livingston to be especially helpful mostly in the links he has. When you get time, will you please email me the following 4 documents: FlowrFruit, Lychee91, Luchee93 and Mak Fruit. I'm considering joining the CRFG. What do you think about it? Tom ------------------------------- From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" Subject: jaboticaba & cherimoya - sources in Canada? Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:13:09 -0400 hello leo anyone know of a canadian source of jaboticaba or cherimoya? thank you bert dunn tottenham ontario canada ------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 23:33:26 -0700 From: "Russell D. Kaplan" Subject: Need Information - San Francisco/Napa Valley Hi Leo- Can you put me in touch with a rare fruit gardener in the San Francisco/Napa Valley area? I will be traveling there Oct 20-25, 1998, would like to know about points of interest (Eg. botanical gardening, farmer's markets, asian markets, great nurseries), and would like to see an compare notes with a enthusiast in the area (perhaps see what he is growing). I already arranged transportation and accommodations and visits to wineries. I suspect the San Francisco/Napa Vally area is close to a temperate climate. As you know, I live near Miami and grow many different tropical and subtropical fruits. I appreciate any help you can give me. Thanks,Russ Kaplan ------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 98 8:41:10 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" To: Subject: Historical Microclimate Record and Mangoes Near the Coast Matthew, I did not conduct a scientific study, however, I would concur with you that the El Nino winter in the San Diego area was average regarding temperature, if not slightly below average. The spring and summer seemed especially wet and cold. Do you have any historical microclimate records for Point Loma? If so, I would be very interested in viewing the data. Regarding an electronic conversation we had several months ago concerning mangoes performing well near the coast, I have some preliminary results that I would like to share. In early spring I planted two Manila's (15 gal), a Nam Doc Mai (15 gal), an Okrung (7.5 gal), and on your suggestion a Valencia Pride (30 gal). Each of the manila's had two flushes of growth, one in July and the next in September. Each flush added approximately 4-5 inches of new growth to each branch. Nevertheless, with the extended wet and cold weather, each of these plants acquired anthracnose damage on the first flush. These plants seem especially susceptible to this disease. The Nam Doc put out several blooms in July which set fruit. Because the plant is small (2 ft) I cut off all of the fruit. In August, it had a flush that added approximately four inches of new growth plus some more blooms that have set fruit. It has not acquired any anthracnose. The Okrung did not do much until late August. All of a sudden it sent out a flush that has added about 12 inches to each branch. No blooms or anthracnose. The Valencia Pride has done nothing but fruit. It has sent out an almost continual supply of blooms since I planted it. It finally stopped blooming in September. Because this plant is larger, I have let it self-thin itself. There are at least three generations of fruit on it with the largest being about 6 x 3 inches in diameter. It has not had any growth flushes or any signs of anthracnose. So much for the mango report. Thank you in advance for your reply regarding the climate information. Geoff Buckner Point Loma area of San Diego ------------------------------- To: "Geoff Buckner" From: mshugart@UCSD.Edu (Matthew Shugart) Subject: Re: Mangoes Near the Coast Geoff, Leo, and RFNOers: Geoff provides an interesting report on his preliminary trials of some mangoes in Point Loma. The only one of his varieties that I have is Valencia Pride. Like Geoff, I can report that mine flowers almost constantly--as long as the weather is getting into the high 60s in the day. I have seen it flower in January when nighttime temperatures were in the 40s! It won't set in such conditions, but it tries. It usually won't set till late spring. This year, due to the cool spring, it set much later. In October of '97 I was enjoying ripe mangoes. This year I have only about half a dozen fruits on the tree and they are still not even half the size of what I harvested last year at this time. I have doubts that they will ever ripen, though this recent warm spell may help. What surprises me is that Geoff is not getting growth flushes on his VP. Mine is in the midst of one right now, and has had about four this year. The tree was planted in May, 1996, from a five-gallon can. It is now about five feet tall with an irregularly shaped, approximately 3-foot, spread. I have had very little anthracnose, but I do get some. No mildew. I am thinking of adding a Manila and a Nam Doc Mai to my yard, so I am encouraged by Geoff's reports on these varieties. Matthew --------------------------- From: "Ben Poirier" Subject: Roselle fruit - Information Sought Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:47:24 -0700 Hi Leo and All, I hope someone can help me with a question regarding the "fruits " of the roselle.After three years of trying, these plants have finally flowered and fruited this year (Usually they flower later in the year and die with the cold weather before fruiting) I know that one uses the flower calyx for either a tea or jam, but just when do you harvest these calyx ?? Right after flowering, there is not much to the calyx. A few days later it is full of the seed pod (doesn't look like there is much useful to this part). Is it picked at this time and the seed pod discarded ? Or is it left to ripen and picked when the seed is mature ? Is the seed pod then discarded or used ? Is it just the base of the calyx that is used or are bracts surrounding the seed pod used too ? Does anyone have any specific recipes for this ? I would appreciate any info on this so I can give it a try this year. Ben Poirier ------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:50:52 -0700 From: Geoffrey Dunn Subject: Terminator Technology, also Buddha's Hand Citron, Dear Leo, Thanks for the RFNO with the Terminator Tech Info, I managed to have a caution printed by one of our foremost farming journals re this dastardly plan. Would you believe that thanks to RFNO, I was probably The first South African to have this knowledge to share? I have managed to Find some grafted Buddha's Hand Citron Trees, and will take delivery late in November. I will try and share this growing experience with any list members who may be interested. Likewise anyone who already has grown Buddha's Hand Citron please share your experience with me. Last but not least a note of condolence to Mr Gholstons Family and Friends. I was one of the people he assisted, and I am saddened to hear of his Passing. Regards ------------------------------- From: "Lorinda Millar" Subject: Hi from Canberra, Australia! - What Can I Grow? Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 14:03:59 +1000 Hi! My name is Lorinda Millar and I live in Canberra, Australia's capital. I'm very interested in fruit growing and so far, in my smallish backyard, I have planted apple, pear, apricot, peach, plum, nectarine and feijoa trees. I have a 'pleach' tree waiting to be planted (a plum/peach cross) and I also have put in raspberries, thornless blackberries and youngberries, boysenberries, strawberries and blueberries. I'm keen to try more unusual trees (if I don't run out of room!!!) Most of the trees were only planted about 14 months ago, and we already have small peaches growing and a couple of plums. (Can't wait to try them!) Our climate in Canberra is equivalent to about zone 8 in the US. Summers are hot and dry and we get frost most nights in the winter. I'd love to hear about some possibilities... Lorinda Millar -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Oct 98 11:29:12 PDT From: "Geoff Buckner" Subject: Landscaping Software - Information Sought Leo, I will be moving soon to another property in Point Loma. Sadly, I will be leaving behind over 50 different varieties of exotic and not so exotic fruiting shrubs and trees. The good news is I am moving to a larger piece of property, so I will have more room to start over. Can you or another subscriber suggest a good software program to help me optimize my new landscaping design? Are there any landscaping freeware or shareware programs available? Thanks. Geoff Buckner ------------------------------- From: "Richard K. Gross" Subject: AzCRFG October newsletter and Announcements Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 13:47:11 -0700 CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, INC. THE ARIZONA BRANCH Meeting the second Thursday of every month OCTOBER MEETING: Was Thursday, 7:00 pm October 8, 1998 Cooperative Extension Palo Verde Room 4341 E. Broadway Dr., Phoenix, Arizona 85040 OCTOBER PROGRAM: Dr. Fred Yerger will enlighten us on practical frost protection. Temperatures this winter will plummet to 32 and likely a couple degrees below. You can bet on it because it happens more often than not. I have never made good on an annual pledge to be prepared next year. That's why it is important to listen carefully to Fred's presentation, take notes, organize a plan of attack and begin your campaign now. There are a number of measures that can be used to effectively minimize damage on cold-tender plants. SEPTEMBER; WHAT YOU MIGHT HAVE MISSED Dr. Al Falkenstein removed the mystery from propagation by Air Layering. Although widely employed around the world by commercial operations using essentially the same basics practiced 5,000 years ago, this technique for cloning plants is snubbed by laymen (people like us) who perceive it to be difficult and complex. It ain't. Not if you proceed as follows: Select a healthy, young branch about 1/2" to 1" in girth on an actively growing mature or adult tree preferably of bearing age. The branch should have as many leaves as possible in a location with about 50% shade for optimum success. Pick a spot 12 to 30 inches from the tip by imagining what it would look like growing in a pot on its own roots. Girdle the branch with a sharp knife and remove a minimum of one-quarter inch strip of bark, clean, to bare wood. completely around the branch. Do nothing further for three or four weeks or until callus has formed on the ring of bark nearest the branch tip. If no callus forms, it is not likely to develop roots. You may want to start with more than one prospective branch. Wet the callused area and apply rooting hormone. Completely enclose the area with damp (but not wet) sphagnum moss and wrap it snugly with Saran wrap. Enclose the section with aluminum foil to deflect light and excessive heat. Check progress and moisture by periodically peeling back the foil. If dry, moisture can be added with a syringe. Two or three months may be required for good root growth. Patience is an important ingredient. After roots have grown, remove the wrappings, lop off the branch about 1" below the girdled area and pot it in good planting mix. Trim some of the foliage to match the small root system and limit water loss through leaves. Since the plant's water supply has been cut off, it should be misted or stored in a humid environment for two weeks and hardened off gradually before exposing to full sun. Misting may be done with a spray bottle containing a weak solution of fertilizer. As for the other half of the propagation program, uncooperative bark on a citrus seedling sort of did-in the show. Let's just say the demonstrator left with all eight of his ten fingers intact. There is, however, much to be learned about grafting and the best way to do it is by selecting any tree in your yard and practice all the methods by grafting that tree to itself. Do it over and over until you are skilled enough to brag. GARDEN CLUBS FAIR Saturday, October 17, 1998 We can fine-tune all the details at our meeting on October 8th. If you are a new member, the Fair is held at the Cooperative Extension. If you are a prospective member receiving this newsletter, come on out and get acquainted. We can assume the arrangements will be similar to the function held on March 14. It is an opportunity for us to have a good time, get to know each other better and earn cash to fund our objectives; promoting the cultivation of edible tropical and subtropical fruit in home landscapes. Our degree of success at the Fair will depend on how many interesting plants we have for sale and the number of prospects that connect with the attraction and join the AzCRFG. The Fair Committee [Joe Corabe, Page Greer, Janet Rogers, Allison Yerger and Dick Gross] needs assistance. You can all share in the fun. 1998 FESTIVAL OF FRUIT-SAN DIEGO The festival was well represented by Arizona members. Many of you wanted to attend but couldn't because of other commitments. The San Diego Chapter deserves a commendation for an outstanding accomplishment. That is not to say there were no glitches. The few were handled professionally. The logistics of such an undertaking makes my hair stand on end and when Glenn Young remarked that it would be held in Arizona next year I found myself frantically looking for a roll of toilet paper. The 1999 Festival will be in San Francisco. Whew! The Arizona Cornucopia looked quite professional and delicious. The display did us well. Thanks to all of you who participated; Joe Corabe, Fred Yerger, Allison Yerger, Jim and Carole Crosson, Al Falkenstein and, last but not least, I thank myself, Grick Doss. Arizona members were received by a host of nice, friendly, outgoing people skilled, many of them, in the art of growing rare fruit, all eager to share their wealth of knowledge with friends and strangers alike. My only disappointment was not seeing more of the tour sites. My wife and I visited the Quail Gardens in Encinitas and Leo Manuel's home north on Interstate 15. Leo's place took my breath away. It is a gem that a thousand superlatives penned by a master-writer might do justice. I cannot. DEMONSTRATION GARDEN Memoriam: You may remember the visit of President Glenn Young and CRFG officers Eunice Messner, George Emerich and Don Gholston in March. Obituary: Don Gholston 1927-1998 It is with deep regret that I report to you the death of Don Gholston at the age of 71, at his home in Watsonville, California on September 21st of a heart attack. Don was a loyal and hard working member of CRFG. Don was a native of San Angelo, Texas. Arrangements await the arrival of his family. Don was a long time employee of Chevron Oil Company. His kind nature, soft voice and mild manner belied his competence and strength as a person. He was a chemist and very knowledgeable researcher. He devoted many hours of work in supplying answers to persons writing to the CRFG web site with questions regarding fruiting trees. Don had responded to approximately sixteen hundred requests for such information in 1998 alone. Don served on the CRFG Board of Directors beginning in 1991 and as President from September 1994 until February 1996. He continued as a Vice President and coordinated chapter relations for Northern California. I have lost a personal friend and CRFG has lost a great friend and booster. Our kindest sympathy goes out to his family. He will be sorely missed! Glenn G. Young, President, California Rare Fruit Growers AVOCADOS Julie Frink spoke at the fruit festival on Avocado, Cultivars and Care. her data may be of interest if you have or want to grow the fruit. The many cultivars of avocado have been divided into three "horticultural" races, West Indian, Guatemalan and Mexican. Many cultivars are hybrids of the three. Mexican fruit is smallish, smooth skin, large "tight" seed with leaves and flesh that have an anise odor and taste. She went on to say, however, that Avocado leaves are "very" toxic. Further: Seeds generally do not run true but the Mexican has a better chance. Mexican is the hardiest rootstock. Avocados require good drainage. Standing water is always fatal. The tree likes full sun but exposed bark on young trees should be protected from sunburn. Paint with white latex. Adult trees are usually shaded with their own leaves. Trees may be heavily pruned for height. Pruning does not hurt the plant. Avocados are subject to severe salt burn. (A critical fact in the Salt River Valley with saline irrigation water and alkaline soil.) When planting, Julie sets the pot on level ground then builds a compost mound around it. After the mound has settled in, she removes the container and places the tree in the hole. One could plant in a raised-bed over gravel for the same effect. Avocado roots are relatively shallow. Avocado sex is unusual. Well, kinky? There are types A and B and an oddball or two that may fall somewhere in the nether. A typical A or B by itself will set enough fruit for an average family. A scion from a B may be grafted to an A or visa versa. Planted in close proximity, either is more productive. Most common varieties are distinctly an A or B. All Avocado flowers have both male and female paraphernalia. "A" flowers are receptive to pollen in the morning but don't release their pollen until the afternoon of the following day. "B" flowers are receptive to pollen in the afternoon but don't release pollen until the morning of the next day. Julie said the female pistil is a prominent feature and male parts are the little "fluffies" in the middle. DECEMBER MEETING: In addition to the election of officers and a discussion of agenda and activities in 1999, please note that the December program includes a PotLuck dinner and gift exchange. Allison proposed the idea for discussion at the next meeting. Sounds like fun to me but the decision rests with you. MEETING AGENDA FOR 1998 MONTH SUBJECT SPEAKER October 8 Frost Protection Fred Yerger November 12 Ginger Allison Yerger December 10 Pot Luck Dinner & Gift Xchange Election of Officers 1999 Goals and Objectives -------Status of Longan in Thailand; Five Plus Two Part Series--------- Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 21:57:31 +0700 From: Sainarong Rasananda Subject: Status of Longan in Thailand - 1 The point that was driven home, for me, is that the Thai Govenment is now really serious about supporting and promoting longans. In the past, for reasons I shall not bother to go into, longan activities were almost ignored by the government. Now, with the economic crisis clearly upon us, the Thai government is re-looking at the agricultural sector as our saviour. They are pushing all kinds of agriculture, particularly those which earn precious foreign exchange. It suddenly dawns on those in power that longan has been our number one fresh fruit export for many years. The importance of longan is further driven home by the disaster (there is no other word for it) of this year longan crop, which is only 5% of the previous record year, thanks to el Nino. Anyway, the table has now turned, and longan has suddenly become the darling of the Thai agricultural world. Works on longans are being pushed forward, sometimes at the expense of other crops. So, it would seem that a new era on Thai longan is dawning. However, one should never discount the inertia and inefficiencies the the bureaucracy. ------------------------------- Subject: status of longan in Thailand - 2 It became clear that there are many organizations in Thailand currently involved in the study and promotion of longan. However, in the past, there were little coordinations among these organizations. I, myself, discovered many organizations and people, involved in longan, whom I did not know or was not aware of before. Ditto, many others, I am sure. In this aspect, the meeting was an eye opener. As a result of the way the Thai bureaucracy system works, some of the previous studies were rather piecemeal or not as thorough as we would have liked. Worse, a lot of these studies ends up gathering dust on a bookshelf. Hopefully, with this new awareness, all these will be changing for the better. The improvement will not be 100%, but, nevertheless, there will be a considerable improvement. For example, to my knowledge, there has never been a longan meeting of this size, and consisting of people from all walks of life. However, one group, which was conspicuously absent, was the traders and the exporters. They were invited, but only a few attended. The various groups of people involved in longans in Thailand are as follows: 1. The universities in the North, namely, Chiangmai, Maejo and Lampang. The main works being done here are researches and helping the growers on technical problems. Most of the people are on the Net. 2. The Department of Agriculture. This is a large organization with branches all over the country. The main works are research, helping the growers, coordination with the Department of Agriculture Extension, export promotion. The important units for longans are the Chiang Rai Horticulture Research Station, and the Northern Research and Development Unit, and the Export Promotion Centre in Bangkok. 3. The Department of Agriculture Extension (this has to be a new meaning in the English language, the Yorkshiremen would not understand the meaning of the word - extension). These are the people closest to the growers. One of their tasks is to bring know-how to the growers. However, in practice, the works being done leaves a lot to be desired. 4. Other governmental ministries, such as the Min. of Public Health, the MO Industry, the MO Commerce. 5. The TISTR (I think that the full name is Thailand Institute of Science and Technology Research or something like that), which is involved in post-harvest research. 6. The exporters who work individually. 7. The traders who also work individually. 8. The growers themselves, with numerous associations, most of which are localised. Most growers, however, are small orchard owners with little education and unaffiliated to any organization. 9. The Thailand Research Fund: a relatively new organization which hands out research funds on a systematic basis. 10. The media which is giving more coverage to longans. There are probably more minor groups, but I cannot think of any at this moment.. ------------------------------- Subject: status of Longan in Thailand - 3 The China Mystery The Thai people have come to recognize that China is both a very large producer and the number one importer of longans. In 1997, almost half of the longans produced in Thailand are exported to China. Statistics shows that almost half of the longan production is consumed domestically, and the 85% of the remaining is exported to China. Most people are aware of the need to fully understand China, both production-wise and marketing-wise. Trips have been made to China, mainly the Guang Si Province. However, reports still remain incomplete, fragmentary and sometimes conflicting. In spite of the realization of the paramount importance of China, there is, as yet, no concrete plan for a complete survey of the Chinese longan situation. People are merely speculating and extrapolating from what they know or have seen. This, to me, is very worrying. ------------------------------- Subject: status of longan in Thailand - 4 The Various Cultivars The history of longans in Thailand was never recorded. Legend, which probably contains considerable amount of truth, has it that longan was brought to Bangkok just over a hundred years ago by Chinese immigrants. From there it found its way to Chiangmai in the North. Somewhere along the way, it mutated, probably into the world-famous Biew Kiew. At any rate, most Thais surmise that Biew Kiew is the ancestor of the Thai longans, because the oldest longan trees in the North are all Biew Kiew. I myself have visited the orchard which is supposed to be where it all started. This orchard, in Chiangmai, consists mainly of Biew Kiew, which are at least 80 years old. Presumably then, Biew Kiew is the Mother of the Thai longans. Nowadays, the most common cultivars in Thailand are Ee Daw (the early and light ones), See Chompoo(Pink), Ee Haew and Petch Sakorn(Diamond). Of these Ee Daw accounts for well over 85%. I shall now concentrate on Ee Daw or Daw, for short. Daw is a local word in the Northern dialect which means light. This either means early or proliferous. Either meaning describes Daw well. It flowers earlier than other cultivars, flowers more easily than other cultivars, and also flowers fairly proliferously. Why is Daw so clearly the favourite in Thailand? 1. The export market (meaning the Chinese market) wants Daw. 2. It is the best for making dried longans, which the Chinese love. 3. It is good for canning. 4. It is large. 5. The outer skin looks good. 6. Because of its fairly thick outer skin, it is fairly durable, and does not deteriorate as a result of transportation. Sulphur dioxide also does not penetrate into the aril. 7. It is easier to grow and to take care of. 8. It has less tendency towards biennial flowering. So, even though it is not the tastiest longan, it earns the growers more profits than any other cultivars. AS a matter of fact, one of the largest exporters said in the seminar: "Do not grow anything apart from the Daw with soft stem. It is well accepted by the market". Ah ha, Daw with Soft stem? I can hear you say. Well. it transpires that there has been numerous slight mutations of Daws. Most of these still retains the name Daw, probably because of that magic word Daw, or probably because the new variety is very close to the original Daw, or probably because they are not sure whether it is really a mutant or whether the change is due to different environment. The confusion over the various varieties of Daw is probably brought about by the fact that there has never been any serious academic attempt to identify these varieties. Besides, when you buy a Daw marcot, there is practically no guarantee that you are buying a genuine Daw, let alone a marcot from a good Daw tree. Anyway, there are now many varieties of Daws, such as Daw with soft stem, Daw with red stem, Daw with hard stem, Daw Sukhum, Daw Puang Tong, Daw Petch Vieng Ping, Daw Loong Kam La and so on. Many growers, let alone the general populace, are aware of these Daw varieties. They think that there is just one Daw! So, caveat emptor! To compound the confusion, most people in Bangkok, including the vendors, have never heard of Daw! If you ask a Bangkokian, what are the best longans, s/he will most likely say See Chompoo or Haew; some may say Biew Kiew. If you ask a Bangkok vendor the same question, s/he will invariably say "Kaloke (skull)", which is a name for all large-size, sweet-tasting longans. Another mystery about Daw is that it seems to thrive only in Thailand. I wonder why. I have not yet been able to find anyone who can give me a satisfactory explanation. Words flow among the Thais that about one million Daw marcots have been smuggled from Thailand into China. If this is true, and it seems to be so, the Chinese may be in for a bit of nasty surprises. ------------------------------- Subject: Status of longan in Thailand - 5 Petch Sakorn I have written in parts about Petch Sakorn before. I shall try add further information about this cultivar, and try not to repeat myself here. 1. About the name: Petch means diamond, Sakorn is short for Samut Sakorn, the province where Petch Sakorn was discovered. Some people in America call it 'Diamond' or 'diamond River'. 2. What is it? I am pretty sure that it is not Dimocarpus Longan Lour. (I am writing this from memory, so the spelling or the words may not be quite correct), which is the sub-species of practically all commercial longan cultivars in the world. I think it is Dimocarpus Longepetiolelatus Leenh (or something to that effect), which is a sub-species found in Thailand. Or it may even be a cross between the two. More works are needed here. Please refer to Choo and Ketsa 1991 for details about the various species and sub-species of longans. 3. Where can it be grown? I have a feeling that, like mango, it can be grown anywhere in Thailand. Reports have it that flowering in the cooler North (which most longans prefer) is not as proliferous as elsewhere. Fruit set does not appear to be a problem. It is very easy to grow and look after. 4. When does it flower? Here it generally flowers twice a year, although sporadic flowering may appear at other times as well. Cincturing or girdling encourages flowering to a great extent. Many use cincturing to ensure maturing of the fruit during the Chinese New Year in January or February. The major crop occurs at the same time as the other longans. However, most of the growers here discard this crop entirely as it cannot compete with the other longans. The other crop flowers in about August or September. 5. What does it taste like? As I am not good at describing unfamiliar taste, words fail me. I have already described as much as I can, which is not enough, I know. 6. Why are people growing it? It is easy to grow anywhere. In the past, the popular longans were grown almost exclusively in the North. It fetches a very very good price during the Chinese New Year. It is a novelty, because it is the first longan we know which matures in January. 7. What other uses has it? It is found to make good dried longans. However, no commercial production has been reported yet. 8. Does it has a bright future? For the Thai taste, it is a long way behind the other longans. Most Thais agree that improvements are necessary. However, they also agree that it is a good starting point. However, the Thai taste is not necessary the same as the Westerners. We Thais think poorly of Kensington Pride, R2E2 and the whole lots (these are mangoes). -------------------- Subject: Situation of Longan in Thailand The Popular Cultivars To summarize, the most-grown cultivar by far is Daw. Among the new cultivars, the most-grown is Petch Sakorn - it is still a very, very long way behind Daw. The major problems with Daw are as follows: 1. The flavour is not the best - about # 3 or 4, I guess. 2. All Daws in the North mature at about the same time, which presents us with all sorts of problems. 3. We would like to find a cultivar which matures about a month or more earlier. 4. Like most cultivars, Daw still has this tendency towards biennial bearing. The major problems with Petch Sakorn are as follows: 1. The flesh is too watery 2. It has a particular taste, which is not to the liking of the Thais. Most Thais agree that Petch Sakorn needs improvement before it becomes widely acceptable. At present, its real value is its ability to bear fruits out of season, as well as its comparative rarity. So the search is on for a new cultivar. Sainarong ------------------------------- Subject: Importance of Humidity For Longans Many people here are beginning to think that humidity is essential for both the flowering of lychees and longans and the fruit-set thereof. No sufficient research has been done on this as yet. Some growers are thinking of experimenting with overhead mist sprayers above the trees to keep both the temperature down and humidity up during an unfavourable season. I myself am leaning towards this idea. My problem is that most of my longan trees are very very high indeed!!! Which brings us to another subject in vogue here. Is it possible to keep the height of the trees low and yet generate good crops annually? Academics think that this is definitely the way to go, but a lot of work needs to be done in this area, because the growth in our climate is proliferous, to say the very least. Sainarong [Thanks, Sainarong! I make some or all of this into one longish longan supplement, with your permission and your editing. Leo] -----------Stoke's (Banana) sale - And Various Responses--------------- Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:04 -0400 (EDT) From: HESTERC@mail01.adm.duke.edu Mailing-List: list zingiber@onelist.com; contact http://www.onelist.com Subject: Stoke's (Banana) sale - And Various Responses To list members: Most of you are probably on the mailing list, but for those who aren't, Stoke's Tropicals recently sent out a flyer with an "end-of-summer" sale. There are 10 types of bananas listed, each available for $7.95. The list includes Rajapuri, Rojo (a.k.a. Zebrina), Ornata "Lavender", Mysore, Cardaba, Double (Mahoi), Kru, Super Dwarf Cavendish, Basjoo and Grand Nain. There are also several gingers, a couple of heliconias, and a few Plumerias on sale. They have a toll free number for ordering: 1-800-624-9706. Note that I am not endorsing Stoke's--in fact, I had minor problems with the last order I got from them. However, the bananas are worth a try at those prices. I also don't hold anything against them, I just want to make it clear I have no connection with them. Just thought some people out there might want to know. Clarence Hester ------------------------------- From: Lester Kallus I have had a bit of experience with Stokes. I can tell you that they've been efficient in sending plants when I wanted them. A Globba that I ordered arrived 1/2 brown. I called them and had a replacement in 3 days. It arrived green but wilted and rolled over dead. I called them again and got yet one more replacement. They gave me absolutely no trouble at all when I called for the replacement and were surprisingly pleasant given that they were sending me a second replacement. I too have no connection with them and obviously have had a bit of trouble with some of their shipments but they've been honorable and I definitely plan to use them for future purchases. Incidentally, with spring orders, there's a discount if you order through the web rather than over the phone. I don't know if that carries over to a further discount beyond the sale. Now if only I could find a space to put a couple of the products while awaiting my greenhouse to be completed... (sigh) Les -------------------------------------- From: "Raymond N. Gerlach" I too have ordered many plants from Stokes' and have had only good luck with them. They ship the banana corms with the roots still attached. Pop the corms into the ground and they start growing immediately. Lessard's old nursery is now "Going Bananas". I have had mixed luck with them. Their corms are shipped stripped of all roots and greenery. I had several start growing after approximately a month and then there was the Saba and Ele Ele which fizzled into a pair of mushy piles without even showing a sign of life. Another place that I've had great luck with is Tropiflora's Cargo Report. During the spring and summer their catalog listed a 10 pack of assorted bananas for $50 including shipping. I ordered one and the plants did wonderful. I ordered from them last year and was very satisfied too. Happy growing, Ray in Ky. zone 6a -------------------------------- From: David Matz Fellow banana enthusiasts (and whatever other tropicals are discussed here): I've been very satisfied with Stokes. The sale they are running now was mentioned earlier, and, since I actually ordered some, I thought I'd pass on that I am very satisfied with my new bananas. The five I ordered joined my other five. The one thing I can't stress too much is that they shipped fast. I was under some climate pressure. We had snow the Monday that I ordered them, so, that was the last week I was willing to get any plants shipped. I got them Friday, and, all were in good shape. My bananas are house plants, needless to say! David in Alaska, zone 1 or less! >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - January 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 02/03/97 03 For some reason, many strange symbols crop up in email. Most are of the type -20 or -92 or -93, etc. This makes editing more of a chore than one would guess. It further complicates editing when much of the text of a previous newsletter is quoted by someone. It shouldnÕt make any difference, but I found that it takes longer to get the Ō> quotesĶ only at the beginning of lines, and to have the lines relatively full length, and to make it clear where the original ideas end and the response begin. IÕd suggest, but only suggest, that you work the sense of the cited text into your response. ItÕs no biggie, but just on my mind. Leo ------------------------- [Scott responds to PatriciaÕs questions about his freeze protection system, From: "Scott Daniels" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 01/26/97 02 Date: Mon, 27 Jan 1997 08:58:26 -0500 Patricia wrote: > Hi Leo. > If you could, please relate to Scott Daniels that I would be > interested in hearing everything about his freeze protection > system. I got to see the damage this weekend. Four citrus trees > all young. The misting system worked well where it hit the > trees. Lost a couple I think. Lost all my tomatoes, green > peppers, and eggplants. They were covered, but it got really > cold here. It had to be in the teens here in Lakeland. The citrus > didnÕt get this bad last year when we hit 18 degrees! Patricia It sounds like maybe you are already using the same system I have. Here is what I have. I use microjet irrigation for all of my trees during the year. I use the big yellow stakes with one of the 270 degree spray nozzles. When the freeze hit, I changed the regular nozzle to a 45 degree spray. Then I moved the stake from the base of the tree out a foot or so and put it in the ground at an angle so the mist would shoot straight up in the air. This worked for trees < 3' tall. For the bigger trees, I also added a piece of tubing and another jet at the end, and placed it in the bough of the tree. The two jets seemed to provide good coverage for trees 8' tall. I used the red jets which put out about 15 gallons per hour. I looked at my trees yesterday and I still had some damage. We hit 24 degrees and were in the 20s for at least 8 hours. The macadamia and white sapote had considerable leaf burn, but were otherwise fine. The rose apple is dead, and the guava is severely damaged. I suspect the damage to the latter my be due to exposure to sub-freezing temperatures without any protection. By the time I got the water running that night, the temp. was alreay 26 degrees. The next night may also have been sub-freezing, but I did nothing to protect them. In the future I may have more data, but I think that where the leaves were covered in ice, they were protected for the most part, but burning is to be expected. As to where to buy microjet supplies, the good stuff comes from a wholesale irrigation supply. In Manattee county, Coast pump, TWC, and James irrigation are ones I have visited. You can buy from them as long as you spend at least $20 or so. If you buy hose though, be prepared to buy 1000'. The prices are a lot less than Home Depot. Alternatively, if you are only protecting a few trees, you can buy similar stuff at HomeDepot or one of the other home improvement centers. Good growing, Scott Daniels ---------- From: "Oliver Patterson" Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 01/26/97 02 Date: Tue, 28 Jan 1997 20:03:18 -0500 Scott, was it really 24 degrees? I would have expected colder temperatures where I live (north of Orlando), but it wasn't nearly that cold here. Perhaps the cold weather came in from the west and didn't make it all the way across the state. Apparently, the misting method of cold protection is very effective. It's easy to do, also. I would have expected (Rose Apple, and Guava) to be completely defoliated, and possibly dead. --------------------------------------------- Kenneth needs sources of information. IÕm putting his letter here for you to see and perhaps you can recommend places for him to look: Jan 29 09:47:31 1997 From: krtosu hello leo yes i am interested in growing rare fruits. i am researching berry and fruit trees. in particular, i am looking for information on apricots. my farm is located in northeastern ohio. i am keeping it organic and am finding it difficult to find reliable information. if you can be of assistance please email me at krtosu@micro-net.com thank you kenneth tarsitano ----------------------------- Thu Jan 30 21:37:35 1997 From: "Oliver Patterson" To: "Leo Manuel" Subject: My recommendations I love the newsletter, and I'm sure that many others on the list do, too. You may not realize what you have done, but you have succeeded in "bringing together" tropical fruit enthusiasts from all around the country. I can ask a question and have at least one answer in just a few days: that's great. It seems that more and more people are "posting" to the newsletter, and more people are added to the list each week. So far your project has been very successful. Sincerely, Oliver ------------- There are rarefruit growers in the San Francisco area, I believe. Can any of you help Piyush with the questions in the following letter? Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 16:50:39 -0800 From: Piyush Mehta Hi Leo, I wish I had easier access to rare-fruit growers, and I know I would've benefitted from a news group like the one you wish to get started. I think it is a good idea to exchange information and share ideas through this medium. I would certainly be a reader and maybe a contributor (if I have any information that helps). I am a complete novice in the Bay Area (close to San Francisco) who would like to grow and enjoy these so-called rare fuits. However, I must admit that I am hesitant to buy expensive fruit trees and then have the winter cold wipe them out. If you have the time, maybe you, or somebody you know, can help me with these questions: * How easy is it for a rare fruit tree to survivie the cold? In the outdoors (without a green-house) is there any way to overcome this problem? * I would like to grow guava, white sapote, pomegranates, bananas, mango (if dwarf), lychees, etc. Do you have sources for these trees? Are you aware of "home gardeners" that are able to sell trees at lower costs than nurseries? * Do you have recommendations for nurseries from where to purchase these trees? I hope I am not imposing on you. Thx, Piyush >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - February 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 There were fewer responses on sources of information on the internet than I had hoped, but if you think of some later that you believe will be helpful, please pass them along. What about telling of the publications you believe would be helpful. I belong to North American Fruit Explorers, NAFEX, and have received their publication, Pomona, for years. Subscription information at: NAFEX, Rt. 1, Box 94, Chapin, IL 62628. Dues are $12 for 4 quarterly issues. I also belong to California Rare Fruit Growers, am a life member, and have belonged almost from the beginning. I have every original issue. (The first ones were mimeogaphed.) I cannot praise CRFG too highly. The publications have been extremely useful. See their web page. Fruit Varieties Journal has been very helpful, covering trees from temporate and subtropical climate zones. It is a publication of American Pomological Society. Membership is $20 per year. Write to: Business Manager Robert M. Crassweller, 102 Tyson Building, University Park, PA 16802. New members are added every month. It would be easy to make a mistake and not get them on the mailing list. If that happens to you (you received past issues but nothing since) do let me know. That message may sound odd, since if theyÕre not on the mailing list, they wonÕt read this. However, I usually send all past issues to new members, and this issue will be a past issue someday. TheyÕll read this, etc. By-the-way, if I didnÕt send past issues to you, and you want them, please let me know. I posted a question on several newsgroups about wanting to find names of dwarfing mangos. YouÕll find the responses by two growers below. I posted via Deja News, and highly recommend that you look into that for yourself, when you want information about anything. Leo ------------------------------------------ From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Sources of information on the internet Date: Sat, 8 Feb 1997 18:13:06 -0500 Here are some places to check out, if you haven't already: http://www.asiatour.com/thailand/e-02trav/et-tr155.htm http://www.xc.org/echo/ http://agrolink.moa.my/comoditi/fruits.html http://www.ultra.net.au/%7Epns/trop/fruit.htm http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/ -- Oliver Patterson in Mount Dora, Florida (zone 9) ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Feb 1997 07:04:27 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Burkett Subject: Re:Rare Fruit News Online 02/04/97 03 Leo, The -20, -92, -93 symbols show up due to either non-standard ascii emailers (Windows applications are the usual culprit) and such things as pasting from a Windows word processing document to email. Users need to either adjust the preferences for their email programs or take more care in mailing. I personally find it really annoying to read through these meaningless symbols. And what are a few mango varieties that will fruit every year, but remain relatively compact small trees? Richard ------------------------------------------ From: Stef Van Uffel Subject: RareFruit Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 23:11:07 +0100 Hello Leo, Thanx for the fast reply. Most of you lucky people seem to live in a subtropical climat, so you don't have to worry about freezing to much. By the way, do you already have a rare-fruit newsgroup or did you abandon the idea ? Let me know ! Stef.VanUffel ------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 19:59:23 -0500 From: Bill Lady Newsgroups: sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,alt.agriculture.misc, sci.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens,alt.agriculture.fruit,aus.gardens Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? > ----------------------- Posted via Deja News --------------------------- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Leo wrote: > > What commercial mango (grafted, probably) is more dwarfing, in your > estimate? The question was asked of me by a fellow grower, on our Rare > Fruit Newsletter Online (http://rarefruit.com) and I have only a limited > knowledge for the trees I have. In my limited experience, I have found > that all seedlings seem to be far more vigorous and bigger than all > grafted trees. > Thanks! > Leo > Hi, Leo: The smallest mango tree I know of is the Julie, which I had on my farm in Central America. I planted one here in SW Florida, and a cold snap killed it, so they are not very cold resistant. Seedling mango trees may sometimes grow true to the parent stock, and may not. You never know what you will get. This is the way new mango varieties are discovered, but it takes a few years to know what you have. If you want to be sure of what you are planting, go with the grafted stock every time. Bill Lady ------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 13:22:09 -0500 From: Bill Lady To: Leo Manuel Subject: Re: Thanks for the Julie recommendation Leo Manuel wrote: > > Thanks for your reply, suggesting Julie. I've heard about it. How > is the fruit? > Is it susceptible to disease more than average? > (mildew or anthrachnos) What about fruit size and color. Hi, Leo: I'm really not an expert on mangos. I had a farm with some non-commercial mangos in Belize many years ago, and then a small farm in Honduras, with 8 or 10 grafted varieties. No commercial production. I don't believe they are resistant to anthrachnose. I recall one year in Honduras when the general crop all over the country failed due to anthracnose, including at the Pan American Agricultural School, at Zamarano, where all of my fruit trees came from. The students graft the trees and then the school sells them to the public at a very reasonable price to get them out into the country. My farm was in a small valley at 3,200 feet elevation, and practically anything would grow well there. They were relatively small, flat, and the color isn't very attractive. They are a sort of mixed green/purple/reddish combination. I don't think they would be attractive enough for retail sale. The taste and texture are good. The real advantage, I guess, is the very small size of the tree, and the quick bearing. I have eaten some very wonderful mangos from seedling trees. I recall one, in particular, which was grown in Tegucigalpa from a seed from Trujillo, Honduras, and this was outstanding. A little town near the Pacific coast of Honduras, Pespire, is famous for their mangoes, which are very small and mostly from enormous, very old trees, all of which are seedlings. Most of the people in Honduras prefer to eat them green with salt, but not me. Down there you find volunteer seedling trees scattered all around the country, and some must be 75 feet or more tall. > What mangos do you like best? I realize that our weather situation > is different, so that has to be taken into consideration. That's very hard to say. I love most of them. Perhaps the Haden and the improved Haden derivatives (such as the Davis Haden) are best, and they are very beautiful. Last year I bought a lot of mangos locally which were imported from Mexico, and froze them after cutting them up into pieces. Try it. I used ascorbic acid to preserve the color, and a light syrup, and they froze very nicely. In fact. I still have some in the freezer, and had a delicious mango cobler (like a peach cobler) a few days ago. I would love to have a mango tree in my yard here, but am afraid it gets a little too cold here in SW Florida. I guess I'll have to go back to Honduras. Best regards, Bill Lady ------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Feb 97 21:12:31 0000 From: Libby J. Goldstein Subject: Rare Fruit Hi, I've been growing citrus and bananas (the latter without any fruit as yet) for 5 or 10 years. I grow them all in containers here in Philly, zone 7A. That means that twice a year I can be heard screaming and yelling that I'm going back to growing miniature geraniums as I haul huge pots to and from the bottom of the backyard where it's sunny. (When I designed the garden, I did not make a path straight from the back door to the deck at the bottom of the garden 40/50 ft because it didn't fit my esthetic. Ah well, it does look good.) I also grow raspberries, blueberries, sour cherries and currants, but I never get any blues because the finches nibble the flower buds all winter, and the year I netted the bushes, I caught a yellow throated warbler's head in the net. I can always buy blueberries anyway. We grow figs in our community garden. They're trained as a 6' tall hedge. Here in South Philly, figs aren't all that rare, but fig hedges are. I'd love to be on a rare fruit growers list. Libby South Philadelphia zone 7A ------------------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:56:03 +1000 From: Brian White Newsgroups: sci.agriculture,alt.sustainable.agriculture,bionet.plants,alt.agriculture.misc, sci.agriculture.fruit,rec.gardens,alt.agriculture.fruit,aus.gardens To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? Hi, I am an Australian Horticulturist. I have a long-standing interest in the growing of tropical and subtropical fruit trees. Some mango trees do grow smaller than others. The main commercial variety here in Australia is known as Kensington Pride. To my palate, this variety is superior in every way to most others available here. We get Carabao mangoes, and indian mangoes here from time to time, and none can hold a candle to our mainstay variety. Its seeds are polyembryonic, of which only one embryo is usually the result of sexual reproduction. The remaining embryos are usually asexual - ie clones of the mother plant. Whether or not this variety will grow in your area is another question. With regards to size of the tree, mangoes respond well to pruning, and that is the most commonly used method for managing size in Australia. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------------ If anyone can tell Leo where to find Kensington Pride in the US, he REALLY wants to try it! ------------------------------------------ From: Ed Griffin Subject: Rare Fruit Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 15:54:15 GMT I grow >....at our home you will find such fruit as Mango, Banana, Cherimoa, >Pitanga, Rose Apple, Atemoa, Guava, Capulin Cherry, Longan, >Passion Fruit, Kiwi, Cherry-of-the-Rio-Grande, White Sapote, >Black Sapote, Citrus, Jujube, Japanese Persimmon, and a few others: oranges, tangerines, lemons, limes, grapefruit,lychee, papaya, coconuts, tamarinds, sugar apple, soursop, mamey, Passiflora edulis & quadrangularis, avocados, guavas, macademias, carambola, furry, milky brown-fruit whatsises, satin-leaf hoohoos, acaulescent black-cherry doodads (so I forget names....:^)), akee, jakfruit, and just-now trying "low"-chill pear, peach, apple, and hazelnut, pecan, chestnut, and God-knows what else.... I'm not quite sure where this will end up, so if it's a newsletter, would someone tell me: -1- in the welter of "rare" fruits available here in extreme south Florida, I've never seen a pistachio tree offered: are it's requirements not suited to subtropical climes? -2- I'm up to my ears in conflicting info: are there kiwis that can be grown with NO chilling requirements...? ---- Ed Griffin ---- USDA Zone 10b (FL)- ------------------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:26:09 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Ed Griffin Ed Griffin wrote: > -1- in the welter of "rare" fruits available here in extreme south > Florida, I've never seen a pistachio tree offered: are it's > requirements not suited to subtropical climes? > > -2- I'm up to my ears in conflicting info: are there kiwis that > can be grown with NO chilling requirements...? > > ---- Ed Griffin ----USDA Zone 10b (FL)- Ed, I'm sending your letter to other rare fruit growers for their additional information, but I think you'll find that "trying "low"-chill pear, peach, apple, and hazelnut, pecan, chestnut" will be more challenging, especially hazelnut, and chestnut, as they require more winter chill. You MIGHT get a few pears, but I had trouble, and you're much more tropical than I am. Pistacio trees require considerably more chill, as well, but you might get pecans. Kiwis: there are low chill varieties and it's important to have a male suited for the bloom period of the low chill female. As I recall, Matua (spell?) is a suitable male, and Tewi and Vincent are low-chill females, but I don't know if they're sufficiently low-chill for your more tropical climate. I hope others in the group will respond, as many of them are far more knowledgeable than I. Leo >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - February 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 At my place in San Diego, the are blooming trees of apple, peach, nectaring, plum, mango, pitanga, macadamia, and capulin, that I can think of. IÕve been eating guavas and cherimoas, and an occasional tangerine. ItÕs a great time of year-early March-when the days are noticeably getting longer. Matthew Shugart sends information about what he has growing, and his micro-climate. Don Gholston has additional pistachio and low chill kiwifruit information. Patricia A Cherundolo (Patty) passes on ideas of best-tasting mangos, pistachios, and other deciduous fruit in Florida. Ed Griffin is looking for females (fruit trees.) Harry W. Mazal is a new member and sends information about where to get the Muy Dulce papaya Willie McKemieÕs description of Muy Dulce papaya is inserted. Diego Puron, a new member, wants to buy seeds or plants of acerola (barbados cherry) for the Yucatan Peninsula. Michael Gambill, a new member, lives in Arkansas, and grows fruit in his greenhouse. Brian White gives me the name of a nursery in Australia to look for Kensington Pride mango, and praises the fruit so that I think IÕve got to get it! And, a grower in Florida finds Julie mango to be tasty but disease prone. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 11:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Shugart Leo, and readers of the newsletter: I'm in Carlsbad, northern San Diego County, CA. I'm only about a mile and a half from the ocean, but the seasonal variation is much more pronounced than at many coastal locations (like Newport Beach or Coronado, for example), thanks to my being in a low spot at the mouth of a canyon. I track high and low temps, and for the last 30 days or so, I've had an average low of around 47 and an average high of around 65 (if I recall my data corectly). We had some good chilly periods in November and December, too, so we probably got a lot more chill than last year. I would guess 400-430 hours, but chill-hour estimation is not very scientific. Anyway, now it has been warm (high 60s, up to 83 one day) for a few weeks (though still mid-40s at night) and a lot of stuff is blooming. I have a Flavor Queen pluot that has been growing in SD for about 3 years now (at my location for about one) and is in bloom! Pluots--for the uninitiated--are 75% plum and 25% apricot, dveloped by Floyd Zaiger, extremely sweet, and supposedly need 500-660 chill hours. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the blooms will result in fruit, as pluots would indeed be rare fruit for coastal San Diego County! Another pluot, Flavor Supreme appears to be about to bloom, too, while the Japanese Green Gage and Beauty plums are already in full bloom. The Roayl apricot has its flower buds red and swelling. No sign of 'waking up" yet on the Mariposa and Santa Rosa plums, though a few buds are swelling on Satsuma and on an old apricot that I believe is a Newcastle (not to be confused--as it often is--with the low-chill Early Newcastle). And, another "rare" fruit, the Mesch Mesch Amrah black apricot (Prunus dasycarpa, probably, which is a natural plum-apricot hybrid) is in the midst of an absolutely profuse bloom. It is from Libya, so I took a chance that it would not need much chill, and its early full bloom would appear to bear out that hunch. I'll report back about the fruit in later months. I've got lots of bees this spring, so pollination should not be a problem. Just, please, no heavy spring rains! And not too much of that "June gloom." (And, after months of begging for temps in the low 40s, now I'm worried that the continued low temps are going to affect the formation of the fruit embryos--and keep my mangoes from setting. But that's the subject for another musing some day...) By the way, while we get pretty good chill for a coastal spot, we do not freeze. So, I'm hoping to get some fruit on my bananas this year, too! Best, Matthew ***************************************************************** "Pay day came, and with it a beer"--Rudyard Kipling ***************************************************************** Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 18:39:30 -0500 (EST) From: DGholston@aol.com Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 Leo, In reference to the fellow in Florida asking about pistachios and low chill kiwifruit, Elmwood is another kiwifruit cultivar that seems to do well in southern California. I also have a not yet published Fruit Fact on Pistachio that I can e-meil to anyone who wants a preliminary copy. But pistachio needs more winter chill than it is likely to get in South Florida. Don Gholston -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Feb 1997 23:53:39 -0500 From: Patricia A Cherundolo Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 02/17/97 04 Hi Leo, Here's some responses to your letter. Everyone I've met here in Florida think the Carie mango is the best tasting. As for pistachios, someone in south Florida is raising them. They had them for sale, but refused to sell more because they looked like some tree that had poisonous nuts on them and didn't want to be liable for someone dying and blaming them. Don't ask. Anyway, they had nuts on their trees and grew more pistachios from them. I had a friend here in Central FL tried pistachos and felt it was too wet for them. Got pretty much nothing for his efforts. Pears, peaches, plums, etc - there are some for Florida. The lowest number of cold hours I've seen is 75 hours. You can get them at Home Depot, White Rose, or other nurseries around Florida. Also nut trees. Pecans for sure, but they apparently are alternate year bearers here. Since all those trees I mentioned do loose their leaves, they'd probably have a hard time in South FLorida. But you can never tell. Patty -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ed Griffin Subject: Rare Fruit : Imbe, Wampi, Females, Cashew?? Date: Thu, 27 Feb 1997 14:00:27 GMT Got an old shrub whose name I forgot - branches grow in whorls of 3 - very unusual, s.b. diagnostic. Anybody know if it's a wampi or imbe (no refs handy)? I have several fruits that are clearly male (including above): anyone know of nurseries that will ship guaranteed females of various fruits? In a wild foray thru a plant sale, I got a "red cashew". What will be different from any other cashew (i.e., WHAT's red?) It's presently denuded (35F nite last month). Thanks - Ed -------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 11:44:52 -0600 (CST) From: Harry W. Mazal OBE Dear friends, Willie McKemie had asked that I forward his article (see below) to your mailing list. This was not done until we had the dates fixed for the days that the Moy Dulce papayas would go on sale. These dates have now been fixed. Fully-sexed Moy Dulce 1 papayas will be available in 2 gallon cans. Full planting instructions are included with each sale. Although Moy Dulce Papayas are tropicals and will perish after a freeze, they have been engineeered to produce large quantities of fruit in a single growing season. In 1996, Will and Gretchen Ryals of New Braunfels produced 72 fruits from a single Moy Dulce female. 59 of these were harvested, of which 19 were fully ripened. The largest ripe papaya weighed 5.1 pounds, with an average weight of 4.4 pounds per ripe papaya. Forty papayas werre harvested green and used as vegetables. The average green papaya weighed 2.2 pounds. Green papayas are a favorite vegetable in the Asian community. Recipies for both green and ripe papayas will be available at both sales events. EARLY BIRD PLANT SALE When: Thursday and Friday March 20 and 21, 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM Plant Sales Information: (210) 829-5100 VIVA BOTANICA PLANT SALE* When: Saturday and Sunday April 12 and 13, 10:00 A.M. to 6:00 PM Where: San Antonio Botanical Gardens (Carriage House Gate) 555 Funston, San Antonio, TX 78209 *Viva Botanica! is the annual Family Garden Fair organized by the San Antonio Botanical Society. All proceeds derived from this event are used to beautify the gardens. Apart from plant sales, Viva Botanica! offers music, food, entertainment, children's activities, crafts, etc. Spaces for plant vendors are still available. For information, please call Libby Bishop (Chairman) or Gloria Duke Richter (Development Director) at (210) 829-5360 I would be very interested in participating in your mailing list. Thank you, and kindest regards, Harry W. Mazal ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Leo's question: What is Moy Dulce papaya? There is a papaya enthusiast/breeder in San Antonio named Moy. He has developed the variety: "Moy Dulce 1". The San Antonio Botanical Society has for several years sold 1 to 3 gallon plants in the early spring as a fund raising activity. I grew 10 of these during the 1995 season. This variety looks promising for areas south of mine or for those willing to provide some protection. My plants produced about 10lb of fruit each before they froze. I estimate that they would have produced between 50 and 100 pounds each had they had another month or so. I had 6 females and two males survive until the freeze. I planted them 10 feet apart in my orchard, interplanted with 1st year persimmons; my thinking was that they might make a good 1st year cash crop in a peach or other fruit tree orchard. Following is part of a published description of the variety. Papayas are normally perennial evergreen tropical fruit trees. Originally native to tropical America, they are now cultivated throughout the tropical and sub-tropical areas of the world. Because San Antonio is at the northern edge of the subtropics, most papayas will not ripen in ths area unless some genetic adaptations are made. Since climatic conditions cannot be changed, a hybrid has been developed that will tolerate some cool weather, but more important, one that has a short growing season. These changes allow "Moy Dulce 1" to be treated as an annual. Many varieties of papaya will grow strongly in San Antonio's hot summer, and might even set fruit. These, unfortunately, do not usually have time to mature befoe the first frost. The "Moy Dulce 1" hybrid will not only set large quantities of fruit but will, if properly cared for, allow for ripe papayas to pe picked from around the middle of September until the first major frost. In the San Antonio Botanical Gardens one plant of this fariety has set over fifty fruits in a single growing season, many of which ripened perfectly before the first frost in late November. A short-lived, fast growing woody herbvaceous tree, "Moy Dulce 1" is a semi-dwarf variety growing to 10 or 12 feet in a single season. It has straight, smooth trunk with scarring at the points where leaf stalks have fallen off or been removed. Each leaf is borne on a long, rigid leaf stem. Smaller leaves will appear in the crotch of the large stems, or at the scars where a stem has fallen off. "Moy Dulce 1" is a dioecious variety; it bears male and female flowers on separate trees, and requires at least one of each to produce. In other words, neither the female nor the male tree can produce fruit by themselves. A single male tree is sufficient for pollinating up to 24 females, but a ratio of one male to five females is preferred. Male flowers are waxy, fleshy and fragrant. They are borne on long, spectacular stalks up to 3 feet long with clusters of lovely yellow flowers. The female flower is borne on a short stalk, and is much larger than the male flower. It is creamy white with bright yellow anthers. Two smaller female flowers will often appear on either side of a larger female, and thse will also set fruit. Bees, other insects and hummingbirds are the most common pollinators. Hand pollinations is also possible, albeit tedious. The fruit of "Moy Dulce 1" has a thin delicate, leather skin covering a yellow fruit not unlike a melon. Inside the fruit is a large cavity with many small seeds. The seeds are sometimes used as a pepper substitue, and are often used to adulterate black pepper. The seeds produced by the "Moy Dulce 1" are from a hybrid plant and will not bear true if planted. This variety produces large fruits of two to four pounds, the larger ones being borne closest to the ground. As the tree grows taller and older, the papayas at the top will be smaller. Fruit is sweeter when allowed to ripen on the tree, with 75-80% of the skin showing a yellow color. Under good conditions, the tree will produce two to four ripe papayas each week. Fruit will usually be ripe five months after setting. I have only the home phone number for the Botanical Society contact. I will not post that publicly without permission. For those interested in trying the Moy Dulce: To the best of my knowledge, seed has not been distributed to other than the Botanical Society and I don't believe that the Society is willing to ship plants. The plants are very fragile and would probably not ship well. As I recall, the price of the 1995 one gallon plants was $10 or $12. The fruit from my plants was very similair to what is sold in grocery stores as "Mexican" papaya. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Diego Puron Subject: Acerola Date: Sun, 2 Mar 1997 18:51:52 -0600 Hallo: I am interested in acerola (Barbados cherry). I would like to grow in the Yucatan Peninsula. Do you know where i could get seeds or plants? Thanks for your help. Diego Puron ------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:11:17 -0600 (CST) Subject: Rare Fruit From: Michael Gambill Count me in on your group. It sounds like a great idea. I grow several fruits. I live in Greenbrier, Arkansas so the outdoor fruit are for temperate climates but I grow several kinds of fruit in my greenhouse. I also travel back and forth to work with a medical clinic in Mexico. I have planted several trees there as well. I too am a member of CRFG. Another Fruit, Michael Gambill -------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 20:20:13 +1000 From: Brian White To: Leo Manuel Subject: Kensington Hi Leo Try these people for a Kensington Pride mango. If they can't help you, email me back. BIRDWOOD NURSERY Peter & Sandra Young 71-83 Blackall Range Road Nambour 4560. Wholesale growers of fully containerised bench grown tropical/sub-tropical fruit trees and vines including exotics. QDPI accredited soil pathogen free to all states and overseas. Ph: +61 754 421 611 Fax: +61 754 421 053 Mobile: +61 18 715 994 I have found that Kensingtons do not crop so well outside of the tropics, but here in SE Queensland, the crops are of a small number of large fruit. We ate our last here last week, and it was delicious. Worth crawling over broken glass for :) Things that make mangoes crop are reduced water, or low temperature. Ethylene will also induce flowering - in the wet tropics, this can be achieved by smoking the tree - ie burning the leaves that accumulate under the tree. Also, Alar (PP333 - paclobutrazol)- a growth substance may be used to induce flowering if all else fails. Cheers Brian. ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 04 Mar 1997 15:54:57 +0000 Subject: Dwarf Mango? In a thread to a posting I made asking about dwarf mangos, there was this response: ...one variety that is somewhat "dwarfish" in its growing habits is "Julie." It doesn't do all that well in Florida, where the anthracnose is pretty hard on it. I've heard it does well in places like Jamaica, though. And, though small, the fruit is well liked. >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - March 1, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 ------------------------------ There are several of you who grow rare fruit, but you havenÕt told us much about your experiences. Would you consider a topic for discussion the following: What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. HereÕs what you will find in the current issue: 1. Trudy, in Florida. What she grows and what sheÕd like to find. 2. Richard Burkett, San Diego, asking about Carrie mango. 3. LeoÕs reply to Richard. (Please send your opinion, as well.) 4. Don Gholston ask what your experience in growing Jackfruit. 5. Ian Staples clarifies mango name: Bowan - Bowen - Kensington Pride 6. Daniel K. Duprey likes Julie mango as a dwarf variety. 7. Ian raises an important question of seedlings of polyembronic mangoes. Leo hopes everyone who knows anything about this will respond, as it is a concern of his. 8. Robert G. Barbour may be looking for our newsletter? and... 9. Mario Lozano: ŌAcerolas do not produce well from seedlings....Ķ ----------------------------------- From: Trudy Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:08:08 -0500 Subject: Rare fruit I just came across this idea and I think it's great. I live in central Florida and grow citrus, guavas, surinam cherry, loquat, bananas, pineapples and I'm looking for tropical fruit seeds. Especially miracle fruit Thanks Trudy ---------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:26:39 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Burkett (San Diego) Subject: Re:Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 Leo, I checked with Pacific Tree farms the other day, asking about mangoes. They were currently out of the tree that they suggested as a relatively compact, fiber free mango - the variety "Carrie." They also mentioned "Julie" as a possibility, but that it might have more problem with disease. Anyone know more about the Carrie variety of mango? Is this indeed the best tree for the Southern California coastal areas? The Carrie variety will be in stock again in April, they say, and I'm looking forward to having mangoes. Thanks, Richard Burkett --------------------------- Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 11:54:13 +0000 From: Leo Manuel To: Richard Burkett Carrie is great and one of the favorites in Florida. I can't think of any reason why it shouldn't be very good here, as well. Florida's humidity causes more problems than we would experience, at least for some diseases. I'm going to be looking for a Carrie in the near future, for myself. I also expect that Julie would have fewer problems in San Diego than in Florida. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:10:33 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Message-ID: <970307131029_-1674046263@emout20.mail.aol.com> Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/07/97 05 Leo, Maybe some of the participants in Rare Fruit News Online in Florida (or elsewhere) have had experience in growing and fruiting Jackfruit. If so, I would like to hear about it. I am interested in cultural details, such as fertilizing, pruning, pests and diseases, etc. I am hoping to scare up enough first hand information on the fruit to write a piece for the Fruit Gardener as part of our Fruit of the Year: Mulberry. Yeah, I know Jackfruit is a bit of a stretch, but they are in the same family. Thanks and regards. Don Gholston ---------------------------------- Date: Sun, 09 Mar 1997 08:09:16 +0000 Subject: Dwarf Mango? From: Ian Staples (Rob Logie) writes: >The main wild mango here are the bowan mango. A bowan tree will >grow huge ! (>15 Meters high and wide). ... Just in nitpicking mode. :-) For "bowan" read "Bowen" -- the town in north Queensland [closer to the central coast in fact, for those aliens reaching for their atlases] where the variety was first popularised. It's now sold mostly under the name Kensington Pride, which may have been its official name at some earlier time before we Queenslanders knew it as the Bowen mango. > ... One I have is one from Vietnam grafted onto >a bowan stock. I think it is called a "Nam-Doc" (Nam-Doc-Mai)? >(I lost the card !) These grafted mango's are a >bit nicer than the bowen mango's. Now in *very* serious mode. :^) No one could *possibly* prefer another variety to the Bowen! (Kensington Pride)-- Clean your keyboard immediately, Rob. Cheers, Ian S. -------------------------------- Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? From: Daniel K. Duprey Date: 1997/02/24 Sorry, I didn't see the original posting, but one variety that is somewhat "dwarfish" in its growing habits is "Julie." It doesn't do all that well in Florida, where the anthracnose is pretty hard on it. I've heard it does well in places like Jamaica, though. And, though small, the fruit is well liked. Daniel K. Duprey ----------------------- Subject: Re: Dwarf Mango? From: Ian Staples Date: 1997/02/19 Brian White writes: >Some mango trees do grow smaller than others. The main commercial >variety here in Australia is known as Kensington Pride. To my palate, >this variety is superior in every way to most others available here. We >get Carabao mangoes, and indian mangoes here from time to time, and none >can hold a candle to our mainstay variety. And I hope Rob Logie read this too! :-) >Its seeds are polyembryonic, of which only one embryo is usually the >result of sexual reproduction. The remaining embryos are usually >asexual - ie clones of the mother plant. The *big* question is, how do I know which is the one I don't want? Some folk say it's the biggest of the batch (which I could swallow, on the basis of hybrid vigour) and others say it's the runt. As one who can never win a raffle, and who invariably weeds out *all* the female pawpaw seedlings, this distinction is a serious matter. Cheers, Ian S. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: Mario Lozano Please forward this message to Diego Puron: I understand that he is intersted in Acerola plants or seeds. Acerolas do not produce well from seedlings, often producing small inferior fruits. They are much better propagated by air layers or hardwood cuttings under mist. I have a lot (more than 300) Acerola plants, propagated from cuttings, in small pots, ready for shipping. They are from a very good variety, that I have growing on my yard. It produces numerous crops of very large mildly tart fruit, very good for eating out of hand or for making juice. If he is interested please E- Mail me at Cucho@aol.com Best Regards, Mario Lozano ------------------------------- From: Robert G. Barbour To: leom@rarefruit.com Subject: Rare Fruit Date: Mon, 10 Mar 1997 09:10:35 -0500 (EST) I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. 2. Detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Robert G. Barbour -------------------------- From: Mario Lozano To: leom@rarefruit.com Date: Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:57:13 -0500 (EST) Please forward this message to Diego Puron: I understand that he is intersted in Acerola plants or seeds. Acerolas do not produce well from seedlings, often producing small inferior fruits. They are much better propagated by air layers or hardwood cuttings under mist. I have a lot (more than 300) Acerola plants, propagated from cuttings, in small pots, ready for shipping. They are from a very good variety, that I have growing on my yard. It produces numerous crops of very large mildly tart fruit, very good for eating out of hand or for making juice. If he is interested please E- Mail me at Cucho@aol.com Best Regards, Mario Lozano >>>>>>>>End: Rare Fruit News Online - March 15, 1997<<<<<<<<< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< >< Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07 It was exciting and rewarding to put this issue together. The number of people on the mailing list is over three dozen, and growing. It has taken a lot more time, mostly because I keep re-reading the mail! Im beginning to neglect some of my garden tasks, so Ive got to go on some sort of computer-access-restricting diet. I need to revise my web page, to show that the proposed newsletter is now a fact. I dread the prospect of getting back into HTML. If you have suggestions for this newsletter, pass them on. If you want to answer questions that are raised, send the reply to me and Ill forward it. Unless you especially want your e-mail address published, I will remove it from the newsletters. If you want to receive back issues of Rare Fruit News Online, let me know. Also, if you have e-mail size limits, let me know what they are. This seventh issue of 1997 alone is about 78! Then there was 1996.... And, above all, when questions are asked, even if someone else has provided an opinion, send your opinion. Maybe your suggestions or answers will be the same as those given by someone else. There is comfort in numbers. Like going to a doctor for a second or third or ... opinion. Maybe your response will be different. Lets hear it. So far, the group seems congenial, and I expect that it will continue to be so. -- Its interesting to see the bloom cycle of the various deciduous fruit trees. Some have fruit as large as a hens egg while others of the same type are in full bloom, with fruit set coming later. In one case, both trees cited are nectarine, but its true for some peaches, as well. The fruit set for peach, plum, apricot, and nectarine seems higher this year. Thornless blackberries are beginning to bloom....What a perfect time of year! Leo ------------------------------------------- The contents of Rare Fruit News Online 04/01/97 07: 1. Don Gholston and source for Hardy Kiwifruit Trellis 2. Richard Cline and deciduous fruit trees 3. Brian White, an introduction, and an offer for fruit information resources 4. Leo and a response to BrianÕs e-mail 5. Brian and additional information 6. Ed Gribble is home again 7. Oliver Patterson and a response to TrudyÕs request 8. Brian White and Miracle Fruit 9. LeoÕs brief response to Brian - Miracle Fruit 10. Abilio and seed information. Also JPGÕs (by request to Leo) 11. Daniel K. Duprey with questions about the newsletter 12. LeoÕs response to DanielÕs e-mail 13. Diane Chamberlain writes to Trudy and Robert Barbour 14. Bob Stone and a request to receive the newsletter 15. Bob Stone and responses to last newsletter 16. Bob Stone and information about his operation 17. Eddie munoz and questions: How to deal with water shortage? 18. LeoÕs response to Eddie, followed by additional information from Eddie 19. Paul Hagstedt with a request to receive the newsletters and a reply by Leo 20. Bob Stone and a lengthy response to items in all previous newsletters 21. Diane with additional information to Trudy 22. Bob Stone and enthusiasm for growing rare fruit and spreading the word 23. Trudy likes DianeÕs information. 24. Daniel Duprey considers a move to California - depending... 25. Leo responds to DanÕs questions. 26. What controls the Giant White Fly? A friend of mine needs to know 27. Jordi from Barcelona as a possible ŌsubscriberĶ 28. Raymond N. Gerlach is changing his e-mail address 29. Dick Gross retired in Phoenix: How do you handle seeds of black sapote? Dick discusses his seedling mango tree in Phoenix and asks to be on our mailing list. 31. David Rack becomes number forty on the mailing list of Rare Fruit Newsletter! 32. Moshe Nadler wrote in February, but I may not have included his letter earlier. Moshe is in Puerto Rico, with rare fruit credentials that are the envy of us all! He sends the name of a fellow agronomist for our list. (#41!) ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Don Gholston Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 >From Rare Fruit News 3/20/97 >I would like to find: 1. A newsgroup devoted to growing rare fruit. Your best bets at this point are: alt.agriculture.fruit or sci.agriculture.fruit >2. Some detailed information on the design of a trellis for hardy kiwifruit. >Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Our CRFG Fruit Fact on Hardy Kiwifruit that is part of the Fruit Fact section of our web site: http://www.crfg.org/ has information on such a trellis. If you haven't visited this site, you really should for all the other good stuff posted there. Don Gholston Californiia Rare Fruit Growers -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 22:36:32 -0800 From: Richard Cline Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 What deciduous fruit trees do well for you in regions where there is little winter chill? I have a few low chill cultivars of apple, peach, plum, nectarine, and apricot, but pears performed poorly for me. The same deciduous trees have done well for me. I have a Bosc pear that fruited the first two years after planting. Last year there was nothing. I'm still hopeful that it will produce 50% of the time. The fruit was large and flavorful. Asian Pears seem to bear fruit. However the varities I've encountered that grow vigorously seem to have poor flavor. Dick ---------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 19:00:21 +1000 From: Brian White Subject: Rare Fruit Leo, by the way, my personal details. I am a 31 year old Ag scientist, living in Ipswich, Queensland Australia. The climate here is subtropical. I have been interested in rare fruits for years, and there are some excellent volumes on tropical fruit available from our state Department of Primary Industries (DPI). I would be happy to scan and send a booklist, if anyone is interested. My experience stems from a rare fruit orchard I planted in 1988 on my parents small farm outside of Brisbane. We have four varieties of lychees; longans; three varieties of pomello; limes; meyer lemons (my favourite lemon); four varieties of avocado (all guatemalan types; Kensington Pride, Common, R2E2 and Florigon mangoes; three varieties of carambolas; black sapotes; white sapotes; mandarins; bananas; pecan nuts; red mombins; mulberries; ice cream beans; tamarinds; and miracle fruit. Whew! This means that at any time of the year, we can wander through a little garden of eden and munch, munch, munch. Being a trivia and information hound, I have some truly excellent books also. You might like to visit my website on http://www.ozemail.com.au/~hewlett Cheers Brian White --------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 07:39:47 +0000 To: Brian Hello, Brian. Thanks for the offer to send the information on material on tropical fruit. I'm sure the information will be of interest so the other rare fruit growers on the list, and know that I am interested. I'd also be interested in knowing the names of the varieties of lychee, longan, etc., that you have. I also have an Ice Cream Bean tree, and what a rapid grower it is. It's in my front yard, and in the 5 years since I planted it, it's grown from maybe 5 feet tall to 20 feet or so. Also, it's begun to have beans, and I have to clean up around it periodically. It is a beautiful tree, though. The Kensington Pride mango is one I'm looking for, locally, if possible. I haven't heard of the R2E2 or Florigon mangoes. What's the fruit like from the red mombin? I did visit your interesting web site. Hoping to hear more from you! Leo ---------------------------------------- From: Brian White Subject: Re: Rare Fruit Red mombin is a distant relative of the mango, and tastes fairly sour - a bit worse than an isabella grape, but with lots of mucilage and a big seed. I think they are pretty awful, but my mother loves them. No accounting for taste. R2E2 is like a mutant Kensington Pride, and is even better that that famous variety. It has almost no fibre, and the fruit tend to weigh 500g-1kg+. Excellent taste and texture. If you want a big bellyful of beautiful mango, then eat one of these. Developed by the Queensland DPI. Florigon is a US variety, suited to cooler climates. It is a later bearer, and should be a viable way of extending the mango season. Beautiful peach like flesh, but not such a prolific bearer here. I will contact the DPI and get them to send a current book list. I will scan the relevant pages and email to you as JPEG files. The Lychees we have are Kwai Mai Pink, Wai Chee, No Mai Chee, and Tai So. Wai Chee is the best performer here, and also my favourite lychee. The longan we have is possibly a seedling, and is a patchy bearer in Southern Queensland. We used to live in Cairns, North Queensland, 2000 km closer to the equator, and we had a lychee tree around 80 years old in our back yard. Every second year, we could collect around 200lb of fruit from this tree. Now that was paradise. Lychees and longans do play havoc with the digestive tract, when eaten in quantities like that, but hey, what a way to "go". I would have to say I would prefer to sit down to a few kg of lychees than an equivalent weight of prawns or lobster, any day. I forgot some fruit, when I made the list. We also have some muscat grapes and papayas - yellow and red varieties. Cheers Brian. ------------------------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 06:39:14 -0800 From: Ed Subject: Home again Hi Leo, We have now returned from our trip to New Zealand-Australia after seven weeks, which is too long for one night stands-living out of a suitcase, but was enjoyable anyway. Saw a lot of tropical plants as you can imagine, particularly in Northern Australia around Darwin and Cairns. We returned to a yard full of weeds, which will occupy our time for a while, but also a yard in bloom. Everything it seems hardly missed us at all! My bananas all have new growth after the heavy rains and wind damage in January. My papayas look a little sad, but have new growth so believe they are OK. Some completely lost all their leaves, but the trunks remain green. The nursery man says not to worry since they sometimes do this, like plumeria will do, so will see. All the citrus are going great. Thanks again for including me in your e-mail. Ed --------------------------------------------- From: Oliver Patterson Subject: Re: Rare Fruit News Online 03/20/97 06 Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:45:00 -0500 Please forward this message, Leo: Hello Trudy, There is a club in central Florida called "The Tropical Fruit Club of Central Florida" that can provide you with plenty of miracle fruit seeds, as well as many other kinds of seeds. It holds a plant raffle at the end of every meeting, which is a cheap and easy way to obtain all kinds of tropical fruit trees. The club meets the third Monday of every month at Leu Gardens, which is near Winter Park in Orlando. The meeting begins at 7 p.m. and lasts for about two hours. I encourage you to check it out. If you have any questions about the club or tropical fruit growing in central Florida, please send me some e-mail (olliep@gate.net). I live a few miles north of Orlando and I grow all of the trees you mention except the Surinam cherry (I'm eager to get one). Sincerely, Oliver Patterson -------------------------------------- 20 Mar 1997 19:49:48 +1100 (EST) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 18:51:01 +1000 From: Brian White Thank you for your last email, always interesting to read about other people's experiences with growing and eating rare fruit. On everyone's list of memorable rare fruit experience should be the "miracle fruit" (Synsepalum dulcificum)of Ghana. Is this a new one on you guys, or can we compare miracle fruit taste alteration experiences? I know a lot about this little tree, and am just about to take this years harvest of about twenty or so berries, to amaze a few new people. This stuff changes your taste perception of acid foods, to make them taste sweet. A very source substance becomes just as intensely sweet. If you have ever wanted to sip vinegar like a fine port wine, then this is the fruit to taste. Enjoy grapefruit like never before. The subtle sour taste is converted to a subtle sweet musk, which certainly makes the humble grapefruit the king of all fruits. This is a tree worth building a greenhouse for - if you are unfortunate enough not to live in the tropics or subtropics. Cheers Brian White. ------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 21:52:34 +0000 To: Brian White ... Years ago in Hawaii I got a taste of the miracle fruit, and it is appropriately named! I know it's grown in Florida, maybe in California. I haven't tried. Is it pretty slow growing? I'll be interested in what our feedback from readers is. Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: ABILIO GARCIA Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 20:36:09 +-100 Hello Leo and Hello every body I this moment the botanic subject that interesse mi is who i can arrange and buy tropical and exotic seeds and muds trees. In the last days i buy to the international seeds company this list of tropical seeds i dont know if they are good. 1705 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea - saman. 5 seeds $3.00 Sacred Japanese Cedar cryptomeria japonica. 5 seeds $2.00 1714 Baobab; Lemonade; Monkeybread Tree . 2 seeds $3.50 1774 Indian Arrowroot euonymus. 15 seeds $1.95 4503 Coffee Plant coffea arabica . 5 seeds $2.00 2203 Golden Yellow Papaya carica papaya . 10 seeds $1.95 2204 Paw Paw Tree asimina triloba . 3 seeds $2.00 2205 Mountain Papaya carica pubescens . 5 seeds $2.50 2209 Chinese Hackberry celtis sinensis . 10 seeds $2.00 2221 Macadamia Nut Tree intergrifolia. $0.95 per seed 2255 Chinese Jujube zizyphus . 5 seeds $1.95 2289 Hawiian Solo Papaya carcia . 6 seeds $1.95 2291 Waimanolo Papaya carica waimanolo . 6 seeds $1.95 2294 Horseradish Tree moringa . 5 seeds $1.95 G061 Black Pepper piper nigrum. 5 seeds $2.50 1107 Flowering Banana musa. . 5 seeds $3.00 1143 Seagrapes coccoloba uvilfera. . 5 seeds $1.95 H423 Indian Arrowroot euonymu. 15 seeds $1.95 CM220 Xi-Yang-Shen panax quinquefolia (ginseng). 10 seeds $2.50 NW26 Heavenly Bamboo nandina domestica. 10 seeds $1.50 9601 Indian Rosewood dalbergia latifolia. 5 seeds $3.00 9603 Mexican Blue Palm brahea armata. 5 seeds $3.00 9608 Sealing Wax Palm cyrtostachys lakka. 5 seeds $3.50 9611 Derris Robusta. 5 seeds $3.00 9612 Ylang Ylang Tree cananga odorata. 5 seeds $3.50 9613 Potato Tree solanum macranthum. 5 seeds $2.50 9615 Sacred Water Lily nelumbo nucifera. 3 seeds $2.50 9617 Perfume Flower Tree fagrea berteriana. 5 seeds $2.50 9619 Butterfly Tree bauhinia purpurea. 5 seeds $2.50 9637 Amazing Climbing Palm desmoncus schippii. 3 seeds $2.50 9638 Gooseberry Tree phyllanthus acidus. 5 seeds $2.50 9640 Gum Arabic acacia senegal . 3 seeds $2.50 P11 Silver Saw Palm acoelorrhaphe wrightii.10 seeds $2.25 P16 Queen Palm syagrus romanzoffiana. 10 seeds $2.25 P18 Traveller's Palm ravenalamad agascarie. 5 seeds $2.25 P20 Poneytail Palm beaucarnia strict. 5 seeds $2.25 P24 Butterfly Palm (Golden Cane Palm) areca lutescens. 10 seeds $2.25 P30 Parlor Palm neantha bella. 10 seeds $2.50 P41 Sabal Palmetto sabal palmetto. 10 seeds $2.25 P49 King Palm (Alexander Palm ) archontophoenix alexandrae. 10 seeds $2.25 P52 Jelly Palm butea capitata. 2 seeds $2.50 P60 Mexican Cycad dioon edule. 3 seeds $3.50 P63 Panama Hat Palm carludovica palmata. 5 seeds $2.50 P75 Mexican Fan Palm (Sky Duster) washington robusta. 10 seeds $2. 2911 Golden Rain Tree koelreuteria. 8 seeds $2.75 2914 African Tulip Tree spathodea. 20 seeds $1.95 2942 Elephant Ear Acacia acacia dunnii. 3 seeds $1.95 2970 South American Mahogany swietenia. 10 seeds $1.90 2980 Flame of the Forest delonix regia. 10 seeds $2.50 SO154 Cashew Nut anacardium. 3 seeds $2.50 SO173 Amazon Grape Tree myrciara. 2 seeds $2.75 SO350 Indian Banyan Tree ficus benghalensis. 8 seeds $2.50 SO488 Red Sandal Wood Tree adenanthera. 5 seeds $2.50 SO489 Candlenut Tree aleurites. 2 seeds $2.00 SO545 Gourd Tree cujete. 5 seeds $2.50 7821 Camphor Tree cinnamomum camphor. 8 seeds $1.95 VH562 Giant Pink Banana5 seeds $1.95 4598 Monkey Pod Rain Tree samanea saman. 5 seeds $3.00 I dont have talk because i dont have nothing important to speak but i follow atention yours mails. A nother hobby of me is to colect 19 century hander books manuals of tropical agriculture and exotic plants.Spanish,Portuguese,Brasilien,French,English. Is this mi botanical knowledge. I you want to know or see someting tell me. About Jack fruit see this: (Leos note: Several interesting graphic files attached. Ill forward them to anyone who emails a request to receive them.) -------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 21:06:37 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I was pleasantly surprised to receive Rare Fruit News Online. I'm a little curious about it. Was it a one-shot deal? Did you pull the postings from one source or several (I don't remember where I posted my own contribution)? If I want to reply to one of the postings in the newsletter, do I send my reply to you? Or to where? Are you doing this on your own? And is it very labor-intensive? Yours in year-around aestivation, Dan Duprey --------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 09:30:55 +0000 To: Daniel K. Duprey Dan, I got your name from a posting on mangoes, as I recall. It was a response to a question I had raised, probably, about what is known about dwarf mangoes. Maybe it was a response to a reply, discussing Bowen mangoes. I'm not sure, but I took a chance. It doesn't take any more work to send to more people. (There are almost 3 dozen names on the list so far. I started it last fall, believing there was a need. It will continue until you ask me to stop. If you reply to a posting, I'd like for you to send it to me. I'll immediately forward it, and put a copy into the folder of items for the next newsletter. There have been two letters sent per month this year. If you prefer that the reply NOT go out to everyone, I'll respect your wishes. I will send you a copy of the past issues, if you like. It would be easy to attach it to an e-mail, or copy into the e-mail. I'm doing it on my own, and it's not labor-intensive at all. So far, everyone seems to be friendly, with no flaming mail. Let me know if you want back issues. Leo -------------------------------- Sun, 23 Mar 1997 07:27:09 -0500 From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Hi Leo, For Trudy, Do you know about the tropical fruit clubs in Florida? There are lots of them, they have regular meetings with rare fruit enthusiasts galore, have regular sales, most do newsletters, have members willing to share seeds, and bring you to a new level of rare fruit mania. There are quite a few, so if you let me know where in central Florida you live, I can let you know the closest one. For Robert Barbour, I don't know of any newsgroups solely for rare fruit, but there are 2 on fruit, including rare. They are: alt.agriculture.fruit & sci.agriculture.fruit There is also bionet.biology.tropical which is ALL biology of the tropics, but when there is info on rare fruit...... it's wonderful. Diane -------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 11:13:59 PST From: Bob Stone Good morning- Diane Chamberlain suggested I write to you about your newsletter. We are both members of the Manatee Rare Fruit Council, in Manatee county, Florida. I would appreciate being added to your mail list. Bob Stone -------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 23:21:06 PST From: Bob Stone Thank you for the prompt reply. I would like the back issues, but I am fairly new at this e-mail stuff. I don't know if I can receive attached files with Juno, so for the time being it would be best to send them in the body of the E-mail text. For Trudy. My miracle fruit is just showing flower buds. Seeds will be available when the fruit ripens. Because I don't know when to quit I have many more trees than I can set out in the ground, therefor, I have most of them in containers. I feel that I get fewer and smaller fruits as a result, but that is better than no fruit at all. For Don Gholston: The California Rare Fruit Growers society is on line at http://www.crfg.org - They have available information sheets called Fruit Facts, which you can access and print. The one on Jackfruit is two pages long and has bare bones information. More later, Bob --------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 16:12:20 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- Thank you for all of the back issues. I have printed them out so I can read them and perhaps make comments. I have been growing tropical fruits trees for nine or ten years. Most are in containers, since our lot is only 75 x 150 feet.. i have a greenhouse and a potting shed. At the beginning of winter I move as many one and two gallon pots as possible into the greenhouse on double decker shelves. When dangerously cold weather threatens I move as many 3,7,and 10 gallon plants as possible into the aisle. By stacking them I can store 100 pots there. The larger trees are laid down (stacked) on the ground, then covered with used window draperies rescued from a drapery shop dumpster. The drapes are clipped together at the seams with spring type clothespins. So far there has been a minimum of cold damage using this system. One thing I have learned is not to discard any tree that seems to be dead until at least three months after the freeze. It often takes that long for them to start sprouting new growth. Here comes the commercial; The Manatee Rare Fruit Council will have its annual tree sale on Sunday, May 18th, fom ten to four. It will be held at the Manatee Civic Center on Route 41 in Palmetto. Participating nurseries will bring over 3,000 trees, offering a wide selection. If someone needs more specific directions I can post them here on request. Bob Stone ----------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 From: Eddie munoz How far inland do you live? How often to you get winter frost/freezes? I live in Rainbow, Ca. on 20 acres. I wish to grow rare fruit as well as not so rare fruit but I am on water wells that are tied very, very much to the amount of rainfall we get in our area. (I have had to let trees die when we've had to import water via tanker trucks) Any info on how to get water in from a reliable source? Eddie munoz ----------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 21:37 PST To: Eddie Munos I live in Rancho Penasquitos (in the city of San Diego), maybe 7-8 miles inland. This particular location hasn't had frost during the 4 1/2 years I've lived here. A few blocks away, there will be, however. I can't think of anything to help in getting additional water. Twenty acres is a lot of land to water! My lot is about one-fourth of one acre. If you generate any gray water that can be collected and used, that could keep trees alive until more water is available. You have to be careful about what detergents, etc., go into the water, however. There are booklets available, I believe, dealing with the subject. Some trees can survive but lose their fruit in long dry spells. I'm thinking of sapote (white), in particular. Mulch, of course, can help, but you probably have done as much as possible in that vein. There is, or was, a mushroom growing operation someplace in the area that has a mushroom compost that is cheap or maybe even free. Rain collected from roof downspouts can be stored, but it takes a lot of storage space and doesn't last long. I'll circulate your letter to see if anyone has other ideas. It must be very frustrating! Leo ---------------------------------- From: Eddie munoz Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:37:14 -0800 Thanks for any help. I've tried the water district but it will cost an arm and a leg to get me connected to them and of course I have to pay the whole thing. It is frustrating since we use to live on 2/3 of an acre in Pico Rivera which is a suburb of Los Angeles and of course I never had to worry about water. I had success at times with papaya, mango, guavas, and banana as well as normal stuff like citrus and avocado. We use to get a lot of frost in my area as low as 25 degrees. Eddie munoz -------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 04:38:32 +0100 From: PAUL Hagstedt I am a lychee,annana, mamey sapote grower in South Florida.and a member of Tropical Fruit Growers of South Florida, visit my new site at lychee.com / I would be interested to be a part of your news group. Paul Hagstedt Thank you --------------------------------- To: Paul Hagstedt Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 09:38:43 +0000 From: Leo Manuel I wrote you once about ordering a lychee tree (Brewster) but haven't taken any further action, because I don't know how trees survive coming in with the severe quarantine check in California. Even if the tree is in the best of condition, if it is held for very long, it might not make it when planted. I will send you back issues of the newsletter, if you request it. Horticordially, Leo ----------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Stone Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 14:10:19 PST Hi- I have finished reading all of the back material, and have some information on a few topics. Scott Marshall asked about Cherimoya. They grow at a higher altitude than the Sugar apple, and require some winter chill. That is why the Israelis hybridized them with the sugar apple to produce the Atemoya. I have had Cherimoyas old enough to flower, but they have not done so. I think it's too warm here in Bradenton, Florida, Zone 9. For Ed Griffin, about low chill Kiwis. If you are in Zone ten you may be near Ft.Myers. Contact the Caloosa Rare Fruit Exchange. They meet at the Extension Service building on Palm Beach Boulevard, route 80, west of I-75, exit 25. They should have the information you want, and you would benefit by joining. Roy Grear's nursery (35927 Chancey Rd. - Zephyrhills, FL 33541) has several low chill varieties of Kiwi, and may be able to supply you with what you need. I think your nameless fruit tree is an Imbe. I just checked mine, and the branches do grow in groups of three. The leaves are dark green and leathery in texture. They require male and female plants to produce heavily, but my female produces a few fruits by itself. What we need to do is to swap grafts. How are you at grafting? If these trees can be airlayered we could clone them and swap them. To Don Gholston - If you want the latest news on Jakfruit contact Fairchild Tropical Garden at 11935 Old Cutler Rd, Miami, FL, 35156 Phone 305 665-2844 Fax 305 665-8032. They have an ongoing research project on Jakfruit. They also are heavily into a study of Mango varieties, and have imported many new varieties. I have four small Jakfruit trees in containers. One has a fruit (male) about the size and shape of two joints of my little finger. There had been a smaller, round fruit, but it has fallen off. I suspect that was a female. To Robert Barbour - I can't locate the drawing, but the instructions said that Kiwis are such heavy bearers that the trellis must be very strong. They recommended 4x4 supports and 2x4 stringers. If anyone wants discriptive literature on tropical fruits, ask for Fruit Crops Fact Sheets at your friendly neighborhood Extension Service. Here's a list of the ones I have received from them ; Atemoya, Avocado, Avocado Propagation, Bananas, Black Sapote, Blueberry, Canistel, Carambola, Coconut, Eugenia Species, Fig, Guava, Jaboticaba, Chinese Jujube, Longan, Loquat, Lychee, Macadamia, Mamey Sapote, Mango, Mango Propagation, Papaya, Passionfruit, Persimmon, Pineapple, Sapodilla, Seagrape, Sugar Apple, Tamarind. Dooryard Fruits, Growing Fruit Crops in containers. Everyone should become familiar with the many rare fruit clubs. The two main ones are RARE FRUIT COUNCIL, INTERNATIONAL p o box 561914, MIAMI, fl 33256, AND CALIFORNIA RARE FRUIT GROWERS, - THE FULLERTON AUDITORIUM, CALIFORNIA STATE UNIVERSITY, FULLERTON, CA 92634. They both have branches in their respective states. Contact the parent organization for the address of the chapter closest to you. If growing tropical fruits is new to you these clubs will be your best sources of information. Both parent clubs have seeds available to members. A number of my trees are seedlings from them, and many have fruited. Bob Stone ----------------------------------------- From: MRS DIANE L CHAMBERLAIN Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 20:19:31, -0500 For Trudy, The Tampa club's address is 313 Pruett Road, Seffner, FL 33584. The meeting place is north of I-4 before you get to 301, so Lakeland wouldn't be too far. I am a member of the Manatee club, and we meet in Palmetto, just north of Bradenton. If you can't attend any meetings, but just want a newsletter, the best is Miami's. I am the editor of the Manatee club's newsletter, and see most of the newsletters from around the state. Most of the newsletters are kind of newsy about what the individual clubs are doing. The Miami news is a magazine and most local clubs are chapters of the Miami club. The only drawbacks are that its focus is tropical and it costs $35 a year to be a member (and get their magazine) I can find out if the Tampa club has any Lakeland members, they probably do. If you are not going to focus on the sub-tropicals, but try mostly to do trees that can take the cold, then the more northerly clubs (like Tampa) have more info about that. Our Manatee club does a lot of talking about frost protection! One of the BEST magazines for a good price is the CRFG news. Even though it is California the information is great, it is pretty, and they have a great seed swap. Leo can brag about that publication! (Leo: ...and often does!) Let me know if you need more info. Diane --------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 08:30:30 PST From: Bob Stone Hi- I'm so enthusiastic about tropical fruits that I take every opportunity to "spread the gospel". There are so many sources of information from which people can benefit that those of us who know some of the sources should make the information available. Keep up the good work. Bob ------------------------------------ From: Trudy Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 19:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Florida Clubs Thank you so much Diane. Seffner isn't that far. I may not get to every meeting if it's in the evening but at least I could make some of them. I'll check into it. Trudy ----------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 1997 20:41:49 -0500 (EST) From: Daniel K. Duprey I think what you're doing is great. And I'd be most grateful if you sent me a copy of the previous issues. By chance, are you in California? Some day I may get to the point where I can't handle Florida's humidity any more, but I never want to live where mangos don't grow....Are there parts of California where they grow well? --Dan Duprey -------------------------------- From: Leo Manuel To: Dan Duprey Yes, I live in San Diego, California, and there are places where mangos grow, but you have to learn about the micro-climates of the neighborhoods, and that isn't always easy. It's surprising that the rim of a coastal canyon, one which goes from inland to the coast, will drain frigid inland cold toward the coast, causing frost along the way. I lived in such an area before moving here. It was maybe 2 miles from the coast, near La Jolla, but winter cold could be as severe as 20 miles inland. Now, I'm about 8 miles from the coast, on a hill, and while some nearby areas get frost, I haven't in the 5 years I've been here. There are other locations with larger contiguous frost-free areas than mine. If you experience difficulties in receiving the large attachments, I will break them up and try again. Leo -------------------------------------- A friend, Don L Hickox wrote: Leo, I have a question concerning garden pests. The giant white fly is all over our yard. I've tried spraying commercial oil and soap mixtures without success. I've heard that there is a wasp that will fight these pests. I just purchased ladybugs and a beetle which are supposed to help. I also clip and dispose of the infected areas. Any tips? Take care, Don -- Don, Someone I talked to, who MAY know something about pest control, says there are several products - he mentioned three, that would help. Tempo, Pyrodon, and Maverick. He says that whichever you use should be mixed with a light horticultural oil, in the ratio of two tablespoons per gallon of spray. (I wish I could remember his name. He sprays grounds for weed and pest control for his job.) I hope you let me know what you learn. Our fruit newsgroup would like the information. This Mr. Moon may be able to buy products that we can't, because he has a commercial license. It's possible some of them aren't available for home gardeners. See you soon. Leo ----------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Mar 1997 14:16:10 -0700 From: Glenn Andrews Subject: hi there, Do you have any idea what would cause fruit drop on capulin cherry? My tree in the san fernando valley is flowering heavily, but after forming small fruits, most dry out and fall off before maturing. A friend in Santa Monica is having the same problem, even though he is in a much better climate area